pdga members:

meet henri. european pdga number 530. henri spent the afternoon in a dowdy mood.

unsure whether his weekend plans would be ruined completely he suffered admirably through the terribly rough treatment of the masseuse�s hands. he was grateful, surely, to be seen so swiftly and knew that in the long run, the tears that welled in his eyes would be beneficial. the doctor had recommended this particular masseuse. of course he needn�t worry over the cost or insurance, henri lived in europe. and with three weeks upcoming in this, his most recent vacation, he would make that disc golf holiday after all.

that night at the discoth�que was still a blur. what fun was had by henri and his chums! the pump, pump of the techno beat kept him sashaying across the dance floor to all hours of the night. but with a few too many cosmopolitans and mollies frolicking in his veins his brand new leopard-skin tennis shoes slipped on some whiskey callously spilled by a rowdy group of uncouth americans. the pain had occurred instantly and he knew that he�d have a terrible knot to deal with by morning. his mates valiantly tried to keep his spirits high, but henri knew he should call it a night. besides the pain, henri�s most cherished chum, jules, was in a sour mood. it seems he�d had his eyes on those very same shoes and seemed to have recalled mentioning as such to henri. indeed!

alas. it was his last work day before the planned holiday but henri was simply in no shape for the office. he canceled his appointments and cleared most of his schedule to focus solely on that confounded knot. he sat gingerly on the train hoping a sudden bump wouldn�t send his knot into spasm and himself across the soiled floor. the train ride, subsidized by the government, hadn�t cost a thing and he used the spare euros to purchase a yummy italian roast which he held on his delicately crossed knee--this particular position affording him a modicum of relief from the knot. meanwhile, his new, fashionable slacks afforded him similar protection from the heat emanating from the recycled paper cup.

he and his �lost boys,� as he often referred to his little group of mates, had planned to flit across the continent playing rounds and rounds of disc golf in the �amateur enthusiast� division. or some such grouping. what fun! for the paltry sum of $20 american, he and the lost boys stumbled upon a seemingly endless supply of enjoyment and potential adventure.

of course this too was subsidized, and henri only vaguely recalled the words of the rakishly handsome pdga representative (from georgia or was it canada, he couldn�t really be sure).

�the american pdga members are only too happy to pay,� he announced and, �it will cost the pdga approximately $10 american for each of you, but for the pleasure of your company it is well worth it�� and �culturally,� and �whilst,� and �haberdashery,� were mentioned.

mentioned yes, and now recalled but for the life of henri he couldn�t put it all together. all he knew was that those americans, despite what all the newspapers were reporting, were quite generous to be supporting his and his lost boy�s frivolity.

(stay tuned for hank, henri�s american benefactor)

<font color="blue"> swearing deleted </font>

thanks brian. care to help create a better, more refined, thus totally snobby tournaments poll above? it's the least you can do after shaming me so twicely.

Hey Partner don't hurt your throwing hand trying to fix that darn tractor. :D

hey matt. played hickory recently and hit tyler on sunday with the family. will be checking out your new course this weekend hopefully. did you shake down those brits you met? apparently they owe the pdga membership 80 cents each.

An alternative view:

Meet Todd, he's in danger of being bored this weekend, because he's played all 20 of the courses within an hours drive of his house.
Luckily enough, the government keep the gas prices so low that he can fill up his 4 litre SUV and drive for 90 minutes instead, and play one of the other 20 that are available. Not only that, he can enter any one of 3 B-Tier events and win back more than his entry fee in plastic. He knows this because he checked out the ratings of his competitors on the PDGA site, where the TD had registered them, and reckons he's in with a shout of top 3 in AdvAm. The course should suit him too, he checked it out on the course directory.
Heck, if he wins, he'll get a Skillshot that he can sell to Tyler or one of the other 30 guys down the local league for $70.
He's hacked off though, cos this is his first event of the year, and he has to fork out for his PDGA membership. I mean it's less than a tank of gas for his environment destroying vehicle of choice, but what exactly do they provide him to justify this?

Meet Alfred, he's in danger of being bored this weekend, because he's played all 20 courses in his country. 10 of them are 9 hole pitch and putt, 5 are on private property and he couldn't play them even if he wanted, and the nearest one he could play is 100 miles away, 2 hours if he gets lucky with the traffic.
At �4 (&gt;$8) a gallon, it'll cost him $60 for the trip in his 1.6 litre diesel, but at least the government hasn't yet set up the toll system they're planning to reduce traffic and cut emissions.
Alfred though, decides not to make the trip. There isn't an event this month, and there was only one other guy willing to make it out and play. He'll save his money, because next month there's a PDGA Europe event in Switzerland, and he wants to support this fantastic initiative that is bringing this sport he loves to so many new people. It's really raised the profile of the sport, and because of this he's meeting his local council rep to see if they might consider putting in an 18 hole course in a local park. It's the third council he's tried, but because of TV coverage of last years PDGA British Open, they actually rang him this time, rather than the other way round.
Things are really starting to take off, he remembers just a couple of years ago, before PDGA Europe, when the European scene was tiny, and hardly anyone travelled. Now, these events are selling out real early, and the standards are better than ever. Alfred understands that the PDGA has been subsidising Europe a little, to get disc golf off the ground here. He's grateful for the assist, and he knows that the plan is for PDGA Europe be self sufficient and raising their own fees within the next few years. That'd be great because then they could work towards some of those benefits the American's have got, things like subsidised insurance, the Marshalls Scheme, maybe a 'Worlds' competition that exists somewhere other than the US, officials exams in the various European languages, funded initiatives to air DG on TV, a dedicated person actively seeking sponsorship angles, maybe a Europe-centric magazine.

BDH, 80 cents per US member... 11,000 * .80 = $8,800. divided by 1200 international members = $7.33.

the 07-08-09 report/projection you authored shows it even higher, a bit over the $10 number DSCMN used.

dont take me wrong, i believe ALL pdga programs should have a program budget, and have some regular reporting and planning. the International Program is one of a very few that does, and you should be commended for that.

Certainly we did what we could to invite, encourage and welcome our International members to the Pro Worlds this year by returning the World Doubles to the same time period, trying the "Olympic village" idea, shuttle help to/from the Twin Cities airport and providing DVDs so some could see the Highbridge complex long in advance. We had double the number of International players this year compared to any Worlds back to 2001 when we also worked hard for the Twin Cities Pro Worlds to welcome our International members. In terms of "subsidies" when you consider all Worlds have been in North America, the U.S. players are "subsidized" in relation to the travel costs borne by our International members who attend including most other Majors.

asking questions is NOT lack of support. it is a desire to understand. lets be positive, shall we?

bdh, i dont want to provide actual numbers, but i think i can provide an estimate which may or may not be accurate. the numbers from the spreadheet are different from the budget, arent they? one line item grew by about $4,500, so the difference would be $12,850 (estimated) instead of the $8,350. that about $10/intl member. we're both correct.

i didnt mention the projection because a) i'm not allowed to talk about things like that (except now i am, as long as i estimate generally instead of using actuals specifically), and b) after adding in the change i mentioned above, 2009 is projected at a loss also. smaller, true.

for the record... i think we benefit from a decent International program. i was in Romania, Hungary and Bulgaria within 12 months of the wall coming down. two of the ventures i did the missionary work for in the UK and the Netherlands are now thriving operations. i have been dealing with asia for seven years now with my own business, and have travelled extensively for business in Asia. i lived in china for a period. as someone who has worked internationally both remotely and on the ground for nearly 20 years, i dont need much convincing about the value of the international program. it is very much a part of our future. that doesnt mean i'm not gonna quibble about the numbers though

here's hank again. mtl edited it. let's hope for his dainty sensibilities.

�gosh darn it!� screamed hank. the skin on his knuckle had scrapped upward and accordioned and revealed the bluish white flesh that would, momentarily, be flushed red. he had paid the man for the weed-whacker repair and knew from the way he had avoided his gaze and shuffled his feet the work was for nothing. it broke down only a few minutes into cutting the disc golf fairway and with a tournament coming up that weekend; he would have to fix the machine or get to work slashing the tall weeds by hand. his wrench slipped repeatedly on the grooved, smoothed down nut. ****.

�volunteer of the year� they admiringly called him and other such nonsense. hank did what he did because he had to. it kept him sane he felt. he�d been a pdga member for 10 years now and would continue to support the organization as long as he could afford it. $75 wasn�t anything to sneeze at in normal times and these weren�t real normal times. he wasn�t much for politics and didn�t care much for what passed for issues, but times were tough he acknowledged. he worked and played disc golf and trusted in those in charge to do what was right for americans. just like his dad he thought rather proudly--and sad too at the brief visitation upon his mind for the father he had lost. he was comforted by the knowledge that no president, no man given so much power, would do anything to harm the hard-working people of america. these times weren�t his fault he told himself. if we can�t trust our leaders, he thought, who can we trust?

the rhythm of the sickle was punctuated by the sweat dripping from his brow. when he lost his IT job, when they shipped it off to india, hank knew he would have to scramble to make ends meet. and scramble he did. he worked when he could roofing and siding for his best pal from high school from whom he had recently lost and regained contact. it was good that they could become fast friends again so easily he thought. the work was good and the pay wasn�t bad but it was inconsistent and the cost of healthcare alone for his family was burdensome and he thought quickly about doing without it for awhile, but only quickly and then just as quickly he tried to put it out of his mind. so risky, but if it was just for a little while. maybe.

he was thinking about dues. some in the club had been griping about $75 dues, but hank didn�t gripe. he listened and kept his mouth shut and was surprised to hear some say that the pdga leadership was using his dues to support other members. international they said. they called it a subsidy, like when the government gives money to help out struggling companies. tax breaks maybe for companies; hank looked forward to getting home and getting a shower and reading about this on the pdga message board. he knew the idiot in the club had good intentions, but he always seemed to be complaining about the pdga, nothing constructive. hank was sure that this subsidy would be something akin to charity. was the pdga helping others less fortunate? he knew that the club idiot probably got it wrong; he had long felt that disc golfers, specifically the pdga members had a lot of power to do good when they pooled their resources. surely they were raising money for orphans from the sudan or other places he was too embarrassed to admit he couldn�t locate on the map.

after his shower hank was sore but refreshed. he sat down with a beer and clicked the computer to whirring. he signed. he was excited about a new disc golf season. he was excited about scraping together his $75 to send in and keeping his membership streak alive. isn�t this the year they send him a bag tag for 10 years as a member he asked himself silently. in a moment he was on the pdga website.

well done neil. i'm secretly happy that the pdga is helping the disc golf scene in europe. if i can get off the "no fly" list i'll be over to see the benefit of my 80 cents and visit my relatives.

personally i don't think it's ever bad for members to discuss how their money is spent.

personally i don't think it's ever bad for members to discuss how their money is spent.



Let me know when you're ready to do so.
I do think it's bad to portray Europeans as pampered freeloading dandies, and portray Americans as underprivileged hard-working honest-Joes.

If you want a discussion about why the PDGA has elected to make a short term loss on the international scene, with a firm plan in place for reducing and eliminating that overhead, then ask questions, don't write derogatory material.

neil,

your welcome.

kevin

Pro registration, US, without mag: $65
Pro registration, Intl, without mag: $40

whats up with that? anyone need an address in Mexico?

What part of this whole thread did you miss, even while commenting on it? You know why we're subsidised, you know what services we don't have access to, but you post this kind of inflammatory garbage?

As a board member, you should be above this sort of post, I'm rapidly regretting having voted for you in the last election. Your entire attitude has gone from someone trying to be progressive and effect change from the inside (which is what I voted for), to a whiner and stirrer, which is what I specifically voted against, and hugely unprofessional.

Sorry if this comes over as harsh, but I'm extremely concerned about this. It isn't about differing opinions, everyone is entitled to those, it's about attitude and how you present your views.

its a simple question. being inflamed by it is your choice.

as far as services "you dont have access to", the membership forms list the same services for both intl and US/Canada.

I'm not inflamed by it; it's the pdga-haters who will take this kind of post and use it to bang their drum that I was referring to.

From a previous post:

Off the top of my head, the following services are not provided to European Pros/TDs - subsidised insurance, Marshalls Scheme, a 'Worlds' competition that exists anywhere other than the US, officials exams in the various European languages, funded initiatives to air DG on TV, a dedicated person actively seeking sponsorship angles...

There is undoubtedly more, but you should get the picture.

In addition, PDGA Europe is very much a developing scene, with different needs and goals to that of US-based PDGA. It is in acknowledgement of that fact that the long term strategy is for PDGA Europe to be a stand-alone entity, setting and collecting its own membership fees. To this end per-player fees are already paid into a European account.

The PDGA is an extremely US-centric organisation, and it is to their credit that they are able to understand the varying stages of development of the many European countries, and set pricing and competition structures that both foster development and strengthen the PDGA brand worldwide.

<font color="blue"> [personal attack removed] </font>

it wasnt discussed and decided at a BOD meeting. i did not vote against european (or asian or anything other kind) subsidies, so you're wrong on that one. my personal view is that an international program is well worth a modest deficit.

My above post was not a personal attack. It was removed by the moderators anyway.

What part of this whole thread did you miss, even while commenting on it? You know why we're subsidised, you know what services we don't have access to, but you post this kind of inflammatory garbage?

As a board member, you should be above this sort of post, I'm rapidly regretting having voted for you in the last election. Your entire attitude has gone from someone trying to be progressive and effect change from the inside (which is what I voted for), to a whiner and stirrer, which is what I specifically voted against, and hugely unprofessional.

Sorry if this comes over as harsh, but I'm extremely concerned about this. It isn't about differing opinions, everyone is entitled to those, it's about attitude and how you present your views.


Ditto

"Pro registration, US, without mag: $65
Pro registration, Intl, without mag: $40

whats up with that? anyone need an address in Mexico? "

"my personal view is that an international program is well worth a modest deficit."

Are you bipolar? :confused:

the two are neither exclusive of one another, nor need to be explained by a chemical imbalance :(

Pro registration, US, without mag: $65
Pro registration, Intl, without mag: $40

whats up with that? anyone need an address in Mexico?




I've said it before and I'll say it again. Instead of raising the International fees in 2009, the PDGA should instead lower the North American fees to match the International ones. It's amazing that LOWER FEES have worked so darn well in Europe, but the PDGA isn't smart enough to do that in the New World. It's almost worthy of sarcastic commentary, but that would probably be misunderstood by the same people who can't see the success of lower European fees, and I wouldn't be allowed to profer my excellent suggestions for another three months...

Pro registration, US, without mag: $65
Pro registration, Intl, without mag: $40

whats up with that? anyone need an address in Mexico?




I've said it before and I'll say it again. Instead of raising the International fees in 2009, the PDGA should instead lower the North American fees to match the International ones. It's amazing that LOWER FEES have worked so darn well in Europe, but the PDGA isn't smart enough to do that in the New World. It's almost worthy of sarcastic commentary, but that would probably be misunderstood by the same people who can't see the success of lower European fees, and I wouldn't be allowed to profer my excellent suggestions for another three months...



And thus it is proved that if you post this kind of inflammatory material, the trolls will feed...

Anyone who had actually read the thread would immediately know that the international program is running at at a loss, hell, the thread title implies it!
Running the whole PDGA at an equivalent loss... hmmm, sensible

[b][i] You could always cut your expenses to match the decline in revenue. Perhaps dispatch of consultants and their ilk. Perhaps cut the staff's benefits or at least stop flying them across the pond to play tournaments. The PDGA, in my humble opinion, wastes so much money trying to do too much. They need to keep it simple and drop the fees which apparently is a proven method to increase membership. If the PDGA would make its services affordable, more regional and international tournament series/organizations would be more likely to cooperate with the PDGA. Instead the PDGA insists that its programs are too important to cut. If International membership now represents 10% of the members, American membership must have actually declined this year after the PDGA implemented a huge fee increase...but it appears the fees are staying put. Dreadful.It appears the PDGA continues to ignore reality and its own members to the detriment of all.

Not to belittle your valid point Rebel, but bearing in mind inflation, keeping fees the same is comparable to a fixed money decline. And those Canadians with that crazy strong CDN are getting in at 40% off last years prices!

But seriously, I think some folks assume your posts are negative. Your suggestion would result in significant growth of the PDGA in the US and continued strong growth in Europe and Asia. With some office efficiencies and the extra sponsorship money this would potentially bring in, the PDGA could lower fees and not bleed money. This is in no way trolling. It is in fact putting an idea on the table that would help to grow &amp; strengthen the PDGA.

I will make this one of my projects for the next month - try and build a model where member fees can come down, memberships will go up, and the office staff can handle it through new efficiencies. (Actually, one of Brian Graham's main focuses is working on making the running of the office more efficient so perhaps all of this will tie together).

Thanks to the Intl program, we can actually project how much the PDGA could be growing with lower member fees.

My above post was not a personal attack. It was removed by the moderators anyway.






WHAT is a personal attack??....oh yea...wrong thread...

Maybe what I say have little to do with this thread but I want to say it anyway.My pdga number is 3791
I didn't join because I had the feeling that I would get anything for my money.I joined because I am a discgolf player and I am glad to give some money to an organisation who is trying to get more players.I deeply respect anybody who putts in time and/or money to run a tournament or anything else which is good for our beloved sport.To me being a member is like being part of something bigger.I have also been a birdie club member for 5 years while living in The Netherlands(my whole life kinda cuz' I am Dutch)and I am sure that my money went to good places(or people).I am also happy that I get a membership card and a mag for 20 bucks lesser then in the states.Maybe we get this because traveling to America costs us so much and hardly anybody does it(for that reason)?Eventhou I travelled all over America to play in 6 (Pro)Worlds,I will never forget how well I was treated when I was there by the pdga and it's members!!So to me, paying some bucks to be part of a world wide organisation, is an honor! And I am proud to say that I am part of the pdga!

Arthur....still hooked on discgolf after all these years.

Arthur is the man take it from American in Europe who has stayed at his place this man is disc golf and loves disc golf. Subsidizing disc golf will soon go away with more Euro players every day. I see first hand this sport is the fastest growing sport over here and if we as Americans can help we should.

You know, earlier this year I brought up the idea of subsidizing women to play pro, since women are certainly the vast minority of disc golfers.....probably even more scarce than male European golfers compared to male American golfers.

And my idea was overwhelmingly shot down, while there seems to be general support in this thread. I am neither for or against subsidization of our European counterparts since I'm not European, but I am a pro woman and resent - just a tad - that applying the same concept to American women is soooooo ridiculous.

Take tourney points, for example. European women play pro all the way down to the 640-rated players while we have women in the top 30 IN THE WORLD still playing am or many times men's intermediate. So.......can we have some subsidization, too???????

If you can get some subsidies for women, my top 30s daughter might go pro sometime before hell freezes over. She looks at the small fields and small payouts and thinks it is just more fun to play in a field of 20 or 30 men than in a field of 3 or 4 women.

There is so little money in this game, you have to play for the love of the game, and not for extrinsic rewards.