Anyone care to comment on this oxy-moron of a tournament division?

It's only named recreational because inconsistent or erratic would be even more confusing.

And whats even worse? It being offered at upper tier events.

when i first started playing, rec was more of a "play once a week or so" group of people. which is what i am (playing once a week or every other week). but i don't play that division. what's worse, imo, is that recreational isn't even the lowest level of tournament play.

Yesh. Ish is correct,

It's only named recreational because inconsistent or erratic would be even more confusing.

I resemble that remark!

when i first started playing, rec was more of a "play once a week or so" group of people. which is what i am (playing once a week or every other week). but i don't play that division. what's worse, imo, is that recreational isn't even the lowest level of tournament play.
Click, click, highlight, Ctrl C, hover, click, Ctrl V, enter, back, back, back.

You don't play the division but your skill level falls within the definition of the division.

Recreational also defines the best amateur women in the World, except for Kelsey and Paige. And a sizeable number of the Pro Senior Grand Masters and Legends.

MA3 is a far better name for the division.

Click, click, highlight, Ctrl C, hover, click, Ctrl V, enter, back, back, back.

You don't play the division but your skill level falls within the definition of the division.

Recreational also defines the best amateur women in the World, except for Kelsey and Paige. And a sizeable number of the Pro Senior Grand Masters and Legends.

MA3 is a far better name for the division.

How about MA3.5? I mean considering Chuck Karate chopped INT to make the new MA3 and 4.

At least by offering MA3 at large events they will have their ratings boosted by playing with 1000+ rated players ( oh wait that doesn't happen) so they might get bumped back into INT which there played anyway before the change.

Seriously though if a tournament (B-tier+) has the capability of filling without the MA3 or MA4 divisions I feel that at least the lower of the two should be dropped with the possibility of Ma3 at A-tiers if there is a need for room.

We have this dispute every year whether to have a "Recreation state champ" but yet the division has still been offered since we can add another course.

Tiers should have more meaning and to me I think that means targeting specific divisions at each different tier in a way that will give them more separation then just cash requirement.

I think it is somewhat grammatically nonsensical to have a recreational state champ or an intermediate state champ. "Champ of what?" "People below an arbitrary skill level as represented by a numerical value."

{I'm saying this, but I'm not giving back my Intermediate state championship trophies! :D }

But it makes lots of economic sense if the pro purse or tournament overhead is being financed by amateurs.

It does not make any sense at all when an A-Tier fills in 5 days and only 20 open players(including women) got to sign up. We all know(whether we admit it or not) that the ams fund the pro purse, but this is ridiculous!

Does anyone wanna look back at A-tiers over the last five years and see what the lowest amount of attending Open players(including women) was?

It does not make any sense at all when an A-Tier fills in 5 days and only 20 open players(including women) got to sign up. We all know(whether we admit it or not) that the ams fund the pro purse, but this is ridiculous!It's going to work good for the 20 pros that pre-registered. $1500 / 9 is some pretty serious added cash. What were the pros who did not get in doing for those five days? Snooze you lose.

It's going to work good for the 20 pros that pre-registered. $1500 / 9 is some pretty serious added cash. What were the pros who did not get in doing for those five days? Snooze you lose.



Tour cards used to help out but it seems that the PDGA should still allow 14 day reservation for card holders or something. Beaver State Fling filled basically in one day so I guess those guys were snoozing to that weren't able to get in because the locals found the quickest way in.

If the point of these larger events is to cater to the upper divisions it would be nice if those divisions had a chance to build in numbers. Also at these events Ma4 doesn't need to be offered and Ma3 probably as well if that is needed to make room at the top and these players can always play MA2 if they want to play.

MA3 and MA4 pay just as much to the PDGA as MA1 players. There's no reason to treat them as second class citizens just because some MA1 players are waiting for the weather forecast.

Tour cards used to help out but it seems that the PDGA should still allow 14 day reservation for card holders or something. Beaver State Fling filled basically in one day so I guess those guys were snoozing to that weren't able to get in because the locals found the quickest way in.

If the point of these larger events is to cater to the upper divisions it would be nice if those divisions had a chance to build in numbers. Also at these events Ma4 doesn't need to be offered and Ma3 probably as well if that is needed to make room at the top and these players can always play MA2 if they want to play.

Hey I resent that remark about the Beaver State Fling! We filled the AM A-Tier side in 3.5 hours and the Pro NT side in 36 hours. So yes we filled the Pro side really fast but it was its own event and we gave a 3 day notice ahead of time as to when the registration would Open. This next year we are going to try to get an ad in the magazine in the winter time announcing the registration open date. In 2010 we will also open the NT side before the A-tier side so there is no spillage of Amateurs to the Pro side. Its pretty amazing when the event fills up on the Am side and they want to play so bad they will pay the $125.00 entry just to compete on these courses, knowing full well that it is purely a donation.

The divisions offered at the event is up to the TD so perhaps you can run your own events or help the TD and convince them that certain divisions should not be included. We could not afford to allow the skill level of MA3 and MA4 this year at the Beaver State Fling. The courses are very demanding and require a skill level of at least an MA2 or FW2 status.

Also there was no transfer of funds from the Amateur side to the Pro side based on wholesale costs. Sure we were able to secure a wholesale costs for the players pack items for the Amateurs but the difference in the wholesale and retails stayed in the amateur side as it should and goes toward their prize payout. Who does that?

My opinion is that the PDGA should only allow registration for NT events to Pro PDGA paying members, then at some point before the event the TD can allow amateurs into the NT to fill it up.

I would also like it if the PDGA allowed an entry on the Tournament page saying when registration will open and was accessible by the TD of the event not one that is hard coded at the PDGA office when the Sanctioning agreement is approved. So under the Classification entry there would be another entry of Registration Date which is modifiable by the TD using their Password code.

Hey I resent that remark about the Beaver State Fling! We filled the AM A-Tier side in 3.5 hours and the Pro NT side in 36 hours. So yes we filled the Pro side really fast but it was its own event and we gave a 3 day notice ahead of time as to when the registration would Open. This next year we are going to try to get an ad in the magazine in the winter time announcing the registration open date. In 2010 we will also open the NT side before the A-tier side so there is no spillage of Amateurs to the Pro side. Its pretty amazing when the event fills up on the Am side and they want to play so bad they will pay the $125.00 entry just to compete on these courses, knowing full well that it is purely a donation.

The divisions offered at the event is up to the TD so perhaps you can run your own events or help the TD and convince them that certain divisions should not be included. We could not afford to allow the skill level of MA3 and MA4 this year at the Beaver State Fling. The courses are very demanding and require a skill level of at least an MA2 or FW2 status.

Also there was no transfer of funds from the Amateur side to the Pro side based on wholesale costs. Sure we were able to secure a wholesale costs for the players pack items for the Amateurs but the difference in the wholesale and retails stayed in the amateur side as it should and goes toward their prize payout. Who does that?

My opinion is that the PDGA should only allow registration for NT events to Pro PDGA paying members, then at some point before the event the TD can allow amateurs into the NT to fill it up.

I would also like it if the PDGA allowed an entry on the Tournament page saying when registration will open and was accessible by the TD of the event not one that is hard coded at the PDGA office when the Sanctioning agreement is approved. So under the Classification entry there would be another entry of Registration Date which is modifiable by the TD using their Password code.

Those are some good points and I think you are right about allowing only Pro paying members to play if there is going to be limited space within an NT. I donated a few hundred playing NTs as an AM and while it was a cool experience I would have been fine

Maybe in the future Tour cards will come back and be required for some events in order to register but until then you probably should have to be a Pro paying member to play MPO in NTs and some A-tiers.

flash, is there a waitlist for 2010 yet?

maybe up the entry to $200 and offer a few spots on ebay like marshall st.

We could not afford to allow the skill level of MA3 and MA4 this year at the Beaver State Fling. The courses are very demanding and require a skill level of at least an MA2 or FW2 status.
Huh? There are three amateur women in the world who play at a higher skill level than MA3. Every MA3 rated player has at least 51 rating points on every FW2. If you are going to exclude MA3s based on some bogus argument about skill levels, you'd also have to exclude all amateur women except Paige, Kelsey and now Leslie [assuming she's a her].

Feel free to exclude whoever you want to; it's your tournament. But don't make up bogus arguments about FW2s playing at a higher skill level than MA3s and MA4s. FW2 is the equivalent skill level to MA5.

Huh? There are three amateur women in the world who play at a higher skill level than MA3. Every MA3 rated player has at least 51 rating points on every FW2. If you are going to exclude MA3s based on some bogus argument about skill levels, you'd also have to exclude all amateur women except Paige, Kelsey and now Leslie [assuming she's a her].

Feel free to exclude whoever you want to; it's your tournament. But don't make up bogus arguments about FW2s playing at a higher skill level than MA3s and MA4s. FW2 is the equivalent skill level to MA5.

You can claim whatever you want about skills of a division classification, but from my point of view, ratings do not demonstrate course navigation at lower levels. You may be right with the rating scale matching up between MA5 and FW2 and sure the MA3's & MA4's can throw farther but the majority of the time half the group is throwing farther into the shule or thick woods and spend time trying to find one or more discs. We have timed many groups on these two courses over the last 6 years and FW2 women can play the course just as quick as most divisions. Sure they have more strokes on their card but they are usually in the fairway. So yes we can exclude the divisions we want to and yes I feel comfortable making a blanket statement about skill levels on these courses during this event. Sure maybe skill level is not the proper claim but speed of play due to bad mistakes surely is.

flash, is there a waitlist for 2010 yet?

maybe up the entry to $200 and offer a few spots on ebay like marshall st.


Brock,

It seems like the logical choice to charge more due to demand but we have prided ourselves on having one of the lowest entry fees on the National Tour. We keep working to make the event better and better without having to jack up the entry fee. This year we added more cash then entry fees and we are aiming for the same result next year. It is also is nice to offer a players pack to the Pro's with little to no cost to the pro payout.

i agree, just thinking you will definitely still fill, fatten your already PHAT payout some more. and reduce shut out advanced players from snaking spots from potential touring pros, as 200 is something to think about if you're just donating

bsf is awesome, one of the best shows on tour. go with what works, i'm always impressed with oregon style and the cool people abundant.

wish you'd bring naked juice back, i must have sucked 10 of those tasty treats down !!

good luck and give us the goods when you can. peoples in hawaii are coming for this...

as far as pros getting to register before the events fill, why not tier the registration.

pros can register for a day or two, then add ma1/fw1 for a day or two, then ma2/fw2, and so on untill it is open to everyone.

this gives those pros who are "snoozing" a better shot at making it. since people like me (ma2 player - rated ma3) are awaiting the "click here to register" button so inpatiently.

Limited Divisions and a sliding scale addresses all these problems.

What if you qualified for a division based on how many discs you carry?