In case you hadn't been checking in on the "Deals on Discs" thread, it has unfortunately drifted into marijuana usage thread. That's not neccessarily a bad thing either, there have been some VERY valid points brought up, but they are totally in the wrong thread. So let's move it here and while we're at it let's clear something else up.

Need to change that to smoking on the course. I know allot of golfers that do smoke that wouldn't even think about doing it on the course.

Nope, I want to see how many consume marijuana, plain and simple. I don't care if they do it in their closet, under a sheet, through a blow-tube during a full-moon while whistling dixie. The point is, how many golfers are marijuana consumers. I should however clarify that it is not how many HAVE smoked, but how many DO smoke. /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

I plead the Fifth.

Dave Chapelle's voice,

So many amendments to choose from,
But I can only choose one,
1...
2...
3...
4...
fif, I plead the fif.

Please tell me you at least voted prior to your plea... :D

You can't plead the Fifth because there's no way you could incriminate yourself by answering this question. It doesn't ask about your personal habits, just what you've observed among the disc golfing community.

I voted honestly...pleading the fifth insinuates I have something to hide...my thoughts when someone pleads the fifth...GUILTY!

I voted honestly...pleading the fifth insinuates I have something to hide...my thoughts when someone pleads the fifth...GUILTY!



Our fifth amendment rights being invoked insinuates nothing. A person hearing someone invoke their rights can assume the person is guilty only because they feel that way about themselves; "I'd only use the Fifth because I have something to hide". :o

The Fifth just means they don't want to say, not "I'm guilty". :cool:

I voted honestly...pleading the fifth insinuates I have something to hide...my thoughts when someone pleads the fifth...GUILTY!



Basically, smart maney agrees, but I suppose there are extrenuous circumstances, where you could refuse to answer a question, on the grounds you woudl be incriminating yourself on a totally seperate offense, by answering a specific question.

i suck bad enough sober... i can't take a chance of doing it hi&h

i suck bad enough sober... i can't take a chance of doing it hi&h



that is your reaction then, every drug effects the body differently, and people may have simlier effects, each one is effected a diff way either mental or bodily, its all subjective

fyi, low doses of the active drug in "magical" mushrooms, psilocybin/psilocyn has been shown to IMPROVE visual acuity.

now whats the fun in that? :D

It's a bad pole that I have no interest in voting on.

Loaded question.

All I am going to say is that I don't care who "smokes", I only care if you smoke at the course. I just don't want to see it.

BTW, in KY I was playing a round at 730am on Sunday morning just after a hard rain. There were already 3 trucks in the parking lot. I caught up with them on the 14th hole and smelled that distictive smell of herb :D

How many people do you know that DONT play disc golf, who are stoners?

I know people who play that smoke, and people who play that don't.

I know people who don't play that smoke, and people who don't play that dont smoke.

WHATEVER!

im willing to bet more disc golfers drink boose then smoke cannabis. this is a trival topic. who cares what drug someone wants to use, as long as they dont harm others or teh course.

its kinda sad, that so many go off of false facts and propaganda, and rarely get off thier own asses to find the facts.

im willing to bet more disc golfers drink boose then smoke cannabis. this is a trival topic. who cares what drug someone wants to use, as long as they dont harm others or teh course.

its kinda sad, that so many go off of false facts and propaganda, and rarely get off thier own asses to find the facts.



I care at tournaments, due to Rule 804.05. I also care during casual play due to state and federal law and the risk of losing a course due to drug use by golfers.

If you want to smoke it in public (ie, not in your own house), please see your nearest lawmakers and work to get the laws changed. That's a great thing about the USA, there is a process to change laws. Too bad most marijuana smokers don't have the guts or brains to use the process.

I have to weigh in here. I don't smoke, not because I don't like it, but because it really screws up my putting (OK, nobody needs to point out that I must I have done the experiment :o). But I have to say that one of the things that attracted me to disc golf was the whole counter-culture aspect. Frankly, I like the fact the people *do* smoke on the course. Heresy, I know; but there it is.

I fully agree with the 'no smoking' and 'no drinking' policies at sanctioned events. Casual play is different, however. Here in Austin, there seems to be a live-and-let-live policy (thankfully), and the cops seem to do a pretty good job of worrying about drunk drivers, etc., and leave the parks to people who are just trying to chill out and have some fun.

When the courses get full of no-beer and no-smoking (of whatever) types, I'll move on to another pastime (how about disc bowling? :p).

Now, what I don't have *any* tolerance for are the beer drinkers and cig. smokers who throw their cans & buts on the course (or anywhere), but that's a different topic.

Now, what I don't have *any* tolerance for are the beer drinkers and cig. smokers who throw their cans & buts on the course (or anywhere), but that's a different topic.


Exactly what I was gonna say. A littered course makes the sport look bad. Go ahead and smoke or drink, just clean up after yourself.

But I have to say that one of the things that attracted me to disc golf was the whole counter-culture aspect. Frankly, I like the fact the people *do* smoke on the course. Heresy, I know; but there it is.

When the courses get full of no-beer and no-smoking (of whatever) types, I'll move on to another pastime (how about disc bowling? :p).




While I strongly feel that it is not the place of the PDGA to regulate what happens on courses during casual play I am equally as strongly against smoking and drinking on courses - period. The idea that one needs to smoke to have a counter culture or that smoking somehow is the only way to define counter culture seems a little presumptuous to me. To define the counter culture aspects of our sport by smoking dope says that we are dependent on drugs to be different (read that "better") than other sports/activities. I also like the counter culture aspects of disc golf and that feeling isn't drug dependent (sorry couldn't resist :D).

Even if pot were legal (and I think if alcohol is legal then pot should also be legal) I still would be against its use on the course. At the age of 43, I have seen numerous people either high or drunk in numerous situations. For the most part, no matter how polite, they are an irritant, their reflexes are slowed, their concept of common courtesy is impaired, and their focus is on their drug of choice not on the other things they are doing.

If you can't have "fun" at something as stimulating and interesting as disc golf - and with the very diverse and interesting people who play this sport - without being stoned or drunk, then you are probably better off with Prozac than dope. Well, I'm off to practice my counter culture mantra, drugs not included. :D

The whole point of this thread was to point out to the folks that think pot smokers give our sport a bad image that pot smokers are the obvious majority. In this country it's majority rules, with of course, minority rights. In other words, if you're offended by the pot smokers, too bad, you're out-numbered! But, that doesn't mean you have to toke-up or change sports, just leave the pot-heads alone. This sport was started by pot-heads and continues to be dominated by them, so don't get your panties in a wad next time you see someone toking up at the course during a CASUAL round (I would never endorse breaking PDGA rules during a tournament), or if you see discs for sale at a head shop, or discs dyed with huge pot-leafs on them, etc... :p

This sport was started by pot-heads and continues to be dominated by them, so don't get your panties in a wad next time you see someone toking up at the course during a CASUAL round <font color="red">(I would never endorse breaking PDGA rules during a tournament)</font> , or if you see discs for sale at a head shop, or discs dyed with huge pot-leafs on them, etc... :p



But, you would break the law's of <font color="blue"> The United States </font> at any time you dam well please?
If you want to go by Majority rules then think about the other people that use these wonderful parks that let use put a disc golf course on their grounds. All I�m saying is that it only takes one person to see disc golfers as pot heads (since the Majority of us are as you pointed out) and get a stick up there [*****], and we loss a course or have a course new denied. Maybe you don't want to see this sport grow but I sure do.

i think this sport has alot of issue's to deal with .imo our sport will never growe past what it is

I do not smoke

I find it rather annoying when ppl do it during rounds - nuff said

The whole point of this thread was to point out to the folks that think pot smokers give our sport a bad image that pot smokers are the obvious majority.



I disagree with that statement. 5 guys smoking a bowl in the parking lot and 10 guys smoking on the course is 15 out of 90 players, which is far from an "ovious majority". But you sure do remember that knot-head minority after the event.

The whole point of this thread was to point out to the folks that think pot smokers give our sport a bad image that pot smokers are the obvious majority. In this country it's majority rules, with of course, minority rights. In other words, if you're offended by the pot smokers, too bad, you're out-numbered! But, that doesn't mean you have to toke-up or change sports, just leave the pot-heads alone. This sport was started by pot-heads and continues to be dominated by them, so don't get your panties in a wad next time you see someone toking up at the course during a CASUAL round (I would never endorse breaking PDGA rules during a tournament), or if you see discs for sale at a head shop, or discs dyed with huge pot-leafs on them, etc... :p



One million lemmings can't be wrong :eek: end sarcasm!

By "obvious majority" I meant the results of the poll.

The idea that this poll proves something is flawed, mainly because the poll is possibly flawed by ascertainment bias. In order for your poll to have meaning it has to be randomly drawn across the disc golf community. Unless you can ensure that, the poll is meaningless. I can imagine at least two reasons why this poll as set up might be biased.

First - You've chosen a charged issue that certain people have strong opinions on and others don't care about. Myself for example, I didn't vote until today. Didn't really care to but I wanted to see the results so I voted. It is entirely likely that smokers would be more interested in airing their view in your poll than non-smokers.

Second - the structure of the questions are incendiary. The first reply is neutral; it imparts little emotional impact unless you already have an emotional commitment. The second is highly inflammatory; it starts out with a curse and is absolute in its assertion. The very nature of the questions would lead a neutral or slightly biased voter to select the first choice.

Finally, what people believe and what is reality are two different things. For example, our President, Congress and Senate, for the most part, do not believe that global warming exists. The scientific data is clear on the subject. Global-warming is occurring, period. What they want to believe is irrelevant. Whether or not the people in this poll believe smoking is endemic doesn't matter. Until someone goes out and does a count we won't really know. All of that aside, I see some smoking, I hear credible stories that it occurs, but even with all that, by far, most of the people I see playing are not smoking. Therefore, anecdotally, I don't believe that it happens any more in disc golf than what I see in the population as a whole, based on personal observation.

It was a nice try to prove that we all smoke and support it but as they say "try try again."
:D

This was actually the closest way of coming to a number or percantage of possible pot-smokers in the disc golf community that I could think of. Polling golfers on an individual basis may prove counter-productive as most pot-smokers would not admit to a poll of their consumption (must have something to do with the paranoia associated with pot-smoking...). I had hoped the anonymity of this forum would give honest results. And true the wording of the choices, especially the second, did display some degree of emotion. My intention was to keep this light-hearted, I hadn't even considered that it would affect the outcome. I also knew going into it that not all golfers get on this website, and will probably never hear of or see this poll. That is why instead of asking "do you smoke pot, yes or no", I asked if a majority of the disc golfers you have seen or played with have smoked. I still feel this poll should hold some merit, a lot of people voted, and the results were not even close.

There is also another point that may actually prove to dis-credit my beloved poll even more, pot-smokers stick together and usually try to keep things discreet (for obvious reasons). In other words, say you're a non-smoker and you play at your local course regularly and everyone knows you're a non-smoker. The smokin' locals are going to keep it hidden when you're on their card or playing with them until you're not around. You often don't realize just how many smokers there are until you offer to share with some of them. This is true of playing with strangers, out-of-town tournaments, etc...it isn't until one guy fires-up then suddenly everybody starts pulling out their stashes. /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Excellent reply though Lyle, and like you said, looks like I'll just have to try, try again. :D

This was actually the closest way of coming to a number or percantage of possible pot-smokers in the disc golf community that I could think of.



And you would then compare that number with the percentage of possible pot-smokers in other communities (like maybe snowboarders or horse-back riders or mountain bikers) to see if we rank above or below the average?

Unfortunately, this bored is not the best cross-section of the sport and any poll here used to draw conclusions regarding the rest of the DG playing population would be sterotypical IMO.

I wonder if to some extent numbers are irrelavant. Given the perception, it is obvious we have a problem. For example, for the most part, people believe that politicians are corrupt. Most aren't but the perception kills them. We need to find a way to change the perception that we are all smoking.

One could make the argument that whether on not pot is endemic, if the perception were that we are good little boys and girls, that's all that matters. Sort of a jaded view but I would rather that than the possibly equally false perception that we are all smoking.

BTW - My guess is that we are no different than any other population, say snowboarders, and therefore should work hard to change the perception that we are. There is no proof that we light up any more than any other group of athletes so why accept the notion that we do?

Given the perception, it is obvious we have a problem



Agreed. Which is why I don't understand the poll - it's already obvious that we have a problem. /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Where's the solution?

This sport was started by pot-heads and continues to be dominated by them, so don't get your panties in a wad next time you see someone toking up at the course during a CASUAL round <font color="red">(I would never endorse breaking PDGA rules during a tournament)</font> , or if you see discs for sale at a head shop, or discs dyed with huge pot-leafs on them, etc... :p



But, you would break the law's of <font color="blue"> The United States </font> at any time you dam well please?
If you want to go by Majority rules then think about the other people that use these wonderful parks that let use put a disc golf course on their grounds. All I�m saying is that it only takes one person to see disc golfers as pot heads (since the Majority of us are as you pointed out) and get a stick up there [*****], and we loss a course or have a course new denied. Maybe you don't want to see this sport grow but I sure do.



yes, but dont forget, the law agaist marijuana in the usa, was put on the books, for racest, power,money reasons. the law was and still to this day NOT FOUNDED OFF OF SCIENCE!

im willing to bet more disc golfers drink boose then smoke cannabis. this is a trival topic. who cares what drug someone wants to use, as long as they dont harm others or teh course.

its kinda sad, that so many go off of false facts and propaganda, and rarely get off thier own asses to find the facts.



I care at tournaments, due to Rule 804.05. I also care during casual play due to state and federal law and the risk of losing a course due to drug use by golfers.

If you want to smoke it in public (ie, not in your own house), please see your nearest lawmakers and work to get the laws changed. That's a great thing about the USA, there is a process to change laws. Too bad most marijuana smokers don't have the guts or brains to use the process.



during a tourny, i can see the point of not having drugs consumed, but non tourny play or in thier own homes , let them be. UNLESS , at the course, when they are tokin up, ONLY WHEN, they are causing problems, then and ONLY, then should they be punished. ask yourself this, should someone be punished for using a drug?

and for decades, people ahve been trying to get THIS law changed. study after study(done by the goverment{1972 shaffer commission report, 1999 iom med mj report}), shows marijuana is relativly safe. it is not physical addictive, and psychological addiction is rare to low stat wise, around 3%. also, keep in mind ANYTHING IN LIFE CAN BE PSYCH ADDICTING. even with these reoprts, our law makers turn a blind eye to FACT. they in turn, perfer to only listen to pseudo science and propaganda. THEY IGNORE THE WILL OF THE PEOPLE, look at what happened in wash dc a few years back, 1998, the city had on its ballot, a medical marijuana bill. the people voted, but no one knew if it had passed or not for almost a year! that is due to rep. bob barr (r), he IMPOUNDED the $1.65 it would have cost for the votes to be tallyed. (now, why would a elected person. choose, to violate, the will of the people, the same people , he is there to represent?) so after the courts, overruled barr, the vote was 7 OUT OF 10 dc voters had said YES to med mj. then bob barr, pushed a bill through congress that BLOCKED the spending of the needed funds to enact the new law. barr has also, proposed a joint resolution of congress to simply overturn by fiat the will of the people. *all this can be found in the book: busted- stone cowboys, narco-lords and washington's war on drugs by mike gray*

so when the people tell those in charge of changing the laws and they wont listen, what then?


what a WEAK, your slinging insults, at a huge group of people, and using a false stereo type and its adhered images.

carl sagan was a daily smoker, did this make him a pot head? what about those who drink 1 beer a day, are they alcoholics? does this mean, all those who drink alcohol, are wife beating, drunk driving types? no, because like any drug, it EFFECTS everyone differently. so you cant just judge someone, by a handfull of others, who happen to use teh same drug. when you do that, your just viewing 1 factor of a person, and not the person. gee view the drug and drug only, forget about what else this person has or has not done in life.

Given the perception, it is obvious we have a problem



Agreed. Which is why I don't understand the poll - it's already obvious that we have a problem. /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Where's the solution?



the solution is simple, be honest about drugs and what they can cant do. have legit drug education. base things off of science and fact, not propaganda.

[quote

I care at tournaments, due to Rule 804.05. I also care during casual play due to state and federal law and the risk of losing a course due to drug use by golfers.

If you want to smoke it in public (ie, not in your own house), please see your nearest lawmakers and work to get the laws changed. That's a great thing about the USA, there is a process to change laws. Too bad most marijuana smokers don't have the guts or brains to use the process.

[/QUOTE]
That is absolute BS brother. Marijuana smokers have been working, going to jail, being beaten up and dying to get these laws changed. Just because you are to apathetic to stand up for our civil liberties doesn't mean there aren't millions of patriots ready to go to the grave to fight for the precious freedoms won by our forefathers and mothers blood. Don't talk about what you don't know about. Go to the Seattle Hempfest and learn what it is that these brave souls are doing to improve the quality of life and freedom for all americans.

But, you would break the law's of <font color="blue"> The United States </font> at any time you dam well please?



It's called civil disobedience. And it's a duty, not a right.

yes, but dont forget, the law agaist marijuana in the usa, was put on the books, for racest, power,money reasons. the law was and still to this day NOT FOUNDED OFF OF SCIENCE!



Jamy, let me explain something to you:

IT DOESN'T MATTER WHY THE LAW WAS PUT IN PLACE!! THE FACT OF THE MATTER IS THAT IT IS A LAW AND WILL REMAIN A LAW UNTIL THE PRO-MARIJUANA GROUPS ORGANIZE AND USE THE EXISTING CHANNELS TO CHANGE THE LAW!!

And by the way, the laws against murder are not based on science either.

Apologies to the rest of the board, but I don't deal well with idiotic logic.

I care at tournaments, due to Rule 804.05. I also care during casual play due to state and federal law and the risk of losing a course due to drug use by golfers.

If you want to smoke it in public (ie, not in your own house), please see your nearest lawmakers and work to get the laws changed. That's a great thing about the USA, there is a process to change laws. Too bad most marijuana smokers don't have the guts or brains to use the process.


That is absolute BS brother. Marijuana smokers have been working, going to jail, being beaten up and dying to get these laws changed. Just because you are to apathetic to stand up for our civil liberties doesn't mean there aren't millions of patriots ready to go to the grave to fight for the precious freedoms won by our forefathers and mothers blood. Don't talk about what you don't know about. Go to the Seattle Hempfest and learn what it is that these brave souls are doing to improve the quality of life and freedom for all americans.



Really? How patriotic. I don't remember reading the part about "Life, liberty and the right to smoke pot." Must have missed that one.

Mentioning marijuana with civil liberties is an insult to the history of Dr. King and others who had to fight for civil liberties.

"Let's improve the quality of life by getting stoned!" /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

And let's get one thing straight...Until the law is changed, it is THE LAW. Personally I could care less one way or the other about the legalization issue, but it is the law (and a PDGA rule). Therefore, I follow it. If you don't and think you're being persecuted, that's your problem.

But, you would break the law's of <font color="blue"> The United States </font> at any time you dam well please?



It's called civil disobedience. And it's a duty, not a right.


Look at me I'm a dirty stinking hippie that thinks just because I smoke pot the world will be a better place. Wrong, wrong it only looks better because you are on a mind altering DRUG! The civil rights movement was civic duty not getting stoned in the woods. Especially since I haven't seen the cops sick herds of dogs or turn fire hoses on hippies (God I would love to see the hoses, since most hippies smell).
P.S. I really hate stupid people.

Hey...look at that dirty hippie!!!!! Are you that guy in the IZOD?

Given the perception, it is obvious we have a problem



Agreed. Which is why I don't understand the poll - it's already obvious that we have a problem. /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Where's the solution?



the solution is simple, be honest about drugs and what they can cant do. have legit drug education. base things off of science and fact, not propaganda.



Here's a solution stop smoking dope. It's that simple if potheads stopped smoking then there wouldn't be a problem. Please stop with the weed is not an addiction and I can stop any time that I feel like it because it is a psycholgical addition and you will never feel like stopping.
I Hate WEED!!!!

It's called civil disobedience. And it's a duty, not a right.



Civil Disobedience would be going to the steps of city hall and smoking your pot. Preferably in a large enough group to make your arrest a media event and inconvenient for law enforcement.

Hiding in the woods at a disc golf course and smoking pot is not Civil Disobedience. It's just breaking lthe law. And risking the course. And subjecting all disc golfers at that course to your drifting smoke.

We don't all smoke. We don't all want to smoke. Legalizing is not a disc golf issue, it's an issue for pot smokers to work away from the course. Please join your local chapter of NORML and work to get the laws changed if you feel so strongly about it.

But don't be a [*****] and hide in the woods and then try to say you are serving your country. That's lame BS.

excellent observation rhett.

personally speaking i'm way more offended by broken glass and graffitti on the course than pot smoke but to each his own.

if smoking pot is an important part of your life then by all means let your local lawmakers know, don't sacrifice the game. SE michigan is apparently on the verge of losing a couple of fantastic golf courses due to vandalism,alcohol and pot. if taking a political stance doesn't appeal to you, vote with your dollars and move somewhere that isn't as oppressive to you. it wont be too long before the game evolves beyond run down city parks but why take a chance picking the bud before its mature.

I was going to jump on this last night, but didn't.

Glad to see there were enough responses to cover all of the points I wanted to bring up.

If it's not addictive, leave it at home for the day.

Even if it's allowed in your park, please leave the glass bottles at home.

Please, Please, carry your cigarette butts to the trash.

I'm really glad to see how many people have posted here voicing their opinions on such a heated topic. Even if we cannot prove how many disc golfers consume marijuana, we can definately prove that it is a relevant topic to our sport and has affected many courses, golfers, tournaments, etc...I really appreciate all of you that have spoken your mind without making a fake screen name to hide behind like some kind of chickensh** ******* :o, if you have an opinion, voice it and stand up for yourself. No one is here to prosecute you for your views, this is America and you're entitled and have nothing to fear. :p

I'm really glad to see how many people have posted here voicing their opinions on such a heated topic. Even if we cannot prove how many disc golfers consume marijuana, we can definately prove that it is a relevant topic to our sport and has affected many courses, golfers, tournaments, etc...I really appreciate all of you that have spoken your mind without making a fake screen name to hide behind like some kind of chickensh** ******* :o, if you have an opinion, voice it and stand up for yourself. No one is here to prosecute you for your views, this is America and you're entitled and have nothing to fear. :p



I'm really glad that you like weed so much dam hippie. Wait a min. I'm not glad that people smoke pot especially disc golfer and most of all the one that complain about the lack of sponsorship or the growth of the sport or the ones that ask for a solution that does not envolve them putting down there weed.
If you don't like weed, you don't have a problem the ones smoking it do. All it takes is for one disc golfer to go to the cops and bam to bad for all those Hippies sitting in the drunk tank with Buba.

In the few years that I have been following this discussion board, the topic of marijuana use has been debated quite a few times. It's always amazed me that the 'users' who claim that the drug makes them 'mellow' and 'peaceful' are always the ones that get the most aggressive, condemning, and vulgar in their arguments.

The fact of the matter is this: No matter how you feel about it, whether you think the laws are unwarranted, silly, unscientific, whatever...The use of marijuana, in public or in private, at events or during casual play, by anyone, at anytime...IS ILLEGAL! Now you may choose to flaunt the law, to exercise 'civil disobedience,' to demean others for choosing to follow the rules and policies of the country, state, and the PDGA. If just ONE disc golf course is lost because of your selfish behavior, if just ONE event is tarnished because you can't leave it at home, if just ONE potential player is turned away from the sport because you lit up in the wrong place...then YOU are guilty, YOU are responsible, YOU have ruined it for all the rest of us.

There is NO place in this sport for drug use. If you choose to be a 'user,' then do it at home, away from the course, the park, the events. Don't do it in your car, in the restroom, in the bushes, behind the dumpster...GO HOME. And if you just can't go three hours without it, then accept your addiction and choose another activity.

This is a relevant topic. It's relevant to the point that areas of our sport are threatened by it. Some people can't see that, some people don't care. But many more do than not. Enough that I think there would be support for a lifetime ban of anyone DQ'ed from a sanctioned event for violation. What do you love more? Disc golf or dope?

Given the perception, it is obvious we have a problem



Agreed. Which is why I don't understand the poll - it's already obvious that we have a problem. /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Where's the solution?



the solution is simple, be honest about drugs and what they can cant do. have legit drug education. base things off of science and fact, not propaganda.



Jamy, I'd be curious to find out where you are finding your science and fact. MAPS clearly has an agenda, so even if they do support science, they are also playing the propaganda game. The fact is there isn't a ton of conclusive evidence of the beneficial effects of marijuana or the adverse effects, though studies of both can be found if you search hard enough in the right places (the MAPS website not being one of those places, since one could likely find an anti-marijuana website that would also list "unbiased" studies). If we claim that the law against marijuana use is not based on science, we should also admit that the reasons for legalizing marijuana use are also not scientific. In order to give "legit drug education", we need to know more.

This just kills me. Until such time as pot is legalized this should not even be an issue. Smoking pot on a disc golf course is just as illegal as it would be if you lit up in the mall. It's against the law. By doing it you are risking losing courses that someone spent hours of time and thousands of dollars installing. This really should be a no-brainer.
And smokers swear it doesn't impair their thinking.

Lifetime bans? Thats a little overboard.

Seriously, even alcoholics are given 2nd and 3rd chances by THE MAN after multiple DUIs.

Seriously, even alcoholics are given 2nd and 3rd chances by THE MAN after multiple DUIs.



That's probably the worst argument you could've chosen.

Overboard ?

The offense is disrespect.
for the law,
for the course,
for the neighborhood,
for the rules,
for the sport,
for the other players
and especially for the TD and his efforts.

Alcohol is a drug that when used in an unlawful way jeopardizes the LIVES of other people. And still these people who put my and your life and the lives of your family members in danger when getting behind the wheel under the influence - these people are granted re-preive - they are given their licences back - they are allowed to reform themselves once they have re-pented for their wrong doing.

I used to be addicted to ciggs, but I was able to overcome that addiction.

All I'm saying is that a lifetime ban is suggestive that a person who is once a smoker is always a smoker and I think people can and do change for the better.

I agree that a lifetime ban is not appropriate.

I was just trying to make another point with out getting into the length of suspension.

And I won't get into DUIs here. Too many people I used to know that would still be alive if they or the other driver didn't get their licences back.

Belive it or not, I think a lifetime ban is too long too.

But on that subject, I think 3 months is not long enough.

But maybe short bans will help players make the calls. A TD can not be everywhere. Players have to turn these guys who discrespect the TDs in.

A lifetime ban would make it hard for some pleople to make that call. Shoot, just the DQ makes it hard for some to make the call.

I think Rhett made the best point about going to city hall and smoking out. (or better yet, the state capital)

OK, maybe lifetime is a bit harsh for a first offense, but an increasing scale (6 months, 1 year, 5 years, 10 years) is altogether appropriate. If someone can't figure it out by then.......

I think Rhett made the best point about going to city hall and smoking out. (or better yet, the state capital)


now thats funny pd
not that i smoke anymore but when i did i got arrested more then a few times for smoking pot and it wasn't because i was on the steps of city hall.i almost got arrested at the phoenix airport with a once of the cronic stuffed down my pants.i don't think anyone who plays discgolf and gets high has that much testiculure fortitude to do something like that for thier cause
i vote for one year as a ban

so would these bans, be the same for ANY drug?

1 year ban sounds fair to me too.
I think this should apply to Drug OR Alchohol use. They are both drugs, and thay are both disallowed during tournament play.

The difference between drugs & booze is that booze can be legally consumed at some disc golf venues (before the 2 minute warning & after the cards are turned in of course), it is always illegal to have drugs.

As a disclaimer, I don't drink while playing (I suck enough thank you) and I don't drink in parks where it's banned so I'm not one of those "the PDGA took my beer away" guys.

I think that it should be an upward scale of punishment, 6 months for 1st offense, 1 year for 2nd, 3rd offense lifetime ban, similar to the NFL. Let's clean the tournaments up, you never know how many kids might start playing because of Wendy's happy meals ;)

Whenever we focus on a specific substance, like marijuana, we corrupt efforts to be consistent in protecting our sport from harmful chemical substances because we are indulging, ourselves, in a culture war. (Everyone else against "hippies" - and you folks know that I am not a hippie.)

From my perspective, if someone gets engaged in an anti-drug crusade and is not as equally concerned about the alcohol and tobacco abuse on our courses - whether or not legal - as they are about marijuana, it's a culture war issue and not a serious attempt to address the problems.

Further, any efforts to address such abuse with sanctions like suspension or DQing should equally address underage tobacco use, underage drinking, and alcohol use by anyone in parks where it is illegal. Including, such as at Hudson Mills next weekend, folks, *anyone* drinking alcohol in the parking area as opposed to in designated, very focused "picnic areas."

Picking and choosing the circumstances under which you "call a rule" is like deciding you're going to watch for foot faults by someone you don't like but deliberately ignore them when they're done by a friend. Or, maybe only call foot faults on people wearing sandals but not on people wearing sneakers.

Our current rules and TD agreements make it exactly as illegal for all those offenses, as well as for prescription drug abuse, littering, and damage to the course. A focus on just one substance betrays a cultural bias and a front in a culture war, where that war seems somehow more important to the complainant than is the game of disc golf.

I am so glad that I took the time to write that last post. Afterwards, I found myself thinking intensely about what I think is one of the problems with our rules situation about illegal substances anyway, which is the issue of "proof."

In doing so, I think I have come up with a change that can be implemented for next year that should make the proof issue easier for TDs. It's a new idea to me, so I am not set on it, but would be interested in quality feedback and comments. Here it is: Base the TD DQing a player for illegal substances (which includes underage tobacco, marijuana, and *any* alcohol in a sanctioned event on posession instead of use. Posession is a heck of a lot easier to prove.

At least once in the past year I was in a group finishing a round and while we were adding up our scorecards, another player in the group took out a container of PDGA-banned substance, and I had to remind him that we had not yet turned in our card and that ingestion of what he had out would require me to report him to the TD. Our rules about DQ for such read "including the illegal consumption of drugs or alcohol." If that was changed to "posession of" then I could have reported him right then and there without ambiguity.

Comments?

Base the TD DQing a player for illegal substances (which includes underage tobacco, marijuana, and *any* alcohol in a sanctioned event on posession instead of use. Posession is a heck of a lot easier to prove.




Should read "possesion and/or consumption". Hard to prove possession if they consumed all they had on the course.

I am in favor of a possesion rule. That way, even if they don't light up, they can still be DQ'd for getting it out.

But what about an unopened can of beer the player is saving for after the round. Would the rule state that this is not legal?

I think it would almost have to be. Even though pot is illegal in both circumstances and alcohol is not, I think it would be hypocritical to allow one to be carried on the course and not the other. I don't think the possesion rule would go over too well. Just think how many times people forget they have a beer in their bag(or say a roach for that matter), they go to get a towel out of their bag and it falls out. This would not be intentionally breaking the rule but would still be a DQ offense. Another situation I just thought of is if a player had an EMPTY pipe in their bag(the police consider that paraphernalia) and another had an empty beer can in his bag(think about the new open container laws here in TX)????? It just seems that a possesion rule would be highly debatable.

my 2cents

how many players are eating prescription drugs not prescribed to them???? Now bring back the alcohol :D

The thing I oppose about Terry's "Culture War" take on all of this is....

That we can't start anywhere under that philosophy. We can't target our biggest image problem first? We have to take on cigarettes and minors with full force if we want to take pot off the course? By that logic we can't start calling foot-faults unless we are ready to start be equally vigilant about 30-second calls. By that we can't call penalties on practice throws unless we call it everytime the scorekeeper doesn't call back a score.

I don't see it that way. I think we should tackle the "worst for sport" things first, and then slowly move towards actually using the rule book to govern play. Right now it isn't even close, and I don't think a heavy-handed "every rule right now" approach will work.


BTW, there is a big difference between a legal unopened beer and an illegal bag of unsmoked dope. They do not have to be treated the same. And I don't drink, either!

BTW, there is a big difference between a legal unopened beer and an illegal bag of unsmoked dope.



But if alcohol is illegal in the park wouldn't "possesing" either one of them still be the same thing??? This is what I mean by a "possesion" rule being very open to debate.

how many players are eating prescription drugs not prescribed to them???? Now bring back the alcohol :D



Sorry, I forgot to respond to Seehorse........You really don't need beer during a round. Just start by slamming 5 or 6 before the 2 minute warning and you'll be fine....except for that terrible headache that sets in on the 12th hole :( :D Besides those 500++ drives don't do you much good if they're in the [*****] :D

BTW, I don't smoke, so I'm not just defending that view.

watch it my "LITTLE *****" hey is Pepper's wife still working for the hotel?

Yes she is.....Why you need a room for you and your boyfriend??? :D:D:D

How pleasant to have a virtual discussion without a lot of name calling. Thanks, Rhett, I would enjoy having you in our board meetings.

I understand your take on this, but I think that saying that dope smoking is "our biggest image problem" is reflective of your own cultural perspective. It is not my perspective. Someone else might think that the poor quality of clothing by our players is the biggest image problem. Another person might say it is all the low-income "riff-raff" who play that is the biggest problem. (Me, I don't apply the riff-raff term, that's just me trying to get into the head of people who di exist but whose thought processes are so different from mine that it's hard to think like them, and think that the wide, egalitarian acceptance of all sorts of players is maybe the biggest positive image issue for disc golf.) am confident that a professional public relations firm would study the sport and probably disagree with both of us about what is really our biggest public image problem. That is why I say it's a cultural war thing.

In fact, the biggest shock I have had in the nearly 6 years I have been playing was coming across the then-world champ at the DGLO a few years ago, playing guts and chain smoking tobacco. (I'm not saying he's a bad person for doing this - we all know he's a great guy - just explaining a different perspective than yours.) To me, it diminishes the sport terribly as an athletic endeavor to see top players smoking cigarettes while they putt out in final nines, which I have seen many times in the past year, even within the past month.

From my cultural perspective, the open tobacco smoking is far more of an image problem than the (mostly) hidden weed smoking. I would call that a bigger image problem than marijuana, because it's most often seen by the public and by younger players, and is part of an industry that ends up killing tens of thousands of people a year.

You have to look hard to find dope smoking at a major event this year. (I look, every time I play, and haven't seen any yet this year.) But you don't have to do anything more than walk across the course to see tobacco smoking.

Of course, most of the people smoking tobacco are doing so legally, but that, to me, means nothing in relation to the "image" problem. And we all know that cigarette butts are one of the major litter problems at most courses, maybe the major litter problem.

We, the PDGA, have a legitimate interest in substance abuse under two circumstances, I think:

(a) For image issues, in which case it would be legitimate to require competitors to sign agreements to not act in a whole host of ways involving a lot more than visible substance abuse, especially if and when we get television coverage going again.

(b) For competitive issues, if and when we have evidence that there are substances which enhance performance in our sport. (Not an issue with marijuana smoking, despite the beliefs of some indulgers.) And when we get to that point, as ultimate is about to as it pushes to get into the Olympics, watch out for the resources and energy it will take to manage!

I do not think (c) that we are responsible for enforcing all of the laws (as opposed to definitely we should not encourage law breaking) of the societies that we live in during our tournaments, because in trying to do so our TDs and staff - to not be engaged in culture wars by picking the individual behaviors they themselves find personally most annoying - might find themselves watching the stop sign at the entrance to Hudson Mills to be sure that players don't run it on the way to the tournament, or monitoring the parking lot to ensure that everyone is parked evenly inside the yellow lines, and running background checks and refusing to let players convicted of felonies play in sanctioned tournaments. (Not to mention the fact that it can reasonably be argued that the professional payout portion of many tournaments constitutes illegal gambling in several states, an opinion I respect and am studying carefully. If we care that much about legality, shall we also talk about the legal status of the bulk of the revenues and expenditures relating to tournaments in light of IRS regulations?)

None of the above should be taken to indicate that as a player, a board member, an official, and a marshall, I am soft on any part of rules implementation. I am not, and I will not be. If our rules forbid "possession" then the player mentioned in a previous post would have, within a short time of my seeing his forbidden substance, been DQd, even though he's a nice guy and I like him.

Just a quick one here about possession.

Marijuana and its possession are illegal. Illegal activities are DQ-able during a tourney. Only substance consumption is auto-DQ. So illegal possession of controlled substances is absolutely DQ-able (just not an "auto-DQ") under our current rules, and no change is needed.

Possession of a sealed alcoholic beverage by an adult is not illegal. Some parks don't allow consumption, and an open container is indicative of consumption. A sealed container is not illegal and thus not against PDGA rules. If glass containers are illegal in the park then possession of a bottle would be DQ-able, but that would be any bottle not just booze.

We, the PDGA, have a legitimate interest in substance abuse under two circumstances, I think:

(a) For image issues, in which case it would be legitimate to require competitors to sign agreements to not act in a whole host of ways involving a lot more than visible substance abuse, especially if and when we get television coverage going again.

(b) For competitive issues, if and when we have evidence that there are substances which enhance performance in our sport. (Not an issue with marijuana smoking, despite the beliefs of some indulgers.) And when we get to that point, as ultimate is about to as it pushes to get into the Olympics, watch out for the resources and energy it will take to manage!

I do not think (c) that we are responsible for enforcing all of the laws (as opposed to definitely we should not encourage law breaking) of the societies that we live in during our tournaments, because in trying to do so our TDs and staff - to not be engaged in culture wars by picking the individual behaviors they themselves find personally most annoying - might find themselves watching the stop sign at the entrance to Hudson Mills to be sure that players don't run it on the way to the tournament, or monitoring the parking lot to ensure that everyone is parked evenly inside the yellow lines, and running background checks and refusing to let players convicted of felonies play in sanctioned tournaments. (Not to mention the fact that it can reasonably be argued that the professional payout portion of many tournaments constitutes illegal gambling in several states, an opinion I respect and am studying carefully. If we care that much about legality, shall we also talk about the legal status of the bulk of the revenues and expenditures relating to tournaments in light of IRS regulations?)

None of the above should be taken to indicate that as a player, a board member, an official, and a marshall, I am soft on any part of rules implementation. I am not, and I will not be. If our rules forbid "possession" then the player mentioned in a previous post would have, within a short time of my seeing his forbidden substance, been DQd, even though he's a nice guy and I like him.



the term abuse, should be USE. because abuse is entire other concept. misuse could be used in some cases, but the overall term should be use. use/misuse/abuse are three different concepts, sadly, those in the goverment, inner-changed the terms, that the masses have come to think all three mean the same thing. (there is documented proof of this, look into early drug czars : ie reagan years)

as for performance inhancing drugs, any drug, can have a subjective effect on someone, and for some, that effect may be viewed as helping the game.

1 could argue, that the relaxing effects of marijuana, causes a player to be more relaxed, and with a relaxed body, one has more control over it, thus allowing for greater disc control.

now is that the norm for most, no. because its a subjective high. what we define as inhancement, needs to be defined in detail maybe.

other then that, well thought out post thank you

I do know of at least one person who actively engages in steroid use. Will this be addressed?
If you guys are serious you need to consider where a line will be drawn?

If a club kid pulls an all-nighter after the tournament party and acts like a complete [*****] during Sundays rounds as the drugs leave his system, will this be considered? Technically if it is in your body you are in possession and under the influence.

I would use caution when the can of worms is bigger than the the crowd around to catch them when they fly out.

There are some legal issues to consider in relation to this topic.

I think we could go along way in improving our image by first addressing behavior in general rather than trying to judge people by their habits (legal and otherwise).

Sue Anne Beym
GA

Well said......I played Peoria this weekend and didnt see a bag of grass during the 3 rounds ,while practicing or in the park period.I think you all making a big deal of this because of your own beliefs and not just for the better of the pdga.Thats 3 or 4 tourneys this year like that.

I do know of at least one person who actively engages in steroid use. Will this be addressed?
If you guys are serious you need to consider where a line will be drawn?

If a club kid pulls an all-nighter after the tournament party and acts like a complete [*****] during Sundays rounds as the drugs leave his system, will this be considered? Technically if it is in your body you are in possession and under the influence.

I would use caution when the can of worms is bigger than the the crowd around to catch them when they fly out.

There are some legal issues to consider in relation to this topic.

I think we could go along way in improving our image by first addressing behavior in general rather than trying to judge people by their habits (legal and otherwise).

Sue Anne Beym
GA



along the same lines, our bodies produce a schld 1 drug on its on called DMT. a "psychedelic. your brain produces it 24/7. this means we all are in possiion of a illegal drug.

now what hmmmmm. if your gonna go ahead with these witch hunts, one must be honest and hunt any and all drug users .

While there is some merit to Sue Ann and Jamy's arguments there are some very important points missed. Sue is correct addressing general behavior is key. I assume that is why the PDGA has taken direct action to nip unruly behavior in the bud and has started the marshal program. But unruly behavior is only part of the story.

Some things are really clear, if I see a guy with a lid, it�s a lid. I'm not into checking out his internal status, nor can I. The same goes for a minor smoking or someone lifting a beer in a park with a no beer policy. Semantics are nice but we are talking clear-cut rules with clear-cut observations. When a family sees any one of the above three things they don't have to speculate. On the other hand if they see someone on drugs they might think gee that guys acting like a putz, might he be on drugs? But they can't know. Cleaning up our image means dealing with obvious issues not speculative ones.

I proffer another solution. One rule. No drinking during rounds. The rest is easy. A TD sees you smoking pot and instead of DQing you, he/she obeys the law and calls a cop. The same goes for drinking in non-alcoholic parks and underage smoking. Simple enough. You can argue civil liberties with the police. (Please don�t come back and tell me that I belong in the Gestapo, I don�t advocate this I�m just telling the drug users that while the PDGA is treating them with regard, they�re treating the PDGA with distain.)

Obviously this isn't the route the PDGA wants to take. What they want is for players to care enough about the sport they profess to love to treat it in a way that won't get TDs in trouble and that won't get courses taken out. It�s not a lot to ask.

Steroid use - well, we flat out don't have the means. Again, this isn't something we can easily observe and act on. On the other hand I don't much care. The knowledge that this person is changing their body in a way that is going to do permanent damage and possibly give them cancer makes me feel sorry for them. If they beat me in a tourney and make a few bucks out of it, I figure they've more than paid; the PDGA doesn't need to DQ them.

Gee whiz Mr. Wizard, our bodies make hormones? Should that be compared to illegal drug use? Don't you think you're reaching just a bit Jamy? Let me give you an example. Our bodies make a hormone called EPO. EPO stimulates red blood cell development. We all have it. Athletes in endurance sports like to shoot high levels of EPO into their bodies so they can produce lots of RBCs and hence take up more oxygen and perform better. EPO is O.K. Enhanced EPO is not. Nobody, I repeat, nobody thinks natural EPO is bad or should be illegal. Everyone agrees enhanced levels are illegal. So, I'm sure that the American Medical Association will be glad to set your fears at rest, your internal level of DMT is healthy and perfectly O.K.

I just love when people how are guilty try to point the finger at someone else. With the term look there doing something worse than I am (like when someone gets pulled over for speeding and tells the cop that he should out capturing killer's and rapist.) As, with this topic of pot smoking and many people pointing the finger at cigarette smokers or beer drinkers (both legal) or pointing it at under aged D/S (which I bet most pot smokers used to do while picking up the habit of smoking pot). The hole point of this is to get the word out that there is a problem with illegal substance in the sport of disc golf and in the society it self not just disc golf the only problem with that is any thing that has to do with a disc is automatically liked to the free living hippie of yester year, and thus with drug use.

P.S. steroids make people muscular and bulky and how many world champions or could have been world camps if we didn't have Climo and of the bulky build. It looks like tall and lanky is the way to go for disc golf.

I use steroids. They make me throw farther.
I can throw almost 350' since I started using them back in '79

LOOK OUT CLIMO, HERE I COME!

Well said......I played Peoria this weekend and didnt see a bag of grass during the 3 rounds ,while practicing or in the park period.I think you all making a big deal of this because of your own beliefs and not just for the better of the pdga.Thats 3 or 4 tourneys this year like that.



I've seen what was probably marijiana at every tourament I've played this year, including Peoria. At Peoria I was ready to say, "Actually I do mind, because this is a sanctioned A-tier and I'm both a PDGA official and a state coordinator, so I really have to insist that we play by the rules." Instead I had to use that speech when one member in my group suggested that we not bother holing out from less than 3 feet! :D

I'm trying to think at which tournaments I did not see what was probably marijuana use during tournament play. None come to mind.

I guess that's a bad thing. I play a few tournaments every year. 15 so far this year. I haven't seen it brought once inthe OMB division, but have heard at one event that my name was being discussed as a person not to bring it up around.

Maybe it's just that my reputation preceeds me, but I haven't personally had to deal with it in over a year now.

I know what you mean Gary, there is not one person in Texas who's name comes up more on this subject that mine. I have not had to even think about making the call in the few tournaments that I have played, but I have seen guys hiding it from me too.

The cool thing is those that support the cleaning up of the sport in Texas have been telling me that it is on the decline. To the point that several have said they hardly ever see it anymore. (far cry from the days of never not seeing it)

To me, everything I put myself into and everything I did to help the cause was worth it.

Disc golf had grown by leaps and bounds in Texas. Not just because several of us attacked the subject, but because attacking the subject opened the doors for others to follow suit. We have players playing tournament that would have been scared off by the actions of the "hippie" golfer.

I think the best thing is seeing the guys who choose to "smoke" not do it at the course anymore. They will take a little ride away from the course nowdays. That just shows respect for there TD and other players.

Well that is what Ive seen (Or Not} at the tourneys Ive played and considering I have 2 foot long dreadlocks and almost every stoner in the world gravitates toward me{which I dont mind:they dont look at me like a dirty hippie that some of you would} To not see any grass during rounds is pretty impressive.Honestly ,do you think people would not pull it out with me being on thier card?

This has been an interesting discussion and I wanted to throw in my two cents. For the record, I don't smoke pot. It does not enhance my performance in any way and I feel slow mentally for a few days afterwards (Youthful behavior in college led to these observations). I do drink occasionally and a beer after a round is great. I tend to spill my beer when I try to play golf and drink and end up not enjoying the beer or round as much as I want to.

Pot is an issue in disc golf, but it is an issue everywhere. There are many who smoke pot socially in any group of people and if they happen to play disc golf they will smoke up on the course too. I have been very surprised at the number of functions and the wide variety of people who have at one time or another offered me pot�and I don�t look like your stereotypical pot-smoker and most of them did not either. I do think that people who like to be outside (fishermen, hikers, snowboarders/skiers, disc golfers, etc.) tend to smoke up more than others.

My general opinion on causal pot smoking is live and let live. Don�t get upset at me or think I�m some sort of square because I choose not to partake. Many of the guys in my club do smoke up but they don�t offer me anymore which works out just fine. However, if your job relates to the security of people (truck driver, bus driver, the guy working the backhoe while I�m digging in a ditch) I�d really appreciate it if you didn�t smoke. I don�t want to suffer for a stupid action on your part, just like I don�t want a drunk driving my students (I teach high school). Drugs and alcohol do affect how you do things and if don�t care about your score, I don�t care because I�ll beat you and take your tag. But if you put people in danger it�s another deal. That includes putting my home course in danger or the tournaments I run. If I hear there is a public perception here that disc golfers smoke pot and it will affect my course, I will be more vigilant about asking people not to smoke up on the course. But for now, it�s not a problem so I�m not going to make an issue of it.

I do have two things that bother me regarding disc golfers and pot smoking. While driving on the highway last month, a guy passed me in a truck and held up a disc and waved. I have some stickers on my tailgate so he knew I was a disc golfer and I thought it was kinda of cool. We both got of the same exit and he followed me to Burger King and after a few minutes of discussion with me and my wife, he asked if he could buy some pot. My wife was pretty taken aback by the request but was cool enough while I explained I did not smoke. He was obviously disappointed and left pretty quickly. I was bummed to have to assure my wife that I did not smoke but that a lot of golfers did. I�m trying to get her interested but this turned her off.

Second, I have seen a lot of pot smoking during tournaments this year, mostly among the pros since I moved up from advanced after last season. While I do not have to worry about a lot of the smaller rule infractions, it�s a tough call to make on the course. It would not be much fun to play at tournaments over the next few years with people knowing I was the one who turned in �so-and-so�. I just want to play golf and enjoy the people I play with. Usually that�s what I do and I accept that some people will be high while I play with them. I did appreciate that my tournament, last weekend, no one smoked in front of me because I would have DQ-ed them since I was one of the two TDs. Maybe that�s why they did not make it obvious.

It�s a tough call. In my perfect world, I wish people would not smoke up or drink during tourneys. To me, it�s a matter of respect for the game and the people who put in the time and effort to throw them. If you can�t play a round without smoking, don�t play tourneys. If you want to break the law (even if you don�t agree with it) while playing CASUAL rounds, please be discreet and lay off the newer (and younger golfers) for a while so we don�t turn them off. Disc golf is a great sport/activity so I hope people do their best to keep the public�s perception as positive as possible.

Max

I would just like to say that I never encouraged smoking up during tournaments or even at the courses. I was responding to people who were particapating in culture wars fed off of misinformation and hate. I do dream of the day that I can walk down the street and legally participate in a vital function of my culture, but until then I do respect the need to keep disc golf separate from that culture as it is a fledgling sport and has much different obstacles to surmount.
For those of you who hate me and call me names because I grew up in a different way than you and for those of you who tell me just go home and do it while hundreds of thousands of your fellow citizens go to jail for exactly that, all I can say is grow up.

Nope, I want to see how many consume marijuana, plain and simple. I don't care if they do it in their closet, under a sheet, through a blow-tube during a full-moon while whistling dixie. The point is, how many golfers are marijuana consumers. I should however clarify that it is not how many HAVE smoked, but how many DO smoke. /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

<font color="red"> And how many will admit in a public place that they smoke? And why would anyone vote since it is illegal in this country and gets you to jail... do we want our events to be raided? By law it can not be permitted, period so what is the discussion really about... should we tattletale on each other? Do others feel in the disadvantage to play against a stoner? OK, what is the real issue here??????</font>

The real issue is respect.

Respect for the rules.
Respect for the TD.
Respect for all of the volunteers that made the course possible.
Respect for others that are at the tourney and would like to see the rules abided by.

You are not at home, you are a guest of the TD at a sanctioned event.

Act accordingly and respectfully.

Thats Right.Do what you want on your own time,dont ruin it for anyone else.And to all you freedom fighters out there...Have you served time for your acts? Have you ever had your door kicked in at 7am to wake up to machine guns in your face?I have! And after years of being public about my choices and having people stand by me that ACTED like they cared about the people going down,how they would help out if something went wrong I was ON MY OWN! SOLD OUT and RATTED on by the people who I heard complain about the poor lost souls rotting in jail for growing/holding grass.What I learned is the law revolves around money,if you have it buy your way out,if you dont you will be alone with your problems and a cellmate.Be smart.Be private.Dont bring attention to yourself at a Tourney smoking dope.Getting DQed is the least that can happen.You want to change legislation join NORML.

Wow, I just got through reading all of this and I'd say that in the years of posting on this board, starting, participating and reading numerous discussions on the subject, this thread is...

...another one. :)

Many good points have been raised by so many people that I find it hard to single them out or quote their posts here (although I will say that TBender, Idaho, Gary, Terry, Rhett and yes, even Pizza are among them).

One thing I would like to hammer home is that this board, while a viable way to share information and opinions, is not the place where the action happens. It happens on the course and its taken by you!

I am proud of the fact that after many message board debates, I found the courage and conviction to actually do something about this situation. A couple of years ago, I was one of the two principals involved in a situation during a tourney that was one of a few cases that led directly to the famous "policy change."

To some people, that makes me an ******* (and not one that ends in a temp basket) and to others it makes me look like a hero of this cause.

I am neither (although some would go with the former assessment based on other reasons :) ). I am a player, deeply in love with the sport of disc golf, and vastly more concerned with it and with its growth than I am in what is or isn't harmful scientifically, what should or should not be legal socially or what does or does not make me friends with everyone I know.

The bottom line is this: If you love and respect the sport and the people who want to see it grow for its own merit, make the call. If you do make the call, you are one of these people, if you don't, you are not. Its really that simple.

I woud have thought the majority vote would have been a lot higher. like 95%.

How about the PDGA test for THC at every tournament and ban for life anyone that test positive.

I am sure a new competing golf association would pop up shortly after and lead to the demise of the PDGA.

someone should start a new golf association anyway!!! :D:D:D:D

This is just another old, dead thread Schweb posted on to add to his post total. There is nothing new here. Move along now...

This is just another old, dead thread Schweb posted on to add to his post total. There is nothing new here. Move along now...



wow ppl kill me who realy cares as long as it does not affect you..

This is just another old, dead thread Schweb posted on to add to his post total. There is nothing new here. Move along now...



wow ppl kill me who realy cares as long as it does not affect you..

If I cant smoke my weed during rounds (I dont for the record) then I dont want to see Cigs or Booze during my rounds either. Ya Ya but weeds illegal. There is a long deep history as to why weed is illegal in our society and Im not going to get into that, but in other words its no more harmful then alcohal when used responsibly. I agree if we want our sport to be taken more seriously then we need to not only enforce weed rulesw but beer and cigs.

I got another question kind of related. THe Government in its RE-CRIMINLAIZATION of Marijuana in Canada (thats right its not getting legalized folks!!!!!) had to erase the old laws for about a month making weed in Ontario temperarilly legal due to the removal of the old law. Can I smoke weed during my rounds if one is smoking tobacoo??

Honestly I have had only problems with Tobaco smokers on the course and I have played with people drinking, toking, snorting, and tobacooing. I threatened to rat a guy out for throwing butts on his own course in a tourny--******* :( . Personally I dont care what you do in a round as long as the public does not see it and it does not bother me.

To all these 'law enforcers'...do you call the cops when you see someone jaywalking as well? By you're logic you should. Or is it just when it 'affects' you?

What a dumb topic. This is all just rumors, I have never seen or heard of a disc golfer who has ever smoked pot!

What is pot? :confused:

How do you smoke a pot? /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Once again, this thread is back.This is to discourage the banter on the Drive thread.Casual players are always going to be a problem at the course.At school I have told a few people I play DG and they are suprised to find out that there is a PDGA and that there are tournaments.Some even act suprised that people actually worked to get those baskets in the ground.They act as if they mysteriously appeared.All they can say is "Yeah, we go out and puff and drink and play."I still feel that this is not what is holding this sport back,nor is drinking,and no matter how many times its said,it WILL NOT STOP.Like it or not the mass majority does smoke grass.When people do something fun, for enjoyment,that is for the most part free,they will do as they wish.My focus on the subject has always been to discourage it during tournament rounds.Im sorry, but its not a TDs business to babysit between rounds and if someone wants to go for a ride or smoke a bowl between rounds on the grounds, then that is thier decision.I think what is important is to drill into thier heads that advertising what they are doing is silly,and because its illegal they are risking the course.Im not much of a drinker,but one thing is for sure,I dont have to pick up roaches and cashed bowls nearly as much as beer cans and beer bottles.I do what I do in as much privacy as possible,but my apperance makes that hard.Im not saying Im perfect at this or anything,I try to use common sense and promote my views but what annoys me is the fact that everyone acts as if PDGA members are the sole responsibilty.Rec players are at fault for most of disc golf problems{ vandalism,smoking grass,drinking,basket theft,litter,underage everything} and if you hope to curve this,start with the Reccers,the posters seem to have a grasp on this,besides arguing thier points it sounds as if we are on the same page.I probaly would NOT report you to a TD.I will back up the offended,but I do not tattle.Im not knocking those who will, Im just not that kind of a person.

I concur...