...a person ask a rule at any time while playing during a tournament (such as if they can take relief, etc.). I've only been playing for a year, but I am going to train this winter (play all holes as 3, no muligans, serious practice, etc) but I am unsure of the rules sometimes (such as what's out of bounds, when to dock a stroke for edicate rules, etc.) and I'm wondering if in a tournament, a TD is always present to ask questions. If not, do you guys recommend tagging along at tournaments to learn? I've never been to a tournament to tell the truth.

First of all, pick up a rulebook and become familiar with the rules. They are about 3 dollars and if you join the PDGA, they send you one for free.

Second of all, you can't assume that the people in your group will know the correct rules. I have been to tourniments where people in my group had no clue that you could or couldn't do a certain thing. This happens a lot with Intermediate AMs.

I am familiar with the rules enough where I know when something is illegal. I just have to look up the number of penalty strokes certain offenses are.

TD aren't always around to help you.

Kelly,

Step 1) Click the "Pro Shop" Link above.
Step 2) Purchase a PDGA Rules of Play book ($3 I think). (You can also just read them from the "Rules" link above also, though having the book while you play is way better.)
Step 3) When you get it, read it 3 times (very tiny book) cover to cover. I do this every year when I get my PDGA membership package.
Step 4) Ask questions. Here on the message board, of other players, and even the PDGA Rules Committee. There are no dumb questions, but always try to get answers first from the rulebook.
Step 5) Make a conscious effort to follow the rules when you practice.
Step 6) Make a conscious effort to observe other players and whether they follow the rules or not.
Step 7) Make Knowing, Following and Calling the rules a natural part of your game.

Good luck and keep us updated on your progress.

Regards,
Nick

Double this advice.

I have been on cards where players used the rules to their advantage. Rules are your friend if you know them.

Yes, by all means, if something looks fishy to you, don't take the word of some player just because they have been playing longer than you, check the rulebook. If not to make the call, so that the next time this comes up you know the correct ruling right away...

your only ignorant if you don't listin to kick's advise

very wise owl that one :D

Likewise, don't take the word of some poster just because their posts are longer than yours, check the rulebook. :)

Kelly,

It has come to my attention that my response to you could sound stand offish, I didn't intend for it to. Use or not use the advice as you see fit. Learning our rules is an ongoing process, I've been playing for 24 years and I am still learning new things all the time, and as anyone can tell you I still ask plenty of questions.

I have nothing but respect for your desire to be prepared for play at PDGA events with a working knowledge of our rules of play. It seems strange to me that knowing the rules to a certain level is not required, I mean how many other sports are their where there is no expectation that participants know the rules of the game?

Anyhow, hang in there and don't pay these message board whiners no nevermind.

Regards,
Nick

Thanks Nick (and everyone else). I just want to have fun and play by the rules. I don't like people who cheat, and likewise I like to play by the rules so that anything I accomplish is legit.

Tournaments are more fun when everyone knows and abides by the same rules.

We all started at the same place, not knowing the rules. It's another aspect of the game to learn.

The test to become an offical only costs $10, and is open book. A good value for a self-paced advancement.

It seems strange to me that knowing the rules to a certain level is not required, I mean how many other sports are their where there is no expectation that participants know the rules of the game?

I totally agree. I think there should be a rule that all advanced and pro players pass the current officials exam (in order to play in a PDGA event). TDs and TOs would then have to pass a supplementary exam (covering the process of running a tourney, forms, round ratings, etc.).

Sounds good to me, but make it 4 levels starting with the current test as an adv/pro players test.

A few more Q&A and gray area questions for the Officials test.
Add some administrative and web stuff for an online Directors test.
And then some political and crowd control training for the Marshal's test.

1) A Players test.
2) An officials test.
3) A Director test.
4) A Marshalls test.

There are very few sports where the players know all of the rules and I think many would laugh out loud at the idea of taking a test to play. As a former basketball offical, I can tell you that people who are respected coaches don't even know all of the rules and will never be tested on them.

Now, this has nothing to do with the fact that I believe every player should know the rules. Someone mentioned above about seeing it in Int. a lot, he11 I see it Adv., so there you go. Knowing the rules is a good thing, keeping a rulebook in your bag is the best thing!!!!

Does anyone think it would help if the PDGA sent everyone an updated rule book with their renewal? Maybe with any changes in a different color, in italics, or in bold?

What good is carrying a rule book if it's from years ago?

Very good idea.

Does anyone think it would help if the PDGA sent everyone an updated rule book with their renewal? Maybe with any changes in a different color, in italics, or in bold?

What good is carrying a rule book if it's from years ago?



I don't think there are enough rule changes per year to merit reprinting each year. 3 to 5 years I think would be good.

Knowing the rules is a good thing, keeping a rulebook in your bag is the best thing!!!!



And being willing to use it is even better.... :)

hey now, you are starting to ask too much Bender!!!! :cool:

Does anyone think it would help if the PDGA sent everyone an updated rule book with their renewal? Maybe with any changes in a different color, in italics, or in bold?

What good is carrying a rule book if it's from years ago?



I received a rule book when I first joined, and when the rules were last revised (ie, a new rulebook came out) I got a new one in the mail.

Does anyone think it would help if the PDGA sent everyone an updated rule book with their renewal? Maybe with any changes in a different color, in italics, or in bold?

What good is carrying a rule book if it's from years ago?



I don't think there are enough rule changes per year to merit reprinting each year. 3 to 5 years I think would be good.



Well how hard would it be to print the new rules on pages small enough to be placed inside the current sized books, with each membership and/ or renewal? Even make them available to print from online, again the same size as the current book. TD's should also have them available at each and every tournement if someone needs one or them, for that matter.

The PDGA Rule book should also contain information concerning Ratings, Gold, Silver, etc courses and other information of that nature.

In this day and age its hard to understand why this is so difficult to do. Delegate the task and follow up and make sure it gets done....the hard part is getting the changes to the rules in the first place, it shouldnt be the disemination of the conclusion. :)

Well how hard would it be to print the new rules on pages small enough to be placed inside the current sized books, with each membership and/ or renewal?

Not difficult at all. The principle difficulties are getting people to (a) take the time to read the changes; (b) add the pages to their rulebook (assuming they know where their rulebooks are) instead of throwing them in the trash; (c) carry their rulebook in their bags; and (d) USE the rulebook.

... TD's should also have them available at each and every tournement if someone needs one or them, for that matter.



If it's a PDGA sanctioned event, the TD is sent several Rule Books with their tournament package. If it's not sanctioned, the TD should have them available anyway for anyone.

My 2 cents :cool:

I was specifically speaking of the rule changes that have taken place since the latest printed version you, I and 99% of the TD's out there have in our posession.

These changes should coded(a), be made available on line, to be printed on normal 8.5x11.5 paper and cut to fit the size of the current book. Of course this takes some dedication on our (players) behalf and being the person that I am, I would have problem in doing this.

While a TD should have books, are they the rules we are currently operating under? If not, dont you think they should be?

Whats going to happen when the PDGA allows the TD to apply the 2m rule when and if they want it? What does taking that one rule out do to the others that are attached to it? Without in-hand answers there will be confusion which will lead to frustration which will lead to not playing anymore.

(a) updated 01-05, First Qtr 05, et al.

Just my .03! :D

They are the latest rules that are given out to the TDs. The change of the 2M rule hasn't occurred yet. The USDGC was a trial case where Harold and Jonathan received authorization to waive the rule, it's not a permanent change yet.

When it becomes a situation like the OB rule, I hope we get new rule books since that is a significant deviation from out latest version, IMHO :)

They are the latest rules that are given out to the TDs. The change of the 2M rule hasn't occurred yet. The USDGC was a trial case where Harold and Jonathan received authorization to waive the rule, it's not a permanent change yet.

When it becomes a situation like the OB rule, I hope we get new rule books since that is a significant deviation from out latest version, IMHO :)



How is it a "significant deviation"?

The only difference is that you do not give a one throw penalty; everything else is identical.

Yeah, it's totally insignificant to pull out the rulebook, read a rule from a year ago, and give a player a stroke for a rule that has been changed. :(

Its signifigant in the fact that everyone has learned to play with 'in the trees = penalty'. In the future, IF the PDGA decides, it will be the TD's call to recognize this rule or not for their event. Dont you think that might confuse the weekend warrior type of player to some degree?

Cute.

Of course the rulebook will be updated when the time comes, but just as in the past, rule changes for PDGA events can happen in advance of the rulebook update.

This is no different from any other change in the past.

Consider:

TD announces the new 2 meter rule is being used at the event. No 2 meter penalties will be incurred.

Player throws a disc that comes to rest above 2 meters. Player marks the lie on the playing surface and plays on, and everyone in the group knows this is correct because they all heard the announcement at the players meeting.

Besides, having the rules spelled out in the rulebook is no guarantee of understanding or compliance; just look at the stance, speed of play, score keeping and courtesy rules...

Besides, having the rules spelled out in the rulebook is no guarantee of understanding or compliance; just look at the stance, speed of play, score keeping and courtesy rules...



Booo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Nick, you are at it again. This is the complete opposite of your arguments about rules on other threads.

I think it is very important for that when someone actually does consult the rule book, they find the real rules. Here is a scenario I wish to avoid:

Player decides that they will start Knowing, Following, and Calling the rules. They consult the rulebook on a situation during a tourney and make the right call per the rule book. When they get back to tourney central the call is over turned because "that rule got changed. No, it's not published anywhere." Player decides calling rules is stupid and never does it agin. :(

Besides, having the rules spelled out in the rulebook is no guarantee of understanding or compliance; just look at the stance, speed of play, score keeping and courtesy rules...



Booo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Nick, you are at it again. This is the complete opposite of your arguments about rules on other threads.

I think it is very important for that when someone actually does consult the rule book, they find the real rules. Here is a scenario I wish to avoid:

Player decides that they will start Knowing, Following, and Calling the rules. They consult the rulebook on a situation during a tourney and make the right call per the rule book. When they get back to tourney central the call is over turned because "that rule got changed. No, it's not published anywhere." Player decides calling rules is stupid and never does it agin. :(



An overreaction from Rhett, what a surprise!

I didn't say that the rules changes should not be put in the rulebook, only that it is not unprecedented that new rules be enforced prior to the rulebook being updated.

Besides, in my example the TD clearly announced the new rule at the Players Meeting.

You are the only person that I know of that has declared that they will never make a rules call again... Making a wrong call is not the end of the world, deciding to never make a call again is, well, an overreaction.

Cute.

Of course the rulebook will be updated when the time comes, but just as in the past, rule changes for PDGA events can happen in advance of the rulebook update.

This is no different from any other change in the past.




Exactly my point as to why the PDGA should implement an electronic form that is an amendum to the current printed version. I know we can all go to the rules area and cut and paste but we shouldnt have to. This is all part of the PDGA making it to the next level. Lead, follow or get out the way!

Cute.

Of course the rulebook will be updated when the time comes, but just as in the past, rule changes for PDGA events can happen in advance of the rulebook update.

This is no different from any other change in the past.




Exactly my point as to why the PDGA should implement an electronic form that is an amendum to the current printed version. I know we can all go to the rules area and cut and paste but we shouldnt have to. This is all part of the PDGA making it to the next level. Lead, follow or get out the way!



Not a bad idea. Have you written to the PDGA with your idea yet? Always include what "you" will do to help accomplish this... these guys are stretched to the limit already remember...

Yes Im aware of their situation. Im sure the governing body will continue to do what they can. I have not yet written them on this subject but intend to.