ssia
horrible.

i have 4 or so of the newest champ teebirds that are fairly clear in blue and purple. these are super-durable, very grippy, and stiff. when snapped hard with very little hyzer--these things go arrow strait for me. they can be turned over or hyzered as well. awesome disc for me. like a durable dx t. [maybe a hair more overstable]

swearing deleted

are they clear or opaque? what color and weight? what do they do [or not do] that you do not like?

red clear
169
dont like the feel of the disc, cant throw it strait, cant seem to get a good anhyzer on it, etc...

i like the opaque ones better

I just purchased a Clear Orange 174g and man is it overstable compared to my Dx 169g TeeBird.

I've only thrown it for a couple of rounds so I haven't tuned into it yet, but I'm looking to try a lighter one in the mid-160's as well.

Just give it a little more time?

I have had quite a few teebirds, and the 166 Champ Orange I puchased this summer just dosn't fly the way I want it to. I can flip most of my teebirds over in a predictible fashion, but this one just straight hyzers. Go figure.

I think they duplicated the mold, supposedly it says "...RANCHO CUCAMONGA CAL" instead of "...CA". Look in the 'Ask Dave' thread. I haven't gotten my hands on one of the T molds yet but the Glow TL is super sweet. Remember that the Teebird was born to fly on a hyzer-flip line; it's OK for annies but it won't fight too hard to come back if you turn it over by mistake.

I never liked the opaque flat KC11X because they had poor glide. If I wanted a firebird, I would've bought a firebird, thank you very much! I do know a sidearmer that liked the flat Teebirds quite a bit so if anyone knows where to get em I'd appreciate the info.

maybe the problem lays with the hand thats throwing it ?
i've never had a problem with any of the T-BIRDS i've bought
sometimes it just take awhile to learn the disc.

with the champ teebirds i've always found them to have quite different characteristics than the older teebirds (grouping dx/9x/10x together as "similar flights" and the 11x's as a slightly different type). i've yet to be able to flatten one of the champ teebirds from a slight hyzer without torquing them over and they finish quite overstable when they are started with a hyzer unless they are VERY broken in.

a buddy of mine with legit 450 power (that usually throws 11x's) was complaining about the champs being flippy. last week at the USDGC i told him "i want to see these fly flippy" and i gave him some brand new 175g champ T's (clear and stiff). he then threw them with about 2 degrees of anhyzer and they proceded to turn and hold a pretty strong right turn until they flexed out at the very end, about 50' offline of "straight" and about 400' out. he then said "see? flippy." i then told him to throw them with about 5 degrees of hyzer... he threw em out there and they never flattened... held the 5 degree hyzer angle for about 95% of their flights and then abruptly changed to ~70 degree hyzer angle and law darted, only travelling about 350'.

all in all, i found it rather disheartening. i've been told the gummy/pearlescent ones aren't as volatile but i'm now firmly convinced i'll never be able to flatten my clear champ t's which is a shame, because i think the dx t's are one of the best/longest/straightest of the flip flat fly straight drivers.

this is weird-- my 4 i have are 171 and fly close to my new dx tees. not a hard fade at the end. when i throw mine hard with 5 degrees [+/- obviously] of hyzer, they go very straight, about 370 ft. my longest [controlled and fairly straight] throws come with a new dx beast about 430 if that helps. my champ tees are clear, stiff, and domey.

i'm not sure really. from my own experiences, i have taken a 168g yellow clear one and it initially flew very overstable for me. since then i've thrown it into a retaining wall full power from about 20' ~50 times as well as spiked it into a parking lot ~50 times and bashed into just about anything i can find to try and break it in. finally, after a lot of abuse, it got to the point where it wouldn't finish like a lawn dart if i got it turned over when i released it flat... however, i still couldn't get it to flatten up all the way if i released it even with a tiny bit of hyzer unless i rolled my wrist over. it does fly much straighter now and finishes later but still finishes quite overstable. for reference i throw my dx teebirds in the ~360-380' range for controlled D and i'm lucky if my champ t's go > 320.

i'm not sure really. from my own experiences, i have taken a 168g yellow clear one and it initially flew very overstable for me. since then i've thrown it into a retaining wall full power from about 20' ~50 times as well as spiked it into a parking lot ~50 times and bashed into just about anything i can find to try and break it in. finally, after a lot of abuse, it got to the point where it wouldn't finish like a lawn dart if i got it turned over when i released it flat... however, i still couldn't get it to flatten up all the way if i released it even with a tiny bit of hyzer unless i rolled my wrist over. it does fly much straighter now and finishes later but still finishes quite overstable. for reference i throw my dx teebirds in the ~360-380' range for controlled D and i'm lucky if my champ t's go > 320.



I am the exact same way, Blake. I can throw the DX Teebird out to about 400', but I can't push the Champ over 350'. The Champion Teebird is just so different from the DX. Don't assume that if you buy a Champ Teebird, it's going to fly like a DX, or vice versa. They are completely different discs!

What about the old CE discs?

My favorite driver of all time is the DX Teebird. Its the straightest, most accurate driver ever. With that being said, I totally agree w/ what Blake and Graham said. The Champ Teebirds are like a totally different disc...much more stable and not nearly as controlable. I personally didn't like them nearly as much. They aren't terrible though.

They 'are' good for shots that need to finish more overstable...PLUS, you're able to grab an identical mold to get the job done. I throw these in much lighter weights, 155-163g...they're stout little discs that can handle a sidearm as well. Gotta love the DX T's, though...! :cool:
.02

I have a few freinds with CE teebirds, which fly very nice with minumal low speed fade. I myself own 4 10x KC teebirds, that fly exactly the same way. I haven't got a chance to try any of the new prolines; I was waiting for them to fix the plastic as I saw all of my freinds taco their first run tb's within a week.

Chris

I like DX teebirds too but they just can't withstand the treelove my courses give em. Even at very light weights they are surprisingly stable and fly straighter than any other disc at the speed/distance I throw (325+ controlled D, 375+ 'other').

I was prepared to take another chance on the champ TBs but from what I'm hearing I wouldn't be able to flatten them out like my TLs. I've heard the TL is comparable to the Q-JLS or the Z-XL -- is this true?

I also have been very impressed with the Z-Flash -- its the first wide-winged driver that really 'clicks' for me on the hyzer-flip line. Orcs/Beasts/Valks are prone to flipping too far and need height/room to max out.

Great experiment Blake! I've done similar things to try to break in T's in the past. Here's my take on the new Champion T's:

First off, I'm primarily a RHBH am 1 with about 400' of power. The Orc has pretty much been my main driver for the past year, but recently I lost my favorite one. On the day I lost it I grabbed a couple of discs out of my trunk for tryouts on my home course. They included a couple of other Orcs, a 174g Crush, and a 175g Champ T. It was a moderately windy fall day in MI, which means a SWIRLING wind of no predictable direction in most cases. On this day the Teebird outperformed the other discs in terms of predictability and straight ahead distance. While the Orcs and the Crush were dramatically "S" curving all over the place, the Teebird was slow, steady, and straight. The flight path was so stable it felt like I'd taken some Xanax, while the other discs were very moody...While I realize I was sacraficing 10-20' of potential "D", the calm stability the Teebird offered was worth a lot more, especially, I imagine, if I had been competing. I had a similar experience with this Champ Teebird about a month ago. I traveled to Ann Arbor to play Hudson Mills and for some reason I was overpowering my Orcs all over the place, I picked up the Teebird and started throwing straight to my aim point.

Here's my explaination for this phenomenon and a description of the Champ. Teebird's uniqueness:

For distance I prefer to throw completely flat if the hole allows. With an Orc, this usually means a long, straight shot that turns out a little, then comes back, finishing straight 400'+. This is a great result that I'm normally quite happy with, however this shot is perfectly balanced in a way that if the wind blows just right or if I have a little more snap than usual (ie new course, tournament) then there is a lot more high speed turn in the flight path. I usually anticipate this and compensate by adding an appropratiate amount of hyzer to my release angle. This usually keeps the shot under control, however it is never as long, straight, or predictable as a flat release throw. Enter the Champ Teebird. Here is a truly STABLE disc that holds whatever line you put on it (I don't consider a disc that flips flat from hyzer stable). I can throw it flat, as hard as I can and it will fly dead straight for 90% of its flight before a slight, gliding fade. If I put 10 degrees of hyzer on my release, the disc holds that line through its flight, traveling just about as far, but ending left of center. If I put 45 degrees of hyzer on my release it spikes, and it holds every angle in between. Here is a true control disc. Now, on a calm day there is no doubt that the Orc is a longer disc for me, consistently out doing the Teebird by 10-20', but by this point in my DG career I value predictability and consistency above all else, and the Champ T delivers. Currently I've given my Orcs a vacation from my bag and I'm going to see how I score using the Teebird instead.

Another unique aspect of the Champ Teebird is its stability. This is where it is a mysterious wonder of physics. It possesses a remarkable amount of high speed stability, more than any other true distance driver, yet it also possesses less low speed fade than any of those other flippy distance drivers. This results in a disc that you can throw high, nose down, without fear of either falling too much into the high speed turn or stalling and fading left into the next county. On this note, I have found that the Teebird requires more height to get comprable distance as compared to the wide rimmed discs.
One more note: Earlier this year, when I had probably 10-20% less throwing power, I was with all the naysayers as I could not get much result out of this disc. When I began to consistently get my Orcs to turn out from flat this disc started to work for me.