I received the proposed NT sanctioning agreement a few days ago. (Note it is just a draft at this point). Maybe because of the opinions of Jason Southwick and Steve Dodge, the draft amends the Entry Fee guidelines to allow NT TD's to set their entry fees anywhere between $75 and $125 for Open and $75 to $100 for other divisions. This is a very wise decision in my opinion. They are still requiring a minimum purse of $10,000. But I like that it is left to the TD to decide how they'll get to that $10,000 figure.

For the Skylands Classic at Warwick NT event (Aug 20 & 21), we'll need to establish our entry fees soon. Obviously we'll more likely appeal to players rated less than 980 if we set the entry fee at $75 rather than $125.

Here is my question:

If we set our entry fee at $75 will YOU attend, whereas you wouldn't attend if we set the fee at $125?? In other words, will dropping the fee to $75 attract enough extra players to make up the $50 difference? For example, if we would attract 50 Open players at $125 entry fee ($6250 total), will we attract 80 players at $75 ($6000)?

Your comments will help us with our decision.

Thanks.

Dan Doyle
Warwick, NY

I think the question that needs to be answered first is whether the Skylands Flying Disc Club will be able to raise the sponsorship money to reach the minimum purse. Will the minimum purse of $10,000 be reached in large part due to sponsorship money or will reaching the purse be heavily dependant on entry fees? If the purse can be attained almost exclusively by sponsorship money, I cannot think of one reason to charge the higher entry fee.

I will be there regardless. Cant wait to play Warwick

Jeff....Good Point (I hate saying that to you.....)

The $10,000 minimum purse will not be an issue, regardless of our entry fee. Brakewell Steel is starting the added-cash portion of the event with $5000. My goal is to have $10,000 added. So we're halfway there.

I'd also like to know what other NT TD's are planning on doing as far as the entry fees are concerned. Why are you charging $125? Why are you charging $75? Or why some other amount? What are the pros and cons of one vs the other, other than the obvious need to get to a $10,000 purse?

I'd also like to know what other NT TD's are planning on doing as far as the entry fees are concerned. Why are you charging $125? Why are you charging $75? Or why some other amount? What are the pros and cons of one vs the other, other than the obvious need to get to a $10,000 purse?



hell.... in arizona they're charging $150....i'm sure that it will change sometime before march :D

I'd also like to know what other NT TD's are planning on doing as far as the entry fees are concerned. Why are you charging $125? Why are you charging $75? Or why some other amount? What are the pros and cons of one vs the other, other than the obvious need to get to a $10,000 purse?



The Disc Golf Hall of Fame Classic (http://members.aol.com/epicenterdg/DGHOFC.jpg) NT Event in Augusta will be charging $125 for open and $100 for all other pro divisions as per the original NT guidelines which were developed by the National Tour Committee to help give the tour some professional consistency from event to event.

It seems as though the whole concept of the National Tour is being forgotten and that the NT will soon be just another watered down SuperTour. Please remember that the original idea of the National Tour was to organize a small number (10) of our better run events into a more manageable geographic tour which could be more easily marketed to potential sponsors. Critical to the success of this marketing strategy are large numbers of spectators at these events as this is what gets the attention of sponsors, not huge numbers of competitors or free beer for the players. Critical to attracting and keeping the attention of spectators is that our events showcase our top players. Yes, the National Tour is not for everyone, it was created first and foremost for our sports elite players. We have A, B, C & D tier events for everyone else. The general public is not interested in watching a 950 rated player for very long however they are highly impressed with Kenny, Barry, Cam, Ron and many of our other elite players. The National Tour was created to be a step above what we already have. The original purpose of the SuperTour was the same as what the NT is now. We do not need another SuperTour.

There is an old saying, "If a tree falls in the woods and nobody hears it, does it make a sound?" I say, "If a great tournament is held in the woods and nobody sees it, was it a great tournament?" The answer would be yes, unless that event is an NT event.

Please do not misinterpret my comments as an attack on any particular event or TD. I just feel that the NT is getting sidetracked from its original purpose and we need to be reminded of our original goals in creating this series. We should be concerned about trying to attract the elite players and spectators to these events, and not worried about lowering the entry fees of our top professional tour or allowing beer to be consumed during play to accomodate the masses.

Quality over quantity!

Regards,
Brian Graham
TD - Hall of Fame Classic

Forgive me if this sounds like an attack on Brian, because it isn't, but his response might be the best argument against the NT that I've seen.


The general public is not interested in watching a 950 rated player for very long however they are highly impressed with Kenny, Barry, Cam, Ron and many of our other elite players.



Let's be honest here, the general public is not interested in disc golf, period.


Critical to the success of this marketing strategy are large numbers of spectators at these events as this is what gets the attention of sponsors, not huge numbers of competitors or free beer for the players.



Perhaps my geographical location has something to do with this, but you won't get spectators to show up for an event with players of a 'sport' they have never heard of. You WILL, however, have a better chance to get them to come watch their friend/brother/sister/etc.


I just feel that the NT is getting sidetracked from its original purpose and we need to be reminded of our original goals in creating this series. We should be concerned about trying to attract the elite players and spectators to these events, and not worried about lowering the entry fees of our top professional tour or allowing beer to be consumed during play to accomodate the masses.




The beer thing is a non-issue at Warwick Town Park, since alcohol is not allowed there. If the original goal in creating the NT series was to attract elite players and spectators, isn't that putting the cart before the horse? Create the spectators and the reason to want to be a spectator first. There is a reason I don't watch the Westminster Kennel Club's annual dog show - I don't own a dog and couldn't care less about Fifi the French Poodle. Likewise, someone who hasn't heard about DG will not care about an event, 'National Tour' or not.

Dan has busted his [*****] in making the course at Warwick Town Park one of the top 3 on the East Coast (by all accounts). A lot of the local pros help on a regular basis to make the course what it is, should they really be dissuaded from what might be their only chance to play with the top pros that they admire?

Mr. Graham, always good to hear from you---i'm sure the feel the same about me :cool: It's funny that you say that the NT has been watered down. Ironically, your NT event is named after the most watered-down institution in disc golf, the Hall of Fame! :D i think Kevin McCoy is the only pro who's ever played that's not in the HOF, right? and i think the automatic entry into the HOF after serving on the PDGA Board of Directors is a bit much.

the HOF classic is a great NT event, so don't go saying i'm bashing anyone. i do agree with you on the NT being watered down; i don't agree with you about your implication that the MSDGC would have no spectators "in the middle of the woods". I attended both the MSDGC and HOF; there were roughly the number of spectators at both events. the MSDGC had 8 cameras out there filming the action for a DVD, and the HOF had great local press and TV camera coverage. the MSDGC is held on a private course in the tradition of Augusta's Masters Golf Championship, meaning that the TD doesn't have to deal with the red tape of local recreation departments, and i believe no 2005 NT events are on private land where the sport needs to really expand to if it's going to flourish.

can spectators at the ball golf majors drink alcohol?

I gotta agree with Dan here. I don't see disc golf spectators just coming out from the general public, without being golfers themselves or being relatives/friends of players. From my experience, if you are trying to attract fellow golfers to spectate, beer helps. If you also believe that friends/relatives account for a lot of spectators, then more players equals more spectators.

At any rate, I never knew that was the intent of the NT tour, but if showcasing only the elite and attracting spectators were the goals, it seems like the PDGA should be measuring/assessing the success of the tour against those standards. It also seems like the PDGA might allow flexibility for the TDs to see if certain strategies attract more elite players and/or spectators.

As to Dan's original question: I will be much, much more likely to come to Warwick if the entry fee is $75 instead of $125. I know of others in the upstate NY region that feel the same as me. Since this event is not in conflict with a Can-Am series event(as both Warwick events last year were) I would anticipate a bunch of upstate players to come down. Especially if it was an NT size purse with a reduced entry fee.

I understand Brian Graham's point about why the NT was created, NT standards and avoiding a watered down National Tour.

But I don't think the sport has reached the point where NT events can be everything that were designed to be. As it currently stands, NT events feature 20-30 traveling players, the strong local players, and a few local mullet pros who play even with little chance of cashing. Overall attendance can be low and well short of filling the event. By dropping the entry fee to a reasonable amount, you encourage a lot more of those "hot-shot" locals to participate in the event. The event doesn't suffer in any way because the minimum purse has been raised by sponsorship dollars.

And speaking of spectatorship, having nearly a full course of 80 golfers, many of which are local players, competing in a National Tour Event looks a whole lot better than a half-empty course comprised of nearly all touring players because all the locals were priced out of the event.

With regard to Brian's post, in theory I agree with most of what he says. My biggest disagreement is that the theory and the current reality aren't quite in synch with each other. In the email that went to 2005 NT TD's the PDGA acknowledges that "the NT was established as a marketing strategy, and while all of us and many Tour players see the NT as prestigious, from a marketing point of view it has been a failure". Furthermore, "the PDGA leadership regrets the lack of performance to date". They go on to outline a strategy for turning this performance around. However, they recognize that "it will be difficult to realize much in terms of sponsorship for the '05 NT".

So although I like the notion of the NT being geared towards becoming a series of showcase events for the touring Pros, one step above the Supertour (A-Tier) events, I don't think that the national support, from a marketing and sponsorship standpoint, is there yet to warrant a $125 entry fee here in Warwick, NY. It would be ashame to lose the local and regional Pros because of a high entry fee that isn't necessary here - yet. The onus is still on us as local and regional TD's to do what we can in our own geographical areas to develop and nurture relationships and partnerships with buisness and charity. That's my goal. Then when the PDGA can assist me we'll be that much closer to an all-inclusive win-win situation and it's more likely the reality of the NT will mimic the vision.

Well put.

I would like to thank warwickdan for understanding the reality of disc golf in 2005, and for be willing to move forward with his NT event in a logical manner that helps the whole NT as evolves. I'm not a pro, and I don't tour, and I will probably never play a Warwick tourney, but I appreciate him being a realist and continuing to push forward in the name of disc golf.

So...thanks. :) Others might choose to whine and point fingers about how we aren't where we would like to be, but actions like his are how we might actually get there. And since it is a sane approach, even if we never get there his event won't be hurt by trying to make things better.

That's a win-win in my book, even though we are nowhere where we would like to be as a sport.

Dan,

Thanks for your insight. I hope you did not misconstrue my initial post as being an attack on you, who I highly respect, or the Warwick and MSDGC events, which I have heard nothing but great things about. My comments are not directed at any particular individual or event but is for the benefit of all the people who say, "Wow that was a good tournament, it should be an NT Event next year." I am merely trying to explain the main differences between the National Tour and our current SuperTour.

The main point I am trying to point out to people is that we already have:
- SuperTour (A-tier) - National Events
- Champions Tour (B-tier) - Regional Events
- C-tier - Local Events
- D-tier - Grassroots Events
- X-tier - Experimental Events

Why in the world would we want to create another national level tour if it is not going to be any different from the current SuperTour? I personally do not see any difference in status between an NT Event and a SuperTour Event. Both are our top national level events run by our best clubs and tournament directors. The NT was created to showcase our elite players to the general public, the media and potential national sponsors. We cannot reach these people if we do not try. The National Tour is our first concerted effort to do so and it will certainly take time before any real benefits are realized. You are right in that we may not be at that level yet but I feel strongly that we would be foolish to give up so easily.

Mikey....I will not even attempt to use logic with someone as illogical as you can be sometimes. We are very proud to be able to thank all of the distinguished Hall of Famers members for what they have all done for our sport by honoring them at the Hall of Fame Classic. I hope that you will consider joining us here in Augusta once again for the event.

Regards,
Brian Graham

Brian....I didn't take anything you said as an attack on me or other TD's. Like I said I generally agree with what you wrote. I also am not suggesting we give up on the idea of the NT being different than the Supertour.

On the contrary. For those of us in Warwick excited about being part of the 2005 NT, I think maybe the difference between running our NT this year and past year's "A" events is as much a change in mindset as anything else. I know personally I'm holding myself to a higher standard in terms of pulling off a professional event than we ran "A" tier events. Even though we as a sport may not be where we want to be in terms of being to generate lucrative parternships with major corporations, I believe that for the most part the NT is viewed in high regard by touring players. We'll do what we can to pull off an impressive event that everyone can be proud of. I know our NT event will feel very different than any other event we've done in Warwick. (Although having DiscTV film our event 2 years ago was pretty cool too).

whew, thanks brian, i'll be there. it's okay if i skip the HOFamers speeches i hope? :D

if they would limit the NT to those events that have a purse above $20000, you could tell the difference between the NT and A-tiers.

brian is the HOF gonna have that huge scoreboard again?

Augusta always has the big Leader Board

There is an old saying, "If a tree falls in the woods and nobody hears it, does it make a sound?"



also another saying....
"if there was an event with no program,was there really an event?" :D