Does anyone know how many players make a living entirely by playing disc golf? I was looking at the money leaders and it looks like only a small handful made over 20K last year.

I've heard that there are many touring pro's but I'm not sure how they can afford to live off such little income? Unless of course they are paid generously by their sponsors? And what about health benefits and the like, as well as paying taxes on their winnings at some point.

i don't know. but my guess would be that only 3-4 people make a living just playing disc golf. however i'd bet there are several more that make a living through disc golf. i'll bet schwebby will have a good answer for this as he is the top touring pro/poster around. :D

no one is making a living at it....only getting by.
Check with this touring players when they are in their 50 & 60 s and see how their disc golf 401 ks are doing.

Its just not possible. I mean it is possible but if your living requirements are minimal and you dont want to have certain tangible things like a house or a refridgerator full of food, and lets not forget a family, then yes. Anyone can be a career discgolfer but I like being able to take showers daily. Just my two cents, maybe worth less.

there are other means of compensation other than merely the tournament payouts!! selling plastic,mid-week minis,hustling!! clinics!! any elaboration????

I've always been one of the loudest and quickest to scoff at the "making a living playing Disc Golf" claims...

Only Shultz has made anywhere close to a modest income from his disc golf winnings. I'm sure that there is significant 'other' disc-golf income for a handful of players (bonuses, un-sanctioned, selling of some plastic) but it's not that much.

Especially when you factor in that they don't have any added benefits...no health insurance, no dental plan, no Paid Time Off, no 401K or matching contributions.

Take Barry's 37K winnings last year (which, in our sub-culture, is very, very impressive)--now deduct about 28% of that for taxes. In the typical corporate job, the company pays about 18% per/employee on their benefits package. Now, deduct that 18% from Barry's winnings.

That leaves you about 17K.

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You can make $7 hour working the cash register at Wal Mart or the local corner store. Get promoted from Fry -cook to Drive-through at the burger shack and you can get at least $8 an hour.

If you work 40 hours per week x $7.00 hour = $280/week x 52 weeks/year = $14560.00/year . Plus benefits (at 18%, your getting about $17,180) for your effort.

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Bottom line, for now, the world's worst Burger Flipper can still earn close to what the Worlds' Best Disc Golfer can earn.

I think there are many, many more TOP players who SUPPLEMENT their disc golf career earnings with a secondary job. There are even more **** Good disc golfers out there who supplment their real jobs income with some added disc golf loot.

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I'm sorry, but you won't convince me that earning <$20K/annually , working just on the weekends, is 'earning a living'.

It's a semantics thing for me.

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But with all that doomsaying said--if I were a younger man, and wasn't already shackled to a chain of responsibility (mortgage, car loans, student loans, flowers for the wife, retirement plan, etc.)...AND I was blessed with that kind of talent...I would drop everything to make 20K/year for a few years of living a Touring Disc Golf life.

More power to those lucky few who get a chance to live that life, if even for a short time.

If you can find a spouse/partner that makes good dough and has a company benefit policy that includes you, you can "make a living" playing disc golf. But at that point, aren't you just glad you can even try to? :p

If you can find a spouse/partner that makes good dough and has a company benefit policy that includes you, you can "make a living" playing disc golf. But at that point, aren't you just glad you can even try to? :p



Affluent spouse is a great point. And probably the only realistic way for it to work right now.

But in addition to being the top bread-winner, they'd have to be hell-a-understanding and love you A LOT.

Bottom line, for now, the world's worst Burger Flipper can still earn close to what the Worlds' Best Disc Golfer can earn.



You have to remember they get cash bonuses from their sponsor for top finishes in A Tiers Majors and NTs. Barry also get a royalty for every single beast they stamp with his name on it. I would say it is somwhere around 25 cents a disc. So if they run 1000 Barry Schultz beasts then he gets 250 bucks. Plus all the money he gets when he sells discs on tour. Plus if your really lucky your sponsor pays for your gas and the maitnence of your vehicle. So if you really think about it he made 37 grand plus sponsor bonuses plus royalties from the disc plus the discs he sells AND he prolly doesnt have to pay for gas either.

Id say thats a pretty **** good living for a disc golfer. Then who knows he may be employed by Innova and getting benefits from them. Thats always a possiblity. So in all actuality no burger flipping punk makes as much as Barry did last year.

I disagree. I doubt any sponsor will pay for gas and or maitenence. The $250 for the discs is harldy anyhthing. Keep in mind they have to pay for hotels and all that on the road food can get expensive. Mickey D's starts at around $10 bucks an hour, and they give raised often- I could see how a full time burger flipper could easily make 25K a year, and that IS pretty close to the TOP dg'ers in the WORLD.

I was told by Ron Russel that the gas and maitenence on his RV was paid for by Discraft and Schweb just said on here that he was givin a gas card when he was touring so your wrong about the gas not being paid for. Most of these guys hardly every stay in hotels anyway because they know people all over the country. Then at alot of the NTs and SuperTours their sponsors pay their entry fees and they get cash and disc bonuses for placing well in NT events. They get alot more then people think they do. Plus they usually have alot more sponsors then just Innova or Discraft. Schweby has like 5 or 6 sponsors including Innova, Par 72 Discgolf, Santa Cruz disc golf bags and Phenix Disc Sports if i remember correctly. So its not like Innova or Discraft are these guys only sponsors.

They make alot more money then you think and they pay alot less then you think when they are on the road.

Wow. Please read more threads before replying to this. I would suggest the thread on taxes from a bit back and the sponsorship threads.


1st- I think you only have to pay income tax's for the amounts they know you won, which was anytime you won over $600 in a single event. DG is not a normal job, and taxes are not the same. So if you're a mid- level touring pro(maybe 1 win, but always in the $$$) you may have only won over $600 5 times.

2nd. No traditional expenses. No property, school, and all those other taxes. You don't have a mortgage if your on the road full time. No utilities either. As long as the RV/ tour vehicle is paid for then you don't have car loans. Yes it costs to keep it running, but so does every other vehicle.

3rd. Sponsor Bonuses for top finishes. $$$ or free plastic, depends on sponsorship level. May not be that much for some, but I bet it helps. These don't appear on PDGA winnings stats, and I can't remember whether they can be counted as a gift or not for tax purposes.

4th- Free places to stay. The disc golf family is great. I only tour regionally, but out of say 15 tournaments out of town next year I may have to pay for a place to stay 3 times. And I only recently started traveling compared to those guys. I remember hearing from a touring pro when I asked him about this that he had a place to stay in every state they go to. That saves a TON of money.

5th- Things like clinics and doubles that many run. I've been to doubles run be Mace, Stokely, and someone else I can't remember. They take $10 each and pay out in plastic. 20 people= $200- $75(cost of plastic)= $125. They do that one or two nights a week and that could be anywhere from $500 to $1000 a month. That's on top of the other sales they do at these doubles or tournaments.

For the rest, we should wait till Schweb or Todd Branch runs across this thread.

What McDonald's pays $10 an hour? And that's a job.

Playing DG for a living SHOULD be fun and enjoyable. I'd take having fun anyday over working for a living.

i stand corrected.


i suppose it depends on the market, but I know more then one person that was started at 10 bucks- entry level at the golden arches.

1st- I think you only have to pay income tax's for the amounts they know you won, which was anytime you won over $600 in a single event. DG is not a normal job, and taxes are not the same.



You are very wrong on this. You do have to pay income tax on all earned income. Now, some players may not choose to report this income. But that's different than saying they don't 'have' to pay.

Furthermore, I'm sure the IRS has access to the Internet. Which means they have access to this Web site. Which means they have access to every players actual winnings for all sanctioned and reported events.

Sure, there are some extra ways that the top guys earn a few extra dollars via disc golf. And doubtlessly they can find a way to save a few bucks while on the road. But the number of players who make enough this way to be considered even modestly 'substantial' can be counted on one hand. And you won't need all your digits, either.

You suggest that none of these top earners (only about 6-7 guys even over $20K) pays rent or a mortgage. I don't believe any of them live 'on the road' full time. So, that's not a real good arguement either.

I'd concede that maybe 3 guys earn a living wage (on their own accord, not floated by their spouses lucrative career) strictly from playing disc golf.

What do you consider substantial for one person??? Do you know that only 1 percent of the Worlds makes over 100 thousand dollars a year so the 37 grand that Barry made last year plus his bonuses and disc sales is a pretty **** substantial earning for any single person let alone a pro disc golfer.

I work 50 hours a week as the Manager of a Parts department and i didnt even gross 37 thousand dollars last year and i will prolly just make 35 this year. So he made in tournament winnings alone more then i did working a REAL JOB with benefits.

So i guess your definition of a living would make difference too. I would say if you can live for a year on what you make then your making a living. Maybe you think making a living is making 50 grand a year or whatever but everyones opinion on this is different so you cant really say there are only 4 guys that make a living doing this.

I work 50 hours a week as the Manager of a Parts department and i didnt even gross 37 thousand dollars last year and i will prolly just make 35 this year. So he made in tournament winnings alone more then i did working a REAL JOB with benefits.





Why would you say that playing disc golf professionaly is not a real job? Is playing in the NBA not a real job either? It takes a lot of practice, time, and commitment to play disc golf at that high of a level.

Your right its a real job im just saying that Rooster is wrong when he says that there are only 4 guys on tour who make a living and they make alot more then he thinks they do.

No kidding. Its about how you want to live while on the road touring that makes a difference, and if you know people in the event citys your playing. If not then get ahold of a local, and more then likely you could be sofa surfing.The disc golf community as a whole is very providing.I could easily live and tour on 20k. Little Debbies arent that bad, nor is hooking up a local for a bed.

It seems to me that it's getting to the point where the absolute top players in the game are able to make about as much, without benefits, as someone who just graduated from. Even then most of it hinges on how well they do at two specific tournaments.

Why would you say that playing disc golf professionaly is not a real job?



Nelle, I'm not positing that being a full time Disc Golf Professional is not a real job. The only thing I've argued is that there are no more than a handful (a single handful) of people who actually have that particular real job.

And Pimp...you say they 'prolly make a lot more than I think they do'...I'd say it's much more likely that they make a lot less than you actually think they do.

If you think that $20K annually, without benefits, is a good living...wait until the first time you have to go to the doctor or dentist for a significant injury or illness and you don't have good insurance. You'll find that $20K of winnings can be depleted in a matter of days.

Luke and Mills have covered most of the perks the pros get but here are a couple more:

I have been told that the pros who have signature discs get a royalty on every disc sold, but I was not told that by the guy writing or cashing the check.

Some of the touring pros don't pay entry fees at some of the tournaments. I know this, as opposed to merely being told so by somebody, but have no idea how widespread it is.

Schweb posted somewhere on here that only the entry fees for Worlds and USDGC are paid for him.

They're the most expensive two, but it's stil only two. I think he's an A-list'er, isn't he?

I'm taking about those that live the majority of the year on the road. Like the Winnicrew did, the Carolina crew, Ron Russell, etc. Barry said in the mag that he now has an apartment, Kenny also has a permenant residence. Then there's those like Heeren who just travel to tournaments for weekends.

I don't think that those on the road full- time have a permenant residence for themselves. It's not practical.

As to what a living wage is: Some of my professors don't believe that the 160k that congressmen make is enough to live on. I bet that the majority of DG'ers don't make what you would consider a good living.

I hope to someday be out on tour full time. I believe it is very possible to live on the road as long as your a good player. That of course dosen't mean your going to have any money when you decided to stop, but that's the trade off.

I read an interesting article in regards to this topic today in the Des Moines Register:

Career Builder�
Beyond the Glory

Do you dream of a career as a professional athlete? Do dollar signs dance in your eyes as you picture yourself earning millions of dollars to score the winning dunk?

It�s not all glitz and glamour being a pro athlete. Though most of us automatically think of big-name stars in big-exposure sports like NASCAR, the NFL, NBA, MLB and NHL, there are literally hundreds of other sports out there that you can make a career of � and most of them don�t pay nearly as well.

People can earn paychecks by bowling, cycling, skiing, playing pool, ice skating, roping steer, spiking volleyballs and even curling. Being a pro athlete means lots of practice and frequent travel. Instead of millions of dollars in salary and endorsements, think tens of thousands and buying your own equipment.

Median salaries for professional athletes are anywhere between $26,165 (www.salary.com) and $45,320 (www.iseek.org). While that means 50 percent of salaries are above those figures, it also means that the other 50 percent earn less.

Okay... I'm ready to chime it.
WinniCrew guy Todd Branch here.

When myself, Al Shack, and Darren Harper first left on tour I had moved out of the house I was (half) renting with a DG pal. Al and Darren were living at home (Al after a divorce and Darren well... he just lives at home). I got the motor home and between us we had about $3K to get started. We burned through that fast. Our sponsorship at that time was JayBird discs and was as follows:
- a couple shirts
- discs at a 10% over cost.
We blew about $1,000 on a disc supply for selling.
We bought about 50 8x Rocs with Jbird stamps and sold them for $12 apiece.... wish I still had those.

At first, Al was the only one making any consistant money.
Darren went back home after about a month.

After a while Al got sponsored by Innova (Team Champion). Innova wanted to put me on the 'also sponsored team' but I held out for about 8 more months until they put me on the champ. team too.

Sponsorship for Champion team was and still is:
100 discs
2 entry fees
shirts/hats/towels/etc...
Bonuses (supertour or higher only) 5th or better.

Sometimes along the way we could pick up added sponsorship from other companies like a free golf bag or an entry fee but that only happened a couple times.

After a little while Al and I picked up Sue Stephens and then later Dave Feldberg. At one time we had 4 people, 2 dogs, and a cat in our 22 foot motor home. Very cramped.

After a year and a half of that, Al and Sue got their own motor home.... Dave and I picked up Avery Jenkins as our third and continued on.... my dad got us different motor home, 27 foot this time. We sold advertising on the side which helped ends meet and continuted to tour for two more years together.

The only people that get a better sponsorship are Kenny (gets something like $.10 per KC disc, there are several models) and Barry who gets $.XX per beast and one other disc that he has not chosen yet.

As far as discraft goes, I'm sure that special deals were cut for Russell. Cam Todd got some special treatment, Stokely got a bit of special treatment. I think Timmy Gill might get some exras but he works hard promoting discraft in Minnesota. Julianna was getting a little special treatment from each manufacturer.

Anyway... that should about do it. Lot's of info there.

To sum up.

-Barry makes a living playing disc golf.
-Kenny makes a better living.

-Ron is on the road with a motor home so prolly has a little less security than Barry.

-Manufacturers make a great living at disc golf.
-Guru makes his living off disc golf... it might not be much but it's probobally more than anyone besides Kenny.
-DGWN makes a good living at disc golf.

I was pretty good at the game, I had a couple people sharing expenses with me for four years who were also good, I won some supertours, I was competition director for the PDGA for a couple years, was even nominated as player of the year once... when I stopped touring I was $15,000 in debt. $3,000 to Innova.

If you want to be a touring pro, you'll have to play better than I did. You'll have to come up with better ways of making a little extra cash. You'll have to get better sponsorship than I did.... then you might break even.

-tB

Don't forget the retailers/wholesalers/internet sellers who make decent part or fulltime incomes with disc golf and they don't have to play well to do that. Houck and I probably make the highest percentage of our income from course design fees among all designers (because we do more of it than any other designers), but I suspect it's never been more than half our annual income.

Thanks for shedding the light! Very informative post. Proves to be that I really need to be creative. My favorite stamp of all time is still MaceMan's
"Quit your job and play Disc Golf!"

I always thought I should get a % for that one.... lol.
(not really macey grey)

If you can find a spouse/partner that makes good dough and has a company benefit policy that includes you, you can "make a living" playing disc golf. But at that point, aren't you just glad you can even try to? :p



Affluent spouse is a great point. And probably the only realistic way for it to work right now.

But in addition to being the top bread-winner, they'd have to be hell-a-understanding and love you A LOT.

I have this situation right now. :) :D :D

Bottom line, for now, the world's worst Burger Flipper can still earn close to what the Worlds' Best Disc Golfer can earn.



You have to remember they get cash bonuses from their sponsor for top finishes in A Tiers Majors and NTs. Barry also get a royalty for every single beast they stamp with his name on it. I would say it is somwhere around 25 cents a disc. So if they run 1000 Barry Schultz beasts then he gets 250 bucks. Plus all the money he gets when he sells discs on tour. Plus if your really lucky your sponsor pays for your gas and the maitnence of your vehicle. So if you really think about it he made 37 grand plus sponsor bonuses plus royalties from the disc plus the discs he sells AND he prolly doesnt have to pay for gas either.

Id say thats a pretty **** good living for a disc golfer. Then who knows he may be employed by Innova and getting benefits from them. Thats always a possiblity. So in all actuality no burger flipping punk makes as much as Barry did last year.

He does pay for his own gas.

What McDonald's pays $10 an hour? And that's a job.

Playing DG for a living SHOULD be fun and enjoyable. I'd take having fun anyday over working for a living.

I know that minimum wage in Santa Cruz McDonald's is like 9.25 an hour.

Still a pretty **** good living. He made 10 grand more then i did working 50 hours a week :mad:

Schweb posted somewhere on here that only the entry fees for Worlds and USDGC are paid for him.

They're the most expensive two, but it's stil only two. I think he's an A-list'er, isn't he?

Correct RheTT.... :D

Still a pretty **** good living. He made 10 grand more then i did working 50 hours a week :mad:



True, but 99.99999% of all Parts Store employees (not just management) earned more than 99.99999% of all disc golf Pros.

Great post, Todd. I think it illustrates the difficulties and realities that young players should understand before heading out on the road to 'live the dream'.

True, but 99.99999% of all Parts Store employees (not just management) earned more than 99.99999% of all disc golf Pros.



If i knew i could just make it by playing on tour i would do that in a heartbeat over the 50 hours a week im putting in right now. Ill take less money and more fun and enjoyment over more money and less enjoyment 7 days a week and twice on sundays.

I think you need to compare what the best Parts Counter Dude in the World makes per year compared to what Barry makes.

If i knew i could just make it by playing on tour i would do that in a heartbeat over the 50 hours a week im putting in right now. Ill take less money and more fun and enjoyment over more money and less enjoyment 7 days a week and twice on sundays.



Just don't get hurt, get sick, play poorly (ever), have a vehicle that needs maint/gas/tires, and don't sell plastic at the TD's event and you'll be all set!

-tB

I can tell you right now im getting rip off for what i do at this dealership. Guys doing the same thing i do at other dealers are making close to 50 thousand a year gross and this year i might hit 35 thousand. So i guess if i was getting paid fairly i would make more then barry did but i would still trade places in a second. Heck if i thought i could make 12 grand a year on tour i would quit my job and tour full time.

Maybe the next question for this discussion is to ask when/if a time will come to where people will be able to make a living at this sport the same way they do in the PGA. i.e. hundreds of touring players all making good income. (I would think that tournaments would need to be nationally televised in order to generate this type of income)

Is this a common goal amongst all disc golfers or do only a small few share this view?

I've heard several people say they'd rather have the sport remain relatively small than to see conglomerate corporations (like Nike) come in and take over, as well as having any other problems arise from become widely recognized.

I'm happy where the sport is now, but I dream to one day see Ken Climo and/or Barry Schultz be the lead story on Sportcenter, maybe battling it out at a USDGC.

Maybe the next question for this discussion is to ask when/if a time will come to where people will be able to make a living at this sport the same way they do in the PGA. i.e. hundreds of touring players all making good income. (I would think that tournaments would need to be nationally televised in order to generate this type of income)





I'd like to see all that happen too, but to be honest..... whatever comes is fine with me as long as I still get to go out a throw a few shots with my pals once in a while.

-tB

Maybe the next question for this discussion is to ask when/if a time will come to where people will be able to make a living at this sport the same way they do in the PGA. i.e. hundreds of touring players all making good income. (I would think that tournaments would need to be nationally televised in order to generate this type of income)





I'd like to see all that happen too, but to be honest..... whatever comes is fine with me as long as I still get to go out a throw a few shots with my pals once in a while.

-tB



AMEN BROTHA :D

I'd like to see all that happen too, but to be honest..... whatever comes is fine with me as long as I still get to go out a throw a few shots with my pals once in a while.-tB



Wiser and truer words have never been spoken on these boards (with the possible exception of "Shut your donkey�").