I was wondering if someone could expand on properly extending your elbow during the throw. Can someone explain the same thing in different words? Like... "keeping your elbow on the same plane as your shoulders throughout the throw, but as far away from your body as possible" or "moving your elbow over the greatest distance possible on a straight line during the throw" or whatever. What arm motion occurs when you're not properly extending your elbow?

Dave says reach your elbow back when you throw.

Like, put the disc into your chest and reach back with your elbow not the disc.

Ah, so elbow extension is how far you reach back with your elbow, I see. Thanks.

Yeah, but that other stuff about keeping it horizontal is important too. Keep the elbow high, so your arm is like a bullwhip.

well actually you don't keep the elbow high.. you start by keeping your elbow high in your pullback.. that sets you up for a much higher release point, but if you watch most pros(especially steve brinster who's a bent elbow Technique master) the elbow drops down when it starts to extend... seems to allow for the disc to come through the body on a level plane and a much smoother release.. I don't know if that's why that happens, but most people drop their elbows on their pullthrough.

-Scott Lewis

See, this is something that I'm curious about. I start with my elbow high, and it would be very awkward for me to keep it high throughout the entire pull (using the pull back technique). Though, it still seems possible that keeping it high could result in a better throw.

It appears that the elbow is never fully extended until after the hit and during follow-through... This precludes an extended elbow for a straight reach-back.

Perhaps I have a misunderstanding but my interpretation of elbow extension has always been the motion that occurs as the elbow straightens right at the hit. Whether you use the reach back method or the bent elbow method, as your body turns into the throw your elbow begins to bend (reach back) or is bent (bent elbow) until you get to that point where you straighten your elbow at the hit. In my interpretation you might more accurately call it forearm extension. I got my definition from Dave Dunipace's distance secrets:

"Arm speed comes from elbow extension rather than mere arm motion."

found at this site:

http://www.discgolfreview.com/resources/articles/distancesecrets.shtml#bentelbow

In this interpretation, rapid elbow extension at the hit is the key to good arm speed and hence good distance. Dave tells us that the later the elbow extension the more arm speed and the more distance. I have found this to be exceedingly true. I get late elbow extension by keeping my grip firm but relaxed and my arm relaxed until I am right at the point where I want elbow extension (my pull up to that point is loose and at 70 or 80%). At the point of elbow extension I bear down on my grip, unwind my forearm with all the power and speed I have, and (unlike Dave) use an active wrist whip instead of tendon bounce (I limit out at 390 feet instead of the greater distances that those who use tendon bounce get but I can't get it to work for me and 390 is darn good for a 44 year old dad). Remember, elbow extension is as late as you can make it and every part of you goes into the throw at that point but until that point every thing is as relaxed as you can make it.

BTW - Dave's writings will give you some good perspective on correct elbow extension. From my personal perspective, getting this right is the key. I've looked at dozens of players who use different run ups, different throwing motions (high, low, bent, reach back,) and on and on. What they all have in common is late elbow extension that explodes the disc out of their hands. This is the key and it can be tough to figure out. I, and I believe most players start out with their elbow extension occuring too early in their throw or pulling through tense so that the elbow doesn't bend and then extend at all. Even the amount of bend doesn't seem to be so important (look at the videos) but that quick fast extension late in the throw matters a lot. The way people get this is called the lawn mower movement (I'm sure you've read this). The problem is that the lawn mover pull is not relaxed. You grip that cord and pull it hard. Furthermore, a lawnmower pull stops right at the point where a disc throw is getting started. However, the motion your arm goes through is the same as the motion you have when you start a lawnmower with the possible exception that I pull my lawnmover cable until my elbow is way out and as far back as possible whereas my throws don't push my elbow nearly as far back. Initially I had to consciously make my arm follow that path and stay relaxed at the same time but over time it became natural. The forearm comes in because the arm is relaxed and that is the natural path it will take through the throw.

Well, damnit, if it is not an "elbow extension," but a "forearm extension," or the some other term, stop calling it an elbow extension. You are confusing me. :D

The statements like "elbow extension occuring too early" or "elbow doesn't bend and then extend at all" are very perplexing to me. My elbow is connected to my shoulder by a fixed length called an "upper arm" in common terms. "Extension" implies an increase in length. My elbow can't increase in length. My upper arm can't increase its length. Trying to understand the basic concept of elbow extension causes my brain to short out.

I didn't invent the terminology, I just use it to confuse! :D

If I were to explain it in my terminology:

The elbow is a hinge. As you pull through, the elbow/hinge bends. Your arm should be relaxed enough so that the bend occurs naturally as your shoulder pulls your upper arm around. For me, the shoulder, while relaxed, doesn't move; that is, the hinge at the shoulder upper arm joint does move as my torso pulls my shoulder and my shoulder pulls the upper arm around (my upper arm is probably at ten to twenty degrees off of straight relative to my shoulders i.e. at 160 to 170 degrees) . Remember that while this is happening the the elbow hinges bringing the forearm in closer to the body and in closer to the upper arm (Dave suggests that the angle of the forearm and upper arm should never be less than 90 degrees and I find that works for me. In fact, I've seen a lot of pros who never bend more than 30 to 40 degrees from straight). Lets refer to the action where the forearm moves away from the upper arm, that is, from the elbow bent position to the point where the elbow hinge is at a 180 degree angle (i.e. no bend) as forearm extension (the forearm is extending away from the upperarm). At the hit ( I consider all the action including forearm extension to release as the hit), I tighten my grip and pull (extend the forearm) as quickly and powerfully as I can). If the target is at 0 degrees relative to my body, forearm extension for me doesn't start until a perpendicular line going straight out from my chest is at 25 to 20 degrees from the target (I think in actuallity the angle is slightly larger but I want to emphasize the point that the hit starts very late and that you are relaxed until the hit). That is, I am almost facing the target right on, before I start the hit. If you start the hit earlier you lose power (in fact I did this for a year and couldn't figure out what I was doing wrong... it was incredibly frustrating until I got it right). Now all my actions are directed towards getting that hit as late as possible in my throw.

The fact is that a powerful hit will cause your arm to pull all the way around, your shoulder to upperarm angle will open up beyond 160 degrees to 200 or 220 degrees (age and flexibility dependent) and if your foot doesn't spin a little on the ground you will torque your knee because the power of the hit pulls all your body around too.

The final part is tendon bounce. Go read Dave's stuff on this. I never got tendon bounce to work for me before I got my hit late enough, but I find that an active wrist whip that starts at the start of the hit does wonders for my accuracy and distance. I go from a 350 foot drive to a 380 foot drive with that motion. Let me add that I still work on tendon bounce (I have no doubt that it is real and I just haven't worked it out yet) but currently I am enamoured with the accuracy and distance I'm getting from my wrist whip. (disclaimer: My average when I am working for distance is about 360 feet... My range is from 330 to 380 feet. When I have proper wrist whip and technique I can hit 10 380 foot drives in a row but I am not consistent).