What is the PDGA doing to promote our sport to the mainstream, besides E.D.G.E.? Is the PDGA willing to invest money into cameras and towers to videotape major events and turn them into T.V stations ie:colleges,public access,or any other type of station? Where is the PDGA's thinking on this issue? Are they leaving all promotions for tourney's to the T.D.'s? This is not a witch hunt on the PDGA by any means, I am curious to see what is going on with promoting our diverse sport to the masses.

With todays technology this could be done fairly cheap and easily. I see the big picture as well. I could do alot but then you would have to probably socialize with this psycho hate monger. :D

Hello..........hello, is this thing on? (echo, echo, echo)

The first two sentences of that reply were nice to read the last half can be kept to yourself. Stick to the topic please.

Funny, I'm only reading one sentence in that post:
*** You are ignoring this user ***

My apologies.

Not allowing a jerkoff who has conversations with himself on a message board to join.

Apology accepted. :)

Bruce what do you know about what the PDGA is doing? Do you have any input besides saying something negative?

That is not what I'm looking for Mr. Knudson. Leave that crud somewhere else.

I only know what I'm doing. I'm trying not to expose the PDGA. The PDGA is not dressed yet.

What do you mean Bruce? Were not ready for any T.V exposure?

That statement can be taken more than one way. I choose not to look at the funny side and look at the more serious side, that is that WE ARE NOT READY YET!!!!!!

So what steps are being taken to get us "ready or prepared " to get us to the next level?

The members and players would have to want to go to the next level first.

Ignoring the stupid would be a good start. Washing their hands of the PDGA message board would also be an excellent step.

I can't imagine network TV would be anywhere in the near future but if it was, I would like to see a disc golf event on a real ball golf course. That might make it easier to film and more dramatic. The PDGA might not like this idea but maybe we could start aiming for some of the not so mainstream networks like MTV, VH1, or SpikeTV. I really get kind of bored watching people play DG but things like distance competition, freestyle, and other disc type competitions would be things I would be more willing to watch. Just my opinion. /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Rhett, You don't think that the members and players of the PDGA would want our sport on T.V. I can't think of anybody that wouldn't want to call their parents or friends and tell them to tune into such and such station and you can see me playing DG on T.V. everybody wants their 15 mins. of fame for the most part. It's a pretty cool thing to be on T.V. For the sake of argument though let's say a majority of the members and players want to be on T.V. what is being done to prepare us?

Knudson, scrapping the board is not the way to go for anything for our sport. It is a very useful tool to bring us together to conversate about things we can do to help DG. Which is all I am trying to do here. I could care less about what has or hasn't been said on other threads to make you dislike the board. Would you like to see our sport on television, if so then give up some input that would help the cause not detour from it. I'm sure you got some ideas in that noggin of yours let me hear them.

That's pretty much how I would imagine it going down, being on some other station rather than trying to put it on ABC or NBC or something. More variety at the tournaments is a neat thing like the Big D comps, Freestyle comps along with your DG tourney is a great idea it should happen more often other than once or twice a year, but it needs to be filmed or aired. Good input.

There was Disctv on satellite sports station. It did not get enough sponsorship and was canceled.
There is also, currently, I believe, videos/dvd's that can be ordered that are films of current tournaments.

That was the problem with disctv though it was on satellite nobody has satallite :p

While a vast percentage of disc golfers, not necessarily PDGA member want the sport to remain grassroots and stay where it is. (This is based on my casual observation of golfers in my section of the US). I feel that the PDGA and it's major member base are currently heading in the right steps for cable/network television coverage.

1st - You have to set up a string of major tournaments that attract the biggest and the best players. TA DA, the National Tour.

2nd - You need to get major corporate sponsorship. Bowling Green has Bell South for the Open and Budwieser for the Am Championship.

3rd - Get the cash up. To be televised, the audience has to be excited. People watch golf on TV and it is not really to see amazing golf skills, it is to see who wins that $1mil purse. No one would get excited about watching people throw a frisbee for $1,000. But for $1mil, I would be they would.

4th - Get out of the woods! Not that wooded courses are a bad thing, it forces a great finesse/skill game. But it would be uninteresting to watch a disc go into the wood and not be seen by the people watching on TV. More courses like Winthorp Gold would have to be installed with rope OB and mandos to create the finesse aspect of the game while allowing spectators to watch.

Currently our only tournament that would draw some television demand would be the USDGC. An excellently ran event, on an imaculate course, with the top pros in the nation and the winner takes home $10K. Get about 10-15 USDGC's a year and you would have a television demand.

While I think we are definately on our way to achieving this, it is still a ways off. Maybe 10 years or so? But it will just take diligence and time. Local TD's will have to do the work needed to drum up demand for their tournaments before any major sponsor will even consider it. Perhaps the PDGA could help TD's with sales training to learn how to gain sponsorships. I am tired of seeing tournament directors hit up the players for added cash sponsorships. The players entry should be all the have to worry about spending at a tournament.

PBS! This would be a cost effective way to jump into the public network. I am also building a site that will have an area to upload videos and pics for competitions live. We should also be using the wireless network for posting scores and just doing everything in real time to make EVERYONE feel like they are more involved then waiting for a few days for someone to post scores.

With more real time and public access to these types of media it would really make it easier to advertise, especially if the news could access the events remotely. This would make it easier to promote events and make the public aware that they are even happening in their community.

There are so many things WE can do, but WE have to make them happen and not wait around for someone to do it for us.

[QUOTE]
Rhett, You don't think that the members and players of the PDGA would want our sport on T.V. I can't think of anybody that wouldn't want to call their parents or friends and tell them to tune into such and such station and you can see me playing DG on T.V. everybody wants their 15 mins. of fame for the most part. It's a pretty cool thing to be on T.V. For the sake of argument though let's say a majority of the members and players want to be on T.V. what is being done to prepare us?[QUOTE]

It's gonna take people NOT smoking pot during tournies for one thing. I know the PDGA has rules already in place. But, it still goes on. get 4 buddies on a card and you'll hear "you guys mind..." everytime. It's gonna take buddies MINDING. Friends policing friends for the benefit of the sport. Friends hate to do that to each other, but it needs to be done. A friend wouldn't constantly let another get away with falling putts during a tourney round, yet they let smoking slide. In EVERY sanctioned tourney I've played this year, there have/has been people smoking during one of the rounds.2 times on the "lead" card and once on the 2nd to last card. The guy in 2nd place behind me hated pot soo much that he just totally shanked and was [inappropriate word] off the whole last round, he dropped down to near last in the tourney. Still, he didn't turn anyone in. How frickin pitifull is a person that they can't go 2 hrs without smoking pot?

I beleive that if they were on TV, then no one would be pathetic enough to want to be exposed braking the law broadcasted globally. ;)

The smokers smoke cause it is kinda a hidden sport. There are no audiences so they ask the local audience (which is their card) if they mind. More participation and spectators = better behavior. ;)

Has anybody checked into what it would take to make a commercial to play in theaters or during sporting events to promote DG? There could be a catchy slogan along with some footage of the great ones along with kids and seniors and how the exercise would be beneficial. I am not limiting this idea to ONLY airing tournaments. I've never seen a commercial for our sport.

What is the PDGA doing to promote our sport to the mainstream, besides E.D.G.E.? Is the PDGA willing to invest money into cameras and towers to videotape major events and turn them into T.V stations ie:colleges,public access,or any other type of station? Where is the PDGA's thinking on this issue? Are they leaving all promotions for tourney's to the T.D.'s? This is not a witch hunt on the PDGA by any means, I am curious to see what is going on with promoting our diverse sport to the masses.



The PDGA does support my show to bring DG to public access stations. You can find the details at www.discgolflive.com. (http://www.discgolflive.com.)

Austin is in the midst of a public access change, but I think the stations are still operating. Check with the station about what it will take to get a show on the air, and then contact me about getting your hands on a copy of the show. New shows come out every two months. Volunteers around the country submit the show locally for broadcast, and are also welcome to submit material to be included in the program. DGL will even edit rough footage.

For others who have community TV in their towns, the same goes for you.

Most disc golfers are players, not doers. Be among the few who do what it takes to support and grow the game.

This sounds like a great resource to use Distance. What a great start. This is where it all begins. Thanks discgolflive! Maybe we could work together to create some local segments for the Austin area.

We are the PDGA. It is a member-based organization, if I understand correctly. We do what we can to support it and it does what it can to support us.
Distance and MarcuS, have you made plans to attend the disc golf/ball golf media challenge next weekend at Circle C in south Austin? From what I understand, it is getting great media exposure on the radio at this time. That is a start. Be sure to attend and perhaps call in to KLBJ. You are correct that it is good to have positive media exposure. Chris Himing is taking one step to promote our sport to the mainstream. Perhaps if we support people like Chris Himing, the TD in the media event described here, and Joe Wonder, the one doing Disc Golf Live, we will get more media support. Perhaps if they are successful, we will find the PDGA getting more involved in getting more media exposure. I do wish the PDGA would give Chris more credit for all that he has done for the sport.

Nice post Laura!

I dont know if I will be attending this event but I sure do want to. If I am there I think I will bring the video camera and digi cam to get loads of video and pics of the event. We need more coverage so we need to look within an event for people to step up and video it to at least have the data on hand. The more coverage the better the clips and the easier it is to advertise. Can you imagine if you typed in discgolf on the web and got the same results as lets say, naughty images?

Ima try to get the footage and go from there. I will send a copy to discgolflive if he can help us. I gotta get my domain going so I can put this stuff on the net. Access is everything.

With national tv coverage and recognition being the ultimate goal for tomorrow, maybe one of the things the PDGA and all of us could work for now is to try and get DG into the schools. Now we can't really expect to convert playgrounds into DG courses but if we could get at least one basket at every playground if for nothing else but for putting only. Make it like a game of "Horse" with markers at distance intervals so with every shot made, you move to the next one farther out. Sure there would probably be some problems with little kids climbing on the basket or someone getting hit in the head with a disc so maybe elementry school may not be the best but I don't see too much of a problem with middle schools and high schools. Have some type of bulletin board close by with local and PDGA activities. Sponsor special CTP throw off's and develop school teams to challenge other school teams. The main point being that the exposure is there and maybe less people will graduate not knowing what DG is. IMO one of the reasons why people watch the sports they do today is because they participated in them or wished they did when they were young. I wish my school had a basket around when I went there because maybe I would be putting better now. :(

No you wouldn't. :D

If you want disc golf to succeed in the schools, you need courses where a parent wouldn't mind taking their child.

Think about that the next time you go to your local course. If you had an 8 year old kid, would you bring them to your local course? Many would be fine. Many would not.

Furdog, you should look a little further into what has already has been done.

Most of your idea's are in motion or have been done. I think all of them?

Ask not what the PDGA can do for you, but what ytou can do for the PDGA :D

Both the EDGE program and the Disc Golf Foundation are working in their various ways to get disc golf into k-12 schools. The Foundation also has that matching basket program for colleges. In addition, Pat Govang's STEAM organization is beginning work on competitive team play that will include intercollegiate play. The PDGA (Which means all of you guys who are members!) is supporting all of these initiatives, as well as Disc Golf Live and PDGA Radio.

Further, with the recently expanded staff, we are taking the lessons learned in recent years that we are not ready to pay big bucks to an external marketing company, but instead are bringing more routine press release items and searches for national sponsorships in-house and staff managed - with a Marketing Committee of volunteers. If we have some serious, professional marketers out there who want to help out, please contact the office at (706) 261-6342.

Remember, we've had coverage recently from NPR, Business Week, Forbes Magazine, and more.

A side anecdote: I was in Washington last week at the building at One Dupont Circle which houses a lot of higher education associations. As I walked to the offices of the CIC: Council of Independent Colleges for a meeting with its president, I saw a bunch of guys fooling around in the NCAA front office, which is just next door. Since I was early, I stopped in and chatted them up, showed them a disc (I always have a disc.) and the three-minute PDGA promotional video and when I left they seemed pretty enthused. Further, it turns out that one of them was born and raised in Ann Arbor, and he's gonna go play a round with me the next time he visits his relatives! Just one more brick in the wall, eh?

If you want disc golf to succeed in the schools, you need courses where a parent wouldn't mind taking their child.

Think about that the next time you go to your local course. If you had an 8 year old kid, would you bring them to your local course? Many would be fine. Many would not.

--------------------



Not if there are any of those long-haried Freaks around! :o

You know how they are ...creeps and pervs ...... :D

C'mon Rhett you must have some thing?

I haven't laughed that hard in years ...since some long-haired freek put some thing in my drink ;)

*for those of you who don't know me...I am a long-harid freak myself .. and cosequently a creep and a perv :D

Beacause you know how all of us of the same sub group fit the stereo types... Like Hippies or Disc Golfers .... and it's not like we're biggots who are afraid to leave the house, or talk to our kids about choices or tollerance or alternatives .... right ?

I'm not talking about those few of us who already play the game and already bring our kids to the course. Reality check time: I don't drink or smoke dope but I play disc golf, and I bring my kids to the course. Hey, I even have long hair.

I guess I don't stereotype all disc golfers as long-haired pervs then, do I?

But then I already take my kids to play. There are very very few others that do.

Thank you, MarcusS.
Regarding the web coverage, I Googled disc golf and pulled up the PDGA website the very first day that I played my first couple holes. I read postings on the discussion board, looked at the calendar of events, and printed and read the rules of the game before I had completed my first full round of 18. That is the only coverage I was exposed to.

Rhett, I think you have a valid point. I have had concerns when telling people that I play disc golf, with the negative media attention that has come to the activities that happen at courses. I play the game and am not sure I would want my child (if I had one) playing with some of the people I play with on a regular basis. When I interned with an agency that works with at-risk youth, I thought about bringing a disc golf program to them. Then I thought about some of the activities that are found at disc golf courses and thought it might be bad for these already-at-risk-kids to be around. Disc golf may have been more of a negative rather than a positive influence on them.
Stereotypes are not good; however, neither are certain smells, sights, and sounds to the senses of an easily influenced youth. That is my biggest concern about the EDGE program and the reason I have not gotten fully behind it.

We have a strong local club and even though I don't have kids, if I did I wouldn't hesitate to bring them. We have mini's going on 6 out of 7 days down here during the spring & summer months and many parents bring their kids and play also. Some of our TD's will even pick up the kids when the parents are unable to bring them. There is definitely safety in numbers along with a friendly family atmosphere. I think some of the things we could teach some of our local members is that if you can't get to the bathroom in time and you really have to go right now,.....then make sure you go far enough into the woods so as not to be seen by passing motorists. /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif I don't know what the official PDGA ruling on that is but let me know because we have a sanctioned event this weekend and if I can add stokes to someone on my card, maybe I can move a little higher in the standings. :cool:

I'm not talking about those few of us who already play the game and already bring our kids to the course. Reality check time: I don't drink or smoke dope but I play disc golf, and I bring my kids to the course. Hey, I even have long hair.
I guess I don't stereotype all disc golfers as long-haired pervs then, do I?




Perhaps not all as long haired pervs Rhett, but you do constantly stereo type some of us, and therefor you stereo type all of us. That is the point.

I know you have long hair, that was why I chose that example.



But then I already take my kids to play. There are very very few others that do.




If it's not you, then who are you complaining for?
To me, your constantly bringing this to everyones attention is worse that the thing itself. In doing that, you help perpetuate the stereo type.

Maybe if you stop looking for it so hard, you'll stop seeing it so much?

Des Moines will be airing a commercial the week before our NT event. The following was from our Feb. 10th Monthly Club Meeting minutes which you can find on: http://www.dsmdiscgolf.org/index.cfm?fuseaction=clubminutes
**********************
NT Advertising Campaign:
Jason Schippers reported that he has a friend who is going to help him make a commercial using the John Richard photos from Worlds. We received permission from the PDGA to use the photos for the commercial as long as we give credit to John Richard/PDGA. The cost of making the commercial is a six-pack of beer, which Jason is donating to the cause. The commercial is going to promote disc golf, our club, and the NT event.

Then Jason said he looked into it and we have to make the commitment now to purchase our ad space for our commercials. For $500.00 we are getting 100 commercials aired on the TV Guide Channel the week leading up to the Greater Des Moines Challenge. In addition, we get 30 ads aired on Spike TV in prime time. Jason made a motion for us to approve this expense and we all voted and agreed to purchase the ads.
*********
Jason works at an advertising firm and we are lucky to have him as our Publicity Director.

In addition, we get 30 ads aired on Spike TV in prime time.



That's what I'm talking about. :cool: Good job! :D:D

Then I thought about some of the activities that are found at disc golf courses and thought it might be bad for these already-at-risk-kids to be around. Disc golf may have been more of a negative rather than a positive influence on them.
Stereotypes are not good; however, neither are certain smells, sights, and sounds to the senses of an easily influenced youth. That is my biggest concern about the EDGE program and the reason I have not gotten fully behind it.



Ya'll need to be reminded that EVERY sport/game has individuals who smoke dope, drink, cuss, etc. You can't blame "illegal substances" on the fact that DG hasn't grown! Look at the skateboarders and surfers - they're rep for partying is even worse than ours yet they're still getting the coverage we're not. Some don't even wear shirts either and it's allowed. So those of you blaming pot smokers and drinkers and non-shirt wearers - you need to remember all of the other games/sports where it's even more prevalent, yet still get coverage.

I agree that most don't want to see it grow! Who wants the waiting time on crowded courses like De La and San Diego, just to name 2???

Also remember that kids will do what kids will do - regardless of their environment. Examples: There's folks brought up in strict religious homes who have not had painful childhoods who still are addicted to something. And there's people brought up in absolutely horrible childhoods who turn their lives around to be productive members of society.

Yeah, stereotyping is bad so ya'll need to find other excuses as to why DG hasn't "grown."

John,

I don't go looking for it. I would just like the same consideration that the proponents of said acitvities say they want: leave me alone in regards to it. I don't do it. It's illegal. I don't want to be in a four-some where the law is being broken. That's it. I don't care what anybody does on their own time, but please don't be actively breaking the law within 20 feet, or even 100 feet, of me. It doesn't seem like an unreasonable request to me, but it obviously must be very unreasonable.

Rhett that certainly is NOT to much to ask. Unfortunately it happens all of the time. When I lived in OK a friend of mine would take his kid out for rounds with us. I tried to be mindfull, but when the kids own father is smoking, give me a break. Parents wonder why their kids grow up to be chitbags???? :confused:

If you don't want it around you, then you should probably also not attend any concerts, or football games, or go watch ball golf or go to the beach or even, heck, driving down the freeway! I see it all the time. It is unreasonable because it is human nature. Yes, it is illegal in most states but in Cali, it's as severe as the price of a traffic ticket... and I know you're all not saints and have sped before, or run a red light. Sheesh, bunch of whining babies. Better keep your kids out of high school and college too b/c that's where they'll get the most "education" on partying!! Hell, tie them up and throw them in the closet. It's the only way you're going to keep them away from the "chitbags" of this planet. My gawd.

Rhett that certainly is NOT to much to ask. Unfortunately it happens all of the time. When I lived in OK a friend of mine would take his kid out for rounds with us. I tried to be mindfull, but when the kids own father is smoking, give me a break. Parents wonder why their kids grow up to be chitbags???? :confused:



In other words since the kids own father was smoking - what the heck you smoked too. You didn't have the guts to make a moral stand when your devil stood in front of you.

Do you think disguising your ugly words to get them past the [inappropriate word] makes them any less ugly?

As a self described slacker (chk the profile), thoughtless poster and gutless citizen what positive contribution are you making? Is cambagger another MarcusSS alias??

That's ridiculous. Terry you go too far. [inappropriate word] is
c-e-n-s-o-r.

<font color="red"> [That was just for fun. It's okay to use now.]</font>

Did I say I smoked JackAzzz? Take the Caulk out of your mouth I can't hear you. I try not to swear around kids either, just as I would hope people would have enough respect to do the same for me.

Please don't get personal, you've no room to talk chit. This is a "disc golf" chat. You have a rating UNDER 900, and a PDGA# from the 30's. Certainly you have no room to speak.

People, people, people! Can we get back on topic? Take it down to the misc thread/ribbing room.

Beckyz in Iowa, How the heck do you get 100 airs for $500....cause of the friend or is that a standard rate for tv guide channel? That is really awesome. It also makes me wonder if it is that cheap what is going on that the PDGA couldn't do this. Did they just not know about how or what to do or never thought about it.

Also if somebody wants to post anything on this not realted to topic please go somwhere else and thread drift.

We would be very interested in this type of promotion for the 06 AM Worlds here in Tulsa. I guess I better start doing my home work.

I had never considered it, thinking that it would be way above what our budget would allow.

If anyone has footage, I can clean it up really well and make DVD's. I can even do the new double layer DVD's. I have access to all sorts of utilities that could really make the footage look professional. We also have a place to host them if you want online access.

My girlfriend is coming to alot of my tournaments this year and she is a pretty **** good photographer. She will be taking TONS of pictures and some videos from all the tournaments that we go to if your interested in those pics and footage on your site. They will be of all players not just myself. Hopefully Ill have 50 or more by the end of the weekend.

Please do. The more media the better. Once it is posted globally it will spread like wild fire. I am tired of doing a search for disc golf photos and only pulling up a couple of pages. We need to blanket the net with our sport. It will do wonders for it.

I am going to set up an ftp server at the house and I will create some accounts by request.

I�m speculating our low cost may be because of our market size. Des Moines and suburbs only have a population of 500,000 and our state is 3 million. And it will only be showing on cable. Another reason may be we were quoted for the rates and paid for it in the middle of February and they aren�t being aired until the week of June 13th.

Jason himself came up with the idea of the commercial. Jason�s young and graduated from college a few years ago with his marketing and advertising degree. But it was mentioned by Rodney Gardner back in 1998 when he lived in Des Moines and was a club member. We are thrilled it has finally come to fruition because of Jason Schippers. Check out this old discussion thread before we had the pdga.com discussion board. Here is the original thread:

http://tinyurl.com/ddgoe

Both Todd Branch (a former Competition Director) and John Chapman (present Competition Director) commented on it. Can you believe it was 1998?!?!!

I personally think the PDGA hasn�t had the time or resources in the past to develop and commit to commercials. It was interesting reading in a recent issue of Disc Golf World News, Lorrie Gibson�s article in the PDGA pages. She explained how the PDGA was run out of their home and about how she and Brian used to do much by hand. Maybe once the new National Disc Golf Center is up and running and there are funds available, some resources could be devoted for commercials on a national level. But in the meantime, maybe clubs might look into the costs in their areas to help promote the sport.

I also have had this dream that someday Iowa would catch up to Texas and have a hundred courses. We may just do it this year. And another dream would be to have a hundred courses in each and every state. Then we would be for sure mainstream and people would really know about disc golf!

The members and players would have to want to go to the next level first.


A truer thing could not be said.

John,

I don't go looking for it. I would just like the same consideration that the proponents of said acitvities say they want: leave me alone in regards to it. I don't do it. It's illegal. I don't want to be in a four-some where the law is being broken. That's it. I don't care what anybody does on their own time, but please don't be actively breaking the law within 20 feet, or even 100 feet, of me. It doesn't seem like an unreasonable request to me, but it obviously must be very unreasonable.


So it's reasonable to assume that when we are riding along in a car going 66 in a 65 zone you would on principle jump out of the car then, right?

WOW! I'm,impressed,frustrated,and optimistic all balled up in one.

Kudos to your guy Jason...wtg.

I believe your dream will come true not only do you guys have quanity but I've heard that you also have quality courses.

I'm going to do some local research and may call on your club for some advice. Thanx for your response BeckyZ.

I have been transferring some of my old photos and video to DVD. The problem I am having is finding suitable royalty free audio for background music.

No drifting please. Thanks! ;)

off topic;
this has degenerated to a flame war;


Please don't get personal, you've no room to talk chit. This is a "disc golf" chat. You have a rating UNDER 900, and a PDGA# from the 30's. Certainly you have no room to speak.



I rest my case concerning your lack of relevance and lack of moral fiber. I could easily add an apparent lack of intelligence also. Oh I did didn't I?

Man you're brilliant! Are you the one behind the curtain they said not to paty attention to?

I have been transferring some of my old photos and video to DVD. The problem I am having is finding suitable royalty free audio for background music.



I think "The Ride of the Valkyries" is public domain :D

So it's reasonable to assume that when we are riding along in a car going 66 in a 65 zone you would on principle jump out of the car then, right?


Did I say that I walk off the course and DNF when that stuff happens? I'm pretty sure I didn't say that at all.

So it's reasonable to assume that when we are riding along in a car going 66 in a 65 zone you would on principle jump out of the car then, right?


Did I say that I walk off the course and DNF when that stuff happens? I'm pretty sure I didn't say that at all.



Are you always this much fun?

gnduke, maybe Justin Landers and his band would be willing to do a soundtrack for your DVD. just a thought.

I've asked a couple of local bands. They were not opposed to the idea, but they never got around to giving me anything.

I haven't gotten around to gathering any video (too busy playing), but it is a project I would be interested in.

I know Cambagger personally and was there when he began playing DG, long before he passed up the rest of us in our division. I'm willing to vouch for his integrity and character, the way he acts around children, as well as the topic on which he speaks. I was IN the 4 group with the guy who freaked when someone else broke their smoking crap out of their bag, and am willing to say that I didn't turn the guy in for the discretion, so am willing to take my lumps for it. Cam's right...until SOME people are willing to leave this junk in their car for the two hours they're playing their round, this issue will not be resolved, and the credibility of DG will suffer.
As I said, I was in that group, and did nothing to correct the discretion. I will not be so complacent the next time. Hopefully in the future others are willing to stand up and do the same.

Pablo