Is it allowable for a TD to host a PDGA-sanctioned C-Tier event (or any other Tier for that matter) with attendance limited to only people specifically invited?

Or, do events have to be available and open to anyone (PDGA member or not) on a first come, first served basis? I know that for A-Tier and up, competitors must be current members.

I can not find this addressed anywhere in PDGA documents.

I do not know.


In my opinon, invitation only should be legal. As long as sanctioning requirements are met, it should be fine.

usdgc, am nationals, players cup, mediocre nationals are all by invitation. seems like a precedent to me.

I think there might be a distinction between an event where players have published opportunities to earn invites versus say an event called Biscoe's Buddies where you have to be in your Rolodex to get in. The only precedent I can recall so far is the PDGA backs private property owners who wish to exclude certain players from a sanctioned event on their property.

But if I wanted to have a tourney, and only invite current paid club members of my DG club, why couldn't I do that as long as I met all sanctioning requirments? I should not be forced to open it to the public if I dont want. If that is the case, I would just not sanction it, but that is just me.

Perhaps the PDGA would sanction it as an XC-tier for Xclusive.

nice!

I want to run an x-tier, but it will be a glow tourney.
Hopefully in 06...Efrain and I will get this together...

I think there might be a distinction between an event where players have published opportunities to earn invites versus say an event called Biscoe's Buddies where you have to be in your Rolodex to get in. The only precedent I can recall so far is the PDGA backs private property owners who wish to exclude certain players from a sanctioned event on their property.



I was going to ask this too in my original post, but I can not find anywhere (Sanctioning Agreement or Tour Standards) where there is mention that it is against the rules for a TD to disallow a player in competing in their event. ie, Timmy TD will not let Joe Schmoe to play in his PDGA sanctioned event because Joe is a schmoe and Timmy and his friends can not stand Joe.

It would make sense that PDGA members who are current and in good standing with the PDGA would have to be allowed the chance to register for and play in any PDGA sanctioned event of his/her choice (assuming they registered on time). But.....where is a TD forced/encouraged to sign up to this requirement?

Don't forget MADCi and Southern Nationals, or the Worlds!

Is it allowable for a TD to host a PDGA-sanctioned C-Tier event (or any other Tier for that matter) with attendance limited to only people specifically invited?

Or, do events have to be available and open to anyone (PDGA member or not) on a first come, first served basis? I know that for A-Tier and up, competitors must be current members.

I can not find this addressed anywhere in PDGA documents.

The PDGA has sanctioned a lot of invitational tournaments, and not just Majors. Several times the MDGO Finals have been by invitation or qualification only. I know of other club championship tournaments that are invitational or members-only and PDGA sanctioned. They request that invitationals and member-only tournaments be clearly advertised as such.

I know of a club-members-only free tournament this year. They could not afford to run a free tournament for the everyone.

Finally, there is nothing that suggests that a TD could not adopt a system other than first paid, first in. If our tournament series continues to grow in attendance in 2006, we are thinking of using a priority system where pre-registered players are guaranteed a spot, but advanced and pro rated players have bumping rights over non-members and up-players who register on Saturday to play on Advanced/Pro Saturday.

Bump-rights sukk donkey. I believe you should never ever ever bump somebody who you have accepted into the tournament in favor of someone (no matter who they are) who couldn't be bothered to sign up until the last minute.

Establishing "priority registration" where you only accept entries from club members until such and such date, and then you accept others is fine.

But accepting someone's entry only to bump them later is, IMHO, a terrible thing to do.

I want to run an x-tier, but it will be a glow tourney.
Hopefully in 06...Efrain and I will get this together...



That would be awesome. What course are you guys considering? The Kitty?

Gonzalez would be a great Glow Tourney course

The PDGA Constitution provides that, ordinarily, a PDGA member in good standing has a right to compete in any and all PDGA-sanctioned tournaments.

That being said, the PDGA Tour Event Sanctioning Agreement appears to provide a mechanism whereby an event TD may prohibit otherwise eligible PDGA members from competing in his/her tournament, provided that the TD obtain prior, express permission from the PDGA to do so:
Local Conditions:
Per the terms of this agreement, PDGA TDs will enforce the PDGA Rules of Play. <font color="red">If there are any local conditions regarding this event which would restrict</font> the enforcement of any PDGA rule or <font color="red">the participation of an otherwise eligible PDGA member</font>, please provide details:


Note further that TDs:
� agree that if any provision in this agreement or any Rule of Play is unacceptable the TD shall contact the PDGA Competition Director to seek a waiver. Specifically, <font color="red">clearance is required at the time of sanctioning for any local conditions which would restrict</font> the enforcement of any PDGA rule or <font color="red">the participation of an otherwise eligible PDGA Member</font>. If no waiver is granted this agreement and the Rules of Play are binding. (p. 4)


Based on that provision, it appears that a TD of a sanctioned tournament may limit eligibility to a list of invited players, provided that the tournament is sanctioned as an invitational tournament.

Bump-rights sukk donkey. I believe you should never ever ever bump somebody who you have accepted into the tournament in favor of someone (no matter who they are) who couldn't be bothered to sign up until the last minute.

Establishing "priority registration" where you only accept entries from club members until such and such date, and then you accept others is fine.

But accepting someone's entry only to bump them later is, IMHO, a terrible thing to do.

Bump rights do sukk for the player being bumped. In our context, they can come back tomorrow and play. The guy who they cut in front of in line can't. I'm not certain why being able to run the fastest from your car to the registration table is a better qualification for being allowed in the advanced pool than, say, having an advanced rating.

Thanks Felix. I had a feeling you might be the one to give the clarity on this. Funny how I can read a document and skim over this, but how a little red highlighting can illuminate it for me. It is kind of buried in there and I think I keyed in on the words "local conditions". That conotated a different meaning to me than when I read it again with your explanation. Thanks.

I want to run an x-tier, but it will be a glow tourney.
Hopefully in 06...Efrain and I will get this together...



That would be awesome. What course are you guys considering? The Kitty?

Gonzalez would be a great Glow Tourney course



I will talk to you about it this weekend!!! should be a ton of fun!! :D

Bump rights do sukk for the player being bumped. In our context, they can come back tomorrow and play. The guy who they cut in front of in line can't. I'm not certain why being able to run the fastest from your car to the registration table is a better qualification for being allowed in the advanced pool than, say, having an advanced rating.


I guess this is a regional difference because all of our am tournaments typically fill at least one week prior to tee-off. In my world, your bump scenario means that Jim PlanAhead with an Int rating signs up 3 weeks before the event, has his entry accepted, and makes plans to attend the tournament on the scheduled day(s). Then Joe IdidntHaveTheMoneyLastWeek with an advanced rating shows up on the morning of and bumps Jim.

If your tournaments never fill up and everyone registers at the last second on the day of the event, then that is quite different.

So are you saying that you will bump pre-registered early signups in favor of last second non-planners? If so, there are a bunch of guys who might buy you a house in SoCal so that you can run tourneys out here. :)

That is not the rule I described. Don't go Nicky on me! :D


we are thinking of using a priority system where pre-registered players are guaranteed a spot, but advanced and pro rated players have bumping rights over non-members and up-players who register on Saturday to play on Advanced/Pro Saturday.

But maybe I was not clear. We would not bump pre-registered players. We are talking about players who don't pre-register for a tournament where pros and advanced play Saturday and Intermediates and Recs play Sunday. The intermediates and recs who show up to play up without pre-registering would be bumped by pros and advanced who cannot play the next day.

I guess I'll start reading your entire posts before replying to them. :o :D

usdgc, am nationals, players cup, mediocre nationals are all by invitation. seems like a precedent to me.



What a D ick

I want to come to the Biscoe's Buddies tournament. Mark me down for the the "kinda really sucky" division. /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

usdgc, am nationals, players cup, mediocre nationals are all by invitation. seems like a precedent to me.



What a D ick



i just love being called clever slip by the [I'm a potty-mouth!] names by folks who don't know me. up yours b itch.

vince- is that the kinda really sucky amber div or the really kinda sucky off white div? it is amazing you can say sucky on here when you can't say c e n s o r. what a brave new world we have here at pdga.com, maybe i should go by john savage. where's the soma when you need it?

vince- is that the kinda really sucky amber div or the really kinda sucky off white div? it is amazing you can say sucky on here when you can't say c e n s o r. what a brave new world we have here at pdga.com, maybe i should go by john savage. where's the soma when you need it?



Now THAT is funny! Propers to you for the B.N.W. reference.

John's just telling the truth since so far only the USDGC does not confer any titles below the top (or 'mediocre' titles if you're arrogant). We've had the (mediocre) Am Worlds, (mediocre) Am Nationals and (mediocre) Pro Worlds (unless you enter Open) for years. At least the top division at the new Mid-Nationals has a higher average rating than the top division at Am Nationals or Am Worlds so we're at least improving the 'mediocrity' standard :)

John,

I am disappointed in your attack on another promoters efforts?

Since not all the best players attend any of your events, can we label them all "sucky"? Why do you invite "sucky" players to your "VA Team Invitational"? No wait, you actually REQUIRE that teams be 88% made up of "sucky" players. Should we refer to it as the "Sucky VA Team Invitational"?

You have taken a regretable tact on this in my opinion. Particularly since you are an innovative disc golf promoter yourself.

Nick

am worlds/nationals- the best ams with respect to different static parameters (sex/age)

pro worlds/usdgc/us masters/women's nationals- the best pros with respect to different static parameters (sex/age)

mid-nationals- not the best of anything beyond an arbitrary parameter.

it is my belief that the static parameters (sex/age/pro or am status) nicely cover the realm of players for major events. adding more merely devalues the ones we already have.

nick- please don't attempt to divert my belief that this event should not be a major into a general attack on players other than the cream of the crop. nothing can be further from the truth as you likely already well know.

hell, i am one of these mediocre players (957) and it takes some really (not just kinda) sucky play to achieve that. i certainly don't feel i deserve to actually compete for a major championship. i have played in some and will play in more but i doubt i will ever be competitive with the best in them. i am fine with that.

i am sure the highbridge complex will be beautiful and the event will be well run and everyone in attendance will have a great time. i am not attempting to put chuck or anyone else down on a personal level (well, prior to kojak). chuck's contributions to disc golf are indisputable whether i always agree with him or not.

Sex and age are vastly more arbitrary than ratings. Ask any doctor or geneticist. Compare the ratings distribution of any 10 year age group. The skill overlap is probably more than 80%. Compare any group of women in a certain age bracket with men in the same age bracket. The overlap is greater than 50%. Take players in any adjacent 50-point ratings ranges. Even if you feel the ratings system is grossly in accurate, the overlap will be less than 20%. Actually, we'll have a good test at the Mid-Nationals, Am and Pro Worlds to confirm or adjust those figures. Ratings is the least arbitrary of any grouping system out there.