You can delete my threads all you want, but don't change my words! You may think that is some cute joke, but I don't appreciate ANY of my words being edited.

<font color="red"> [I changed your title because it disparaged the PDGA. We not only do not 'appreciate' it when you use PDGA resources to publicly disparage the PDGA, we don't allow it - and I will edit any thread topics that begin in such a way. (Or, perhaps, remove them.) Your new title has also been changed as it included name-calling.]</font>

Abuse your power some other way! Or at least have the balls to PM me.

<font color="red"> [I meant to PM you with a 'warning' but I got busy with day job stuff. Too bad, 'cause the PM I just sent could have been more than a warning if I had followed through on that.]</font>

Pot... meet kettle!

I seem to remember a bit of thread-title changing in your history, Oh Whorley One... something about AMs being paid Cash $kins in Asheville... Hmmmmmmm. :eek: :D

Completely different situation. In your example I started new responses with different names.

In this situation someone has actually changed/edited what I wrote. Now it looks like I started a thread that says "Whining Time."

You must not care if your words and thoughts are edited and changed.

The PDGA--55 bucks gets you a membership card, a quarterly magazine, access to the message board, and a player rating... The magazine and player rating are usually innacurate and outdated, the message board is cen5ored by the BOD, but that membership card is SWEET!

Thanks, I needed a laugh!

You must not care if your words and thoughts are edited and changed.




And here is the bite. I made no mention of my own opinion on editing and changing of thread titles. As to whether I care or not is not the issue up for debate - rather your own dislike of the practice... a practice that you have participated in previously on your own accord.

Please note that I have just changed the title of this thread for your viewing pleasure! :cool::D

I'd have to agree, that is extremely lame. Pathetically lame actually. They are so freakin sensitive that they would stoop to changing thread titles.

Here's a hint: if you think critical subject matter is misdirected or unsubstantiated criticism, respond to it and expose it. Ironically, the act of changing the thread title almost confirms the accuracy of the original title.

Not my place to argue, but since Im having fun:
I would say that changing your own post title and having your post title changed by the ones who you are criticizing are very different instances.

.....the message board is cen5ored by the BOD



Why didn't you just type censore[/b]d ?

My opinion on thread titles is that they are mutable. With each new post to a thread the title can be changed by the poster in order to make a point or raise awareness. Perhaps it is simply the poster in this particular instance who was "gutless" - will you conceed that the act of changing a thread title, in and of itself, is not necessarily rude?

Do you really think the BOD in general are the ones trying to control the board ?

he did it that way so the idi[/b]ot cens[/b]or na[/b]zi wouldnt notice it :D

girlie, the POST title can be changed. the THREAD title in the left column of the main page cannot (SHOULD not) be changed. i agree with whorley - this is like changing his words, and uncalled for.

Why didn't you just type [I'm a potty-mouth!] ?



Because it is a dirty word. :confused:

or is it

Because it is a dirty word? :confused:



Anyways, now that you have typed the unmentionable, you now must wash your fingers with soap. :D

I'm sorry but censore[/b]d should not be censore[/b]d!

You can tell who edited the post, just read whats written under Whorley's first post.

I agree, potty fingers. :D

Thanks for the heads up Sandalman - I did not know that there was a Thread/Post title difference.

I agree in that i want my words as posted or spoken to remain as I originally posted or spoke them - unfortunately, I have been quoted in the newspaper before - and it just doesn't happen that way. ;)

You don't get it. They actually manipulated what I typed. The literally put words in my mouth. They could easily change the title of my thread to "Vince Whorley is in the KKK!" and looked like I wrote it!

I understand what you are saying, but you are talking about making responses to people with new titles. A situation in which no one's words are being edited/changed.

(BTW I edited this post because I forgot the word 'about')

I keep thinking new threads are being composed. :D

You can tell who edited the post, just read whats written under Whorley's first post.


That "edited by..." wasn't there originally or I wouldn't have made this public.

It still doesn't change the fact that he put words in my mouth.

And shake it for me My Hero!!!

Shake it like a polaroid picture...
Shake it
Shake it
Yeah!

Sorry you're being f'd with Whorley - yah know I heart yah babes~! :D

Now they could say that, attribute it to you and be completely correct.

Wow...doesn't seem okay by me...now who would have the power to change thread titles.....

Sorry you're being f'd with Whorley - yah know I heart yah babes~! :D



Thanks, I appreciate your point of view any time. No hard feelings. I respect anyone that has the willingness to express their opinion.

They could "say what"?

Personally, I don't see how having "edited by Terry Calhoun" makes it any more tolerable. Just respond to it, refute it, expose it, ignore it, or better yet, learn from it; but changing someone's words and providing your spin to the title is so small.

nevermind my stupidity...I went back and saw the edited by line...now maybe I should do something I am good at...lunchtime! :cool:

They could quote the line he put in his post as an example of an extreme alteration, and correctly attribute the quote to him.

Being quoted out of context isn't exactly rare.

Being quoted out of context is impossible.



I have no idea what you're talking about. :D

"Vince Whorley is in the KKK!"




when did the klan start recruiting hippies? :o

[I'm a potty-mouth!]- it just kills me that [I'm a potty-mouth!] is [I'm a potty-mouth!]. where is yossarian? :D

Don't quite understand what is going on ??

I hope this Vince fellow is not in the KKK........
I don't think this is the time and place to be expounding one's views about subjects like that !!

If I am understanding this correctly the PDGA is trying change a Thread title that says this Vince fellow is part of the KKK or
what ???
I am confused !!

That would totally be uncool !!!!

I hope we can Post threads without the worry of someone changing them in here.

If I am understanding this correctly the PDGA is trying change a Thread title that says this Vince fellow is part of the KKK or
what ???


No No No, it's OK for Vince to be in the KKK, I don't think he can be a [I'm a potty-mouth!] (natzi)though. He also can't be critical of PDGA policies or say [I'm a potty-mouth!], [I'm a potty-mouth!] or [I'm a potty-mouth!]. :p

Don't quite understand what is going on ??




Whorley started a thread that was entitled something along the lines of "The PDGA is ruining disc golf."

Moderator Terry Calhoun changed the title of the thread to "Whining Time." Although I think Terry was just funning around, now it looks like Whorley started a thread called "Whining Time."

Again, I think Terry was just having some fun but Whorley seems a little cheesed off now. Although I certainly don't blame him and I know that if that other moderator, (The Message Board N.A.Z.I.) did that to me, I would be livid.

I got you !!! That clears it up for me.
I mean if this Whorely fellow wants to voice his opinions about being with the KKK there are other Message Boards more appropriate than here. He shouldn't be upset because the PDGA won't go along with his questionable views. I am sure many here including some minorities wouldn't appreciate it.

But then again I must say I don't like the PDGA changing the thread and putting words in his mouth.
Just delete the bigotry filled Post and be gone with it.

I think it's hilarious they changed your thread title.
It's their world, you're just playing in it.

I think the PDGA should include an industrial sized bottle of Midol & some STAYFREE� Deodorant Maxi with wings (they have wings, they can fly) with the membership.
I have seriously never seen a bigger bunch of whiners in all my life.
You want to know what's "ruining" disc golf....? It's people that feel they have to complain about EVERYTHING.

Maybe take up something a little less stressfull like competitive crochet & cross-stitch..

I think I'll stick with casual play & forget about any tournament play if this is the way people are.

I mean if this Whorely fellow wants to voice his opinions about being with the KKK...



Are you serious? Don't call me whorely(sic) and DON'T EVEN JOKE ABOUT THE KKK. I am sickened that you could misread my arguments and think I'm ethnocentric or bigoted.

I regret using that hypothetical example. Go back and read my statements slowly.

Better yet, go to bed. The school bus will be there early in the morning to pick you up. Ask your teacher if you will learn comprehensive reading and spelling this school year.

New free uncensored message board is soon on the way. www.**************.com (http://www.**************.com)

I have had some set back that has eaten up my time but I am ready to get this thing live soon.

Terry, if you changed his title then YOU SIR ARE WRONG. Just stop it already. It seams like every month or so you do something that is just not right. I know it was probably no biggie but put yourself in this guys shoes. It is a huge deal.

Oh, and Terry, Please dont delete my post cause I mentioned my site. That is lame. Cant we all get along like the family the PDGA boasts about being. We are all promoting the same thing. :cool:

...You want to know what's "ruining" disc golf....? It's people that feel they have to complain about EVERYTHING... I think I'll stick with casual play & forget about any tournament play if this is the way people are.



Better yet, why don't you just go play in China or N. Vietnam where you don't have to worry about people with opinions--because they're dead.

You know what I think is hilarious? You belittling my opinion while you hide behind an anonymous name.

My name is Vince Whorley and, though it may frighten you, I've got an opinion.

It is a huge deal.



I disagree.


This PDGA-sponsored board does not guarantee freedom of speech. Messages containing profanity, inflammatory comments, or other offensive content may be removed at the discretion of the board monitors



While his thread title may not contain profanity/etc it still can be edited at their discretion. (free speech is NOT guaranteed)
I'm sure everyone read the rules before joining.

Good luck with the new forum. I may even join but do you think it will get the traffic this one does?

I think I'll stay in the Equipment &amp; Technique sections from now on.


(edit)

Better yet, why don't you just go play in China or N. Vietnam where you don't have to worry about people with opinions--because they're dead.


http://www.clicksmilies.com/s0105/lachen/laughing-smiley-001.gif http://www.clicksmilies.com/s0105/lachen/laughing-smiley-001.gif

Remember...... this is only a game. Actually this is only a discussion forum regarding a game.

I chose an "anonymous" name just as a name to use on the forums.
My name is Brian Johnson. Have ya heard of me? Didn't think so

Please do go to the Equipment thread as I am trying to unload some discs.

As far as traffic goes, I think if we give the people what they want it will stand strong among the online society.

Sounds like the PDGA is the new axis of evil......


:eek: :D

My name is Brian Johnson. Have ya heard of me? Didn't think so





aren't you the original disc pimp?? :D

The fact that Terry can edit posts at will does not mean it is not an abuse of power if he edits at whim.

I totally agree. Although he is a good guy, I still think the actions are overboard. Its not hard to admit fault but if you pick a part paragraphs in responses the apology is never there. Give up the psycho analogies Terry and just be one of us golfers. Climb down off of the pedestool and be a part of the group.

I know a little bit about Terry's life...he doesn't have time to climb on any pedestals!

I think it's hilarious they changed your thread title.
It's their world; you're just playing in it.

I think the PDGA should include an industrial sized bottle of Midol & some STAYFREE� Deodorant Maxi with wings (they have wings, they can fly) with the membership.
I have seriously never seen a bigger bunch of whiners in all my life.
You want to know what's "ruining" disc golf....? It's people that feel they have to complain about EVERYTHING.

Maybe take up something a little less stressful like competitive crochet & cross-stitch..

I think I'll stick with casual play & forget about any tournament play if this is the way people are.



Brian,

Come on out to a PDGA of your choosing. Yes, there are whiners there too, but:

A) The ratio is more like 1:90 and not 70:90 like here on the bored mess.
B) Malcontent whiners tend to clam up at events. (A particularly convenient trait, I must say.)
C) No one should let a few sad people keep him or her from the joys of competitive PDGA golf. They�re not worth it�

A spot of common ground with Nick Kight...maybe he isn't so bad after all :DSeriously though he is right. Don't let the message board discourage you from tournies. Most of the people on the board just have too much time on their hands with nothing better to do than msgboard troll. You probably won't find more than one or two of us at any given tournament (for the most part with exception).

At any rate, the only thing I whine about during a round is how I never learned how to putt. On here I have been known to whine about whiners, 2 meter rule changes, differences in throwing at elevation, blah, blah...

B) Malcontent whiners tend to clam up at events. (A particularly convenient trait, I must say.)



But when they do speak up, as you requested, you go whimpering and crying to the Marshall and the Tournament Director that they "got into your head." What a crybaby you are!

****, y'all sure are hostile to each other. :D

Nick, whining/standing up/insert your favorite spin is perfectly natural when someone did what Terry did. However, whining about people standing up for themselves is intolerable. ;)

People who get walked on and screwed over, all the while with a smile on their face, they sure are admirable.

B) Malcontent whiners tend to clam up at events. (A particularly convenient trait, I must say.)



But when they do speak up, as you requested, you go whimpering and crying to the Marshall and the Tournament Director that they "got into your head." What a crybaby you are!



Stop blaming it on other people and take ownership of what you say and do. You did not behave appropriately and were told as much. Simple. Not the big deal you apparently wish it to be.

I think it's hilarious they changed your thread title.
It's their world, you're just playing in it.

I think the PDGA should include an industrial sized bottle of Midol & some STAYFREE� Deodorant Maxi with wings (they have wings, they can fly) with the membership.
I have seriously never seen a bigger bunch of whiners in all my life.
You want to know what's "ruining" disc golf....? It's people that feel they have to complain about EVERYTHING.

Maybe take up something a little less stressfull like competitive crochet & cross-stitch..

I think I'll stick with casual play & forget about any tournament play if this is the way people are.




Yes, this is a good one. Oldtyme's complaining about complainers. I love it!

Stop blaming it on other people and take ownership of what you say and do. You did not behave appropriately and were told as much.



You whine that no one ever says anything to your face in real life. Someone got a disc stuck 40 feet up in a tree (which you say never happens) during a tournament and I pointed it out to you. And then you complained to the Marshall and the TD that I "got in your head." What a sissy! You couldn't say anything to me like a man? Just because you paid money to play in a tournament doesn't mean that I have to wait until the end of the round to say what's on my mind. I didn't think I behaved inappropriately and would have done it again given the chance. I'll continue to do so in the future.

I changed your title because it disparaged the PDGA. It is not permitted to use PDGA resources to publicly disparage the PDGA and I will edit any thread topics that begin in such a way.

Your new title has also been changed as it included name-calling.

Disparaged the PDGA? :confused:

What about about the idea that introspection leads to strength?


It is not permitted to use PDGA resources to publicly disparage the PDGA


This is laughably sad. You work at University of Michigan correct? If so, do they have a student newspaper, and if so, must the editorial board kowtow to the adminstration's policies or can they actually voice their own views?

We are a private club. I love criticism, and I love new and different ideas, but when the PDGA is disparaged here - often in generalities - then it does harm to the organization, while using its resources.

If/When we get a members-only set of threads, then it's a whole new ball game. Inside such a forum, where there are only members, that would be fine.

But right now anyone can read this stuff and DISCussion may not be used to *publicly* disparage the PDGA.

Remember what that thread was named? And how it appeared right on the front page of DISCussion? "Ebay isn't ruining disc golf . . . the PDGA is ruining disc golf"

Instead of the University of Michigan, think PGA: Would the PGA permit that kind of posting if they had such a forum, open to the public. I think not, and for good reason.

If any of this bee-ess being perpetrated by Terry had anything to do with the PDGA, I would be in get-even mode. Fortunately, this whole thing is more of a real-life example of how power corrupts and turns nice people into petty tyrants.

Big fish in a drinking glass.

I cant believe it is so hard to say "sorry, but I feel this was in the best interest of the organizations resources you are using." There you go. Who can argue with that?

Now your choice of replacement titles and mockery of the poster there is no excuse for. That was just wrong. I could care less if it was humorous or not but the professionalism went right out the door when you chose this kind of abuse.

Abuse + more abuse = solution? Hardly. Now can we just move on and shake hands? :confused:

When you whine
When you whine
The whole world whines with you

Much to-do about nothing.

Terry for President!

"Controlling your perceptions through better manipulation!"

You can pretty much say and do what you want on here and nothing happens, we all know that. People can bad mouth the PDGA, get "banned", "rebanned", "rebanned" again, and then "rebanned" again and you can still come on here bad mouth the PDGA, the members and disc golf in general. If you say the right words you can get reinstated. So this should be a suprise to no one. There were months of bad mouthing the PDGA and nothing happened. I find it amusing that Terry would say he would not tolerate it.

I love disc golf, the PDGA and most disc golfers....but something really needs to change before this thing goes down in flames.

Rules are put in place for the users, and still nothing is done. Are there rules for the monitors. I think it needs to be made clear exactly what is expected from the users and the monitors, because the rules they have now are open to anyones interpretation and they are not working.

�You can pretty much say and do what you want on here and nothing happens, we all know that. People can bad mouth the PDGA, get "banned", "rebanned", "rebanned" again, and then "rebanned" again and you can still come on here bad mouth the PDGA, the members and disc golf in general.�



If getting banned and re-banned and hunted down like a pack rat is �nothing happens� then what are you stating about the PDGA�s volunteers?


You can�t enforce using words. If you don�t have the means to enforce them then don�t trot around like you can. I think I have been stressing this for a while. I state that I could not be kicked off this board because I know this to be fact. Without the proper "TEAM" to enforce the security then why would the few select mods and BOD members try to insinuate otherwise. I tell you why, to try to make an example to the rest. I'm sorry for all the things I have said in the past out of haste. I truly see how stupid and a waste of energy it was. I did show them that I am not the average bear though as I stated when I first came on this board, but in all�. I was in the wrong. I have no problem admitting that. Get a notepad Terry.


�There were months of bad mouthing the PDGA and nothing happened. I find it amusing that Terry would say he would not tolerate it.�



Terry for the most part does an outstanding job on this forum. There is no possible way that he alone or with his crew, can tackle the goose chase I put them through. I was only getting started. He had faith in me and I in him and this is what ended the animosity between the BOD and myself.


�I love disc golf, the PDGA and most disc golfers....but something really needs to change before this thing goes down in flames.�



The only thing bringing this board down in flames is the negative posts and attitude broadcasted to the world. Unfortunately there is no cure for this. You have to lead by example and this is what I am stressing to everyone. Danielle, you have to make an example for everyone. Des Reading does a fabulous job of showing this key factor. She has had many times to express what a turd I have been. Did she do it? No. What good can come from that? None.

I have a different perception of this forum. I don�t relate it to disc golf. This is just a place where people can exchange views and ideas that have the same HOBBY. It�s sad that the targeted audience does not have the brain capacity to not read their own personal problems into posts but I do see progress.


�Rules are put in place for the users, and still nothing is done. Are there rules for the monitors. I think it needs to be made clear exactly what is expected from the users and the monitors, because the rules they have now are open to anyones interpretation and they are not working�



Do you have any suggestions? The answer is not making more rules. The answer is not in tightening the buckle a couple more notches. I have stated my opinion of what I think the answer is and I have grown exhausted of repeating myself. I will apply my theory somewhere and maybe let the PDGA know how it is working out. Would you like to tell the people what your ideas are? I am doing my own thing that is not related to this group so if I hear or see �what have you done for disc golf?� one more time in a reply, I think I am going to puke.

I know your entourage is sitting silently waiting for me to blast you but your post is legitimate. I know your trolling hoping the old Mike will bash you just for posting back to me after you said that you would not. I don�t see any sense of it and I see no sense in wasting my keystrokes doing so. I hope you get out of this post what I am trying to convey but I know what lies ahead. Now bring on the ignorance from the circle!!!!

My most lengthy post to date. :Dthis has got to count for 10. Bring back the post count!!! :)

If any of this bee-ess being perpetrated by Terry had anything to do with the PDGA, I would be in get-even mode. Fortunately, this whole thing is more of a real-life example of how power corrupts and turns nice people into petty tyrants.

Big fish in a drinking glass.



So, you actually think that anyone should be able to post anything on a privately funded and administered message board or am I misreading this?

I thought I was the liberal!

sibling rivalry? :D

If any of this bee-ess being perpetrated by Terry had anything to do with the PDGA, I would be in get-even mode. Fortunately, this whole thing is more of a real-life example of how power corrupts and turns nice people into petty tyrants.

Big fish in a drinking glass.


So, you actually think that anyone should be able to post anything on a privately funded and administered message board or am I misreading this?

I thought I was the liberal!

I actually think that if Terry wants to engage in debate he can. If he does not want to engage in debate he can ignore it. Using his monitor power to change someone's words and belittle them in order to squelch debate is petty and tyranical. It is also effective. The moment Terry changed that thread to the Whining Thread, the discussion died.

And any analogies to the USGA are both silly and grandiose. The USGA has five million members who play enough rounds to get a handicap.

This is Whorley's original post:
Ebay isn't ruining disc golf... the PDGA is ruining disc golf.
� Ridiculously high entry fees make it unaffordable for the average player
� a "National Tour" that has gone bust (there are a very few exceptions), ran off two former world champions, and seemingly keeps regional pros away in droves.
� disc golf numbers boom while Open division numbers remain relatively stagnant
� a competitive system that consists of countless divisions that heavily reward mediocrity with plastic and coddle players who in any other sport would be deemed as recreational
� the practice of gouging ams to help with the bottom line--Meanwhile disc manufacturers seem profit and promote their discs, while little is done to promote the sport itself

Quickly, before Terry re-edits the posting rules, show me what rule that post violates. It is Whorley's opinion that the PDGA is ruining disc golf with its policies and these are his reasons. If he is incorrect [and I argued he was incorrect] thinking people can disagree and explain why they think he is incorrect. Or a petty tyrant can just change the words of his post, belittle his comments and squelch debate.

Maybe we should change the name of this forum to "Goosestepping with Terry and Nick."

Are you telling me the original post is gone? Where have I been? I saw nothing wrong with it. Its been done to me several times. Most recently in the Texas scheduling thread where I had some pretty good ideas about a solution to saturation of sanctioned events. I don�t quite understand why the actions are taken but I do know this c-e-n-s-o-r-s-h-i-p and distraction from the truth persists.

The very first time I was banned a mod (not mentioning names) stated that they tried to contact me via pm to work out the situation which was a complete lie. This kind of attitude and complete disrespect has gone on long enough. What do you do? Take it somewhere else. I see the big picture and there are the ones that are trying like hell to keep it quite. It will not work. I just kick back and let them dig their own hole. It is inevitable.

I changed your title because it disparaged the PDGA. It is not permitted to use PDGA resources to publicly disparage the PDGA and I will edit any thread topics that begin in such a way.


Thanks for the explanation 28 hrs after the fact. I can see how my thread title could be seen as disparaging the PDGA.
You went to far by changing my words. Either delete the thread or the thread title--don't change my actual words. You even snuck your smug point of view in there and publicly DISPARAGED me by calling me a whiner. Now you have even changed my signature. You might call "gutless" name-calling, but if the shoe fits...

Terry, c-e-n-s-o-r-s-h-i-p was taken off the banned list. Why is the word back on? Not only that, why is it replaced with something as misleading as [im a huge dictating potty mouth] I thought we came to an agreement that this kind of manipulation was not in good taste and only tries to silence communication between others.

Can I have a simple answer and not a lengthy drawn out distraction from the question at hand? What happened to the common sense? :confused:

aren't you the original disc pimp??



Not sure if you were serious, but no. New player, new member. Never been here before the date you see I registered.

While I stand by what I said about their (pdga) rights to edit any thead at their discretion I guess I was a bit harsh on what I said.

Sorry Whorley.

And whoever said "funny OT's complaining about people complaining", I wasn't "complaining" but yes, I do see a LOT of people complaining about stuff (and I'm new here)

If you want to see my take on the sport then visit whorleys original post that was changed.

Where have you been? I expect this from these people now and it kinda makes me get more creative. :D

If you want to see my take on the sport then visit whorleys original post that was changed.



I feel the same way, especially the part about the ams.

What ever you do, dont ask to see where the $750,000 a year income they get is going. That will get you banned. :o

This post is just a test to see if Terry is telling another whopper. I don't think all of those charaters appear in the little box that shows the title of the thread. I think all that will appear is, "Ebay isn't ruining disc golf; the..."

If I am correct, there will be no need to edit this post.

All I see is, "Ebay isn't ruining disc go..." How about you? This sentence fragment somehow disparages the PDGA?

Come on.

We all see the real picture. It is coming back to bite them. Thank god the forum does not represent the entire PDGA. That would be scary. :o

Hmm, the PDGA may be moving in the wrong direction for me, but the numbers don't lie.
We have more tournament and more tournament players than ever before.

If the numbers are down for a spacific tournament, it may be because of other tournaments or the way it was run in the past. Even weather can keep some players from playing.

In all, Ebay is not ruining disc golf and neither is the PDGA.

Then who is ruining the plum cakes?

I agree but dont talk about a solution to saturation that cuts into the revenue cause that will be deleted and you will be threatened. :mad:

If any of this bee-ess being perpetrated by Terry had anything to do with the PDGA, I would be in get-even mode. Fortunately, this whole thing is more of a real-life example of how power corrupts and turns nice people into petty tyrants.

Big fish in a drinking glass.


So, you actually think that anyone should be able to post anything on a privately funded and administered message board or am I misreading this?

I thought I was the liberal!

I actually think that if Terry wants to engage in debate he can. If he does not want to engage in debate he can ignore it. Using his monitor power to change someone's words and belittle them in order to squelch debate is petty and tyranical. It is also effective. The moment Terry changed that thread to the Whining Thread, the discussion died.

And any analogies to the USGA are both silly and grandiose. The USGA has five million members who play enough rounds to get a handicap.

This is Whorley's original post:
Ebay isn't ruining disc golf... the PDGA is ruining disc golf.
� Ridiculously high entry fees make it unaffordable for the average player
� a "National Tour" that has gone bust (there are a very few exceptions), ran off two former world champions, and seemingly keeps regional pros away in droves.
� disc golf numbers boom while Open division numbers remain relatively stagnant
� a competitive system that consists of countless divisions that heavily reward mediocrity with plastic and coddle players who in any other sport would be deemed as recreational
� the practice of gouging ams to help with the bottom line--Meanwhile disc manufacturers seem profit and promote their discs, while little is done to promote the sport itself

Quickly, before Terry re-edits the posting rules, show me what rule that post violates. It is Whorley's opinion that the PDGA is ruining disc golf with its policies and these are his reasons. If he is incorrect [and I argued he was incorrect] thinking people can disagree and explain why they think he is incorrect. Or a petty tyrant can just change the words of his post, belittle his comments and squelch debate.

Maybe we should change the name of this forum to "Goosestepping with Terry and Nick."



I was under the impression that Terry had only changed the title of the thread. I still don't think that is a bad thing. I went back and looked at the original post. It looks like it is still there. Am I missing something?

I understand your point that the PDGA is a private organization, I just don't find it persuasive. Dissent, criticism, ideas; they should all be welcome, it's simply part of any healthy organization. It's not like he slandered anyone or offered some outlandish criticism.

Ironically, much of his criticism that you feel a need to squelch has apparently been considered to have some merit and is being addressed. According to a post by Chuck, tier level requirements will drop to allow for more reasonable fees and the PDGA has unsucessfully tried ways to stop the loss of open players. Hell, most of his other points ought to be considered helpful advice, rather than criticism, but that's just my view.

At any rate, his criticism, which by the way, you say you "love" yet you label it "whining" is very reasonable. By squelching reasonable criticism, you simply close one avenue for growth.

ps. Pizza, I challenge your easy digestion and regurgitation of their numbers. Is the PDGA growth keeping pace with disc golf as a whole? How about retention, or in other words, might there be some indication of dissatisfaction?

ps.ps. I personally think the PDGA does a lotta good, and at the same time, I think they embrace many backwards policies that retard the game's growth. However, most of what they do good has been a result of responding to criticism, rather than squelching it.

I understand your point that the PDGA is a private organization, I just don't find it persuasive. Dissent, criticism, ideas; they should all be welcome, it's simply part of any healthy organization. It's not like he slandered anyone or offered some outlandish criticism.

Ironically, much of his criticism that you feel a need to squelch has apparently been considered to have some merit and is being addressed. According to a post by Chuck, tier level requirements will drop to allow for more reasonable fees and the PDGA has unsucessfully tried ways to stop the loss of open players. Hell, most of his other points ought to be considered helpful advice, rather than criticism, but that's just my view.

At any rate, his criticism, which by the way, you say you "love" yet you label it "whining" is very reasonable. By squelching reasonable criticism, you simply close one avenue for growth.

ps. Pizza, I challenge your easy digestion and regurgitation of their numbers. Is the PDGA growth keeping pace with disc golf as a whole? How about retention, or in other words, might there be some indication of dissatisfaction?

ps.ps. I personally think the PDGA does a lotta good, and at the same time, I think they embrace many backwards policies that retard the game's growth. However, most of what they do good has been a result of responding to criticism, rather than squelching it.



What you say James is outwardly undeniable, but there is a subtle difference that needs to be clarified and brought out into the light. And that is this:

Criticism of volunteer efforts is useful if it is offered with a sense of appreciation, respect and in hopes of helping.

Where it becomes whining, is where it is offered purely as a slight, with no appreciation or understanding of what is "really" involved, nor from any level of respect and certainly lacking in any intent of helpfulness.

I feel completely at ease in saying that discussion here is �purely� for entertainment purposes. That nothing of organizational value �really� (in the sense of commitments to actually �do something�) ever happens. This tends, by its very nature, to lend itself to hearsay, witch hunting, half-truths, and yes, whining.

That being said users �can choose� make it more, but in my experience in using this board since around 1997 is that they choose not to. Furthermore, that those who even attempt to are shouted out of the DISCussion by those who have �NOTHING AT STAKE�, have self-esteem issues, no sense of appreciation, respect or intention of helping those who actually make our Sport happen. Do they �honestly� think they are being helpful to our sport? Perhaps, but at what cost.

Of course there are exceptions, but by and large this board is infiltrated with malcontents who just like to hear themselves whine.

How you like me now!?!

An organization has every right and duty to monitor the use of its resources. Seriously, how many privately owned businesses permit their competitors to use their resources or to come into their communities and spread half-(to no)truths about them? None that I can think of.

You just have to take the good with the bad. Its up to the users to make it the experience they wish. Did you really post that or is some temporary filling in for you? :D

Quickly, before Terry re-edits the posting rules, show me what rule that post violates. It is Whorley's opinion that the PDGA is ruining disc golf with its policies and these are his reasons. If he is incorrect [and I argued he was incorrect] thinking people can disagree and explain why they think he is incorrect. Or a petty tyrant can just change the words of his post, belittle his comments and squelch debate.

Maybe we should change the name of this forum to "Goosestepping with Terry and Nick."



I don't know how to goosestep. but I can drum the beat :)

I didn't remove the post, I changed the thread name because there it was appearing on the first page of DISCussion for anyone - including people brand new to the sport - to see the instant they came in. [And had a 'signature' that was also extremely negative; all in all the thread subject and signature were Mars to the post's actual Venus.]

Although my statements about it are being ignored here, I am all in favor of vigorous debate about the PDGA in DISCussion when we have a members-only forum for it to happen in.

But not in public. Not where people with an anti-PDGA axe to grind can make negative statements, supportable or not, that can influence non-members.

Maybe some of you can 'get' this if you imagine your local club having a forum that is public, and daily people - many of whom are not even members - disparage the club and make (sometimes) completely erroneous negative statements about it. Would you want the local newspaper coming in to get background for a story and seeing a post from the nastiest person who ever plays your course, saying that the course sucks, the club sucks, and your club administrator is a Natzi?

Of course not.

Come to think of it, I think what we need as soon as we can get it is a member-only forum (viewing and posting) where people can be as negative and critical as they want (except for obscenities and personal attacks).

Once we get that, it's a free-for-all and I am fine with that. In fact, I love it. As I also said, I love disagreement and debate and enjoy nothing more than hearing and being able to respond to someone who vehemently disagrees with me. [As was pointed out, the discussion has led to some good ideas and thoughts.]

Funny how I don't get many PMs or emails or phone calls with such; somehow nearly everyone who does that thinks the best way to do it is to do it in a forum that instantly makes their criticism a negative thing for the PDGA instead of engaging in real-person discussion.

My phone is 734.883.4407, email is [email protected], AIM is "splendid1" - surely there are constructive criticisms that can be shared directly to a board member and not blasted in public?

Criticism of volunteer efforts is useful if it is offered with a sense of appreciation, respect and in hopes of helping.

Where it becomes whining, is where it is offered purely as a slight, with no appreciation or understanding of what is "really" involved, nor from any level of respect and certainly lacking in any intent of helpfulness.


Respect. Appreciation. It's all earned, not granted merely by being a volunteer. With me, it comes from participating in honest debate. Many of the people I respect and appreciate the most on this board are the ones whose opinions are usually wrong. :p

That being said, I think it is just a difference in perception. I am perfectly comfortable when people criticize, especially when their criticism is insightful. When I hear criticism on this board that I feel is baseless, mean spirited, or is completely disrespectful, I expect people to ignore it or confront it. For the most part, that is what happens.

In short, I don't think much of what is discussed here is whining, it is simply their opinion; it is not scary, dangerous, or threatening. Nor do I consider most people on here to be malcontents, and I certainly don't consider sprited debate or disagreement to be a sign of weakness. I also try real hard to realize that there is more to people's character than what views they hold and how passionately they express them.

Stop blaming it on other people and take ownership of what you say and do. You did not behave appropriately and were told as much.



You whine that no one ever says anything to your face in real life. Someone got a disc stuck 40 feet up in a tree (which you say never happens) during a tournament and I pointed it out to you. And then you complained to the Marshall and the TD that I "got in your head." What a sissy! You couldn't say anything to me like a man? Just because you paid money to play in a tournament doesn't mean that I have to wait until the end of the round to say what's on my mind. I didn't think I behaved inappropriately and would have done it again given the chance. I'll continue to do so in the future.



I know you don't see it as wrong. You don't see it as wrong even with people all around you are telling you that it is wrong. The TD, other volunteers, players; who are they right? You're Jeff LaGrassa after all! You are standing up for the little guy! Whoo hoo!

LOL!

I never said anything about discs not getting stuck 40 feet up in any tree here or anywhere else, you yelling it at me from 50 feet away as I'm getting ready to make an upshot is simply and clearly a case of a host acting inhospitable to a guest. Or do you disagree with Bill Newman and Dan Doyle about that?

And don't think that your mistreatment of guests will keep me away from tournaments you go to, all 2 of them. I have never let miscreants control where I go. Great course, great event, great TD are still fully in effect for Warwick events, regardless of your poor behavior.

I did say feel free to speak to me or discuss things with me anytime, and that still stands; but that is far different from what you did at the Skylands Classic.

And don't think 50 feet is a big enough lead for me not to catch you either... LOL! :D

You just have to take the good with the bad. Its up to the users to make it the experience they wish.


Oh, I take the good with the bad. Just don't begrudge me my right to smack down those I disagree with with commensurate force.

Did you really post that or is some temporary filling in for you? :D


I might ask the same of you being so mild mannered and all�

That's better, Terry.
Thanks.

Respect. Appreciation. It's all earned, not granted merely by being a volunteer. With me, it comes from participating in honest debate. Many of the people I respect and appreciate the most on this board are the ones whose opinions are usually wrong.



James where is the �respect� or �appreciation� in, �Ebay isn't ruining disc golf... the PDGA is ruining disc golf.�? Was there some invitation to �honest debate� that I missed in that first post? You may feel that the PDGA Board of Directors, PDGA Tour Directors, PDGA Committees and PDGA Website Staff have not �earned� your respect or appreciation. That is your right. It is also their right to decide if you (or anyone) have �earned� their respect. RIGHT? And since they are the ones �actually� doing and building something I�d say that gives them every right to manage it the way they see best and get advice from sources they respect and appreciate.

Imagine if you will, someone like Mike trying to tell you how to run your event all the while yelling out to all your participants during the players meeting how much you suck as a TD and how messed up your event is and that it has always been messed up and only getting worse. What would you as a TD do about it? Say, �Thanks, you earned my respect and appreciation by bringing this up now, even though you have neither helped in any way nor provided any helpful advice, nor in a respectful or appreciative manner, but you are right, this is a great time for an �honest debate. Let�s just put a hold on the tournament and listen to what you have to say, shall we?�

Unlikely, right? Why should the PDGA, which by the way is you and I, be expected to do anything differently here?

There is a place, time and proper attitude when bringing concerns to the attention of organizers. This message board is not the place, time and it is nearly impossible to present the proper attitude for such work in such a forum.


That being said, I think it is just a difference in perception. I am perfectly comfortable when people criticize, especially when their criticism is insightful. When I hear criticism on this board that I feel is baseless, mean spirited, or is completely disrespectful, I expect people to ignore it or confront it. For the most part, that is what happens.



That is well and good James, but you are not involved in the monitoring of this board and so you will have to rely on the �judgment� of those who do to decide matters of �baselessness, mean spiritedness, or complete disrespect�. Of course you are welcome to communicate (as effectively as possible) with respect and appreciation that you would precede differently, just as they are welcome to ignore your preferences. Am I right?


In short, I don't think much of what is discussed here is whining, it is simply their opinion; it is not scary, dangerous, or threatening. Nor do I consider most people on here to be malcontents, and I certainly don't consider sprited debate or disagreement to be a sign of weakness. I also try real hard to realize that there is more to people's character than what views they hold and how passionately they express them.



Are you insinuating that I do the opposite and really question folks character based solely on their online behavior? Nothing could be further from the truth. I can understand why you do not see the malcontent I do, I suppose it has to do with our differing approaches and involvement.

I am all for passion, just make sure that your passion does not come at the expense of the PDGA or those who selflessly make it what it is (which is more than just the board or admin staff, way WAY more�). When folks insult the PDGA they are insulting more than Theo, Brian or Terry, they are insulting Harold Duvall, Kozo Shimosan, Steve Winchester, John Duesler, John Biscoe, Kirk Yoo and hundreds of other PDGA emissaries. Many of who are my friends, whom I respect and appreciate. People who understand and respect the contributions and sacrifices made to benefit greater disc golf and have learned to approach each other with that understanding.

We listen to everything, regardless of source or manner of presentation, but can you fault us for paying greater heed to folks who have a deeper understanding of what we go through or who make an effort to be understanding and appreciative while offering their insights?

When nitwits get on here and disparage them, or ignorantly throw mud at the PDGA, they are directly and specifically insulting my friends! And that is not something I am likely to take lightly or say,�Well, it�s ok. That�s just your opinion, and you have a right to publicly blast all those folks in their own house.� Hail no!

Does it mean I'll be spiteful or petty to them when I meet them out on the course? Hail no! Because 99% of the time such bs evaporates in broad daylight. Still, that stuff is clearly unnecessarily hurtful and often not very constructive. That some folks get their rocks off being disrespectful to my friends or myself is clear. That they rarely have the nadds to do so in public, and when they do it is pretty clear to all present that they are out of line.

Hope that clarifies things for you.

Growing up where I did, respect and civility are given. Disrepect is earned.

You repect your elders, parents, clergy, police, elected officials until they give you reason not to. Even then it is bad manners to disrespect them in public for others to see.

I respect people that have allowed themselves to be voted into elected positions within the PDGA just because of that fact. They did not run away from the responsibility when they were asked to run for the office. And I belive that they are truly trying to make positive changes. We will never all agree on what changes are positive, but until I have good reason to believe otherwise, I must believe that they are doing their best.

I find it very offensive that any one disparages the efforts or motives of the volunteers that run the PDGA. Express your opinions about specific topics or decisions, but leave the personal derision out of it.

If you have a better way, volunteer to assist. If your ideas are not acceptted, but you are convinced it is a better way, gather resources and do it yourself. If it is better, then by demonstration you can show that it is better. Don't expect everyone to share your vision, just as you don't share the existing vision.

Wouldn't it be much more positive to state the policies that were believed to be harming the growth of the PDGA, and the perceptions that support those points than to just start out with the PDGA is ruining disc golf?

It is also their right to decide if you (or anyone) have �earned� their respect. RIGHT?


and


And since they are the ones �actually� doing and building something I�d say that gives them every right to manage it the way they see best and get advice from sources they respect and appreciate.



Of course. These are givens. One difference we have is I see these statements as so basic that they do not even need to be mentioned.



Imagine if you will, someone like Mike trying to tell you how to run your event all the while yelling out to all your participants during the players meeting how much you suck as a TD and how messed up your event is and that it has always been messed up and only getting worse. What would you as a TD do about it? Say, �Thanks, you earned my respect and appreciation by bringing this up now, even though you have neither helped in any way nor provided any helpful advice, nor in a respectful or appreciative manner, but you are right, this is a great time for an �honest debate. Let�s just put a hold on the tournament and listen to what you have to say, shall we?�




Well, I'll imagine this scenario, but it's hardly analogous.



When folks insult the PDGA they are insulting more than Theo, Brian or Terry, they are insulting Harold Duvall, Kozo Shimosan, Steve Winchester, John Duesler, John Biscoe, Kirk Yoo and hundreds of other PDGA emissaries.



Uh, OK. Way too melodramatic for my taste, but if someone is critical of a PDGA policy, I assume that they are speaking to policy makers, not the members who elect the policy-makers.



We listen to everything, regardless of source or manner of presentation, but can you fault us for paying greater heed to folks who have a deeper understanding of what we go through or who make an effort to be understanding and appreciative while offering their insights?




Sure, I can understand this somewhat conflicting statement, and I understand people have emotions and don't thrive on criticism, I just probably have a different threshold on the acceptable thinkness of one's skins, or the confidence they should have in their direction. It's rarely personal in my mind, just ideas. Even nitwits can make sense and add to the debate.

As another one of my unnessary asides, I've never seen a well-respected person who asked, whined, begged for, or assumed they were entitled to respect. It usually comes when they don't care about it, yet have earned it.

whose opinions are usually wrong



How can an opinion be wrong? It is how a person feels..it's theirs and cannot be deemed "wrong"...you may disagree with their opinion, but they are in NO WAY wrong.

I'm sorry I had to add my two cents after watching this thread progress.

Mark Susi #7002

I am actually starting to see Nicks personality coming out. Anyone that uses the word nads is cool in my book. I'm stoked. :D

Online, I still will have many differences with him though.

Of course. These are givens. One difference we have is I see these statements as so basic that they do not even need to be mentioned.
<font color="green"> This very thread attests to a different fact. </font>
[QUOTE]
Imagine if you will, someone like Mike trying to tell you how to run your event all the while yelling out to all your participants during the players meeting how much you suck as a TD and how messed up your event is and that it has always been messed up and only getting worse. What would you as a TD do about it? Say, �Thanks, you earned my respect and appreciation by bringing this up now, even though you have neither helped in any way nor provided any helpful advice, nor in a respectful or appreciative manner, but you are right, this is a great time for an �honest debate. Let�s just put a hold on the tournament and listen to what you have to say, shall we?�


Well, I'll imagine this scenario, but it's hardly analogous.
<font color="green"> It is perfectly analogous. Try some regional or nation office and you will know so. Besides, you are avoiding the point, and the "given" answer. </font>

As another one of my unnecessary asides, I've never seen a well-respected person who asked, whined, begged for, or assumed they were entitled to respect. It usually comes when they don't care about it, yet have earned it.
<font color="green"> That of itself is a prideful statement James. Vigilance is a necessity. Just look at our country! </font>

How can an opinion be wrong? It is how a person feels..it's theirs and cannot be deemed "wrong"...you may disagree with their opinion, but they are in NO WAY wrong.




Agreed, thus the little tounge in cheek symbol ( :p) after my statement, which I assumed clarified that I obviously was not serious. Not necessarily directed at this post, but I'm often baffled over the miscomminication here.

It is perfectly analogous. Try some regional or nation office and you will know so. Besides, you are avoiding the point, and the "given" answer.




What is the point? Criticizing the PDGA in this forum, at this moment is hardly analogous to interupting a players meeting to voice your criticism. I consider this time to be "between rounds" so to speak. In other words, it is the proper time.

I still don't know why this is a big deal to y'all. With responsibility comes criticism. How one chooses to deal with criticism is their own choice. In need not be hurtful or debilitating.

I just waded through 10 pages of this soap opera. I felt like I had just sat and watched a night of reality TV. I couldn't get off the couch but felt kind of dirty and shamed. I coulda been working or maybe throwing.

In any case, I really don't get why PDGA should be so concerned about posts or threads that attack, undermine or question its wisdom. I personally do not have any real complaints, but I am a newbie and maybe I just have'nt been around long enough. I hardly think that a post or thread that questions the PDGA is such a bad thing as long as it doesn't say PDGA @#$%# and #$%#* and $#%*(@!!!! That being said, the owner can do what it wants with the board. Of course, if you say I am taking all my discs and baskets home there might not be a game.

Also, I think a moderator who choses to edit content has a duty. If you do so, you need to either contact the poster to tell them that the post was unacceptable and they should try again or put something letting us readers know that PDGA wrote the edited text and not the original poster. ie. "PDGA is...(content edited by PDGA to protect its interest)" would let us know who is saying what.

Terry, no I am sure you are not a (insert perjorative term here) but are looking to do you job. If you were such a (insert perjorative term here) you would have the poster hunted down and scewered with spare parts from baskets. As far as I know that kind of activity is not happening. Just offering some constructive criticism.

ps. Pizza, I challenge your easy digestion and regurgitation of their numbers. Is the PDGA growth keeping pace with disc golf as a whole? How about retention, or in other words, might there be some indication of dissatisfaction?


What ever, It has been posted here. The numbers for Texas has been posted too. I do not have the time to look them up again.

James, you live in Austin, right? There are more pro's who don't play there more than anywhere. Ask them.

As far as the guys I have talked with that don't play anymore.

A few quite because of the drug problems. (quit playing all together, not just tournnamentst)

Most quit because of new jobs, new wifes, new kids, new responsibilities.

People's lives change year to year. I use to play a tournamment a month. I can barely do that now. I tend to play 1 day events because they are easier to attend. I am not going to drive to Austin or Houston to play because it cost me $100 in gas to drive there and back. But I do play several events in the DFW area.

Then there is one pro that quit not just because of the drug problem, but he got tired of the "Crazy Clowns" that were out on tour.

As far as why touring players quit. Most have stated because it gets old real quick. It makes it not fun anymore knowing if you don't cash, you don't eat.

Barry Shultz has come to Texas several times. He usualy wins. Think about how much it cost him to drive here from WI, or even fly. He has to pay for that. Why come down here for $1400 when it cost over $1000 to make the trip. He could have stayed in WI and played a nearby tournamment and won more than $400.

Maybe you could point to Pizza God's post as evidence for the premature nature of a National Tour?

I personally love the idea of NT events. As far as I know, the top national pros are showing up? Maybe just not the top regional pros? I did notice one thing rather peculiar with the Beaver State Fling. More people than you would expect traveled from Idaho, Utah, Washington, and Montana for that event. When it is hard to fill regional tournaments in this area at times. People, even if they were lowly ams, liked the idea of going to "a big league" tournament.

Again, I have no idea what I am trying to say in this post. But, one of the things Whorly (sp?) was originally talking about was his perceived image of the NT. Maybe the PDGA might be wiser to back off a little of the NT, scale it down a bit, until sponsorship, and professional numbers increase.

Is disc golf doomed never to reach that level? I am unsure, but I truly think that younger players moving to the front might help. I still think there are some definate image problems to overcome before this happens, but I think we are on the way.

I respect people that have allowed themselves to be voted into elected positions within the PDGA just because of that fact. They did not run away from the responsibility when they were asked to run for the office. And I belive that they are truly trying to make positive changes. We will never all agree on what changes are positive, but until I have good reason to believe otherwise, I must believe that they are doing their best.



I agree. I've just read some of the comments (anonymous) that came in with the online voting process, and a number of people expressed concern about the lack of candidates for the board and other positions. I also am concerned and would like to see more people running. There is little doubt in my mind that many qualified people who could make themselves do the extra work involved, just do not want to expose themselves to the kinds of nasty criticisms made on DISCussion by a handful of people.

I often wonder how I make myself continue, to be frank, and I think it is that I *know* that I have never yet met a disc golfer I didn't like, and regardless of some of the stupid and vicious things people post, it's certain that when I meet them in person I'll like them.

Do people even know how to get on the ballot? I personally am anticipating moving around a bit and going to school, and do not feel I would have the time. But, maybe it would be helpful to make an annoucement on here in several places with how to get on the ballot.

Terry, no I am sure you are not a (insert perjorative term here) but are looking to do you job. If you were such a (insert perjorative term here) you would have the poster hunted down and scewered with spare parts from baskets. As far as I know that kind of activity is not happening. Just offering some constructive criticism.



Gee, thanks. :confused: :DBut the problem is this, at least for me: I write the DGWN content for the PDGA, and also for Disc Golf Magazine; I do the member newsletter and the nonmember one; I attend board meetings and stay in the communications loop; I also spend time moderating this DISCussion board; I am active in the United States Green Building Council, on the board of a peer-reviewed education journal, write a weekly newsletter w/opinion column for Campus Technology magazine; I have three children, one who just got married and two still at home; I am active in the Ann Arbor Club and assist at all of its tournaments; I *also* have a wonderful, active, and 50-60-hours-per-week 'day' job. (And there's more.)

When I see a nasty thread subject line, I can modify it in 15 seconds, as I think of it. If I have to deliberate, communicate, touch base, etc., what could be 15 seconds might turn into an hour, altogether, over several days. Sorry, don't have that kind of time. I mean, I have a personal course on my property that is as challenging as the Hudson Mills courses, hole #1 is right outside my side door. But I barely have time to get a single round a week in, even during the summer.

Could I do a better job? You bet! But I'm doing what I can with the time I have and that often means I am a little more abrupt that I ought to be, but I am always doing what I do for the PDGA with its best interests in mind, not my own axe to grind.

Do people even know how to get on the ballot? I personally am anticipating moving around a bit and going to school, and do not feel I would have the time. But, maybe it would be helpful to make an annoucement on here in several places with how to get on the ballot.



We announced in many places, but clearly can do a better job. I can tell you with certainty that all of the board would prefer to have contested elections.

In addition to the likelihood of being personally attacked if you run, though, here are some other reasons people have given for not running:

- I think everything's going well already.
- I don't have the time.
- I'd hate to run and lose terribly.

For those without the history, this year we moved the elections from the fall to the spring, so that any new board members could be fully engaged in planning for 2006. When we did this, all the current board members voted to shorten their present terms by 6 months rather than to lengthen them.

We also chose NOT to just appoint the vacated oversight director position to show our desire to open the field and not just allow in, as some have inanely suggested, our buddies. Instead, only Kirk Yoo ran, and once the election was underway we went ahead and appointed him since it was clear that he was going to win anyway.

Anyone active on this board knew that we left that position open to be elected instead of appointing it, and that we wanted a competition. Well, it didn't happen.

I mean, how hard is it to run? You just say you want to and write up something about yourself. Right? My own personal bet is that some of the more critical folks on DISCussion know darned well how hard it is to be on the PDGA board and despite all of the complaining, they're terrified that they'd actually be elected and have to serve.

Reason 1
Most people just want to play. They don't really care about all of the stuff that goes on behind the scenes. It is equally hard to find players that are willing to help with local clubs as it is to find people that will run for the PDGA BOD. It always seems like the same 10 people are willing to help at each event. Then every club has 20 or so other people that say they will help and never come through with that promise. It usually those same 20 people that are doing the complaining.

Reason 2
Lack of communication as to how to get on the ballot.
I personally didn't have any idea where or when to get on the ballot. Having every BOD position on the ballot non contested is a huge black eye for our organization. You would think the current BOD would want avoid this at all costs. It shows that the general membership doesn't care. If the board really cared about having contested elections, why wasn't personal contact made to the members through e-mail or another method. Even personal contact to all of the TD's, there has to be some TD's or club presidents that would take time to advance the PDGA through being BOD member. I got an e-mail telling me how to vote and who was on the ballot. I think the same effort could be made to get the ballot full.


Rob Bullen

Terry, you mentioned that you can edit a post or title in 15 seconds. I know you can do it faster, but what you edited it with was in poor taste. Can Whorley get an apology or is that to much to ask. Cmon, we know your busy and at the time thought is was funny or what have you but, you still have not owned up to the oopsy. Why is this so hard for you to do? :confused:

We are all human here and sometimes what we percieve to be rational is not. Is this so hard to admit?

Whorley, if I have ever offended you I am sorry. See how easy that is. ;)

You should know the answer to this one. The same reason they dont take in extra help when needed. To keep it in the circle.

Now I know Terry is going to tell the ways that people have been notified but why not take simple extra measures to advertise the invite? :o

Also, can I get an answer why c-e-n-s-o-r-s-h-i-p in on the ban list AGAIN. That is so lame.

Gee, thanks. :confused: :DBut the problem is this, at least for me: I write the DGWN content for the PDGA, and also for Disc Golf Magazine; I do the member newsletter and the nonmember one; I attend board meetings and stay in the communications loop; I also spend time moderating this DISCussion board; I am active in the United States Green Building Council, on the board of a peer-reviewed education journal, write a weekly newsletter w/opinion column for Campus Technology magazine; I have three children, one who just got married and two still at home; I am active in the Ann Arbor Club and assist at all of its tournaments; I *also* have a wonderful, active, and 50-60-hours-per-week 'day' job. (And there's more.)


Terry you are obviously way too busy and important to be wasting your time with disc golf miscreants. As a corallary you are obviosly way too busy to do a decent job as communications director. As evidence I submit your mishandling of the msg board.

When I see a nasty thread subject line, I can modify it in 15 seconds, as I think of it. If I have to deliberate, communicate, touch base, etc., what could be 15 seconds might turn into an hour, altogether, over several days. Sorry, don't have that kind of time. I mean, I have a personal course on my property that is as challenging as the Hudson Mills courses, hole #1 is right outside my side door. But I barely have time to get a single round a week in, even during the summer.



In other words if you don't have the time to consider what you are doing. The PDGA gig is just a small part of your busy and important life. You consider 15 seconds plenty of time to dispense Terry's Tyranny.

Could I do a better job? You bet! But I'm ...


not. We deserve more Terry. Resign. How about a recall un-election?

Gee, thanks. :confused: :DBut the problem is this, at least for me: I write the DGWN content for the PDGA, and also for Disc Golf Magazine; I do the member newsletter and the nonmember one; I attend board meetings and stay in the communications loop; I also spend time moderating this DISCussion board; I am active in the United States Green Building Council, on the board of a peer-reviewed education journal, write a weekly newsletter w/opinion column for Campus Technology magazine; I have three children, one who just got married and two still at home; I am active in the Ann Arbor Club and assist at all of its tournaments; I *also* have a wonderful, active, and 50-60-hours-per-week 'day' job. (And there's more.)


Terry you are obviously way too busy and important to be wasting your time with disc golf miscreants. As a corallary you are obviously way too busy to do a decent job as communications director. As evidence I submit your mishandling of the msg board.

When I see a nasty thread subject line, I can modify it in 15 seconds, as I think of it. If I have to deliberate, communicate, touch base, etc., what could be 15 seconds might turn into an hour, altogether, over several days. Sorry, don't have that kind of time....



In other words you don't have the time to carefully consider what you are doing. The PDGA gig is just a small part of your busy and important life. You consider 15 seconds plenty of time to dispense Terry's Tyranny.

Could I do a better job? You bet! But I'm ...


not. We deserve more Terry. Resign.
Verne - see not anonymous. And if you had come to am worlds I would have told you to your face.

:o

Although very inpolite he does have a huge point. Maybe you have out grown this mesage board and need to spend more time with your family or something of a more important nature. If your slipping then let someone else shine that is not to busy to do your job. Dont take it as an attack. Look at it from a real point of view.

I'm sure any of the other Board candidates with more time would be glad to... oh wait, were there any other candidates?

i'll be a board candidate next year.

Lower the standards for being a candidate. Its that simple Chuck. /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

" Criticism of volunteer efforts is useful if it is offered with a sense of appreciation, respect and in hopes of helping."



Bingo !! I think Kight hit it right on the money. I used to be a Business Mediator and Arbitrator a few years back. One thing that was paramount in some of my cases was voicing your opinions and concerns in a context that would be repectful and understanding of the parties involved. And at the same time balancing that with getting your point across very firmly and strongly !!! There is this worldly misconception that any and all criticism is good and productive,and should be welcomed.
Wrong!!!! If one party sees it has a unfair attack then overall productivity is very diminished. It then turns into a
" one upsmanship " contest and everything goes down the tube. Kind of like we are seeing now.

It does absolutely no good when you say things like " the job the PDGA is doing is pathetic" or the " BOD does not know what the hell they are doing"
And then you come back and say "oh I was using constructive criticism etc..etc.. and why did you cen$or me ? " .

Thats BS !!! Its not about constructive criticism!! Its all about ego and wanting to be right and making it way too personal and wanting to prove your point right regardless if it offends someone else.

Heres a word of advice when wanting to voice your so called "constructive criticism."

Phrase you concerns and issues with questions.
Like " ha Terry in all due respect I am just having some sincere issues with the direction the PDGA is taking on this stance. Could we get together and discuss this further ??"

Or "Terry I am really concerned about how the BOD is handling this situation. In my opinion I think it would be a step in the right direction if you all implemented a system where...Etc..etc....
Thanks for listening and when would be a good time to discuss this matter further ??..."

I mean its only human nature to get turned off by people when they voice their opinons with hostility and sarcasm.

So if its really the issues you are concerned with and not your ego being right then you will learn how to strategically communicate with others and make it a win/win sitiuation for both parties.

You mean like this?


Terry, you mentioned that you can edit a post or title in 15 seconds. I know you can do it faster, but what you edited it with was in poor taste. Can Whorley get an apology or is that to much to ask. Cmon, we know your busy and at the time thought is was funny or what have you but, you still have not owned up to the oopsy. Why is this so hard for you to do? :confused:

We are all human here and sometimes what we percieve to be rational is not. Is this so hard to admit?

Whorley, if I have ever offended you I am sorry. See how easy that is. ;)



Now where is the apology? The thread title was changed to aleiviate the sarcasm but no apology. I feel you should apologize and not to mention at least notify someone before you alter their profile.

Yes and I also think there should be an apology.
If you get offended by someone's rather hasty opinions then you retort in a little more mature way.

Not very professional at all. I mean even if you just deleted it altogether that would have been a bit more mature.

Come on guys we are all adults here right ??

Pretty shocking when I found out this guy has a grown child already out of the house. Thats scary !!!

Terrys really not all that bad, he just has a problem answering questions straight forward and lowering his ego to admit he is wrong. We all have faults, he just has an issue admitting his.

By the way did I mention that I am a senior communications executive of blah blah blah blah. You get the picture. Its like rooster only without the military. :o

Just kiding rooster. Chuckle. :D

I think the Board has done a great job of trying to recruit candidates for a volunteer position that basically sucks. Every election I've paid attention to the PDGA has used every communication means at its disposal to recruit candidates. It is a testament to the wisdom and foresight of our members that so few get duped into serving.

If you don't have a deep seated need to "be in charge" there is not a lot in being a board member. You spend time and money dealing with issues where you're going to get bitched at no matter what you do. There is a new, stressful thing going on every month. It takes an admirable and rare combination of dedication and lack of smarts to get sucked into that job. I can so totally see Pat running and getting elected. :D

When I see a nasty thread subject line, I can modify it in 15 seconds, as I think of it. If I have to deliberate, <font color="red"> communicate </font> , touch base, etc., what could be 15 seconds might turn into an hour, altogether, over several days. Sorry, don't have that kind of time.



uh Terry,
Communicating would be the job you vounteered to do.
V

yep, i am sure qualified! :D

After careful consideration (I swear Bruce did not threaten to beat me up the next time he sees me!), I have realized that what Terry did was wrong. I was focusing on Terry's right or responsibility for changing the thread title and not on what he changed it to or why he changed it. I believe now that Terry should appologize and promise to handle these things with more consideration and professionalism.

Since I called Bruce a liberal in public I thought that I should post this in public. Bruce was not being a liberal he was just using good judement and common sense (I hope everyone understands why I was confused).

I'm sure that Terry just thought he was being funny. But as Terry has pointed out before, what is funny to the person who is doing the posting, is often hurtful to the postee.

And don't think 50 feet is a big enough lead for me not to catch you either...



Is that a veiled threat, Dough Boy? If you ever decide to go down that route, you will be very sorry you did.

Could I do a better job? You bet! But I'm ...


not. We deserve more Terry. Resign. How about a recall un-election?

[/QUOTE]

HAH HA HA HA!!! Wait! Wait! LOL!

Who exactly is going to do a better job? You Verne Lund!?! Mike Crump!?!

HAH HA HA HA!!! Wait! Wait! LOL!

Evidence absolute that ignorance is bliss...

As Donald Rumsfeld said so elequantly, "We don't go to war with the army we want, but with the army we have..."

If you want it done better then quit your yackin' and strap one on and get busy.

When I see a nasty thread subject line, I can modify it in 15 seconds, as I think of it. If I have to deliberate, <font color="red"> communicate </font> , touch base, etc., what could be 15 seconds might turn into an hour, altogether, over several days. Sorry, don't have that kind of time.



uh Terry,
Communicating would be the job you <font color="red"> vounteered </font> to do.
V



And whining is obviously the job you volunteered for Vern.

(Yes, I am joking, but what makes a joke funny is its relation to truth...)

Terrys really not all that bad, he just has a problem answering questions straight forward and lowering his ego to admit he is wrong. We all have faults, he just has an issue admitting his.

By the way did I mention that I am a senior communications executive of blah blah blah blah. You get the picture. Its like rooster only without the military. :o

Just kiding rooster. Chuckle. :D



Indeed! God forbid you actually be qualified to open your pie hole...

[please excuse the temporary thread drift as I attempt to beech-slap Jeff].

Jeff, both Santoro and I told you that you shouldn't say anything to Nick, especially while he was playing his round. Granted, neither of us is your momma, but common sense would dictate that courtesy should be extended to someone playing a round, maybe even more so if it's an NT that he paid $100 to be in.

I know it's hard for you to do, but admit you were wrong and move on. Morgan took his 2m penalty stroke like a man, you should follow his lead.

Crap, did I just defend Nick? What is this world coming to? :D

[/temporary thread drift and beech-slapping]

Carry on.

(edited to find a way to say beech-slap)

Qualified......thats funny. Maybe I should put that on my resume. Is there actually a class for that? :D

And don't think 50 feet is a big enough lead for me not to catch you either...



Is that a veiled threat, Dough Boy? If you ever decide to go down that route, you will be very sorry you did.



LOL! No, it was a joke; just like your fixation with me is...

you two are soooooooooooo macho :D

If you want it strap one on and get busy.



Speaking of strap ons...Nick you obviously are well-versed in these matters. How come you are allowed to belittle PDGA members and potential board candidates in a public forum without any repercussions? Oh yeah, you're a little guy down there, I mean the little guy who plays board monitor. BTW If I were the Lung I would have whooped your [I'm a potty-mouth!] a long time ago /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Qualified......thats funny. Maybe I should put that on my resume. Is there actually a class for that? :D



No one needs more class than you Mike... :p

Yes and I also think there should be an apology.
If you get offended by someone's rather hasty opinions then you retort in a little more mature way.

Not very professional at all. I mean even if you just deleted it altogether that would have been a bit more mature.

Come on guys we are all adults here right ??

Pretty shocking when I found out this guy has a grown child already out of the house. Thats scary !!!



I disagree that Terry needs to apologize, given the context and nature of the incident. Only in today's America do people carry out rude and unprofessional actions, get called on it, and then expect an apology afterwards.

Let me be clear - Whorley's thread, its title, and most of his ranting were unprofessional, impolite, and incorrect. Terry took an action, but he didn't get on here and Post... "Is Whorley ruining disc golf?" He didn't lob bombs at Whorley and call him a dictator or other rude inappropriate names, he simply changed the title of his thread to something less offensive (and frankly less childish, although appropriate and funny). I find it interesting that no one is demanding an apology from Whorley, only from Terry.

We've gotten in the habit of saying whatever we want with no thought as to it's accuracy or truth, stating it as fact (or with an occasional IMO) and then being offended when someone tells us it is inappropriate. Terry, and others, have to deal with this every day. In this context, it isn't surprising that Terry might get on the post and view Whorley's post as whining.

I have seen very few appropriate criticisms of the PDGA posted here; I've also not seen a single acknowledgement of their radically fast and appropriate treatment of most criticisms. Grunion is particularly good at complaining about the inability of the PDGA to respond; I wonder what world you guys are living in? Compared to government, business, and academia, the PDGA is a model of listening and modified behavior. They constantly question the PDGA body for their opinions, and then act on the consensus. They even pay attention to the drivel that gets posted here! The fact that this isn't recognized is a testament to the youth and inexperience of some people. Frankly, I could easily see other organizations and businesses doing best practice studies of this organization in attempts to bring the PDGA's adaptability into their own organizations.

If you want it strap one on and get busy.



Speaking of strap ons...Nick you obviously are well-versed in these matters. How come you are allowed to belittle PDGA members and potential board candidates in a public forum without any repurcussions? Oh yeah, you're a little guy down there, I mean the little guy who plays board monitor. BTW If I were the Lung I would have whooped your [I'm a potty-mouth!] a long time ago /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif



LOL! You gotta love this stuff. I see Jeff maybe 2 times a year and I for one am not going to ever get into a fight over something someone says on a message board. That would be stoopid, wouldn't it?

How exactly is it joking around when the PDGA is the brunt of the discussion but belittlement when a poster is?

FYI: I no longer monitor the message board, haven't since Terry took over actually. So spare me the big brother bs. I am an unrestricted free agent again!

Only in today's America do people carry out rude and unprofessional actions, get called on it, and then expect an apology afterwards.



What, Terry is asking for an apology? :D

"Needs class" I am sorry feel that way. I have more class than you could possibly have on your best day. Professionalism to if you want to get down to it. I can also be an azzz if you step on my toes with hearsay as your motive. What a peice of work you are. Now continue YOUR expression on classless attitude to some one else nimrod. :p :D

Since I called Bruce a liberal in public I thought that I should post this in public. Bruce was not being a liberal he was just using good judement and common sense (I hope everyone understands why I was confused).




Why do you say that like it's a bad thing?

Jeff, both Santoro and I told you that you shouldn't say anything to Nick, especially while he was playing his round. Granted, neither of us is your momma, but common sense would dictate that courtesy should be extended to someone playing a round, maybe even more so if it's an NT that he paid $100 to be in.

I know it's hard for you to do, but admit you were wrong and move on.



FYI, he paid $81, not $100, if that makes a difference.

Here's the real disconnect. I don't agree with you or Nick that it's discourteous to point something out to him during a tournament. He has often intimated on the 2m threads on the Discussion Board that discs never stick 40 feet up in a tree; well, here was a classic example of that. This was during a break in the action and well before he got to his lie. What does the crybaby then proceed to do? Claim that I "got into his head" and complain to the Marshall and TD.

It would be no different if I was a spectator or playing in the tournament alongside him. I didn't think it was discourteous to bring up a rules issue or talk about something from the PDGA board. I won't admit I was wrong, because I don't think I was in the wrong. I'll do it again in the future if I get the opportunity.

There's your beech-slap right back, Dan. :p

"Needs class" I am sorry feel that way. I have more class than you could possibly have on your best day. Professionalism to if you want to get down to it. I can also be an azzz if you step on my toes with hearsay as your motive. What a peice of work you are. Now continue YOUR expression on classless attitude to some one else nimrod. :p :D



I thought you could take a joke Mike. Sorry I hurt your sensitive and considerate feelings... :p

As Donald Rumsfeld said so elequantly, "We don't go to war with the army we want, but with the army we have..."




Wow...nobody should ever quote Ronny Dumsfeld if they want to sound even half way intelligent.

Jeff, both Santoro and I told you that you shouldn't say anything to Nick, especially while he was playing his round. Granted, neither of us is your momma, but common sense would dictate that courtesy should be extended to someone playing a round, maybe even more so if it's an NT that he paid $100 to be in.

I know it's hard for you to do, but admit you were wrong and move on.



FYI, he paid $81, not $100, if that makes a difference.

Here's the real disconnect. I don't agree with you or Nick that it's discourteous to point something out to him during a tournament. He has often intimated on the 2m threads on the Discussion Board that discs never stick 40 feet up in a tree; well, here was a classic example of that. This was during a break in the action and well before he got to his lie. What does the crybaby then proceed to do? Claim that I "got into his head" and complain to the Marshall and TD.

It would be no different if I was a spectator or playing in the tournament alongside him. I didn't think it was discourteous to bring up a rules issue or talk about something from the PDGA board. I won't admit I was wrong, because I don't think I was in the wrong. I'll do it again in the future if I get the opportunity.

There's your beech-slap right back, Dan. :p



Sad. Just sad.

As Donald Rumsfeld said so elequantly, "We don't go to war with the army we want, but with the army we have..."




Wow...nobody should ever quote Ronny Dumsfeld if they want to sound even half way intelligent.



Sometimes I rely on readers intellengence to insert the tougue in cheek guy. I now see that is a mistake...

impossible to tell sarcasm from stupidity in written communication Nick. just the nature of the beast. That is why this guy is there /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

If only you all knew how absolutely stupid you all sound, while trying to sound so intelligent.

now that was just plain dumb! :D

hey Lungter, let me get this straight.... you said some words and ruined Nick's whole round? you mean to tell me that your mere words had a direct effect on Nick's performance?

wow.

either your words are super-human strength or Nick has NO/NADA/ZERO/ZILCH/NYET/LING mental game!

what a shock!

:D

We are all intelligent. This is why we are all in the same thread. Do you have anything intelligent to add? :o:D

Nick, I am luaghing. I thought you would know. It is true that it is hard to read sarcasm. I am having fun with this. Now where is that over bearing tyranical dictator Terry that is the fall of the message board.<<<<< this is sarcasm people.

Do you have anything intelligent to add? :o:D


No matter who you are, no matter what you stand for, no matter what's in your heart...there's someone waiting in the wings/grass to kick you in the teeth.

That is a true statement if I have ever heard of one. Ok your intelligent to Circle. :D

That is a true statement if I have ever heard of one. Ok your intelligent to Circle. :D



Dont you mean too??? :eek:

A lot of people, including Nick, have expressed the sentiment that high entry fees and the gambler format are not good for disc golf. That was mostly what Whorley was saying. He linked the responsibility for the format to the PDGA. I don't see how that is inflammatory. His position is arguable even though I disagree with it and place the blame on the TDs who offer that format and the players who demand that format.

We had about 18 amateur players in the amateur division for our Friday trophy-only zero entry fee PDGA sanctioned club championship, by the way. I'll let you know how the $10 trophies and CTPs but no pay-out Blast goes. [Pros pay a normal IOS entry fee for a normal IOS pro payout.]

Since I called Bruce a liberal in public I thought that I should post this in public. Bruce was not being a liberal he was just using good judement and common sense (I hope everyone understands why I was confused).




Why do you say that like it's a bad thing?



I didn't say it like it is a bad thing. I said it like it is a funny thing. It might only be funny to Bruce and me. Or it might only be funny to people who know of our divergent political opinions.

hey Lungter, let me get this straight.... you said some words and ruined Nick's whole round? you mean to tell me that your mere words had a direct effect on Nick's performance?

wow.

either your words are super-human strength or Nick has NO/NADA/ZERO/ZILCH/NYET/LING mental game!

what a shock!

:D



Actually, it didn't ruin my round, I won my grouping for the last 2 rounds and cashed. It was simply rude behavior on the part of a staff member that I had respect enough in the TD to let him know about it. Dan Doyle has always been committed to running the absolute best event he possibly can and has been that way since the course went in; believe me he wants all and any information to make his events even better.

In that light, I doubt very much whether Jeff will try such a thing as a staff member at next years event. Now it might mean enough to him to come out as a spectator just to heckle me, but that is a different situation now isn't it.

What I find remarkable here is that Jeff was the one to bring it up here!?! He really does think that what he did was ok? Perhaps this is a matter for the PDGA Disciplinary Committee. What do you think?

What I find remarkable here is that Jeff was the one to bring it up here!?! He really does think that what he did was ok? Perhaps this is a matter for the PDGA Disciplinary Committee. What do you think?



Your kidding me right??? The guy points out the fact that a disc got stuck 40 ft high in the air while your playing a round and you want it to go to the disiplinary commitee??? You have got to be kidding me. You are kidding right???

I think it is a matter for a different thread or maybe no thread at all.

That is a true statement if I have ever heard of one. Ok your intelligent to Circle. :D



Dont you mean too??? :eek:



I said I was intelligent, not perfect. :D

I never try to sound intelligent and am insulted to think that anyone would ever accuse me of such nonsense! :D

I just like to throw my own silly comments into an otherwise "sensical" debate. /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

sensical or sins-ical. We are all going to hell. :o:D:D

My soul has been saved by Pat Robertson and his teachings!!

sensical or sins-ical. We are all going to hell.:o :D:D



That is only if you believe hell exists :eek:

What I find remarkable here is that Jeff was the one to bring it up here!?! He really does think that what he did was ok? Perhaps this is a matter for the PDGA Disciplinary Committee. What do you think?



Your kidding me right??? The guy points out the fact that a disc got stuck 40 ft high in the air while your playing a round and you want it to go to the disiplinary commitee??? You have got to be kidding me. You are kidding right???



Yeah, that's the way it happened. :p

I don't want to go to anyone about it. I didn't want it to happen. It did. Now Jeff is so proud of it he makes a big deal of it here on the mess bored. Apparently he thinks it's cool. That his co-volunteers, other players (at the event) and the TD and PDGA Marshal of the event don't see it that way should tell you something right?

Maybe not.

I think it is a matter for a different thread or maybe no thread at all.



100% Agreed. But more than happy to ablige... /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

We are all intelligent. This is why we are all in the same thread.

That belongs in the Funny thread.

Do you have anything intelligent to add?


No, I'm not intellegent.

Actually I think most of you are very intellegent, well, with the exception of you Mike, I don't think you are very intellegent, just a trouble maker. Oh wait, let me make that comment okay for ya, here are the smiley's :eek: :) :) :D:D:D:p :p :p :p ;) ;) ;) ;) /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif




Oh, and just out of curiosity....

I know your trolling hoping the old Mike will bash you just for posting back to me after you said that you would not.


Why isn't she supposed to be posting anything to you?

I dont know how it went down. Im not saying it was right or wrong either. I just think taking it to the DC may be a little extreme. But then again I wasnt there to see it go down so I could be wrong.

All I know is that I got a freakin 2 meter OB stroke in Warwick during my Blue to Blue round and it was the beginning of the end for me :mad:

Those cedars are velcro!! I say out with the 2 meter rule. You would too if Warwick were your home course ;)

Sorry Pimp but I can't think of anyone that would deserve that more. :cool:;)

I'll send you some cheese. :)

Those cedars are velcro!! I say out with the 2 meter rule. You would too if Warwick were your home course ;)



I didnt even get stuck in a CEDAR!!! :mad:

LOL, I just assumed. How did you get it?

i'll be a board candidate next year.



As will I..... :D

Left side of hole 15s Fairway. I rolled my ankle while trying to throw my upshot and it went nose up and hyzered off into a tree and was suspended by 2 branches no bigger then my pinkie finger :mad: Then I proceeded to mentally fall apart :(

:( Too bad. One funny thing is that I think the disc of Morgans that got stuck (the one they are argueing about) fell out after they played the hole. At Flagstaff one of the girls bent to mark her lie when her disc was stuck, when a breeze knocked it and it started to fall. But it got stuck again :mad:Out with the 2 meter rule!

As Donald Rumsfeld said so elequantly, "We don't go to war with the army we want, but with the army we have..."




Thread Drift Follows.......

The US has LESS Reservists &amp; National Guard troops in Iraq &amp; Afganistan than CLINTON REDUCED FROM THE ACTIVE MILITARY during his tenure as "Commander in Chief" :p

I dont know how it went down. Im not saying it was right or wrong either. I just think taking it to the DC may be a little extreme. But then again I wasnt there to see it go down so I could be wrong.

All I know is that I got a freakin 2 meter OB stroke in Warwick during my Blue to Blue round and it was the beginning of the end for me :mad:



I'm not going to take it to any committee, I just was playing to the jury of the kangaroo court.

I saw 3 2 meter violations. One on hole 16 StoS for a drop in 3, the other on hole 4 StoB into a cedar on the right side of the fairway, 40 feet up (ooooh! That never happens... ;) ) for an easy 5 and then in the finals the lead womens group Val Avery stuck 2.1meters above the playing surface in the low second line of trees on hole 18 for a 5.

Would folks have been aiming for those trees without the 2 meter rule in effect? Were they aiming for them with the 2 meter rule in effect?

Does anyone really care? :o:( http://jm.g.free.fr/smileys/azcrying.gif :confused: ;)

Thread Drift Follows... :p

This entire thread is thread drift! There is a stupid political rant thread down at the bottom of the page for people [like me] who sometimes find the need to demonstrate their stupidity to people of the opposite political persuasion.

As to Jon calling me a liberal, I'm anti-statist, which looks like liberalism when Republicans are in power and like conservatism when Democrats are in power, but is really more like libertarianism without the drugs and free sex.

:( Too bad. One funny thing is that I think the disc of Morgans that got stuck (the one they are argueing about) fell out after they played the hole.


If you can't see the irony in this then check your pulse!


Out with the 2 meter rule!


See, you're intellegent!

Val Avery stuck 2.1meters above the playing surface



Was that mixed doubles?

I'm anti-statist


Me too, stats lie.

On the other hand, I read a stat that indicated that Pennsylvania couples who constantly fight usually end up living their final days in Texas trailer parks. So Jeff and Nick should beware.

In a random draw of Jenkins, half of any combos drawn would be mixed :D

And yet another thread continues to beat the dead 2 meter rule horse.....

i took a 2MR stroke at flagstaff and offer that experience as complete and irrefutable proof that the 2MR MUST live!

but then i have this belief that bad shots should be punished and that golf is based on playing it where it lies.

No, on her final hole I think.

Oh, and just out of curiosity....
I know your trolling hoping the old Mike will bash you just for posting back to me after you said that you would not.
Why isn't she supposed to be posting anything to you?



Please re-read. Could there be something that says she would not?

You call me a trouble maker. Dont worry, I have no problems with Danielle as we have moved on. Now.......will you? :o

Here are some emoticons to make it ok for YOU.
/msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

i took a 2MR stroke at flagstaff and offer that experience as complete and irrefutable proof that the 2MR MUST live!

but then i have this belief that bad shots should be punished and that golf is based on playing it where it lies.



This inspite of "REALITY" and our actual "RULES OF PLAY".

LOL! :D;)

If bad shots "should be penalized" I suggest you be a man of your word and add a throw to your score whenever you bang off of a tree or skip off water.

Furthermore, that you only "slap" or "kick" at your disc "where it lies" from now on so as to not cheat by picking it up and throwing it with your hand... :D

Sometimes this is too easy... and fun!

Val Avery stuck 2.1meters above the playing surface



Was that mixed doubles?



Yup, it was Val Jenkins. I was the really tired person carrying the pro leaderboard sign when she did it. I mentioned to Burl that I hadn't felt that useless since being in the delivery room with my wife (let me tell ya, every person in that room was giving me the dirty look that said, "YOU are the reason we've been here for 18 hours!!!").

I guess it's a matter of perception. I play Warwick more than anyplace and love the 2m rule, especially because of the cedars. Jeannie, if you want I'll teach you how to throw a roller. Of course, me teaching anything related to DG is probably not the best idea, but I haven't taken a 2m stroke in a LONG time.

Ooohhhh. I see. So she just doesn't want to post back to you (can't imagine why) not she shouldn't post back to you. My bad. :o
And Thanks! Adding a smiley always makes things better. LOL
I'm not worried about you and Nelle. I was going back to a post you made that I wanted to quote, but as in usual fashion, I couldn't find it. It must have been one of the ones you edited. I just happened across the Nelle one and was curious. No worries at all.


Now.......will you?



Oh I see. Since I have had trouble with the "Old" Mike in the past, then anything I say to the "New" Mike will be looked at as me not being able to move on. Very interesting, te he he :D:DSo does that mean I won't be allowed on any of the intellegent threads anymore? ;)

Your quite welcome to post. I know if you have wit then you have some kind of brain. :D

Can you go over here (http://www.pdga.com/msgboard/showflat.php?Board=Miscellaneous&Number=430284&Searchpage=0&Main=424427&Search=true&#Post430284) and help WebGuy out. I am definatley not intellegent enough for that post.

Me neither. :confused:

I'm sure any of the other Board candidates with more time would be glad to... oh wait, were there any other candidates?



What's the point of being a candidate if the incumbent is going to win 1500 to 4.

Incumbents don't win 1500 to 4. Those with few votes are write-ins and weren't on the ballot.