Vince, this is for you. You have always been one of my favorite golfers around.
(since my name is not available in t_mojo's bio, it's f.Luke Reiser (21014), here).

I've read all the "whining" threads, and frankly, I agree with most of the "whiners." the PROFESSIONAL disc golf association should not even deal with "amateur" players. If the current "amateur" class is allowed to play they should be at least given a "division two" title. Ams are equally as professional (in payouts - geez, payouts for amateurs?) as the so called pros in this "sport."

Now I don't have solutions for the problems in competitive disc golf, but I (and many others) can see that they are not being solved and possibly not even addressed.

Vince; words to the wise (thanks jimmy cliff): fight on brave warrior.

PROFESSIONAL disc golf association .



Funny that you would be talking about professionalism

Thanks, fLuke. If only I had your gift to create thread titles.

A few years ago the PDGA actually thought about making it the PDGA (Player Disc Golf Association) or something like that. They were going to take the 'pro' out of it.

It was voted down by everyone (well a majority)

A few years ago the PDGA actually thought about making it the PDGA (Player Disc Golf Association) or something like that. They were going to take the 'pro' out of it.

It was voted down by everyone (well a majority)



I voted for the change, and I don't think it was the only time it came up for a membership vote.

I have no idea why a private company would want to be known as the Disc Golf Association, but that is really the best name for our org don't you think?

I think that "PDGA" can stand for BOTH "Professional Disc Golf Association" and "Players Disc Golf Association" and that there might be some structural way to divide into two entities that share resources and leadership but have two quite different missions.

I've been mulling that over for a while but can't yet clearly articulate what I see as possible. Thought I'd share the thought, though.

PROFESSIONAL disc golf association .



Funny that you would be talking about professionalism



hey mouth,

read my signature.

I voted for the change, and I don't think it was the only time it came up for a membership vote.

I have no idea why a private company would want to be known as the Disc Golf Association, but that is really the best name for our org don't you think?




I was for keeping it "Pro" personally.

the DGA (Disc Golf Association) was started by Steady Ed. He also Started the PDGA. In the early 80's, Ed turned the PDGA over to the players. As of today, you can not use "DGA" in your club letters. ADGA and ODGA are the only two I know of. DDG (Dallas Disc Golf) dropped the A after recieving a letter from Ed.

In Texas we have LSDGA (Lone Star Disc Golf Alliance) When I put out newsemail, I put LSDGA in the heading. Steady Ed was on my email list. I got a little letter asking (no it was really telling) me to change LSDGA to something else. Well I forwared that email to all the TD's in Texas and boy did Ed hear about it.

We compromized and from then on, the heading was "Lone Star Disc Golf Alliance Newsletter"

As of today, you can not use "DGA" in your club letters. ADGA and ODGA are the only two I know of. DDG (Dallas Disc Golf) dropped the A after recieving a letter from Ed.



Is Ed still sending out letters? Wow, I woulda thought he had stopped that by now...

Have you noticed that this thread ties into everything that I have been trying to approach with the ***? Let us take over the local tournies and you guys take the PROS. You are the PROfessional disc golf association. What is the problem with leading a syndicate that is 100% volunteer and offers no PDGA fees because we are not affiliated with you, to elliminate the saturation of Sanctioned events? Any time I post it gets deleted becuase of what reasons? Mmmmmm,,,please tell me. :confused:

Mike,

For what it's worth...

I have never met you, and have never talked to you, but based on what you have presented here on the message board, I for one would not be comfortable with you taking over the "amateur" side of disc golf organization.

The one fact that keeps rearing its ugly head again and again as concerns you, is that you are unwilling to let your actions speak for themselves. While you never miss an opportunity to tear down and insult everything everyone else is doing to promote disc golf, so far I have seen you provided zero in terms of an "actual" alternative.

Yes, I know, you say that it is coming. Great! I'm sure we will be all very interested when you have something for us. Until then could you at least slow down on insulting the efforts of the rest of us?

Why is it necessary to attack the PDGA in order to make what you say you are working on right? Shouldn't it be able to stand on its own two feet if it is all that?

Lastly, though I agree with you that organized disc golf can do far more than it currently is to promote itself and the sport in general, I think that it would be foolish to just throw away the resources it has taken us this long to forge and start over. It is not a job you can do all by yourself, that, for sure, is true.

I don't mean to sound like I don't wish you luck, I do. I just wish that you didn't feel such a need to bash everyone else as you work. You just might get a little more help from the few skilled folks out there who have "proven" that they do more than talk the talk.

Regards,
Nick

Oh silly Nick. Please quote the part where I bashed everyone in my previous post. You must have forgotten to take your meds again. :o:D

You Gonad. :p :D

Please quote the part where I bashed everyone in my previous post.



I prefer to wait until you actually "do something" besides just post messages. Then we'll have something "real" to discuss.

I find it amusing that you feel yourself some kind of innocent in all of this. Perhaps you are the only one who doesn't notice that "constructive dialog" does not seem to follow you in most of the threads you post to. I for one would certainly welcome such a development. It would start with a declaration of something that you have "done" more than what you "intend to do" (or more importantly not start with how much you hate what other people have "already done" or "are doing").

You didn't answer my question about why you so obviously feel it necessary to tear down something in order to make your (yet to be seen) efforts right? Why you feel you'll be better off starting from scratch, rather than work with people that likely know more than you and certainly have more experience than you in organizing and promoting disc golf?

I don�t feel it is necessary to respond to such assumptions and yet again, because I choose to do something on the other side of the fence I have to defend myself. Maybe it is because of people like you that I choose my path. You are definitely a piece of work. Now try to apply your etiquette to some other minnow, as I am not falling for your ignorance. Nicely worded though. /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Mike,

You are over complicating this?

I'm just asking you to tell me what you have done that would lead us to believe that you are ready and able to lead this disc golf revolution you say is coming?

And secondly, why you find it, so very apparently, necessary to bad mouth others who might actually be able to to help you succeed in your intended or speculative efforts?

Pretty simple stuff. No alterior motives or hidden agenda's. Just requesting a straight forward answer. Don't you think we all deserve a straight forward answer considering the months of degradation you have heaved on the very organization you utilize to spread your "message"?

I think you owe it. Anyone else think he owe's it?

Sort of a put up or shut up request... or you talk the talk but do you walk the walk...

I'm honestly hoping you will answer these questions and not try some obvious evasion or misdirection.

Why you feel you'll be better off starting from scratch, rather than work with people that likely know more than you



Mike, you're going about this all wrong! You should be soliciting the help of Nick! He knows everything! ;)

Nick, your notions are not based on fact. You are in the middle of a highschool queen meeting on the topics of drama.

I like Jeffs response. Oh, and grow some skin Gonad. :D

Hostility Noted: Your refusal to answer is an answer.


Nick, your notions are not based on fact.



What notions are those Mike?

That you prefer belittling people who have proven records of taking action and promoting disc golf?

That you haven't actually done any of the great things you say you are going to do for disc golf yet?

That you seemingly are unable and unwilling to work with people that might know more and have more experience than you?

You are the one asking us to follow you to the promise land; so you are the one that needs to provide a little evidence that you have what it takes? Otherwise, words are just words.

nanny nanny boo boo. You have said yours and I am to busy to persuade your opinion. You will see. Words are words and actions speak louder. Sorry you are impatient and want your pop sicle now. :p

I�ll just be glad to get anything constructive and tangible out of you Mike. It still doesn't answer my question why you have found it necessary to beat on folks that have already handed out the popsicles (including the one you are now posting on).

You know the way this clan is. When I first responded to one of your arrogant posts and anyone else�s, everyone hounded me because I was new or not known. Then when I proved that I could call out the morally bankrupt, people started thinking of their own skeletons before attacking me. Now since everyone has settled down, there are no issues. You know how it goes. I still see it going on today when someone stands up and inquires information. They get slammed and attacked. Just because this methodology does not work with me and only fuels me, is the only reason I am still posting under my original account that was banned so many times. If I just walked away and did not PROVE myself then I would be another quitter now wouldn�t I? So in a sense you have already seen what I can do. I am persistent. Now when I can get my priorities in order then I will show you what I can do on the web. All I can say is look out. This site is going to be dope.

Later gonad-ulator /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Oh silly Nick. Please quote the part where I bashed everyone in my previous post. You must have forgotten to take your meds again



Uh I could be wrong, but I think he might have been referring to all of your posts, not just the previous one. /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif


I don�t feel it is necessary to respond to such assumptions and yet again, because I choose to do something on the other side of the fence I have to defend myself.


Why is it so hard to disagree without taking it personally? :D

:D

Good one Jeanie

Although I have yet to take any of these posts personally.

Ok.....you can stay in this thread to. The wit has done it yet again. :D:D;)

You know the way this clan is. When I first responded to one of your arrogant posts and anyone else�s, everyone hounded me because I was new or not known. Then when I proved that I could call out the morally bankrupt, people started thinking of their own skeletons before attacking me. Now since everyone has settled down, there are no issues. You know how it goes. I still see it going on today when someone stands up and inquires information. They get slammed and attacked. Just because this methodology does not work with me and only fuels me, is the only reason I am still posting under my original account that was banned so many times. If I just walked away and did not PROVE myself then I would be another quitter now wouldn�t I? So in a sense you have already seen what I can do. I am persistent. Now when I can get my priorities in order then I will show you what I can do on the web. All I can say is look out. This site is going to be dope.

Later gonad-ulator /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif



Content of your last post that discusses what you are actually doing as a leader of a new disc golf revolution:
1) I am persistent. That I continue to cause trouble in perpetuity on this message board proves that I am doing something.
2) I can do some dope stuff on the web.

Content of your last post that are personal attacks against people that have built the PDGA, maintain the worldwide network of promoting and organizing disc golf, provide this very DISCussion Board, keep and work with all related data including results, winnings, ratings, course setups, etc, run PDGA events and work with each other to do so:
1) They hound you. Just because you shared your well-intentioned and respectfully presented advice.
2) You have �proven� that they are �morally bankrupt�, with �skeletons� of misdeeds in their closets and they attack you for your �well-informed�, �experienced� and �well-intentioned� analysis.
3) They slam and attack anyone who asks politely and with respect and consideration for information about the PDGA. For that reason I was �Banned� and that I am posting from that banned account proves that I was right and they all were wrong!

Very informative.

Mike, why don�t you actually go and do something, THEN come back and tell us all how wrong we were and how right you have been? Hot air is not the same thing as actually doing something. I for one can�t wait to see what you do on the web for disc golf. Just be sure to give appropriate credit where credit is due. Like to:

All the people that have built the PDGA, maintain the worldwide network of promoting and organizing disc golf, provide this very DISCussion Board, keep and work with all related data including results, winnings, ratings, course setups, etc, run PDGA events and work with each other to do all of this.

Sound fair?

Like to:

All the people that have built the PDGA, maintain the worldwide network of promoting and organizing disc golf, provide this very DISCussion Board, keep and work with all related data including results, winnings, ratings, course setups, etc, run PDGA events and work with each other to do all of this.

Sound fair?



Sounds like you flunked English 101.

Why encourage Grunion? Maybe if we all ignored him he would go away. If a tree falls in the forest .....

Like to:

All the people that have built the PDGA, maintain the worldwide network of promoting and organizing disc golf, provide this very DISCussion Board, keep and work with all related data including results, winnings, ratings, course setups, etc, run PDGA events and work with each other to do all of this.

Sound fair?



Sounds like you flunked English 101.

Why encourage Grunion? Maybe if we all ignored him he would go away. If a tree falls in the forest .....



Why not follow your own advice Vern?

I am learnin dat a few of U guys have something to prove on your posts. Why must anyone try to act like they are perfect. This maybe Nicks only downfall. Good greif :confused:

You guys R brutal.

Get over it. Nick, patience Danielson, patience.

Oh yeah, your not the sole individual that can benefit disc golf. Your work load looks to be topped out so how could you benefit me with what you have to show? Stop insinuating that you can do so much for us and just keep building up Daddy PDGA. We are covered on our end as I turn down no voluteers. Maybe if Daddy would do this your work load would not be so intense. Just an opinion so stop trying to argue how I feel. That is useless, kinda like your mockery. :p

I am learnin dat a few of U guys have something to prove on your posts. Why must anyone try to act like they are perfect. This maybe Nicks only downfall. Good greif :confused:

You guys R brutal.

Get over it. Nick, patience Danielson, patience.

Oh yeah, your not the sole individual that can benefit disc golf. Your work load looks to be topped out so how could you benefit me with what you have to show? Stop insinuating that you can do so much for us and just keep building up Daddy PDGA. We are covered on our end as I turn down no voluteers. Maybe if Daddy would do this your work load would not be so intense. Just an opinion so stop trying to argue how I feel. That is useless, kinda like your mockery. :p



What are you talking about?

I have never claimed to be perfect or the soul individual that can show the way and I certainly have never offered to help you with whatever it is you are doing.

I insinuate nothing.
I say it plainly and straightforward:

Stop insulting the people, unlike you, who have actually already done and are now doing �something real� to promote and move organized disc golf forward.

And start showing �something real� for all your jagger jawing.

What don�t you understand?
And where are your patience?

> We are covered on our end as I turn down no voluteers.

I think I remember suggesting that an official PDGA volunteer could join your group, Mike, and was turned down on that.

Terry,

Your exact words was that a BOD member sit in and listen to our meetings and then report back to the PDGA. Dont half azzz it. You know what you are doing. Dont go there buddy.

Nick, you are always pointing out what you believe to be others faults. Get over yourself and grow up. You are not perfect as everyone keeps pointing out. If you would relize that then your life and posts would probably be much better. /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Why encourage Grunion? Maybe if we all ignored him he would go away. If a tree falls in the forest .....



Why not follow your own advice Vern?



Are you supporting Grunion or suggesting that I ignore you? For the msgbrds WMD you sure make fuzzy points.

Of course, Nick, I am assuming there was a point.

Why encourage Grunion? Maybe if we all ignored him he would go away. If a tree falls in the forest .....



Why not follow your own advice Vern?



Are you supporting Grunion or suggesting that I ignore you? For the msgbrds WMD you sure make fuzzy points.

Of course, Nick, I am assuming there was a point.



Reread your post and follow your own advice was my point?

"Why encourage Mike Crump/Nick Kight? Maybe if we all ignored him/them he/they would go away. If a tree falls in the forest ..... "

The reason I don't ignore him is he is a part of our online community and we are discussing stuff. And it is fun. When we don't discuss and it is not fun, then I will have no problem at all ignoring him. Isn't that what this mess bored is about?

Besides saving the universe...

I'm impressed Nick - no attacks no provocation - watch it:
you're going to lose your new title of PDGA agent provocateur.

Entertainment is why I'm on the msg bd. I saved the world last week.

Back to the shadows again .....

The reason I don't ignore him is he is a part of our online community and we are discussing stuff.

just curious nick... who do you have set on ignore these days?

The reason I don't ignore him is he is a part of our online community and we are discussing stuff.

just curious nick... who do you have set on ignore these days?



If he gives you an answer, don't believe it. He said he had me on ignore, yet responded to many of my posts.

If you want to know if someone has you on ignore, try to send them a PM. If you can send a PM to a user, no ignore.

If you are on their ignore list, you get a certain message. try it.

but i am not on anyones ignore list, so i cant :D

I just put you on my ignore list, just as an example. Try to send me a PM.

I'll take you off ignore later today.

out of all the message board accounts, there are only 97 people who are currently being ignored by one or more people.

there are two people being ignored by 10 people and one who is being ignored by 9.

of the 2 people who are ignored by 10, one of those ignores 5 people. the other one does not ignore anyone. the person being ignored by nine also is ignoring no one.

jake, i see what ya mean

jake, i see what ya mean



Well, the body of your post is shown as **you are ignoring this user** but when I quote you, the actuall text shows up.

now, thats crazy! i didnt know that one... good find

The reason I don't ignore him is he is a part of our online community and we are discussing stuff.

just curious nick... who do you have set on ignore these days?



I've known about the "quote thingy" for quite some time.

It's more like "I try" to ignore certain folks, but I am about as successful at that as I am at seeing eye to eye with you or Rhett...

I provided my criteria above. Folks flow in and out of ignore. Hey! It's a nice feature, why not put it to some use, right?

"Why encourage Mike Crump/Nick Kight? Maybe if we all ignored him/them he/they would go away. If a tree falls in the forest ..... "

The reason I don't ignore him is he is a part of our online community and we are discussing stuff. And it is fun. When we don't discuss and it is not fun, then I will have no problem at all ignoring him. Isn't that what this mess bored is about?

Besides saving the universe...



Nick, I am impressed. Good job. :D

If approached with an open mind, everyone has something valuable to add. People that you may deem as misguided are at least giving their time and energy to state their feelings. Just because someone feels differently than you, does not make them wrong and you correct. There are shades of gray in every situation. I feel listening with an open mind is the best way to approach every situation. I take whatever grain of wisdom I can from each ounce of the others offer. I once rode to Austin to testify before committee with a Republican. It was one of the most enlightening trips to Austin ever. We found we actually have quite a bit in common. I don't believe I will ever place anyone on ignore.

I have never used the ignore feature. I see no productivity in it, well unless you just can't contain yourself.

out of all the message board accounts, there are only 97 people who are currently being ignored by one or more people.

there are two people being ignored by 10 people and one who is being ignored by 9.

of the 2 people who are ignored by 10, one of those ignores 5 people. the other one does not ignore anyone. the person being ignored by nine also is ignoring no one.



How did you figure all that out?

out of all the message board accounts, there are only 97 people who are currently being ignored by one or more people.

there are two people being ignored by 10 people and one who is being ignored by 9.

of the 2 people who are ignored by 10, one of those ignores 5 people. the other one does not ignore anyone. the person being ignored by nine also is ignoring no one.



How did you figure all that out?



There is still someone who still thinks that Pat Brenner doesn't KNOW EVERYTHING!?!

Quick, send out the brain dead patrol...

There is still someone who still thinks that Pat Brenner doesn't KNOW EVERYTHING!?!



One of the most hypocritical things Nick has ever stated. Nick's entire existence seems to be based on the belief that he knows everything, and making sure others are aware of that.

i have my ways...
i could just post the names, but.... :D

CORRECTION!!!

there are 97 who are ignoring one or more other folks
there are a total of 58 different users who are being ignored.

You see, here is a prime example of when I like to ignore a couple of posters. I can imagine all the nice things they are saying about me... LOL! :D :D

Funny how you say you have me on ignore, yet respond to many of my posts! :o

out of all the message board accounts, there are only 97 people who are currently being ignored by one or more people.

there are two people being ignored by 10 people and one who is being ignored by 9.

of the 2 people who are ignored by 10, one of those ignores 5 people. the other one does not ignore anyone. the person being ignored by nine also is ignoring no one.



Hey pat,

How many people have me or my aliases on ignore?

Yeah, how did you do that? :)

what happened to the banning of non-members on the message board, it would really be great if we banned all non-members and the posts would also make a lot more sense.

.02

Dirty D, you are being ignored by only 1 person. CABAL is also ignored by 1. HYZERACE though is ignored by 8. i didnt see any of your other million or so aliases on the list, but i could have forgotten some of them. :eek:

That's it? I guess I haven't applied myself.

That's it? I guess I haven't applied myself.

i wouldnt say that. just HYZERACE alone is in tie for third most ignored for a single identity. for combines IDs you own thrid place outright!

Nick has 1st locked up huh?

good guess, but no. remember, while Nicki is a total bully, most people are quite tolerant and put up with his holier than thou know-it-all approach. assclown is blowing the competition away in the "is ignored" category.

now, if you want to talk about the "i have no skin and i put everyone i dont agree with on ignore" category, then you just might be on to something ;)

Ok its my turn. How many indiduals have me on ignore?

ooops, you'll have to wait til tomorrow... i left my spreadsheet on the office computer. but if memory serves, chinadg and one of your others had a respectable set of ignorers. anonymous was also well-represented, as was minicrusher. i'll get the exact numbers in the morning for ya.

Ok its my turn. How many indiduals have me on ignore?



Your's is the only post I can read in the last 8 or so.

Mike is at least a look you in your eyes type of poster, he doesn't get all freaked out and chase you around panting and ranting. That is just weird to do that.Really weird.

Yeah, how did you do that? :)

Apparently it is like dying discs! Which means it must be on the internet somewhere...

Your's is the only post I can read in the last 8 or so.

wow, you must really be quick to put people on ignore! do people really threaten you so much you must hide from them and their ideas? or is it a simple case of being able to dish it out but not being able to take it?

Numbers? :D

How many are ignoring the user GrunioN?

Dont put me with mini, she and I are totally not the same person. Although she spoke for me on many occasions.

on an individual account basis your ignorability rating of 4 makes you barely a major player. however when you factor in anonymous's 3, Natalie's 3, and fishykitty's and chinaDG's 5 apiece the ignorability rating of your collective is a very formidable 24.

How many have GrunioN on ignore? 4? Who are they? :D

I totalled up only 20 collectively.

I'm ignoring you! :D.....but I'm ignoring just about everyone else also. :cool:

Your's is the only post I can read in the last 8 or so.

wow, you must really be quick to put people on ignore! do people really threaten you so much you must hide from them and their ideas? or is it a simple case of being able to dish it out but not being able to take it?



Rhetorical questions, Pat. I think you already know the answer. :D

grunion is ignored by 4... my bad, i added the big G twice to get the (incorrect) 24 total.

to your credit, you recognize the value in your fellow man and are ignoring no one! :D

Ignoring people is FREE!

It also makes you smarter cause nobody disagrees with you. /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

No one disagrees with me anyway...

They're all just frontin'! :p

He's a bunion! He's a thorn! He's underwater! Mangle the Buddhist, mangle the Buddhist!

Are Quidam's ignore numbers going up? Sometimes when I'm ignoring someone I'll hit the "Quote" button to see what they said. Then after awhile I'll just take them off ignore. I have not done that once for Quidam.

On the other hand, that is the primary way I read any of Nick's posts when he is misbehaving. Is he still misbehaving?

I'm probably ignoring more people than anyone, mainly because I put the entire Grunion team on ignore!

I believe that Quidam is the industry leader.

putting the grunion collective on ignore is understandable, but no, bruce, there are TWO people who are ignoring more fellow board members than you.

and yes, quidam is creating a very impressive legacy with his ignorability rating!

Seize my fork and tell me that you taunt me, and I'd teleport, but I haven't got a Zygon.

I would presume that Quidam created his username and on board personna just for the sole purpose to getting the highest ignore count.

Although the results kinda leans towards that, you could not be further from the truth.

Are you using a junk mail algorythem to generate those posts Mike? Or just cutting and pasting from junk mails?

Grunion is NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT Quidam.

(and not even the rules committee can change that!)

I know Grunion, and he is not Quidam. Quidam is not even a real person, he's a ghost trapped in a beat /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

I know him too, his beat is made up of many hertz. :D

Some of Q's post's are just so far out there and orig. they are F-ing rofl funny


:eek: ;) :p :D


but maybe i'm just WEIRD.........lol

I thought the first three were. Then it became like a comedian doing the same routine show after show. Then it got annoying because I'd forget that his posts were nonsense and go to a thread with new posts only to find that his gibberish was the only new thing. Thus, ignore.

Then it got annoying because I'd forget that his posts were nonsense and go to a thread with new posts only to find that his gibberish was the only new thing.



my advice:
find something else to do to pass your time than reading the crap on this board.