Why do we need to be the PDGA? Why can we not steal the DGA? Or be the Organiztion of Disc Golfers, Disc Golfers Organization or something else? We are not all Professionals, I am an am "Am" at best. Maybe the ADGA Amatuer Disc Golf Association.

DGA is copyrighted or registered or whatever to Steady Ed....From what I understand PDGA was also, but he turned it over to the players....I remember some Texas person (Pizza God maybe...) getting a letter from Steady Ed for using DGA at the end of their club name.

There was also a vote awhile back on whether or not to change the name to something like Players Disc Golf Association or something of that nature. The majority of votes cast said no. So, they stayed with Professional Disc Golf Association.

There is Disc Golf United in use also along with maybe a United Disc Golf group getting going.

As discussed at length and beaten to death, splitting to ADGA and PDGA would probably be a mistake. Ask any TD and they can tell you why in a real quick hurry.

Well, well, well, looks like more people feel the same way I do. Relax floppy, I am building a place for people like us. Leave the Pros for the PDGA. United Disc Golf is approaching all golfers, Rec, Int, Adv, and Pro. We feel that the fees and other aspects of the PDGA are not beneficial for the totems lower on the pole. We also feel that *** tournaments would relieve the saturation of PDGA sanctioned tournaments. If TD's were not battleing for turnouts because of the conflicting dates then the PDGA would not be having the animosity between Tounament Directors.

United Disc Golf is "completely" non profitable and all money entered into competitions would be paid out. Also we will provide our own rating system that is completely live. You play a tournament then your results are calculated instantly.

Its amazing that we are growing so rapidly. Now if I could get some free time to get my case for the Server, we could be online in no time. The domain is already owned by yours truely and it wont be long till you can bring your ideas to a reality. Hope to hear from you. :D

[email protected]

Mike,

Weren't you asked not to discuss this here?

And is it unreasonable to ask that you actually have something to show us prior to such big talk.

As Quidam might say,

Easy it is to cut down a pool cue, hard to make one from itch.

Confusious might say:
If we are all one big happy family then why the mud sligging from the older brother?

Honestly, why all the mud slinging? Does'nt the PDGA support disc golf or is that just an image they like to portray?

We also feel that *** tournaments would relieve the saturation of PDGA sanctioned tournaments. If TD's were not battleing for turnouts because of the conflicting dates then the PDGA would not be having the animosity between Tounament Directors.





Wrong! All tournaments pull from (basiclly) the same player base. So your tournaments WILL conflict with PDGA sactioned ones.

Huh? It would seem to me that all the whining is coming from the unborn cousin. The Big Brother has asked to be a part of the process and turned down as I understand it. This even though you guys want to use all of our resources at less than no benefit to us.

C'mon Mike, make some sense, would you?

Besides it is only so much text as of right now. Report back when you actually have something for us.

Just remember there is always a choice involved: Work with others and reap the benefits of that cooperation and understanding or attack and steal from others and deal with the trouble that goes with such actions.

do you disagree with the walls?

sure wish you would go find wwwwanker and hide with him under that rock

Nick, please allow me to play devil's advocate. I think that Mike's idea is nothing other than vaporware, but let's imagine it wasn't.

What's the difference between his imaginary *** and the recently formed DGU? Why can DGU be promoted here on the board (and even get to put on a presentation at the Iowa Worlds, no less) but not ***?

DGU is not a club or member organization. It is strictly a service that charges a low monthly fee to calculate and track personal handicaps online for players and/or for League Directors who want to run handicap leagues. It is a customer of the PDGA by licensing course directory information plus adds other elements useful for course ratings.

how much does it cost to license the course directory?

Don't know. Harold worked it out with Theo about a year ago.

I believe we have all been customers of the PDGA at one time or another. Wheres my boots, here we go again. ;)

how much does it cost to license the course directory?



Chuck Kennedy:
"Hey guys...I say we open another site ran by yours truely to do the handicap rating system and I can use it under another name to charge for services. This way we can charge for all this voluteer work we do so much of and bill it back to the PDGA" :D

Nice theory if I were actually getting paid by DGU. And the PDGA has started to provide a small fee for those doing the PDGA ratings. Grunion, I have about 6000 hours of unpaid volunteer work for the PDGA alone over 16 years that doesn't count what I've done locally. So, you're not going to get any apology from me.

Not looking for an apology. Just looking for the reasoning behind it. This is the only way I have been able to do this. Yes it is awkward but it is the only way to find out I have found is throw assumptions out there so you guys can straighten it out.

Thanks for enlightening me on your "voluteer work". Now how much was the licensing and why was it needed? Oh....that might be to straight forward. :D

I am not attacking you Chuck. I think you are a good guy.

You have to have course ratings to calculate handicaps properly. So, you need some sort of course directory for DGU customers to look up the factors for their personal use. Even though most course info is essentially public domain, Harold decided it was easier and appropriate to work with the PDGA and license their directory, especially since the updates then stay in sync.

Huh? It would seem to me that all the whining is coming from the unborn cousin. The Big Brother has asked to be a part of the process and turned down as I understand it. This even though you guys want to use all of our resources at less than no benefit to us.

C'mon Mike, make some sense, would you?

Besides it is only so much text as of right now. Report back when you actually have something for us.

Just remember there is always a choice involved: Work with others and reap the benefits of that cooperation and understanding or attack and steal from others and deal with the trouble that goes with such actions.





This is not true. I personally asked to speak to Terry about it- thru either PM,Email, or telephone. Terry said he would call me- He never did. We made an attempt to speak with the PDGA, and they chose not to.

Here are some differences between Disc Golf United and ***.

DGU really is a league adminstration system, not a 'professed' system of ratings and (now) competing tournaments, as *** claims to be.

DGU has internally supported its own development all along, not threatened to harvest PDGA ratings data to make its system work, as has ***.

DGU has worked WITH the PDGA, not used PDGA resources to attack the organization, as has ***.

DGU leaders are all active PDGA members, while *** is touted by a non-member.

DGU's presentation at Iowa Worlds was part of Innova Night and the "Meet the Champions" segment of that was so wildly successful that it encroached on the DGU and EDGE presentations that were scheduled. Regardless, the rental cost of the ballroom that night and all other attendant expenses were born by Innova and not the PDGA. Would *** be prepared to do the same, or would they (he?) expect the PDGA to provide the resources to them (him?) just as he takes advantage of this resource without enrolling as a member?

DGU's leaders have never stated that they would maliciously subvert message board security measures, just to prove how "geeky" they are, as *** has.

Are those enough differences for you?

If "GrunioN" has such a great idea and wants to contribute something to disc golf so much, he has a couple of choices. First, he can become part of the association and work within the system to bring his ideas to fruition. Or second, if doesn't want to be part of the PDGA, take the moral and ethical high ground and do it on his own, using his own resources, and not relying on what someone else has developed and paid for.

I've heard that Mike is quite an intelligent guy, and that he very well could come up with something quite good. That remains to be seen. Up to now, all we've seen is bitterness and threats. And when challenged, it's always, "wait and see." Well, I've been waiting, and all I've seen is....

Dan, I think your perception of *** as vaporware is fairly accurate. I think that Mike has an idea, some knowledge of how it could be implemented, and other than that, nothing. His resources are limited, unless he poaches from the PDGA. The data to make his ratings system work is non-existent, unless he poaches from the PDGA. His communication network is zero, unless he poaches from the PDGA. His membership base is nil, unless he poaches from the PDGA. He couldn't even come up with an original name, without poaching from someone else, not the PDGA, but DGU.

There are many participants on this forum who are not current PDGA members that take part in spirited discussions about all sorts of topics. They are, in most part, respectful of the resource and appreciative of the chance to be a part of it. There is a big difference, in my mind at least, between taking part in discussion, and actively working against the organization that provides the resource for that discussion.

Huh? It would seem to me that all the whining is coming from the unborn cousin. The Big Brother has asked to be a part of the process and turned down as I understand it. This even though you guys want to use all of our resources at less than no benefit to us.

C'mon Mike, make some sense, would you?

Besides it is only so much text as of right now. Report back when you actually have something for us.

Just remember there is always a choice involved: Work with others and reap the benefits of that cooperation and understanding or attack and steal from others and deal with the trouble that goes with such actions.





This is not true. I personally asked to speak to Terry about it- thru either PM,Email, or telephone. Terry said he would call me- He never did. We made an attempt to speak with the PDGA, and they chose not to.




This is true! Not only that but I dont constitute a member of the BOD sitting in our meetings and reporting back to the PDGA volunteering. Gimme a brake. Terry tried to pull the same stance on another thread and that was put to a stop as well. I believe that would be a distraction and a liability more than anything. Why do you guys want our ideas? They are all over your board. All you have to do is free your mind. :D

Thanks for your opinion. I will look forward to you coming aboard when you are ready. /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Thanks Jon and Chuck. I think I have a better idea of the differences now.

What it comes down to Mike is this; many of us have poured our hearts into building what we have now with the PDGA, Regionally and Locally.

Someone coming into our living room, not even having the minimum courtesy to join our association and then threaten to steal all of the data, ideas and thousands of hours of work to build a competing organization is not going to be warmly welcomed.

If that is surprising to you, oh well....

Not that you're interested, but here is my advice; Find a way to work with and within the PDGA. You and Josh have said that we refused, well that is completely on you guys to convince us through word and deed that you are serious about wanting to help move disc golf as an organized sport forward.

Now if you are not interested in working with us, then why may I ask do you expect us to be interested in working with you? Why would you think that we would want to give you what it has taken us 25 years to build?

Come on dudes! Be real.

I was gloopy in the haze of a crouching moomin, but heaven knows I'm truttaceous now...

What it comes down to Mike is this; many of us have poured our hearts into building what we have now with the PDGA, Regionally and Locally.



I understand.


Someone coming into our living room, not even having the minimum courtesy to join our association and then threaten to steal all of the data, ideas and thousands of hours of work to build a competing organization is not going to be warmly welcomed.



Why would I join an association that wont even sell me their services. All I here is follow everyone else. When I ask question of what I am being involved in and where the money is spen I get attacked.

Stealing your data? I am sorry but until you can prove that alligation, I suggest you stop insulting us and throwing slanderous remarks around.


If that is surprising to you, oh well....

Not that you're interested, but here is my advice; Find a way to work with and within the PDGA. You and Josh have said that we refused, well that is completely on you guys to convince us through word and deed that you are serious about wanting to help move disc golf as an organized sport forward.



I have volunteered on many occasions to help the PDGA before with no response. Many people have. It is the stagnet medium from which you push that has given me the idea to make a place for everyone to put their ideas together and actually see a difference.


Now if you are not interested in working with us, then why may I ask do you expect us to be interested in working with you? Why would you think that we would want to give you what it has taken us 25 years to build?



I dont expect you to help but if you are speaking for the PDGA and all members I would have to say that you are a huge portion of *** already.


Come on dudes! Be real.



I am being real, when are you going to WAKE UP Doood!

We all know that Nick exchanged two boxes of tampons for hair-gel!

We all know that Nick exchanged two boxes of tampons for hair-gel!



Dont you mean two bottles of hair-gel for a box of tampons! :eek:

I wish Hong Kong Phooey wouldn't commit serial killings with me.

I like that cartoon.