Do you think PDGA entry fees are too high? In my area, Pros pay $200+ for majors, $100+ for Supertours, $75+ for B-tiers, and $50+ for C-tiers. I just paid $65 for a one-day C-tier!

I think these entry fees are too high. In my opinion, they should be reduced 50% across the board. These outrageous entry fees may slightly raise the pot for the winners, but they lose many mid-level players who can't fork out 10-20% of their weekly paycheck.

What are your ideal price limits for a PDGA?
Mine are--$100 for majors, $65 for Supetour, $45 B-teir, and $35 for a C-tier

You paid it. How can it have been to high? If it was too high, you would have stayed home.

The suggested maximums are being reduced in 2006 for each tier but the table isn't final yet for publication.

That was actually $65 well spent!

I'm not talking about one tournament! I'm talking about entry fees everywhere.

That was actually $65 well spent!

I'm not talking about one tournament! I'm talking about entry fees everywhere.



i believe the market should determine these factors. dictating fees merely results in cookie cutter events that bring the good td's down to the level of the mediocre.

i charged $65 for my c tier (not a one day btw) this weekend because imo at least that amount of value was to be had by the players- as judging by the turnout and the apparently happy players the price did not turn anyone away. of course, all the pdga recommendations for a b tier event were met or exceeded- i just do not see any reason to run a b tier under the current setup. it costs me more $ to have more restrictions placed upon how i choose to run my event without gaining my event anything in return. imo the value a player gets out of an event is completely unrelated to the pdga tier structure. (we charged $35-40 for our b tier at loriella in the spring)

events could cost $1000 each if players were receiving perceived value in kind.

i do agree that some events are overpriced- there is no reason to charge beyond a minimal fee if you are not doing anything but taking registration and sending the players out to play.

imo most td's of over-priced events are simply unaware that their event is over-priced and are willing to consider alternatives if it is brought to their attention in a conscientious way. at least one va td has lowered their fees this year after some input. i also actually advised one va club to raise fees for their event this year as they were not charging enough to meet their baseline.

judging by the rampant growth experienced by tournament dg in va this year i would say that your belief that events are generally overpriced may be a bit off base. the players will speak with their dollars.

In my area, Pros pay $200+ for majors, $100+ for Supertours, $75+ for B-tiers, and $50+ for C-tiers.



to my knowledge the hho has been the only c tier in the state charging over $45 this year, i also do not know of any b tiers in va charging over $65. enlighten me please if i am incorrect.

The complicating factor in this is separating the true entry fee from the amenities TDs include in the price. When meals are included, it skews the whole process. I might pay $100 for a 2-day B-tier if meals are included but might only consider $65 of that an entry fee, and who knows what other fees might also be in there like greens fees or series fees.

The suggested maximums will be based on what is recommended for the base entry fee upon which payouts would be calculated. This should give the TDs flexibility to pack other items over and above that into their package tournament deals so players can determine whether it's worth it.

In my area, Pros pay $200+ for majors, $100+ for Supertours, $75+ for B-tiers, and $50+ for C-tiers.



also, we tried drastically lowering fees for the showdown (a tier) 2 years ago with no increase in participation.

But is the market really asking for higher entry fees? If you had charged $35 dollars this weekend how many people would not have attended because the entry fee was too low? Would Schweb, LL, Craig or Walt not have come because the entry fee was too low? I doubt it.

Your tournament is a bad example because of all the amenities.

Generally, if a tournament can fill up (72 or 90) with a $20 entry fee, then why charge $40? Seriously, why? Do baggers really beg for higher entry fees? Have pros ever told you that entry fees were too low?

Tournaments with pro divisions are judged on the payout to 1st place in MPO. I disagree with this methodology 100%, but that is the way it is. Without high entry fees for MPO, the 1st place payout for MPO shrinks and many people whine about what a crappy tournament it was regardless of how everything else went.

When the MPO entry fee is high, the other divisions follow suit. Otherwise it looks funny. If you are charging $85 for MPO, putting $45 for MPM and $40 for MA1 really makes the MPO entry look like gouging.

Until we judge tourneys differently, we will have high entry fees. Well, if the MPO division shrinks enough things might change, too.

I have no problem paying above average entry fees that have above average value.I'd rather pay $80 for a B tier with $1000+ added cash than $60 for a B tier with no added cash.

I do have a problem with paying $50+ for a 1 day C tier with no added value or effort put in by the TD. To me the TD is jacking up the entry fee because he/she was lazy and didn't try to get any sponsors, but still wants to have a decent payout. I try to avoid supporting these tournaments.

If meals significantly increase entry fees ($65 vs. $100), they should not be given out but maybe offered to players for extra money. If the meals are donated as sponsorship or obtained at a price well below the retail value then I don't have a problem with meals being given to everyone. I like it when the TD has somone from a local sandwich shop there in the morning taking orders and usually they have worked out a deal where the food is %25 below retail. I'd much rather pay out of pocket for a cheap sandwich than have everyone's entry fees go up because the TD thinks lunch would be nice.

For nearly the same level of entry fees all sanctioned racquetball tournaments include:
Friday evening - dinner
Saturday - breakfast, lunch and dinner
Sunday - breakfast and lunch.
As well as all the beer you can drink all weekend including as early as 8am Sunday morning should you happen to be done competeing that early and need a beer.
A players pack that consists of some article of clothing (usually a t-shirt, sweatshirt, long sleeve t-shirt, blanket, hawaiian shirt, jacket, etc) with the tournament logo and sponsor logos on it. As well as other things like balls, gloves, coupons etc.

What you won't see at a racquetball tournament:
Am payouts, Ams get a trophy for 1st and 2nd in each division.

With the exception of some of the larger events almost all of the added money to payout the Pros comes from the money payed by the Ams to compete against each other.

Kirk

But is the market really asking for higher entry fees? If you had charged $35 dollars this weekend how many people would not have attended because the entry fee was too low? Would Schweb, LL, Craig or Walt not have come because the entry fee was too low? I doubt it.

Your tournament is a bad example because of all the amenities.

Generally, if a tournament can fill up (72 or 90) with a $20 entry fee, then why charge $40? Seriously, why? Do baggers really beg for higher entry fees? Have pros ever told you that entry fees were too low?



if there were a higher dollar alternative available on a given weekend i do believe a couple of those guys would choose the alternative- dg is schweb and larry's primary means of income, it only makes sense. i have at one time or another heard pros say there is not enough money to draw them to one event or another.

imo competition is enhanced when there is more at stake, both for participants and spectators. i love gambling and will happily admit it. if millions of dollars were not at stake at the wsop no one would give a sh1t about it. the key is achieving a balance between what some players would like to play for and what others can afford- obviously the NT almost priced itself out of existence to begin with.

as for am entry fees- they are the grease on the wheels of commerce for many events- i do not question entry fees per se but rather the relationship of entry fees to perceived value in an event.

if every player, cashing, merching, or neither, leaves the event feeling they got their money's worth then the event is not overpriced whether the entry fee is $5 or $500.

i believe my tournament is a PERFECT example because of all the amenities.

I don't remember playing in any event where I thought the entry fee was too high. I do remember playing in events where I thought the entry was too low. Still it really doesn't matter, if the tournament is worth playing, I will be there.

Kinda off topic, but:

maybe it's not the entry fee amount but how it is paid out?

I have heard touring pros talk about the issue of top-heavy payout at big tournaments. Say at your average NT 8 out of the top 10 tour heavily, some full time(Schweb), some part time(Climo). For guys whom DG is their main source of income it is tough to finish third, 2 strokes out of 1st in a 3 or 4 round tournament and recieve $500+ less than the winner.

I think a flatter payout at the top(not more spots overall) would help touring pros because those that consitantly finish near the top would recieve more than mediocre(10th-20th) finish with an occasional win.

I don't remember playing in any event where I thought the entry fee was too high. I do remember playing in events where I thought the entry was too low. Still it really doesn't matter, if the tournament is worth playing, I will be there.



My experience has been exactly the opposite. I have never played in a tournament where I thought the entry fee was too low. On the contrary, I have encountered high entry fees so often that I rarely play PDGA tournaments anymore. I stick to Ice Bowls, monthly series events, random draw doubles and casual rounds with side betting.

Entry fees have been going down here in Texas. Several TD's have lowered there Pro entry fees in the last 2 years.

Thank goodness, I have not played several tournament because I can't afford to fork over $100 with little or no chance of cashing.

I am playing the Texas 10 finals, only because of the Bonus money. $85 entry fee for a 1 day tournament it just WAY to much. (But this is going to be an A-tier event)

Next year I will be playing Masters, several tournament charge less entry for that division and I will have a better chance of winning my entry fee's back.

Well, if the MPO division shrinks enough things might change, too



Well said Rhett.

I think the fees need to come down. I think that by lowering fees, you'll see a rise in entrants.

The only thing that bothers me is they tried it at the WACO NT event. It was like $85. The event didn't fill, didn't even come close to filling. We should have had a waiting list to play an NT event for $85. :confused:

I'd like to see a flatter payout too. I know the 1st and 2nd place finishers wouldn't like to see that, but the rest of the field probably wouldn't mind.

When are we going to quit catering to the 10 people that tour?

Feldberg has come out strongly in support of flattening the payout. Since these guys take turns in different places at the top, they will likely net the same amount of money over several events as with steeper ones. However, their hope is that more locals will potentially come out due to flatter and deeper payouts to boost the fields.

When are we going to quit catering to the 10 people that tour?



when scheweberger doesn't have his own post whoring thread :eek:
:D:D:D:D:D

dg is schweb and larry's primary means of income...



i thought it was larry's ONLY means of income...

oh wait - i forgot the allowance he gets for mowing the yard and taking out the trash.

This is the PDGA Maximum Entry Fee Table for 2006

<table border="1"><tr><td> Tier\Division</td><td> Pro Open and Women</td><td> Other Pros</td><td> Adv.</td><td> Int.</td><td> Rec</td><td> Jr.s
</td></tr><tr><td>A</td><td>90</td><td>75</td><td>50</td><td>40</td><td>30</td><td>30
</td></tr><tr><td>B</td><td>50</td><td>50</td><td>30</td><td>25</td><td>20</td><td>20
</td></tr><tr><td>C</td><td>30</td><td>30</td><td>20</td><td>15</td><td>10</td><td>10
</td></tr><tr><td>D</td><td>20</td><td>20</td><td>15</td><td>10</td><td>5</td><td>5</tr></td></table>
I think this is way too much meddling in details that should be left to the discretion of the tournament producers. The amount of the entry fee is not the issue. I'll gladly pay a Cadillac entry fee for a Cadillac tournament. The tournaments that I've paid the most for recently, like 2004 Worlds and the 2004 DGLO, have been worth every dollar. I can think of some tournaments that adhered to that pricing structure that were quite disappointing.

This is the PDGA Maximum Entry Fee Table for 2006

<table border="1"><tr><td> Tier\Division</td><td> Pro Open and Women</td><td> Other Pros</td><td> Adv.</td><td> Int.</td><td> Rec</td><td> Jr.s
</td></tr><tr><td>A</td><td>90</td><td>75</td><td>50</td><td>40</td><td>30</td><td>30
</td></tr><tr><td>B</td><td>50</td><td>50</td><td>30</td><td>25</td><td>20</td><td>20
</td></tr><tr><td>C</td><td>30</td><td>30</td><td>20</td><td>15</td><td>10</td><td>10
</td></tr><tr><td>D</td><td>20</td><td>20</td><td>15</td><td>10</td><td>5</td><td>5</tr></td></table>
I think this is way too much meddling in details that should be left to the discretion of the tournament producers. The amount of the entry fee is not the issue. I'll gladly pay a Cadillac entry fee for a Cadillac tournament. The tournaments that I've paid the most for recently, like 2004 Worlds and the 2004 DGLO, have been worth every dollar. I can think of some tournaments that adhered to that pricing structure that were quite disappointing.



Bruce did you miss the part where TDs are invited to contact Dave with any non-standard event requests?

A TD running a PDGA A Tier with $10,000 added cash at a premiere course with media coverage, etc. would likely be permitted by the tour manager. A tournament where all of the cash and prizes are based on redistribution of entry fees should be required to remain within the PDGA standards.

This is a good thing. Without it some tournaments could easily take severe advantage of participants and not provide value for the players entry fee.

You get that right?

Hopefully the formatting

Fee Players Revenue Cost Profit (Or loss)
$500 0 $0 $5000 $-5000
$125 20 $2500 $5000 $-2500
$100 50 $5000 $5000 $ 0
$80 80 $6400 $5000 $+1400
$50 100 $5000 $5000 $ 0
$20 200 $4000 $5000 $-1000

So it's really easy to see here; loads of players stay away when the cost is too high and the TD loses money. On the other side, for that bargain basement price that will bring them out of the woodwoork (which is a questionable assumption anyway), the TD doesn't take in enought to cover his costs and so loses money again.

So in this case the price is gonna be right around $80 :)

My professor said on the first day of class that now that we're all economists, all we have to do is tell 'em it's a matter of supply and demand.

If a TD meets the tier requirements for payout there should be no issue with his entry fee. A TD can rip off his players with a low entry fee as easily as he can with a high entry fee. There was a tournament last summer where the $10 value player pack was a mini and a sticker. That TD did not need high entry fees to cheat on the tier requirements.

One thing I've been noticing in the past couple of years is that tournament players have become much better educated consumers. I think message boards and e-mail have made it easier to out bad TDs and get the word out about good events. The players can figure out which events are good or not, and they will talk, post and e-mail.

Some TDs need higher entry fees to cover higher park use fees out of their side so that those fees don't cut into payouts. Some TDs have higher entry fees so they can cover lunch or other amenities without there being an impact on the payout. Some TDs need higher entry fees because they are running tournaments in the third or fifth wealthiest counties in the country and their players want to pay more and get more. A TD should not have to ask for permission to run a good event.

I think increase in entry fees is a two edge sword. It's an easy path to fulfill the tier requirements. It also discourages some folks on the fence from entering. If you aren't sure of your skills, are you really going to enter an event for $30+ ? Maybe, maybe not.

There are so many more PDGA events to choose from compared to when I started playing. It used to be that my husband and I could get a 2 day event for under $50 for the both of us. Now, according to the chart posted above, I have to pay $50 myself. I admit to being some what cheap, but I'm not into spending that kind of money weekend after weekend.

People are having to pick and choose which events they can afford to play. I used to be able to hit all of the events around my area. Now I can't afford to. I play the ones close to home where I can keep the expensed down. Disc golf is still a "hobby" for most of us. I know that I have never made a profit from playing, even when I win. I just defray some of my costs (gas, motel, meals, etc).

I believe that TDs need (and should be encouraged) to exercise more discression on entry fees. There are some areas where the demand is such that you can fill an event charging those kind of entry fees. However, there are other places where that fee schedule scares folks off.

You and players like you provide all the encouragement the TD needs to moderate his prices when you stay home. Moreover, if the TD simply is not influenced by your nonattendance, you and players like you can run low entry fee events.

The current prices are unrealistic. How can anyone run a tournament on a $5 entry fee? I've tried a couple of times and lost money both times. Any tournament run on a $10 entry fee is going to be a lame tournament no one will want to play twice, unless there is absolutely nothing else to do that weekend. These numbers seem to have been pulled out of the air with no real consideration given to the economics of running a tournament.

Why should it automatically cost more to compete in a higher division ?

gotta pay for the drugs somehow if you're playing in a higher division.

I think I was saying that the market should dictate the entry fees, in my own apparently obtuse way. I wasn't advocating that you run an event for $5.

Bruce you live in an area where there is a greater demand for events. You have the population base to support the events you have.

I live in a state with the population of the city of Denver. We just don't have a bucket load of golfers. Sure there is the hard core group of tournament players, but we don't have shear number of golfers that other areas of the country have. In those areas, the demand for tournament golf means that you can charge (and have people willing to pay) the posted guideline fees.

However, in areas like mine, the higher fees can drive folks off because we don't have the demand that other areas have.

I think that TDs should be encouraged to modify (reduce) the guideline entry fees if they feel that it will help with the bottm line of increased fields.

You weren't suggesting $5, the PDGA is mandating $5 for some divisions.


TDs are required not to exceed the values listed in this table in determining their 2006 PDGA net entry fees.
<table border="1"><tr><td>Division</td><td>Pro Open</td><td>All other</td><td>All</td><td>All</td><td>All</td><td>All
</td></tr><tr><td>Tier</td><td>Pro Women</td><td>Pros</td><td>Advanced</td><td>Intermediate</td><td>Recreational</td><td>Juniors
</td></tr><tr><td>A</td><td>$90</td><td>$75</td><td>$50</td><td>$40</td><td>$30</td><td>$30
</td></tr><tr><td>B</td><td>$50</td><td>$50</td><td>$30</td><td>$25</td><td>$20</td><td>$20
</td></tr><tr><td>C</td><td>$30</td><td>$30</td><td>$20</td><td>$15</td><td>$10</td><td>$10
</td></tr><tr><td>D</td><td>$20</td><td>$20</td><td>$15</td><td>$10</td><td>$5</td><td>$5</tr></td></table>

Recreational and juniors don't typically make up a big portion of our entrants, so it's a non-issue here.

I don't pay that much attention to other regions. They may well make up a decent percentage of entrants. Do they?

You weren't suggesting $5, the PDGA is mandating $5 for some divisions.


TDs are required not to exceed the values listed in this table in determining their 2006 PDGA net entry fees.
<table border="1"><tr><td>Division</td><td>Pro Open</td><td>All other</td><td>All</td><td>All</td><td>All</td><td>All
</td></tr><tr><td>Tier</td><td>Pro Women</td><td>Pros</td><td>Advanced</td><td>Intermediate</td><td>Recreational</td><td>Juniors
</td></tr><tr><td>A</td><td>$90</td><td>$75</td><td>$50</td><td>$40</td><td>$30</td><td>$30
</td></tr><tr><td>B</td><td>$50</td><td>$50</td><td>$30</td><td>$25</td><td>$20</td><td>$20
</td></tr><tr><td>C</td><td>$30</td><td>$30</td><td>$20</td><td>$15</td><td>$10</td><td>$10
</td></tr><tr><td>D</td><td>$20</td><td>$20</td><td>$15</td><td>$10</td><td>$5</td><td>$5</tr></td></table>





You should have quoted the note under the table.


It is suggested that B & C Tier event TDs indicate on entry forms that all current PDGA members will receive a $5 discount to their entry fee.



Now if I can just find a few TDs willing to go broke hosting those "free" tournaments.
:D

We get 30 or so rec players at a well attended tournament. Our fixed costs for rec players -- player packs, park use fees, pdga fees, sanctioning, insurance -- are the same for rec players as they are for intermediates. Rec players would like a payout just like intermediates. They like having some divisional CTPs like Intermediates. They want trophies too. There is nowhere room in the process for charging rec players $5 less and still giving them as good of a tournament as we give the intermediates. We charge them the same entry fee as intermediates and give them the same good tournament.

No TD should have to ask for permission to run a good event. You can't run a good event on a $10 or $15 entry fee.

on this topic bruce is 100% correct. (there, i said it. ;) )

cookie cutter fees=cookie cutter events. adhering to the table will merely bring many good events down to the level of the mediocre. the value in a tournament is almost totally unrelated to pdga tier anyway.

you get what you pay for. if you feel ripped off, don't go back. works for most other business formats in the world, why not dg tournaments??

i will continue to charge what i consider a fair fee for my events, sometimes it will be less than the recommended amount, sometimes more. anyone who feels i am ripping them off is free to stay home and [I'm a potty-mouth!] about it on this board or go elsewhere. i will go on record right now and say that for next years hawk hollow open c tier i will charge more than double the recommended fee for all divisions. i will also predict it will be full more than 2 months in advance of the event and all players will leave happy with their tournament experience.

jeez, i feel like jason and mike k.

Can I have my head back now that you are done biting it off??

I agree that if you have a significant number of rec. players and have to adhere to the PDGA guidelines, that it will be near impossible to put on a decent event for recs. It's not fair to have to suppliment the recs at the expense of the other divisions.

My point is that TDs should have some discression on the entry fees that they charge.

The discount discussed it the lack of a non-player fee.

If it is termed a discount, then it seems that it should come off the top, not erase a fee. IF I pay $10 with a $5 discount, I expect to see $15 go into the payout pot in my name.

I don't think anyone is biting your head off. I think John was trying to help explain it to those who don't get it. It looks like you get it. Whoever was awake when they voted on $5 and $10 entry fees has probably never run a good tournament.

Before Jon, Brett and I started running good tournaments for amateurs, no one in northern Illinois was getting 90 players out on their lower day except for Gary Lewis' Illinois State Championships. Our players are voting with their feet, and voting that $20-$25 is not too much to pay for well run, good value events. I know our costs better than anyone -- we can't run a good tournament on $5-$15 entry fees. I'd be surprised if anyone can.

We get 30 or so rec players at a well attended tournament. Our fixed costs for rec players -- player packs, park use fees, pdga fees, sanctioning, insurance -- are the same for rec players as they are for intermediates. Rec players would like a payout just like intermediates. They like having some divisional CTPs like Intermediates. They want trophies too. There is nowhere room in the process for charging rec players $5 less and still giving them as good of a tournament as we give the intermediates. We charge them the same entry fee as intermediates and give them the same good tournament.

No TD should have to ask for permission to run a good event. You can't run a good event on a $10 or $15 entry fee.

Sorry, Bruce, but THIS strictly rec player ain't buying it. What you really mean is, you can't cater to rec players' greed on a $10 or $15 entry fee.

Rec players say they want all a payout like intermediate players? Fine. Step up an play intermediate.

Rec players want divisional CTPs? "Fine. What are you donating?"

Rec players want a tournament-stamped disc? "That'll be $6."

Bottom line: if you can't meet rec players demands/expectations within the entry fee guidelines, DON"T OFFER REC DIVISIONS.

Bottom line: if you can't meet rec players demands/expectations within the entry fee guidelines, DON"T OFFER REC DIVISIONS.



But he can meet rec players' demands/expectations within the players' entree fee guidelines. That is why his tournaments are filling.

Not having done the math, but if the entry fee guidlines were met and the payouts were calculated, then the payout for first in the rec division would probably amount to one Epic and the last prize spot would be a mini pulled from the lost and found. /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Personally, I don't want to spend a lot on tournaments (nor does my wife want me to). This is why I played trophy only for most tournaments. I still get something from the merch table, a shot at CTPs, competition, hopefully some added holes for something different, and (at Bruce's tournaments) the opportunity to get beat by Bruce's daughter again. As long as the cheap trophy-only option continues to be offered, I will probably play twice as many tournaments as I would otherwise.

Trophy-only is a great option for those who want to play 'up' but have a limit on available funds. Since I started footing the bill for my son's college education, I am ever-watchful of money flowing in and out of my wallet. I want to play pro but find most tournaments too pricey given my entry fee is likely a donation. With the exception of tournaments offering a pro grandmaster division and a select 1 or 2 others, I am fixing my limit at $30.

TDs are required not to exceed the values listed in this table in determining their 2006 PDGA net entry fees.
<table border="1"><tr><td>Division</td><td>Pro Open</td><td>All other</td><td>All</td><td>All</td><td>All</td><td>All
</td></tr><tr><td>Tier</td><td>Pro Women</td><td>Pros</td><td>Advanced</td><td>Intermediate</td><td>Recreational</td><td>Juniors
</td></tr><tr><td>A</td><td>$90</td><td>$75</td><td>$50</td><td>$40</td><td>$30</td><td>$30
</td></tr><tr><td>B</td><td>$50</td><td>$50</td><td>$30</td><td>$25</td><td>$20</td><td>$20
</td></tr><tr><td>C</td><td>$30</td><td>$30</td><td>$20</td><td>$15</td><td>$10</td><td>$10
</td></tr><tr><td>D</td><td>$20</td><td>$20</td><td>$15</td><td>$10</td><td>$5</td><td>$5</tr></td></table>



i really like this guideline (there haven't been anything lower than intermediate divisions offered near me in the Cinci area since i started playing PDGA disc golf in 2003, and i agree with Felix that rec players who want bigger merchandise payouts should simply move up to Intermediate or Advanced).

i plan on playing Pro Masters this year, and on my income $50 max entry fee for B tiers and $75 max for A tiers sounds user-friendly to me. (i like the idea of having Masters fees lower to discourage the best Masters from playing down (instead of in Open).

How was this information released and is it a safe bet TD's are aware of, and will follow, it? Also, does an XB event have to follow these guidelines :confused:

The chart is in the 2006 Tour Standards Document (http://www.pdga.com/documents/td/06SanctionAgreement.pdf). It should be provided to all TDs that send in sanctioning requests. Actually, it should be read by all TDs before they send in sanctioning requests.

If you read the chart in the document, you will find that the amount only applies to the "net entry fee". To this amount the TD should add PDGA, Local, club, and/or series player fees. In other words, those are the amounts that should be going to payout and player packs. If followed closely, all Recreational and Junior players in A-Tiers can expect very little in payout since $25 of their $30 base entry fee is returned to them as a player pack.

Any TD who wants to charge higher entry fees can simply charge a higher club fee and the club can then sponsor "added prizes or added cash." There will be no enforcement if the players are happy and the PDGA gets its cut.

Based on your statement, there is no violation to prosecute. The local club charged a higher fee as allowed by the structure of the entry fee chart.

I expect to see the same fees, just broken out more on the entry form.

Base entry fee:
Pro=$50 - Adv=$30 - Int=$25 - Rec/Jun=$20

Mandatory additions:
PDGA B-Tier Player fee = $3.00
Charitable Donation = $2.00
Local Club fee = $5.00
Greens fees (private course) $5.00 per day = $10.00

Optional additions:
Ace Pool = $5.00
On-site lunch ($5.00 per day) = $10.00
Players Party discount entry($15 at the door)= $10.00

Total entry for an Adv player with no options= $50.00
Total entry for an Adv player with all options= $75.00

I'm going to play MPM this year except for split weekend events where I will play MA1 and travel with my family.

Unless of course the entry fees are structured like the upcoming Wintertime Open: MA1 is $35 and MPM is $75.

$50 or so I don't mind donating, but $75 is too much. If other tourneys do that I'll be playing MA1 even when there aren't split weekends.

The chart is in the 2006 Tour Standards Document (http://www.pdga.com/documents/td/06SanctionAgreement.pdf). It should be provided to all TDs that send in sanctioning requests. Actually, it should be read by all TDs before they send in sanctioning requests.

If you read the chart in the document, you will find that the amount only applies to the "net entry fee". To this amount the TD should add PDGA, Local, club, and/or series player fees. In other words, those are the amounts that should be going to payout and player packs. If followed closely, all Recreational and Junior players in A-Tiers can expect very little in payout since $25 of their $30 base entry fee is returned to them as a player pack.



Thanks Gary. The link you provided was actually the 2006 Sanctioning Agreement (http://www.pdga.com/documents/td/06SanctionAgreement.pdf).
Using it, i did find the 2006 PDGA Tour Standards (http://www.pdga.com/documents/td/06TourStandards.pdf) document which says:

Entry Fees: In order to increase the affordability of PDGA Tour events for players, the
PDGA is requiring that TDs use the 2006 PDGA Tour Entry Fees Table in setting their
maximum event entry fees. Events that charge above these norms will have to contact the
PDGA Tour Manger and provide evidence of extra benefits. See Table 2 at the end of this document.
[^the table Gary posted which i quoted 5 messages above^]

TDs are required not to exceed the values listed in this table in determining their 2006 PDGA net entry fees.

TDs are required not to exceed the values listed in this table in determining their 2006 PDGA net entry fees.
<table border="1"><tr><td>Division</td><td>Pro Open</td><td>All other</td><td>All</td><td>All</td><td>All</td><td>All
</td></tr><tr><td>Tier</td><td>Pro Women</td><td>Pros</td><td>Advanced</td><td>Intermediate</td><td>Recreational</td><td>Juniors
</td></tr><tr><td>A</td><td>$90</td><td>$75</td><td>$50</td><td>$40</td><td>$30</td><td>$30
</td></tr><tr><td>B</td><td>$50</td><td>$50</td><td>$30</td><td>$25</td><td>$20</td><td>$20
</td></tr><tr><td>C</td><td>$30</td><td>$30</td><td>$20</td><td>$15</td><td>$10</td><td>$10
</td></tr><tr><td>D</td><td>$20</td><td>$20</td><td>$15</td><td>$10</td><td>$5</td><td>$5</tr></td></table>



how likely do you think it is that TD's in 2006 will read and comply with these guidelines? i am hopeful compliance is common, because lower entry fees would enable me to participate in many more tournaments, but i worry that many TD's will feel the only way to raise the kind of prizes that lure top Pros (and make them happy they came) is to have high entry fees...

As a Master, i'd be happy if entree fees were limited to $25 and then players looking to win more $ would have to play Open, but that seems unlikely to happen.

with the chart near the end of the 2006 PDGA Tour Standards (http://www.pdga.com/documents/td/06TourStandards.pdf) document, isn't there a good chance many TD's will set their entry fees based on prior years and not read the guidelines until the tournament is almost upon them?

Please read the chart and remember it applies to net entry fees, not the actual fees charged.

Please read the chart and remember it applies to net entry fees, not the actual fees charged.



i know there is wriggle room, but it seems clear enough that the intent of the new entry fee chart is to lower entry fees. right :confused:

I like the new entry fee guidelines, I hope more td's follow it!! :confused:

Well..........when I win the loto , I will become a lifetime member !!!!!!! Maybe sooner !!!!