Congratulations to those who won the elections. We've got lots of excting things to work on to move our sport ahead including enhancements to the new bylaws which passed. If you don't think your vote counted, consider how close some elections were where a write-in vote cast toward a candidate on the ballot could have changed the election outcome.

I find the results for the question regarding attendance at a Worlds outside the US interesting. On one hand about 2/3 said they wouldn't attend outside the US for whatever reason. However, 1/3 would which is over 800 people who voted yes. If the votes are representative of the remaining 7000+ members who didn't vote, there's a potential pool of more than 3000 US members who might travel to a Worlds outside North America.

For elections where a majority was not won (like competition director), is the voting over, of does thier have to be a majority?

Apparently, it's whoever has the most votes which doesn't have to be more than 50% of votes cast.

Plurality wins. Crongratulations to Chris Bellinger. Just now saw the announcement. Sorry for the delayed congrats.

I find the results for the question regarding attendance at a Worlds outside the US interesting. On one hand about 2/3 said they wouldn't attend outside the US for whatever reason. However, 1/3 would which is over 800 people who voted yes. If the votes are representative of the remaining 7000+ members who didn't vote, there's a potential pool of more than 3000 US members who might travel to a Worlds outside North America.

so worlds will then be played by the people who feel like travelling to japan. not the best players. hmmm....

so worlds will then be played by the people who feel like traveling to japan. not the best players.



Looking at the field for the Japan Open would indicate otherwise.

Worlds should go to the highest bidder in the world. If Hero-san wants to pay $10 for it, that beats every bid the PDGA got for Pro Worlds 2006. The PDGA's added cash will look a lot more impressive when expressed as yen.

i'm sorry chuck, i didnt realize the japan open was a week long event for 500 players. my bad.

Not sure what your point is. I was making a positive statement about the real potential for a Worlds outside the US and you're assuming the best players wouldn't go?

i am estimating that the overall size of the field will be smaller, and that the closer the field size gets to "normal", the lower the average rating will be. just a friendly projection as to what would happen if the PDGA goes against the input of its members.

just a friendly projection as to what would happen if the PDGA goes against the input of its members.



What does that mean? It wasn't a vote for whether Worlds should be hosted outside North America but a poll for how many might attend.

i'm just saying that with such a high percentage of voting Members saying "no", such an event's prospects would appear rather dim. extrapolating the voting Membership to the entire Membership is useless, unless the entire Membership is eligible to play.

I would have been surprised if more than 10% voted yes. To me, over 30% saying they would consider going is a big green light for promoters in other countries to consider a future Worlds bid. Pro Worlds averages 300 players and Europe is drawing close to 100 for their regular events. Shouldn't be too hard to find a few hundred more from the US and other countries. Half of the players are now older than 39. Implications are that they would be more likely to have the financial resources and time to travel.

I think the only thing you can extrapolate from PDGA election results is that the members smoke a lot of dope. :eek: :D

In 85 there was a WFDF Worlds in Sweden. There were 20 plus Americans. Most enjoyed it more than the PDGA Worlds that same summer in Tulsa.

where can i find election results?

where can i find election results?



It's on the home page in the little box on the right. 2006 Election Results (http://www.pdga.com/documents/2006/2006ElectionResults.php)

what was the ratio of Pros and Ams in the voting response?
where did you get that half of the players are now over 39?


with 2,653 registered Pros in the PDGA, you would need over 10% of all pro players in the world to go play. i see no reason, other than wishful thinking, that the same 10% attendence we get in the US would carry over to an overseas location - especially if maintaining the quality of the field is of any interest.

your income assertion is interesting, but is not supported by facts. first of all, regardless of income, it is still a sizable chunk to spend a week overseas. how eligible players will choose to spend that amount of money is a matter for a much better constructed survey than a single line on a ballot.

further, if you are truly counting on masters aged players to fill the field, take a look at these numbers of players eligible for masters play:

2006: 440 players
2007: 509 players
2008: 569 players
2009: 650 players


so... i think it is a great idea to have Majors overseas. i encourage any overseas location interested in either a Major or Worlds to apply. i believe a Major makes a lot of sense... but that an overseas Worlds may be a bit ahead of its time.

Not sure that the US owns the right to host Worlds. The issue until now hasn't been whether other countries have the right to host Worlds but their feeling that they lacked the combination of resources in terms of venue, willingness, staff and/or financing. Japan was on the fence for hosting an upcoming Worlds but decided to continue focusing on their successful Japan Open.

Assuming an overseas bidder came forward, they should receive the same consideration as a bidder from the center of the US, even if the recent poll said only 10 US players would participate. Potential average strength of field shouldn't be a consideration. Those from the US who are World Class contenders will be there and not let the titles go easily even if the rest of the field turns out to be smaller and/or weaker than in the US.

Yes, I don't have a demographic breakdown that compares disc golfers over and under 39. Just using US stats that show more income and time for the over 39 group. Roughly half of attendees at Pro Worlds have been over 39 for the past few years so their willingness to attend isn't in question and their pools fill to capacity faster than Open. The over 39 group is officially 150 of 302 at PW2006 with several over that age still playing in Open. For an event that's been breakeven at best, the PDGA needs to be encouraging Pro Worlds bidders from everywhere.

"Assuming an overseas bidder came forward, they should receive the same consideration as a bidder from the center of the US"

for the record, i couldnt agree more. at the same time, i believe Japan made a very wise and informed decision for this moment in time.

Hopefully sooner than later the "World Championships" will be held somewhere other than the USA. Then it can truely be called a World Championships with players from all over the World.

I played in the WFDF Worlds in Sweden in 1985 with people from around 15 or more countries. It was a blast and a true World event.

Having an event and calling it a World Championship in the USA is a joke to people outside of the US. Look at examples like the College World Softball Series. Any countries outside of the US? Doubt it. NBA, NFL et etc all call themselves world champs...what a joke. Sure they may be the better teams at that sport but prove it at the top level. Actually check the US reuslts at the last Olympics in basketball. /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Having a "World Champs" at your local Texas ranch course where only Texans and Okies come is a sorry excuse for the title.

Nothing against these events but the name implies so much more. The World is far more than Texas, OK or the USA.

As the PDGA membership expands and more players and quality events are held around the world it can only be a matter of time before the next real World Champs are held in Europe.

As an example the World Ultimate Club Championships are being held in my home town of Perth, Australia this November. It is the first time held in the southern hemisphere. Over 1200 players from over 20 countries are flying in to one of the most isolated cities in the world to compete. Now that is a World Title!

This said I just got back from working Am Worlds in Tulsa and it was a great time and a great event. Well done TDSA.

Thanks
Chris :cool:

Speaking as one of those voters who indicated that I might attend a Worlds event overseas ... and also as one of those at the WFDF event in Sweden in '89 ... (and yes, that does pretty much give away that I'm also one of those players who is over 39!) ... I agree completely with Chuck. We'd love to be able to take the family to a Worlds that is in some other country. We're in a position to be able to do this now - in other words, we can afford it, our kids are old enough to come with us and not be a pain in the butt to look after, we have the vacation time, etc. We like to compete and we sure hope to play well at any tournament we go to, but choosing to make a big trip is "all about the experience".

On a related note, in my view, big tournaments do (and should) compete for players (because we can't all go everywhere) by offering various different things (money, prestige, convenience, etc). Some might choose MSDGC, some might choose the International Women's Cup, some might choose USDCG, USWDGC, the Charlotte Points Bonanza... etc. ) The PDGA championships do compete against other (usually PDGA-sanctioned) events for attendees. Worlds in a foreign country would certainly be an option that we as a family would consider very seriously !!

I feel that this will be the case if worlds is held over seas.

- Europeon / Asain players would be at an all time high in entries for obvious reasons.
- The Barry's Kenny's and Feldberg's of the disc golf world would still attend.
- Some older players would still attend b/c they have more time (retirement, part time work, etc)
- Young players with ratings below the 980 mark (like myself) woud not attend due to low probability of cashing and falt out not being able to afford coming.

I would expect young players below the 980 mark from those other countries would likely fill the ranks not filled by those US players in that category. Most overseas players play Open with only a few amateurs, although it was great to see a big Am turnout at the recent British Open.

"Having an event and calling it a World Championship in the USA is a joke to people outside of the US."

by that logic then any world championship in any country should be a joke to people outside that country.

world championships whould be held where the highest percentage of the best players CAN attend. not the best ones over 39 or the best ones that happen to live within easy reach of the event.

Yes but people outside the US don't call there local leagues or event winners "World Champions" :D

With the numbers as they are I wouldn't expect the Worlds to go overseas that often (maybe once every 4 years or so) but when they do it will mean a huge thing for the sports exposure. People in the US should welcome the opportunity and the competition.

As Vanessa said it is all about the experience. I was 16 years old when I went to play Worlds in Sweden in 1985 as apart of a 9 person Australian team. What a great event and trip that was.

As I said the World Ultimate Clubs in Perth in November have around 800 players traveling from all over the world (the rest from all over Australia) including juniors.

It can be done and hopefully will soon. The World is not that big a place.

Japan Open - now a huge event
European Open - getting very big
Australian Open in 2009 - will be big

Maybe an airline sponsor will come along soon.

Chris :cool:

world championships should be held where the highest percentage of the best players CAN attend



Unless they can't get passports, the best players can attend anywhere can't they?

Unless they can't get passports, the best players can attend anywhere can't they?


Well, we are talking about disc golfers. :)

I knew I could count on you pertaining to that :o

Yes but people outside the US don't call there local leagues or event winners "World Champions" :D



But the best players in baseball, basketball, and hockey all come here to play...

And the best aussie rules footballers and cricketers go to Australia to play.
The best Sumo Wrestlers go to Japan to play.
The best soccer players go to Brazil and England.

None of these claim "World Champion" status but do claim "National Champions". There is a difference. :D

And the best aussie rules footballers and cricketers go to Australia to play.
The best Sumo Wrestlers go to Japan to play.
The best soccer players go to Brazil and England.

None of these claim "World Champion" status but do claim "National Champions". There is a difference. :D



World Series :D

The best soccer players go to Brazil and England.



Real Madrid, Barca, AC Milan, and Juventus (until they got relegated...) play where?

:p

World Series :D



The World Series of Cricket consists of 3 different countries that change every year. The World Cup of Cricket the Top 16 countries.

Hey Dave, I didn't know you knew about cricket. Next time I am out your way we can setup a game in the warehouse. :D

cash and time requirements? there are factor for many of us.

congrats Pat on your new position

thanks chris, and everyone who voted for me because there was no other choice :) i will do my absolute best to be worthy of your trust and to work in a positive and productive manner with the rest of the BoD. i will also do my absolute best to win over the folks who wrote in other names, and hold the interests of all Members and the sport above my own. thanks again!

/msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif Wishing you good luck. :D

Chris,

Any chance you would consider the 2009 Australian Open as a 2009 PDGA Pro Worlds?

Challenges will always present international hosts for Worlds. However our membership is growing faster overseas than in the USA. Exposure for disc golf at ancillary events such as WFDF WUGC and World Games are prime opportunities to continue to expand the game further, such as into Central and South America, southern Europe, and Africa. I hope we can host local disc golf events alongside these world events to continue this exposure, and we are working closely with WFDF to get their involvement in the expansion of the game worldwide.

The inaugural PDGA Europe's European Open is another showcase of the growth of the game around the world. Alongside the Japan Open, these events prove to all in attendence that international hosts have both the capabilities and the hospitality toi run the best events in the world, and both draw the top disc golfers from around the world, no matter where they reside.

Viva la difference! ;)

Chris,

Any chance you would consider the 2009 Australian Open as a 2009 PDGA Pro Worlds?



Hi Nez,

I think for the next couple of years I will focus on the 2009 Australian Open as a major A-tier, building more courses and getting local numbers up.

Good things are about to happen in Australia so I am really looking forward to a big 2009 event. With that said the 2011 or 2012 Pro Worlds may not be out of the question. ;)

Ultimate is booming in Australia right now so we need to take advantage of those people and supporters. The World Clubs in Perth in November has a Million Dollar budget are are being underwritten by the state tourism commission. I am looking forward to meeting those people in November to drop Disc Golf in their ears. Anything is possible.

The future of international major events is strong all over Europe, Asia, and Oceania.

Thanks
Chris

I'm guessing that July or August might not be the best time period for Worlds in Australia, although perhaps a bit cooler than Tulsa or Augusta? Even if I can't afford to travel and play, maybe I can get the PDGA advance course review gig. :cool:

I'm guessing that July or August might not be the best time period for Worlds in Australia, although perhaps a bit cooler than Tulsa or Augusta?



Australia is in the southern hemisphere, so it's springtime there. Hi temps are in the mid to upper '60s. I could take that right about now!!

As an example the World Ultimate Club Championships are being held in my home town of Perth, Australia this November. It is the first time held in the southern hemisphere. Over 1200 players from over 20 countries are flying in to one of the most isolated cities in the world to compete. Now that is a World Title!


Can someone comment on how many countries have been represented at the PDGA World Championships, held here in the US, the past few years?

And, following the logic of "if it is named 'Worlds' then it should include the world", then for the "United States DGC", should we exclusively limit it to US citizens, as then it is truly a national title?

I am one of those who said I would consider travelling to Worlds in another country, because that is the truth - I would CONSIDER it, but that does not mean I am giving a guarantee that I would travel. Time and money of course are the two biggest problems. I think if we can get to a point where there are enough big sponsors in our sport to provide travel assistance, then it would be a more feasible option. That also, of course, implies that perhaps only a Pro Worlds outside of the US would garner enough support. I challenge you to find one ultimate team from outside of Australia who were able to put up all of the financial requirements for travel to and participation in the World Ultimate Club Championships on their own without help from sponsors or fundraisers, because that's pretty much how each disc golfer would have to get to a worlds outside of the US. It seems fairly obvious that anywhere you hold an event such as PDGA Worlds, you will have a higher percentage of "local" players. Hold it in Sweden, you'll have more Europeans; Australila, more Aussies; Japan, more Asians...

(oops, not a direct reply to whoever I clicked reply on)

I challenge you to find one ultimate team from outside of Australia who were able to put up all of the financial requirements for travel to and participation in the World Ultimate Club Championships on their own without help from sponsors or fundraisers, because that's pretty much how each disc golfer would have to get to a worlds outside of the US.



It has been along time since I played Ultimate but I am pretty sure that of the around 100 teams (over 1000 people) travelling to Perth very few if any have any major sponsorship. What they most likely have done is small fundraising on a local level with things like car washes, food drives etc. This of course is small compared to to the overall cost. They are still individual people travelling across the world to play and have a great time at their own cost.

There is no reason that disc golfers could not do or organise individual fundraising if they wanted to go overseas to a major event. It just comes down to how much you really want to go.

You are right to a certain extent about the numbers of the host country. However look at the Japan Open this year. A majority of international players. This is a good thing. At this point if the Australian Open was held now I bet we would have more International players, as the locals would be voluntering to make it all happen.

I think if a World Championships was held outside of the US then you wouldn't expect the same numbers of US players. Obviously payout would be a major factor but again sometimes the whole "experience" is worth more than winning a few dollars.

Just the fact we are all talking about things like this is awesome.

Can't wait to play international Disc Golf again. :D

Chris

Can someone comment on how many countries have been represented at the PDGA World Championships, held here in the US, the past few years?

i cant comment, but here is the breakdown for the MPO field from 2001 through 2005

<table border="1"><tr><td>2001</td><td></td><td>285
</td></tr><tr><td>CANADA</td><td>6</td><td>2.1%
</td></tr><tr><td>FINLAND</td><td>9</td><td>3.2%
</td></tr><tr><td>GERMANY</td><td>2</td><td>0.7%
</td></tr><tr><td>HOLLAND</td><td>1</td><td>0.4%
</td></tr><tr><td>JAPAN</td><td>2</td><td>0.7%
</td></tr><tr><td>MEXICO</td><td>1</td><td>0.4%
</td></tr><tr><td>NEWZEALAND</td><td>1</td><td>0.4%
</td></tr><tr><td>SWEDEN</td><td>11</td><td>3.9%
</td></tr><tr><td>USA</td><td>252</td><td>88.4%
</td></tr><tr><td>
</td></tr><tr><td>2002</td><td></td><td>126
</td></tr><tr><td>CANADA</td><td>1</td><td>0.8%
</td></tr><tr><td>CAYMAN IS</td><td>1</td><td>0.8%
</td></tr><tr><td>FINLAND</td><td>3</td><td>2.4%
</td></tr><tr><td>JAPAN</td><td>1</td><td>0.8%
</td></tr><tr><td>NORWAY</td><td>4</td><td>3.2%
</td></tr><tr><td>SWEDEN</td><td>3</td><td>2.4%
</td></tr><tr><td>USA</td><td>113</td><td>89.7%
</td></tr><tr><td>
</td></tr><tr><td>2003</td><td></td><td>150
</td></tr><tr><td>CANADA</td><td>4</td><td>2.7%
</td></tr><tr><td>SWEDEN</td><td>2</td><td>1.3%
</td></tr><tr><td>USA</td><td>144</td><td>96.0%
</td></tr><tr><td>
</td></tr><tr><td>2004</td><td></td><td>154
</td></tr><tr><td>CANADA</td><td>2</td><td>1.3%
</td></tr><tr><td>FRANCE</td><td>1</td><td>0.6%
</td></tr><tr><td>SWEDEN</td><td>5</td><td>3.2%
</td></tr><tr><td>USA</td><td>146</td><td>94.8%
</td></tr><tr><td>
</td></tr><tr><td>2005</td><td></td><td>128
</td></tr><tr><td>CANADA</td><td>3</td><td>2.3%
</td></tr><tr><td>FINLAND</td><td>3</td><td>2.3%
</td></tr><tr><td>FRANCE</td><td>1</td><td>0.8%
</td></tr><tr><td>SWEDEN</td><td>1</td><td>0.8%
</td></tr><tr><td>USA</td><td>120</td><td>93.8%
</td></tr><tr><td></tr></td></table>

this is from the online tournament database. i may have missed a pool (altho i double checked) but even if so it wouldnt change the numbers much assuming a random pool assignment

2000 PAW in Ann Arbor had a very good international contingent because it was also the WFDF Championships and the qualifier for the 2001 World Games.

"22" keeps coming to mind, but that was the size of the under-16 junior boys division that year, so it's probably not 22. But it was a lot.

Having the worlds outside the US might be the only way to ever get me to another worlds without it being in my home state NJ or DE. Australia has been on my wish list for many years now.

Any courses in Spain or Italy?

How about Cancun? :)