Consider this:
When working for a larger company, an employee can be rewarded financially for creating large accounts or bringing in new investors. This reward usually consists of a percentage of the total sale or account overall. We have many intelligent members of our organization. Often times intelligence and drive are mismatched because of improper motivation. I propose an incentive program, sponsored by the PDGA, that rewards individuals for efforts that bring in new sponsors and accounts. There are many untapped resources and wasted talents that we can bring to life with a kick in the pants. A handful of members working to achieve personal sales and recruitment goals while being compensated financially, can lead to our organization ultimately achieving its growth potential. We have what other organizations currently are lacking. We have a large group of people working without salary because they love the company they belong to. If we can create a solid research and development body that is paid percentages according to thier own sucess as promoters, we can have a powerful tool at our side of the table. Consider this.

Consider this:
For many years, TDs have had the option to retain a percentage of the purse for running events and many of them still don't take it either for themselves or even to spread among their staff. We've had a policy of paying 10% for sponsorship cash raised for big Minnesota events like the Majestic back as far as 1990. However, neither of these incentives have necessarily boosted the number of sponsors nor have TDs taken advantage of their incentive to run events.

I will say right now that those bringing a new sponsor paying at least $500 or higher in cash from outside our industry for the Pro Worlds next year will get 10% commission. Worlds info in my sig line below.

what a super topic and an issue that definitely needs more discussion.....

as a long-time TD, of events from small to large, from disc golf to ultimate to overall event tourneys, i recognize that one of the reasons i run events is because it is therapeutic in a selfish sort of way. i'm an organizer by nature, and when i'm involved in something i'm passionate about, i need to express my 2 cents and contribute my energy and opinion.

but on the other hand, as the bar has been raised in the disc golf community to hold and bigger and better events, the time commitment to be the TD of a major event like an NT event is becoming more and more burdensome.

the idea of paying commissions for sponsor dollars raised is a super idea that i suspect has been done at some events. we've considered it for the Skylands Classic at Warwick but have never instituted it. it's a great idea that theroetically provides some incentive for the sometimes uncomfortable task of approaching businesses to be sponsors.

however, this is a rewards program for those that recruit sponsors. and it's a great program.

but i'd like to hear some comments about rewards programs for TD's and for volunteers.

do other TD's of major events receive any form of compensation for their time and energy and contributions? if they do, or you feel they should, how do you balance this notion with regard to rewards for event volunteers? E.G. if the TD receives some type of compensation, what do you do about compensating volunteers that expend 50% as much time as the TD? or 20%? or 10%......

I've run disc golf or non-disc events my entire adult life, both as a passion/hobby and as an Events Coordinator professionally for a major charity, so in some cases I'm used to being compensated for my contributions. Doesn't it seem sensible that a TD of a major event that has a purse of "$X" be paid some compensation equal to some percenatge of "X"?

I don't always "buy" the disc golf vs. ball golf comparisons, given that they are light years apart in terms of their evolution and history and level of participation and publicity at their highest respective levels. But in some proportionate manner i believe their is some appropriate comparison. I'm sure the TD's of major PGA ball golf tour events receive a salary and perhaps run those events as full-time jobs for all or part of a year. And there is probably a paid staff to some degree.

Why shouldn't this be the case for major PDGA events, assuming the finances are such that this compensation could be justified? Perhaps there is no valid argument why this shouldn't be the case.

I own a business with 40 employees and I work 55-60 hours per week in my business. During the 3 months or so prior to my Skylands event I probably spend several hours per day attending to coordinating our volunteers and tasks for our event. This takes time and energy and focus away from my professional business, and theoretically some profit. I feel that it is justifiable for me to receive some kind of compensation relative to what kind of purse or added cash we generate for the event and the participants. Our club has taken advantage of the PDGA sanctioning agreement that stipulates that the local club is entitled to compensate itself to a specific degree if certain criteria are met. But that compensation belongs to the club and not to the TD.

I would suggest that it is appropriate for TD's to raise the bar for both the event, the local clubs, and themselves to an appropriate degree in terms of compensation. I think under the right circumstances this will make our larger, more prestigious events more professional and more successful.

Dan Doyle
Warwick, NY

I will say right now that those bringing a new sponsor paying at least $500 or higher in cash from outside our industry for the Pro Worlds next year will get 10% commission. Worlds info in my sig line below.



is a future world champion considered outside our industry? :D

it might make it worthwhile

I think that if a TD is getting compensated then all of the volunteers need to be compensated also. It wouldn't be fair for a TD to take a cut then ask for a group of volunteers to donate their time to preparing for an event. But it seems difficult to be able to compensate both the TD and all of the volunteers at the same time. Especially when some events might use 50 or more volunteers to run it. That's why putting any profits towards the club seems like a great idea, everyone benefits.
I enjoy volunteering my time to help out with club events. Its great to see members of the club working hard together in preperation for throwing a big tournament. But I'm not sure how much I would enjoy it if the TD was making money while all of the volunteers were simply donating countless hours. It's not a money thing but more of a respect thing.

I will say right now that those bringing a new sponsor paying at least $500 or higher in cash from outside our industry for the Pro Worlds next year will get 10% commission. Worlds info in my sig line below.

how should that be presented to the sponsor?

It doesn't have to be hidden but usually it's not relevant to sponsors the details how their money is specifically used. Sponsors care that they get what they request or is promised in their sponsorship package/deal, recognizing that their money will be spent on radio time, banners, promotional items, rentals, graphics design labor, printing and yes even commissions.

I will say right now that those bringing a new sponsor paying at least $500 or higher in cash from outside our industry for the Pro Worlds next year will get 10% commission. Worlds info in my sig line below.

how should that be presented to the sponsor?

There is no reason why a legitimate sponsor would expect that salesmen are not getting paid. The guy who calls you on the phone from Amvets or the Deputy Sheriff's Association gets paid. Everyone gets paid except in charities and churches. We're neither. There is nothing that even needs to be presented to the sponsor on this. When some kid knocks on my door selling magazines I'm not saying, "Wait, are you getting paid for this? I'm not subscribing to your magazine if you are getting paid for this." If the sponsor knew the salesman was only getting 10%, his only thought would be, "Then why is the guy only asking for $500?"

absolutely correct, JDB....that's why i brought up that question. there's no way i could justify receiving compensation and then turn around and ask volunteers to donate their energy and time for free. that's not fair.

Many volunteers are primarily volunteering time for a day or two before and/or during the event. For the TD and other members of the core team, perhaps no problem volunteering versus getting paid during the event. I would perhaps be fine with that as TD. However, who is going to do all of the advance work? I can't see volunteers holding it against the TD and core team for getting compensated for all of the work prior to the event. It's not like people are falling all over themselves to volunteer to do that. In fact, I think most volunteers are relieved that someone else has done those things so all they have to do is show up and do whatever it is they are volunteering for at the event. TDs also try to reward volunteers by covering meals during planning meetings in advance and during the event, plus providing staff player packs and staff appreciation parties depending on the size of the event.

I don't always "buy" the disc golf vs. ball golf comparisons, given that they are light years apart in terms of their evolution and history and level of participation and publicity at their highest respective levels. But in some proportionate manner i believe their is some appropriate comparison.

<font color="blue"> The only real difference is the size of the event. However, all sporting events are NOT created equal. All the organizational efforts, planning and running of the events are very similar. </font>

I'm sure the TD's of major PGA ball golf tour events receive a salary and perhaps run those events as full-time jobs for all or part of a year. And there is probably a paid staff to some degree.

<font color="blue"> Every PGA event is started as a corporation..ie.. "The Valero Texas Open Corporation", "The 86 Lumber Classic Corporation", etc... It is done that way because there is so much money changing hands and the tournament becomes a corporate partnership rather than just "..we are looking for money for sponsorships.." Yes the officers and all the employees of the corporation draw a salary to cover their work efforts.</font>


Why shouldn't this be the case for major PDGA events, assuming the finances are such that this compensation could be justified? Perhaps there is no valid argument why this shouldn't be the case.

<font color="blue"> There is no valid reason not to compensate people who spend their time and effort putting together a major or any size event for that matter. But I know from experience in other sporting venues that offering a 10% commission is very low to those folks that raise money for a living. Most of the professional fundraisers or fundraising companies are nearing 50% compensation, but they are also raising upwards of $500K in their efforts. When you run the numbers in reality, 50% commission on what is raised, shows a very small profit margin to the fund raiser, generally around a 15% profit. I don't know about you Dan, but if my business only ran with a 15% profit margin, I'd be looking for another business to own and run.</font>

Dan Doyle
Warwick, NY



Tom Lowry
Duncan, OK

I’ve thought for years that there would be a possibility of making a little cash after everything is paid for at the end of an event. However the reality is; after paying sanctioning agreement fees, series fees, PDGA per person fees, suggested and or fair payouts, course or parks fees, players packs, etc… I have never made a dime on any event I have hosted out of 20+. Even after hustling for sponsorships. For the most part I PAY cash out of pocket to ensure the success of the event and chalk it up in the end to personal “sponsorship”. Sometimes to the tune of $500+.

Not complaining though, as I feel the same way as Dan, in that I find the hosting of an event to provide me with therapeutic qualities. Nothing better than watching a large group of people enjoying themselves and knowing that you made it all happen. Do I feel like I SHOULD be compensated for my time and efforts? No! But I am not generally happy about having to pay to host an event either. Would I be happy if I COULD make some extra $ and provide everything that people expect from a quality event? Heck yea!

As a start the PDGA could compensate their TD’s with a 1-year membership for the year following their hosting of an event. They could set limits to what would qualify, like any event with 50 or more participants, or all “B” tier and above TD’s… Just a suggestion here and not trying to say in any way that the organization does not already provide some valuable support to the game we love. But I know personally, if I got a letter from the PDGA that thanked me for my services, and provided me with a membership, I would be excited to do it again the following year.

Frizzak great topic! Positive growth through course and event development, retaining quality TD’s, and educating the general public about the game will ensure the future professionalism of disc golf.
Pat Farrell

I will say right now that those bringing a new sponsor paying at least $500 or higher in cash from outside our industry for the Pro Worlds next year will get 10% commission. Worlds info in my sig line below.



is a future world champion considered outside our industry? :D

it might make it worthwhile



i guess i don't warrant an answer since i'm the only one who would probably come through with the sponsorship :p

I just couldn't decide whether the receipt of a future world champion as sponsorship should be counted as debit or a credit. :cool:

definately a bonus to have my girl!!! :D

Keith, you can have your choice of hole #1s for a tee sign sponsorship for $90 or you can send me $100 and I'll send you $10 back to make it feel like you got a commission. :DWith Pro Worlds including doubles, sponsors will get 8 full days on the course from Sunday, July 29 thru Aug 5.

that sarcasm is a good idea though...We are planning a B-tier and could use the hole sponsorship....180$ dollars to give away would be great...thanks.

As a start the PDGA could compensate their TD�s with a 1-year membership for the year following their hosting of an event. They could set limits to what would qualify, like any event with 50 or more participants, or all �B� tier and above TD�s� Just a suggestion here and not trying to say in any way that the organization does not already provide some valuable support to the game we love. But I know personally, if I got a letter from the PDGA that thanked me for my services, and provided me with a membership, I would be excited to do it again the following year.



What an interesting idea. One of my goals while on the BoD is to figure out value addons for the TDs. The TDs are one of the most valuable resource the PDGA has and we need to let us know it. Perhaps a pilot project with A-Tiers - that turn in scores on time and meet all the requirements - would be feasible.

I am going to ask Theo to put this on the agenda for our next teleconference.

Steve Dodge

PS. If anyone wants to bounce ideas off of me, please PM or email me. My computer is always ready to take your message.

Or what about incentives for TD's to give away PDGA memberships as prizes? We had a really good experience giving away memberships at our women's tournament. It has helped boost participation and all the girls seemed to think the memberships were really nice. With membership dues going up, it is going to be more difficult to do this in the future.

If I was ever offered a free PDGA membership for running a tournament, I would simply use it towards someone who doesn't have one.

Keith, you can have your choice of hole #1s for a tee sign sponsorship for $90 or you can send me $100 and I'll send you $10 back to make it feel like you got a commission. :DWith Pro Worlds including doubles, sponsors will get 8 full days on the course from Sunday, July 29 thru Aug 5.



is hole 6 promised to someone else already??
i only sponsor hole 6
what happened to the $500?
what is the cost for #6 on all courses?
i'll await your answers

keith

I'm still working out the details for the hole sponsorships. Hole #1s will be $100 and other holes less. Whatever that is Keith, I'll give you the opportunity to sponsor all five hole 6s and get the 10% commission on that total. When I said $500, it was for a non-industry sponsor that wasn't specific to tee sign sponsors. I really didn't want to deal with commissions on less than that amount. But I can go with your commission on the package deal this early in the game.

why didn't you just say that the first time? :D



i'm in for whatever you work out and maybe i'll just "use" the difference to "buy" cfr wraiths so it benifits both of us...you get all the money and i get some plastic :D

keith

If I was ever offered a free PDGA membership for running a tournament, I would simply use it towards someone who doesn't have one.



That would be great as well! More PDGA members with some becoming future TDs down the road.

I like the idea of "TD Appreciation".

To state the obvious, we all wouldn't TD if it wasn't worth it, but to be appreciated with a form of "Thank you" is just icing!


*Letter or framed "Certificate of Appreciation", which I received from the Alabama Sports Festival for TDing the disc golf event which was a nice surprise
*Membership...or a discounted membership
*Limited Edition disc or one personalized by Kathy @ http://discgolfdiva.com/ ;)
*Entry or discounted entry to Worlds (for TDs of NT events)
*Maybe even a rewards/points system with an online "Store" to cash in your points acquired through running events where YOU pick.... Oh, I see the paperwork piling up!! :D

There are several great ideas throughout this thread. Yes, thank you friZZaks!!

~Addie

For years there has been a %10 commission on anything the TD brings in. If he gets 100 discs donated, he can keep 10. The same with sponsor dollars or gift certificates etc.
I think they have raised it to %12 now, maybe more.
If there was more incentive, we might just have Pro TD's who do not need a "real " job. Those like Dan, know how much time is takes to run a quality event. It's hard to do an 8-5 job while you are planning a tourney. When do you make sales calls to sponsors, talk to the Parks people etc? You have to go during their business hours.
Volunteers don't get cash, they get stuff, special stuff if possible.