I couldn't find another area for this so here is an area for disc golf web designers to share info. A lot of what we've created is likely useful for other dg related sites so why not spread the wealth?

The challenge I'm facing is that I'd like for TDs to upload their event results directly to my site but have been unable to accomplish this in any elegant fashion (one record at a time). This summer I helped with the Windjammer results and used the PDGA results application; where there was a text area that the results could be copied from the MS Excel spreadsheet and pasted directly into that text area and submitted.

This would be perfect. Does anyone know who created this application, or how to create a similar one? This would be a great technology for local and regional sites to have.

Well, I don't know about the technology that you in particular mentioned. As the WebGuy for *all* of the local tournaments I just basically upload things simply and easily by inputting them in directly into an HTML template I created with very lightly coded (and quick to load unlike the things you get out of crapstain programs like DreamWeaver and FrontPage) tables.

As for in general I think I've found the most effective community website style is the "Web Portal" style. Utilizing, in particular, a variation of PHPBB2 called IntegraMod. It is very convenient if you set it up with all of the latest forum threads on the main page, a shoutbox front and center... works well. I usually try to modify the looks quite a bit although with TADGA this time I didn't really do much other than some color changes and an alteration of the header area

http://www.tadga.com/ being the site.

I've also begun work on http://www.northwoodsdiscgolf.com/ but it is still in a sort of beta-stage I just had some great ideas for it last night actually and I think I can make it look excellent by early spring and flesh out all of its features.

Sounds cool, but I'm looking specifically for the method used here at the PDGA site for uploading data from a form textarea, I believe that it is tab delimited. I don't know if Pat created it or if it was done by Volunteer of the Year Jason Haas. Whoever did it I'd really like to talk to you and see if I can't utilize something similar at my site. It is such an elegant solution considering you don't need to spend an hour on filling in a tenuous online form, you just copy and paste right out of the PDGA TD Report MS Excel spreadsheets.

I'm guessing there would be a lot of use for this at the local and regional club level. Plus it would be kind of like training wheels for when folks needed to use the PDGA results interface.

Nick - I think that you'll need to contact Theo to see if he can provide you with the code that parses the tournament results from that text "paste" area you mentioned.

I am pretty certain that Jason Haas authored most of that with some assists from Theo and Steve Gadd (I think) from California.

Not many realize what a slick piece of code it is...

That parser handles columns in almost any order, does a pretty good job a matching up user supplied field names with the ones used in the internal PDGA database and allowing the uploader to map columns manually. It can handle multiple "pools" of players within the same division and in 2003, Jason and Steve added special code to handle tee-times in the same field as starting hole assignments.

Needless to say, this is not a trivial piece of code.

It isn't a simple matter (I don't think) to simply grab the code and place it in the etherworld somewhere... It will require that Theo or someone scour through the code in detail to ensure that embedded passwords etc. aren't placed in the public domain.

I know that Nez has been working on a parser for our local club's website which will allow league directors to simply cut and paste their weekly spreadsheets into such and area and it will get plugged into a database for nicely formatted display of all league results. Hopefully, we'll be able to automatically incorporate generation of player ratings from that too.

Larry, I've sent a request to Theo about it. I don't need all of the bells and whistles just the ability to parse the data and load it into the db. I can easily create forms to input them field by field but that takes a lot of enduser effort and leaves a lot of room for error (as you likely know).

Jason used to be a homie around here, now he's out in Ohio(?). If I could see the code I might be able to reverse engineer it down to the more basic function I'm looking for.

Let me know if your bud has any luck with it. I'm looking into a possible AJAX solution, though again this will involve field by field input.

PS: Should disc golfers start our own Webmasters Support Group? I recall something of the kind a while back but lost track of it. I mean we've all got to be facing the same sorts of challenges, right?

what I'd like to see happen is for those us us who are coding-inclined to put some effort into improving the PDGA's setup. Right now they're halfway through with a redesign from one antiquated piece of software (Clipper) to another (MS Access). If four or five of us coordinate our efforts and build a new back-end system on something more robust like mysql or even (gasp) Microsoft SQL server, then expose that data via some standard SOAP objects, I think we'll vastly improve the way Disc Golf sites can operate. I've been trying to find support for this idea for awhile now. Theo seems set on the idea of finishing the migration to Access (and sometimes doesn't do very well responding to emails ;)), but I think if we could present them with something more technologically advanced that works a bajillion times better than what they have... it would be hard for them to refuse it.

I'm pretty flexible on the language and software used, but there are a few key features that I think are necessary:

- SOAP data access (both input and output)
- Access Control (to allow the public what it needs)
- a complete database rewrite (this will be time consuming, but what exists is... terrible)
- a rewrite of all the functions associated with the database currently in use, or a legacy "connector" that will interpret instructions from legacy code

I'd like to set up a CVS repository and someone should orchestrate a real project for this. I can even provide a development environment for this if the PDGA can give us the code that needs to be rewritten. I honestly believe that all of our lives (the DG webmasters) will be easier once the PDGA's tech is brought up to speed. There will be no more need for special super-secret code bits since everything will be written with industry-standard methods.

so, who's with me? :D

I'm listening.

We will need more than the two of us Gary, unless we want it to take a very long time :). Of course, our close proximity would help with brainstorming sessions...

What we really need to start with is a copy of all the current code that the PDGA uses. We don't need the actual database, just the schema. Then we can start to outline a plan for how we could make something like this happen. I've already talked to Theo some about this idea, and I know he has his doubts... but I think those are mostly related to the lack of real volunteer help. If we can show him that we're willing and able to do this on a volunteer basis, I don't think he'll have a problem letting us build a proof of concept.

What I need to know at this point is who wants to help, how much time you have to help, and what skillsets you bring to the table. I can then gather that info and present the project to the PDGA. If you would like, send me an email at jdann (at) discgolf portal /dot/ com (of course, remove the anti-spam spaces and characters).

I think we can really make something happen here. I just need help :)

I would be happy to help. Though, I know little about the effort you guys are talking about, I would love to learn as my web site knowledge is very basic (see my website HERE (http://members.cox.net/dg23837/index.htm)) I would love to help the PDGA in this capacity and along the way, apply that knowledge to help my local efforts. I am eager and a fast learner. Let me know if there is any way I can help.

I like your ideas but in my case I really don't have the time to commit to such an all consuming task. I'd just like a place where disc golfers involved in web design for disc golf web sites could lend a hand to one another and possibly share the web applications they create so that everyone doesn't have to reinvent the wheel. Like a show and tell arrangement, but where we could come up with enhancements as needed.

I work with PHP and MySQL mainly, though I have some experience with ASP. I'd really like to explore AJAX more. I've slowly moved my sights from static html to dynamic content management php.

Right now I'd just like to know how we are able to insert text copied from a spreadsheet and pasted in a form textarea into a MySQL database. Posting results is one of the biggest tasks I have as a dg webmaster.

PS: The PDGA does use PHP/MySQL, that is how I created the PDGA Course Evaluation pages and I'm pretty sure Pat did the PDGA Course Directory pages in that language as well. It's news to me if Theo is using an Access db for the site, but hey, at least it's not COBOL or DB2. ;) (Stable though they may be...)

Does anyone have server space where we could perhaps build a community for ourselves and see what we can do? Perhaps we could work on all of the above, with our own forum?

hey, I rather like DB2... ;)

I do have some server space that we can use, and I was thinking about putting in some VMs to use as a development environment. I need to beef up my server a bit more first... but that will probably be happening soon. I just need a core2 duo proc, motherboard, and at least 2GB of RAM and I should be able to easily host 4 solid VMs.

I also use mysql and php a lot, and can use ASP although I abhor working with anything resembling .NET. I've picked up quite a few languages in my career, and I think they each have strengths and weaknesses... but .NET just irritates me :D. Anyway, what are you looking for when it comes to server space? just a forum? I was planning to host a CVS repository and those VMs on it, but I'm sure I can squeeze in a portal site. This might be a good opportunity to get discgolfportal.com off the ground. Depending on the weather this weekend, I may have some time to get a decent foundation put in place. What sort of CMS software do you usually use? Mambo/Joomla is a pretty good one that is written in php/mysql and is easily extendable, I can throw that up tonight...

Feedback is good, let me know what you guys want and I'll start putting something together for us to use. It may or may not end up being the best thing, but at least it's forward progress.

Sounds good. Like I said my time is limited but I'd help out where I can. What I see this site doing is providing a resource for dg webmasters to share web apps they've developed and offer support to one another.

I'm interested in the Webmasters support group idea. It kind of looks like that's started here already. Sounds like a good idea. I'm interested in this topic and will be happy to get involved where I can.

Gary and I are working on getting ahold of the PDGA's old code so that we can start looking at improving or rewriting it. I know this idea is somewhat separate from the webmaster support group idea, but I'm still hoping that we can all work towards improving the PDGA's IT situation. If we do... we'll be able to do a lot more with our DG-related websites in the future.

I plan on writing score trackers, ace trackers, etc. along with a few other club-oriented apps for my site. I also plan on doing some more commercial-type improvements. I'm working with Ben at Titledisc to make some really cool changes to his site. The commercial-type stuff I don't think I should share, but I have no problem with making my club-type code public.

In the interest of the support group, who uses what software? For instance, if I write everything in PHP and use a mysql back end, my code won't be useable by those of us who use ASP and .NET or other such ridiculous things ;). I think I might put up a forum site for this purpose, with forums for the various types of code. If I do that... would it get used?

The PDGA has some conference call time that perhaps they'd be willing to let us use. Do you guys want to get together via phone and see if we can nail down what we hope to do?

I'm happy with the forum for now, but I'd be in for a conference call as well as long as we can figure out a time that works for everyone.

I added memory to my colo server this afternoon, so I can afford a decent-sized VM for this project now. I'm building that out tonight.

I'm primarily PHP/MySQL and working learning on Ruby on Rails. I used to do a lot of perl scripting too. I know some .asp, but I don't want to do any work that's not based on freely available platforms, like PHP, python, ruby, etc. I also do Quicktime VR production. I'm fairly comfortable with most web-related technologies, so if I can pitch in on PDGA related work, I'd be happy to on whatever needs to be done, as my time allows. (I'm a web developer and Mac consultant, so I do this stuff for a living, when I'm not out throwing :-)
How about Skype or iChat for conferencing?

Another PHP/MySQL user and developer here. I don't think I would have too much of a problem picking up another language. I've needed some motivation to learn AJAX and maybe this can be the opportunity to do so. =p

I agree with Joel's point about remaining open source, makes it easy for future developers to work on it, but as was mentioned earlier finding something interoperable is key since not all clubs use or have the ability to use the same technology.

well, this project will most likely remain a "private open-source" project. That means that we'll approach it in the same way that an open-source project would, but limit who can contribute and view the code. Since we're dealing with proprietary code and data that will be relatively useless to the rest of the world, this makes sense. We'll still be using concepts and ideas developed by the open source community, just tailoring them to the PDGA's needs. It will end up being a privatized solution using open standards.

That said, if we were starting completely fresh and building this from the ground up, I'd be all for using existing open source software. Unfortunately, there is too much legacy code that must be either used or re-written.

Anyway, I've not had a ton of time to work on the development environment, but I have made some decent progress. I now have it set up as follows (all linux RHEL4 clone servers):

1 web server
1 database server
1 dns/mail server (probably not going to be part of this project)
1 multi-purpose server

I will likely be adding one or two more servers to this setup within the next week or so. Once the environment is solidified and I have subversion set up, I'll start creating logins for everyone who wants to contribute. Then we can really get some work done.

Josh, I'm available for any front end stuff you might need.

When can we get access to the area? Will there be room for php/mysql dev too or is this exclusive to the PDGA project?

On another note: I really need to find how to parse at forms textarea to load into an mysql db so that TDs can easily load their results to our website. This similar to how the PDGA does it. (No response from Theo. Anyone else have ideas about this challenge.

Correction, I did get word from Theo and Dave and hopefully will have something to work with shortly.

If you are looking for another php/mysql guy - I will donate some time to this project as well.

If you would like a login for this project, please let me know here what your background is and what you're comfortable with (i.e. Linux-capable, Windows-only, etc). Nick, if you need a place to play with php/mysql, I can either set something up for you or you could just install php, apache and mysql on your PC :).

Sorry I've been busy lately, I just took on a new role at work so my free time has been pretty limited. The environment is out there, ready to start using... I just need the info above and if you do want a linux login (SSH only), PM it to me and I'll set it up and send you the info.

This thing has kinda been on hold because I'm not the only busy person out there ;) but once the ball is rolling I think we'll each find some time to help out. And if not... well, at least we tried and it didn't cost us anything to do so.

So what technologies are you offering on this server? COBOL ;)

PDGA.com does use quite a bit of PHP/MySQL

COBOL, of course! Well... COBOL with a Pascal back-end ;)

I've loaded up Apache, PHP and mysql. Gary has been working on getting the PDGA's schema so we can have a base to start "fixing". I've been trying really hard to find some free time for this, but lately I've been pretty swamped. Now my HOA says I've got to pull the weeds in my front lawn... I thought I was just cool, being the only one in the neighborhood with a green lawn in February :D

I'm still interested in making this happen, even if I can't do much more than let you guys into the server to mess around. I may go ahead and configure another VM that's logically segregated from the rest so that I can give out root access and let you all run with it until I come up with more free time. Nick, are you linux-savvy?

No, thought it is on the to-do list.

No need to explain business, we can all equate.

I think a starting point for all of this would be a conference call for those interested to get a feel for what this is all about. The PDGA has purchased minutes for such things. We could ask them, or perhaps use an online option.

Let's determin who's in first: I'm in.

Gary?

What ?

I'm working quite a bit lately. It also looks like I don't have access to the current PDGA server. The data I can access is a bit stale.

I'm in for sure, probably will have some free time on the weekends coming up with a 3-4 week gap in the tournament schedule. I do need to take a couple days and finish up discgolfportal.com so that people can start using it...

Who can take ownership of the following?: Contact the PDGA and inquire about conference call minutes, get the info for using same, and inquire about getting access to any schemas and source code they're willing to give us.

Someone who has contacts within the organization will probably do best at this, I've gotten mixed response. Usually, the email exchange stops with the PDGA simply not returning my last message. I'm not sure if this is because they're so much busier than I am, or if it's because they just don't have a use for 100% free development time from a team of talented developers, or if it is just that PDGA members aren't supposed to expect a response from the organization they support.

anyway, rant off... who can take this initiative? :)

On the subject of disc golf web design, does anyone have a database export for all of the courses? I've seen several directories that seem to have all of the PDGA directory information, but I have not seen anywhere that this file can be accessed. Any information that anyone has would be very helpful and appreciated.

I do not yet, but I should soon. Mr. Gentry w/ the PDGA finally got back to me about this project. We'll be talking soon and hopefully we can get started making information available in new and surprising ways :)