Had this discussion with a golfer last week.

If you are in the top of your division....what is more important. To not play good but do what it takes to win or to play very good and get beat.

Personally, I would rather play good and get beat. I feel that you can only control what you do, not what others do. IF you play good and someone beats you, then how can you be mad about it? I've had 7 adv wins and an open win and the best tournament I feel I've ever played, I missed cash in.

So what are your thoughts?

I would much rather play well and get beat by someone having the round of their life than to have the entire field struggle and win on dumb luck.

I think this speaks to the idea of "play the course, not the other players". You can only control what you do, and so you have to maintain your focus on that instead of worrying about "Am I going to win?"

I totally agree.

However, the other side of the argument is if you did what it took to win, then who cares?

I totally agree.

However, the other side of the argument is if you did what it took to win, then who cares?



Sure, if winning is the only thing that matters. I haven't won at any level in a sanctioned event. I came in 5th at last year's OHO in Int. and 8th in Rec this past weekend at the Poison Ivy Open. I feel pretty happy about both, because my game has not only gotten better, but more consistent. If these results get turned in before the next update, my rating will go up about 14 points. This will mean a jump of 53 points in 18 months since I started playing competitively. That's good enough for me.

That is awesome!!

I'm on the same level in the open division. I realistically dont expect to win. I'm just talking about the tops in every divison.

However, the other side of the argument is if you did what it took to win, then who cares?




I've never had a PDGA win so if I don't play all that well and the rest of the feild happens to not play well at all then that is just how it goes, I'll take that win for sure without a complaint, granted I want my best game at all times when I pay to play, but I'm not going to feel bad if the rest of the field sux also. If I play the very best that I can out there and get beat then I don't have any complaints either, I played my heart out and I know that. That's all that would matter to me.

My open win was like that.

There were 2 1000 rated players there and I didn't shoot a round over 1000 and won (granted there was a final 9 and I played really good in that and that would have been rated high)

There's a local guy I play casual rounds with about once a week with almost the same ability. I have never felt any shame when I've shot one of my best rounds ever and gotten beat, nor expressed joy when we both shot 10 strokes worse on the same course and I edged him by a stroke.

If you have to pay bills with your winnings, which alternative is most important is obvious even if it might not be personally fulfilling.

If you have to pay bills with your winnings, which alternative is most important is obvious even if it might not be personally fulfilling.



If you have to pay your bills with your winnings, you probably shouldn't be playing disc golf tournaments (at least not in 2006). Ten years from now hopefully things will be different.

Prizes are nice, but it's the satisfaction of executing my shots consistantly that's most important to me..

Playing casual rounds, I am most gratified by playing well (or practicing well the facet of my game I have deemed to be my focus for that round), but part of the fun of playing tournaments for me is the competition. So, I am quite pleased if I play relatively poorly but, to recycle an overused sportscaster adage, "find a way to win."

I'd rather win. A win is sweeter if you beat at least one player you think is better than yourself, but I'd still rather win. As a matter of fairness I think you should move up the day you play crappy and win, unless you are already playing Open. But a win is a win. Nothing beats winning.

MTL,
You seem to be dancing around something potentially important. What exactly do you mean by "doing whatever it takes"? Are you talking about cheating? Are you talking about working the other competitors with verbal or other distractions?
I have about 50 Open wins over a 19 year career - over 100 2nd/3rd place finishes. Is winning more satisfying than second place? Well duh - I don't know anyone who wouldn't rather come out on top. But at least for me - the ultimate satisfaction comes from knowing that I have competed honorably and to the best of my ability. This is the main reason why I am not a fan of our divisional structure. At 42 - I have yet to play as a Master in sanctioned competition. I feel to do so is a cop out. I know that as I grow older - the demands of playing to my potential becomes increasingly difficult - but that drives me even moreso to succeed - to use my experience to keep a good head, and play as focused as I am able. I know there are many more excellent players out there than when I first started, and that regardless of the venue, the competition will be fierce, with little room for error. I also know, or have come to accept that I am not going to get 1st place a majority of the time. I do know that when I play to my ability, that I have as good a chance at winning as anybody in the world.
It seems to me that highly rated Masters and Advanced players are more worried about winning than actually succeeding against their true peers. Their true peers include the entire mens field that are shooting within a given scoring range. Comparing the scoring range in the Open division around the country to that of the Masters/Advanced divisions yields a consistent and substantial overlap. Unless we want to have separate competitions for these arbitrarily defined groups, we should all be playing in one division. I think that our promotion of this divisional structure puts an unfortunate emphasis on the "importance" of winning. And I think this is highlighted repeatedly by the testimonials of players who claim they wouldn't play, or would play less if they felt they didn't have "the chance to win".

Sorry - off on my soap box again. Winning is best savored when earned honorably. Those that take the "do whatever it takes" approach are seldom honorable. And I don't understand why they would ever be honored instead of vilified by our community.

MTL,
You seem to be dancing around something potentially important. What exactly do you mean by "doing whatever it takes"? Are you talking about cheating? Are you talking about working the other competitors with verbal or other distractions?




Great post - just wanted to address these questions.

No, what I meant by "whatever it takes" is lets say a golfer is 1030. HE averages 1010 for the weekend and played bad by his standards. However, due to a weak field, he still wins. Although he did not shoot good for his standards he "did what it took" to win.

I would NEVER condone cheating or intentionally working another competitor to finish higher in an event. Those who do so are competing for the wrong reasons.

Sorry for the confussion.

From an Am Master rated 905: It's all uniquely relative, but when competing against a quality field & playing my best, whether I win, cash or DFL...it's ALL great. It's important just to be out there - competing and having fun.

If DG EVER loses its fun-ness; I'll find something else.

I'm not sure I have "Pro" mentality...but I think I'll take some lumps by playing any non-sanctioned events as a Pro this year. It certainly couldn't hurt my game! :D

I felt I played like crap this last weekend at the PIO, however when I saw my score after the tournament, I was only 1 stroke out of the cash.

To me, that made me much happier. Sometime the conditions make a difference.

Out of my 2 Masters wins last year, one was really nothing. I beat 2 or 3 other guys. (One of them just won Masters this weekend at the PIO)

The other one did not have that many players either, however I shot one of my hottest rounds ever and won the Masters Division by 11 strokes (I think it was that much) It was also a PDGA tournament (C-tier). If I had been playing Pro, I would have tied Barry Shultz for 2nd place.

That was the best tournament of my life so far.

No, what I meant by "whatever it takes" is lets say a golfer is 1030. HE averages 1010 for the weekend and played bad by his standards. However, due to a weak field, he still wins. Although he did not shoot good for his standards he "did what it took" to win.



OK well then I don't understand the question. If I play, and I win, but I didn't play as well as I could have, am I less satisfied? Is that what you're asking?

This would be an entirely different issue all together. I try to address this issue when talking to up and comers about having and keeping a good attitude when in the throes of competition. One of the hardest thing for any competitor to do, but by far one of the most essential elements of success, is to play without expectation. When you approach an event with an expectation of winning - lets face it - the majority of players are not going to meet there expectation a majority of the time. This is what I meant when I said I've learned to accept that condition.

When you go into a competition with expectations - you set yourself up for not only disappointment (when your expectations are not met), but you also introduce a set of potential distractions into the game that impede the very expectations you are trying to meet!! The best thing you can do to be successful in competition is to shed your expectations, and remove yourself from the end result. Focus on those things that are most enjoyable about the game, be it watching other peoples talents, trying all the shots you've been practicing, executing fundamentally sound disc skills, being with friends, being out in nature - those things are specific to the individual - there is no one right formula. But the premise is sound, and also.... healthy :)

My basic philosophy is this - you don't have fun because you're playing well, you play well because you're having fun. Focus on that - and you will be successful more often than not - and whether or not you come out in first place - matters less. If how you played was not as good as you know you are capable, but you still ended up winning - consider yourself fortunate and move on!

I agree completly.

I never set a goal to win or to cash or whatever. If I play good and have fun then I'm happy. Once again, I have cashed all over NC (big accomplishment), been on the lead card of a supertour, been in the A Pool in worlds after the cut, and won an open event, and I still consider my best tournament a tournament I missed cash at!

I was just referring to some conversations I've been having about winning and not playing well as compared to losing and playing good.

No matter where you are in a division, it is always more important to play well than to win. In fact, it's more important to have fun than it is to win.

I generally think its better to play better. I remember, fondly, the tournaments where I played well last year. However, you don't want to get your head beat in either. That is why we have various divisions for AMs in most tournaments. I am a Rec player who is old enough to play AM Grandmaster this year. If I play well I am happy. If that is the case, I will still be near the bottom in either master or grandmaster. However, if I play well I will beat more people in Rec. Who is kidding who, there is satisfaction in that. I guess that satisfaction can be balanced by playing with guys mostly my age. Reality- I play rec and hope to play well and beat some people rather than play master etc and hope to play well and still come in last. DFL is not a whole lot of fun even if the company was.

My first win as an advanced player was last March in a local non-sanctioned tournament. The weather and course conditions (cold & snowy) made play very difficult. No one shot very well, and I ended up with the best score of the entire tournament. I definitely did not play my best golf, but I felt that I managed the course and conditions well, and minimized the damage where other players were blowing up. Although I definitely benefited from my competitors not playing well, I am still proud of the win because I played smart golf, played within my game, and played to what the conditions would allow.

nanook

the way to win is to set the goal to win, prepare yourself to win, and believe you can win. most importantly, to admit to yourself that you want to win.

Had this discussion with a golfer last week.

If you are in the top of your division....what is more important. To not play good but do what it takes to win or to play very good and get beat.

Personally, I would rather play good and get beat. I feel that you can only control what you do, not what others do. IF you play good and someone beats you, then how can you be mad about it? I've had 7 adv wins and an open win and the best tournament I feel I've ever played, I missed cash in.

So what are your thoughts?


If you play the best you can during that tournament weekend and win fair and square, its all good, regardless of whether you played up to your rating or not. I play to win, but it is very important to me to enjoy myself. My goal is to play as well as I can, be a good sportsman and never lose my temper and curse. Many years ago I used to curse and get angry when I botched up. I acted like a fool and looked like one. I made a decision to stop it and I did. Since then I have been fortunate to have some success and even win. However, I always win regardless of where I finish when I dont lose my temper and curse. I really enjoy playing now and do play better because of it. I must be honest and say that it can be a bit disappointing if I don play as well as I had hoped to, but, the sun will rise again and I will make it up on the next customer.