Awhile ago we were debating this on another thread. Here's you chance to comment anonymously.

nice thread

Thanks Fan.

I like this one, too, Hawk.

Some numbers, albeit limited to DISCussion denizens, instead of anecdotes.

And the questions are better-written than most.

Responding made me remember the the couple of years when my wife, son, and I did a lot of Michigan competitions. We would talk with other at the afternoon player's meeting, and predict fairly accurately who would not be as much competition in the afternoon round - because we had seen them drinking beers at lunch.

I like this one, too, Hawk.

Some numbers, albeit limited to DISCussion denizens, instead of anecdotes.

And the questions are better-written than most.





Thanks Fan. I live to serve you. By the way people are saying on another thread they sell the plastic they win for $!

The problem I have with the pot question is: those two answers aren't the only ones. Does it matter if it's going to enhance your game WHEN IT'S ILLEGAL TO BE CARRIED JUST ABOUT ANYWHERE!? I never understood this. It becomes a bit silly to determine if carrying around a bomb would help my game, because IT'S ILLEGAL. It shouldn't be carried ANYWHERE, never mind in a professional sport.

feel free to create your own polls rather than complain about the ones someone took the time to make. also feel free not to vote! :D

my problem with the pot question is that it needs to be asked at all! :mad:

The problem I have with the pot question is: those two answers aren't the only ones. Does it matter if it's going to enhance your game WHEN IT'S ILLEGAL TO BE CARRIED JUST ABOUT ANYWHERE!? I never understood this. It becomes a bit silly to determine if carrying around a bomb would help my game, because IT'S ILLEGAL. It shouldn't be carried ANYWHERE, never mind in a professional sport.


I never even thought about whether wearing a Hamas Suicide Jacket could improve my game. Would it make you more focused? Would you be more relaxed knowing that the end was near, or would it be distracting? Hmmmm....

great idea...lets put this on a public forum, in full view of potential sponsors...I just dont see the need to publicize the fact that you get high, everywhere...Its like your children...hee hee hee, i get high.... Its a let down.... Why do you want to associate an illegal activity with the sport...I personally dont care who does what, in prvate or in public, for that matter...but Cmon....Its very childish....Im just saying...the friZZaks get down but dont need to tell everyone!!!....Its an annoying stigma that has been impossible to shake from the sport...Stop feeding the gorilla or your back will break. GROW UP.

great idea...lets put this on a public forum, in full view of potential sponsors...I just dont see the need to publicize the fact that you get high, everywhere...Its like your children...hee hee hee, i get high.... Its a let down.... Why do you want to associate an illegal activity with the sport...I personally dont care who does what, in prvate or in public, for that matter...but Cmon....Its very childish....Im just saying...the friZZaks get down but dont need to tell everyone!!!....Its an annoying stigma that has been impossible to shake from the sport...Stop feeding the gorilla or your back will break. GROW UP.



This always makes me laugh. Sure Ford Motor Co. is going to cruise through this bored and say,


We need to be a part of this!



The bigger problem is that this conduct is out in the open at every disc golf event held which is a much bigger PR problem than what gets written here. The fact that players can't behave appropriately in public is a much bigger problem than our discussing it here. I was at (Warning to Hot Tub Terry: Anecdote coming ) a recent charity Z-tier where the purported TD was enjoying some grain based beverage at 0900 and forward through the event at which he had invited the local rag's sports dude to attend for some publicity. During the award's ceremony (I was forced to linger due to extenuating circumstances) some participants were attempting to enjoy some non tobacco based product within 20' of said reporter. Not to mention the mass exodus to various vehicles immediately following the round. The comedy value of players storming out of vehicles at the "Bring It In" bellow was classic. By the way it wasn't cold.

I've been a gym rat for 21 years now, and shockingly some of the people working out in the various gyms I've been in are using illegal supplements. They are easy to spot to the trained and experienced eye, but in 21 years I've never seen two guys duck behind a squat rack so one can shoot a syringe load of juice in anothers buttocks. I've also never seen anything ontoward go on in the locker room. These "jocks" who are considered to be idiots by the general public know to keep certain behavior in the privacy of their home, and not flaunt it among their peers or the public. Why can't participants in a "sport" who want it to grow act the same way? Is it the culture of the "sport", is it the addict factor? I'd feel much better having a 10 year old child hang out in a gym than at a disc golf event.

me tell everyone? are you high? you guys do a fine job letting everyone know yourself. you are losers when it comes to keeping it private. but of course, we're the bad guys for mentioning the elephant in the living room. i think the fizzak is the one who needs to grow up. along with a significant number of others i see at events.

great idea...lets put this on a public forum, in full view of potential sponsors...I just dont see the need to publicize the fact that you get high, everywhere...Its like your children...hee hee hee, i get high.... Its a let down.... Why do you want to associate an illegal activity with the sport...I personally dont care who does what, in prvate or in public, for that matter...but Cmon....Its very childish....Im just saying...the friZZaks get down but dont need to tell everyone!!!....Its an annoying stigma that has been impossible to shake from the sport...Stop feeding the gorilla or your back will break. GROW UP.



Great idea lets ignore the problem and that will make it go away. I tend to agree with other people I don't care what you do in the privacy of your home. If your idea of fun involves a pitching wedge, a stuffed bufallo, and some ice cubes in a bubble bath and do it at home then that is fine. But as a teacher I know how impresionable young children are, you can live in denial and say they are not as I did when I was young but they are. I don't think you should do it at a PDGA sanctioned event. If you want to do it on the way to the tourney, during the break, or after the finish in your auto, home, or anywhere in private then that is an acceptable compromise to me. I can't imagine taking my daughter when she gets older to a PDGA event if this doesn't change. The rounds I have been too in general only last a couple of hours surely you can go 2 hours without lighting up.

[QUOTE]
I don't think you should do it at a PDGA sanctioned event. If you want to do it on the way to the tourney, during the break, or after the finish in your auto, home, or anywhere in private then that is an acceptable compromise to me. The rounds I have been too in general only last a couple of hours surely you can go 2 hours without lighting up.



I was talking about this on another forum but got a lot of mixed answers. I think that was the best said though.


My .02 is that if this sport is going to grow and get bigger if someone who is looking to sponsor an event saw this going on would they stay? Probably not

Whatever....
....what do u possibly have to gain buy starting a thread/poll like this....Absolutely nothing...

Great idea lets ignore the problem and that will make it go away.



I agree with FriZZ entirely! We know it's a problem, but continually rehashing in a public forum is NOT the answer. As far as "ignoring it", what can we do? It's already SPECIFICALLY outlawed as per the PDGA rulebook. That should answer it right there, shouldn't it? But it doesn't. If not that, then it's against THE LAW - that should do it, shouldn't it? But it doesn't...

So is it my duty to issue a warning every single time I see anything and start issuing strokes unapologetically? Or maybe I should call the police every time I see it at an event - that would solve the problem. Yes, I have the right, but I play disc golf to enjoy myself, and I don't think being socially ostracized for issuing strokes a tournament and causing legal ramifications is worth it. No thank you.

With no other proper steps to take, ignoring it is really the only prudent thing to do, and this is coming from someone who is staunchly against drug use. It keeps the spotlight off the problem which has no simple answer because of the stubborn-headedness of many (not all) disc golfers.

look at it this way: if the US population and PDGA Membership continue to increase at current rates, and the rate of marijuana use by adults remains stable at roughly 4%, then by 2076 the PDGA will have more Members than the US will have pot smokers. at that time we can truly say that discgolf is more popular than pot :D

graph (http://www.earthoffice.net/discgolf/pot_pop.htm)

Whatever....
....what do u possibly have to gain buy starting a thread/poll like this....Absolutely nothing...



1. Possibly convince Hot Tub that it's going on contrary to what he believes/states publicly.

2. Shame the PDGA into dealing with it at their events. If they can throw you off their message bored for violating their rules because they are a private organization then they should be able to throw people out of their events who are smoking weed, and not hide behind excuses like:


We're not the police.




We don't want to get sued.



Then stop pretending you're a legitimate organization and don't whine when the public laughs at disc golf as a sanctuary for stoners and losers.

by keeping it in the open i hope to gain a climate at events where i could bring my family or event sponsors. what do you hope to gain by not talking about it?

as long as we do nothing about it, nothing will get done. at least by talking about it we aren't letting it get swept under the rug.

i think the pdga could at the very least have a realistic penalty for drug use during an event. like a 90 day suspension with no warning. zero tolerance is the only way. also they should send pdga marshalls to random events to enforce it and take the onus off the tournament directors being the bad guys.

seriously, i could care less what you do in the privacy of your own home. but when you are giving my sport a bad rep i have a problem with that. obviously some people here would rather ignore it. feel free to also ignore this thread.

that is a very healthy attitude.

thanks laura.

believe it or not, i only want the best for this sport.

thanks laura.

believe it or not, i only want the best for this sport.



Dr. Empty...the ladies friend.

I only want a pit beef sandwich.

This just in: Ratings guru acknowledges disc golf not a sport. The Association scrambles to justify and explain it's existence. More details to come.

There have been many times I have wanted to introduce friends to disc golf, but am afraid they will see beer and weed at the course. I believe the sport could grow much more without it.

ballgolf shares the same extracurriculars as Discgolf...The only difference is that the size of holes and distance between players limits what others see...Also, ballgolfers dont have a smokin hole where they sit and puff and allow people to play through...The sport will grow in numbers no matter what happens...the only hard hing i gonna be shaking of the existing stereotypes that hand over us.

That is a very, very good point. I tend to forget about that.
I must admit ball golf does have the beer cart girl. I was drunk a lot more when spending time with the lawyers I played golf with than when with the people I play disc golf with.

no. ball golf has beer. which is legal. i have yet to come across dudes blowing a doob at a ball golf course. trying to compare drug use with drinking is a waste of our time.

trying to compare drug use with drinking is a waste of our time.



Oh. Did the PDGA change the rule against drinking while playing? Did all of those parks change their rules against drinking? Did all of those states lower the drinking and smoking age to 3?

While still trying not to sound like I blindly agree with everyone, I have to say that Terry has a good point also.
I know my parents would not approve of the drinking nor the smoking of illegal substances done at the disc golf course. Nor would my co-workers, chuchmembers, nor the professional association boardmembers that I serve with.
There is a difference between the beer cart girl and a bunch of beer cans thrown on the ground by a tee box or a smell arising from the woods.

I have to add to this this point.... Many of the Pro-Am and Am events I attend have been one big party and I wouldn't dream of inviting any of my co-workers or someone from my church. Not much chance of spreading the sport that way...

One Am event that breaks that mold is the Sierra Shootout by Mike Travers. The event has always been a model of excellent leadership with the players showing restraint and professionalism. Mike makes it simple... Break the rules and get DQ'd.... Every TD could stick to the rules and things would change.

And just to be clear... Most TD's make the proper anouncements about rules ect, but only certain venues and TD's are respected enough to keep the players policing themselves and such. Also some tournaments are just more intimate, that is close friends and very few new comers, which opens the door for people. So it depends.

zero tolerance is the only way. also they should send pdga marshalls to random events to enforce it and take the onus off the tournament directors being the bad guys.




Good suggestion. I hope it doesn't come across by me saying "stop discussing", that I thought that was a GOOD solution. But better enforcement BY MARSHALLS would be a great way to cut down. No warnings, automatic DQ.

As it is, when people ask me if they can smoke up during a TOURNAMENT round, my response is always the same, "I don't like it, but I won't turn you in." Not once has that prevented someone from smoking. They just took a few steps away to smoke up.

I'm with you, Evil, even if it sounded like I wasn't.

Yeah and murder and speeding are both illegal. But I hope one is frowned on more than the other. ;)

believe me, ballgolfers smoke,,,The point is they dont act like children with a new toy....Big deal...keep it to yourself...
p.s. i am going against my better judgement even writing on this thread. Post some positives!

believe me, ballgolfers smoke,,,The point is they dont act like children with a new toy....Big deal...keep it to yourself...




Two points, first is that is all I am saying keep it to yourself, do it before you get there, go to your car and drive around, once you get home, or during a casual round with your buddies. In all honesty I don't care what you do in privacy that is none of my business and I wouldn't even be offended if I was at say your house or at a party and were doing that I wouldn't join in but that is your choice. But I do have a problem with it at a sanctioned PDGA tourney, wait two hours, you can do it, I believe in you. Then we won't have to worry about this on the discussion board.

Second I know that ball golfers smoke but I have friends that do ball golf tournies and they have never heard of it during tournaments, which means either they wait until appropriate times, only do it during casual rounds, or are better at hiding(then again sometimes all they would have to do is try to hide and would be better than some I have seen).

Sending Marshalls to random tournaments is a very costly way of doing this.

If people would report people doing these things and then TD's would enforce the policy, there would be no need to send marhalls to events!

A way to see if TD's are enforcing this would be random emails / calls to participants in events. Like pick a few people from every division of a tournament on Monday afterwards and just email them and just ask if they saw anything, did the TD do the right thing, etc.

That would a much more effective and much cheaper way of handling the issue I feel.

Its already been proven that players will not turn in other players, 99% of the time.

If the PDGA would encourge more marshalls on a local level, there could be enough in any given region to show up at random tournaments. And I mean random, no announcment ahead of time. This will always leave doubt in the mind of the offender. Is some one watching? Is there a secret marshall around?
Kind of like random drug testing, is today the day?

Would you want someone to turn you in for doing something like that? Would you not be mad of #$*&$! off at the person?

People that get mad for being turned in for rule violations are just trying to pass the blame of thier actions on to someone else!

If people would report people doing these things and then TD's would enforce the policy, there would be no need to send marhalls to events!



Unfortunately most of these people have been around bud so much, they become desensitized to the fact (or they're smokers themselves).



[/QUOTE]first is that is all I am saying keep it to yourself, do it before you get there, go to your car and drive around, once you get home, or during a casual round with your buddies .

[/QUOTE]

This is the source of the problem...don't smoke freely on a casual round. Keep it out of site, out of mind ALWAYS. The typical disc golf course is normally in a typical public park. There are plenty of individuals using the park that would (will) be appalled by seeing or smelling the six guys at the bench on number 8 blowing a j. This is were the negagtive perception starts....

Trust me...I've been around ball golf all my life and they have just as large problem w/ coke, alcohol, and yes, pot as disc golf. The difference is those people who do these things keep it "out of site, out of mind". Ballgolfers don't feel like it's their god given right to smoke a j under the blue skies like disc golfers do.

I don't want to cast any stones as I am far from perfect...but I think if the casual disc golfer is the individual who will continue to fuel the negative perceptions of disc golf. I know many tourney players and if they do smoke, they typically will disappear between rounds or take a quick drive...they understand the repercussions if they're caught (and if they don't..shame on them and here's a nice bowl of DQ for ya)!

no. ball golf has beer. which is legal. i have yet to come across dudes blowing a doob at a ball golf course. trying to compare drug use with drinking is a waste of our time.



you obviously haven't spent much time on a ball golf course. you may not see it everytime, but that's more of a symptom of course set up/length and the courtesy rule of having set tee times with no more than foursomes unless it isn't a busy time (like frizzak pointed out).

the futile comparison isn't smoking to drinking, but our playground sport to ball golf.

trying to compare drug use with drinking is a waste of our time.



does this translate to mean: Rich likes to drink? :D

alcohol is every bit as much a drug as pot and if you study history the only reason alcohol prohibition was lifted is because people kept drinking it after it was made illegal and organized crime started to grow exponentially through illegal trafficking of alcohol. (it was easier to control and less of danger to the community when legal)

most public Parks where disc golf is played around here ban alcohol use and so you are breaking an ordinance and giving the sport a bad name if you drink or light up while playing in a public park. (i find myself picking up empty beer bottles all the time at local courses).

as to beer and weed at sanctioned events: it is and should be grounds for DQ.

i view neither as performance enhancing, but it's worth noting that some people are so habituated to beer and/or weed that they cannot go a few hours without a drink or toke without experiencing a loss of focus. to those people, not partaking becomes a problem -- but only because not partaking has become something there body-brain doesn't know how (yet) to deal with ...

could someone please address whether it is illegal this year for players to light up or drink after turning in their scorecards after the final round -- and if so: is the PDGA sending a letter informing all PDGA ,members or slating a paragraph to be read by TD's this year articulating this change in policy? (i know some players will be set up for failure here absent a "get the word out" program (plus it will be a headache for TD's iof everyone isn't proactively on the same page regarding this change)

could someone please address whether it is illegal this year for players to light up or drink after turning in their scorecards after the final round -- and if so: is the PDGA sending a letter informing all PDGA ,members or slating a paragraph to be read by TD's this year articulating this change in policy? (i know some players will be set up for failure here absent a "get the word out" program (plus it will be a headache for TD's iof everyone isn't proactively on the same page regarding this change)



Change?
I believe the rule stays the same "2 minute warning until scorecard is turned in"
:p
It never stated WHICH ROUND...1st or final.. :o

IF that has changed then there needs to be some sort of notification..
:)

Here is something MTL posted in the Ask the Board of Directors a question thread:


Let me publish an email I sent to an the one sent to me by <font color="green"> Carlton Howard </font> (with his permission), rules chairman, about this (I also want to point out that I am friends with Carl so I am delelting some personal info like how is so and so, good seeing at this tournament, etc.)

Carl,

I was reading over the new professionalism standards
for 2007.

Am I reading it right that it is now clear that
drinking or using any type of illegal substance in an
area what that is illegal (such as beer in a park)
even after the round is over is now considered grounds
for DQ?

Thanks for the clarification.

Robert

His response.... <font color="green">

Morning Robert,

You are correct. Illegal consumption in a park (where it's illegal) is grounds for DQ. The word "shall" is used, which is more mandatory than "should."

Generally meaning "will have to" or "must".

So players must be DQed if they're caught doing these things on the course OR anywhere in the park...including their vehicles.

take care,

chh </font>



Pat or Steve -- any word on whether there is an effort being undertaken to get the word out? I think crafting a paragraph to be read by TD's at all PDGA event player meetings is a good idea.

something like:

<font color="blue"> alcohol and illegal consumption of drugs such as marijuana on-site at any PDGA event from before the Players Meeting until the end of the Awards ceremony is grounds for disqualification. what you do in private is your business; what you do in a public park or at a PDGA event affects public perception of the sport of disc golf and those who play it -- so please act professionally. you are hereby warned, so expect to be disqualified if you disobey the PDGA drug and alcohol policy. </font>

Here is something MTL posted in the Ask the Board of Directors a question thread:


Let me publish an email I sent to an the one sent to me by <font color="green"> Carlton Howard </font> (with his permission), rules chairman, about this (I also want to point out that I am friends with Carl so I am delelting some personal info like how is so and so, good seeing at this tournament, etc.)

Carl,

I was reading over the new professionalism standards
for 2007.

Am I reading it right that it is now clear that
drinking or using any type of illegal substance in an
area what that is illegal (such as beer in a park)
even after the round is over is now considered grounds
for DQ?

Thanks for the clarification.

Robert

His response.... <font color="green">

Morning Robert,

You are correct. Illegal consumption in a park (where it's illegal) is grounds for DQ. The word "shall" is used, which is more mandatory than "should."

Generally meaning "will have to" or "must".

So players must be DQed if they're caught doing these things on the course OR anywhere in the park...including their vehicles.

take care,

chh </font>



Pat or Steve -- any word on whether there is an effort being undertaken to get the word out? I think crafting a paragraph to be read by TD's at all PDGA event player meetings is a good idea.

something like:

<font color="blue"> alcohol and illegal consumption of drugs such as marijuana on-site at any PDGA event from before the Players Meeting until the end of the Awards ceremony is grounds for disqualification. what you do in private is your business; what you do in a public park or at a PDGA event affects public perception of the sport of disc golf and those who play it -- so please act professionally. you are hereby warned, so expect to be disqualified if you disobey the PDGA drug and alcohol policy. </font>



/msgboard/images/graemlins/ooo.gif It basically goes back to the way it WAS...just in "firmer" writing? :p
:D

Here is something MTL posted in the Ask the Board of Directors a question thread:


Let me publish an email I sent to an the one sent to me by <font color="green"> Carlton Howard </font> (with his permission), rules chairman, about this (I also want to point out that I am friends with Carl so I am delelting some personal info like how is so and so, good seeing at this tournament, etc.)

Carl,

I was reading over the new professionalism standards
for 2007.

Am I reading it right that it is now clear that
drinking or using any type of illegal substance in an
area what that is illegal (such as beer in a park)
even after the round is over is now considered grounds
for DQ?

Thanks for the clarification.

Robert

His response.... <font color="green">

Morning Robert,

You are correct. Illegal consumption in a park (where it's illegal) is grounds for DQ. The word "shall" is used, which is more mandatory than "should."

Generally meaning "will have to" or "must".

So players must be DQed if they're caught doing these things on the course OR anywhere in the park...including their vehicles.

take care,

chh </font>



Pat or Steve -- any word on whether there is an effort being undertaken to get the word out? I think crafting a paragraph to be read by TD's at all PDGA event player meetings is a good idea.

something like:

<font color="blue"> alcohol and illegal consumption of drugs such as marijuana on-site at any PDGA event from before the Players Meeting until the end of the Awards ceremony is grounds for disqualification. what you do in private is your business; what you do in a public park or at a PDGA event affects public perception of the sport of disc golf and those who play it -- so please act professionally. you are hereby warned, so expect to be disqualified if you disobey the PDGA drug and alcohol policy. </font>

I wonder how this will fly here in Toledo, Ohio where smoking tobacco in public is illegal. Hmm...

I wonder how this will fly here in Toledo, Ohio where smoking tobacco in public is illegal. Hmm...



simple, law breaking actions are against PDGA rules. therefore, anyone smoking tobacco should be DQed.

On a side note, played a B Tier this weekend and the TD acknowledged the policy with drugs and alcohol at any time in the park, so obviously people know about it.

For the first time in a long time, I did not see a single person with a beer or anything like that for the entire tournament (even after the event).

I saw a few people with cups of stuff, but unless I went up and smelled it or what not, I would have no way of knowing what it was.

Seems like the new policy is working, so far.

90% of people respond that they have observed drug use at a pdga event. warning bells should be going off at pdga hq right now.

90% of people respond that they have observed drug use at a pdga event. warning bells should be going off at pdga hq right now.



Where have YOU been.... :confused:

NOTHING has changed since the beginning of this sport.... :p

This will NOT change much.......just put those people BACK into hiding :p
The PDGA is FULLY aware of the situation, which is why they tried to distance themselves from "Dealing" with it last year.
OBVIOUSLY they realized that they were missing the "big picture" and had to reinstitute a more strict rule AGAIN this year.
:)

All I think Rich is saying is that the big key is not that 90% of disc golfers have admitted to using drugs, but have admitted to doing so in competition.

There is a big problem with that. Imagine if you turned on a NBA game and saw guys on the bench smoking weed before they went out and played. Image if you turned on a PGA event and saw a few guys in the woods before they teed off.

Until we have drug testing in disc golf, people are going to do what they want to do. Personally, if a golfer goes home and does a drug, I really don't care (although I would like to see random drug testing at events). But when people SELFISHLY take thier actions to the course, there is a big big problem.

Actually, Dr. Evil said 90% admit to seeing players toke up during an event. Only 26% have owned up to doing it during an event. They must travel well.

ah, good call.

still an issue though.

agreed.

yeah, drug testing is a little over the top MTL. random enforcement by pdga marshalls would make more sense. or maybe td's should just announce that they have talked to the cops or park rangers and they will be watching the parking lot and course. ;)

why is drug testing over the top?

people are suspended left and right for drug issues in pro sports that arent steroids?

Why should we want lower standards? Just b/c most people use them?

I do believe that LITTERING is ILLEGAL and a $500 fine in Michigan.

So now that we're all going to be a bunch of snitches, when I see the MULTITUDES who smoke ciggies and flick the butt onto the ground, maybe I can threaten them with DQ or police action unless they swing $500 added cash to the women's division.....?

Why are the litterers never discussed when they have a more lasting impact on the courses that I play every day? You want people to take disc golf more seriously, I think that most people will notice the trash - especially the cigarette butts - which trash our sport more than anything else.

Also, when we send the random marshalls to sanctioned events to clean up the sport, maybe while they are hiding in trees and bushes they can pick up cigarette butts to make themselves more useful.

I would think that the since the very first rule of disc golf says "litering is a courtesy violation" that it is covered.

However, I rarely if ever see people litter during tournaments. I am confident most of it comes from casual golfers.

How about a poll that isn't open ended?

I have not seen drug or alcohol use during a PDGA event...

Nope, I saw it recently.
Have not seen it in the past 30 days
Have not seen it in the past 3 months
Have not seen it in the past 6 months
Have not seen it in the past Year
Have not seen it in the past 2 years
Have not seen it in the past 3 years
Have not seen it in the past 4 years
I'm legally blind. :)

I'm legally blind. :)



That's what they get for drinking players homebrew.

I'm legally blind. :)



That's what they get for drinking players homebrew.



But you can get a script if it's glaucoma! :D

So 19% have fessed up to drinking in a sanctioned round and 27% have toked during a sanctioned round, to me it's kinda like the immegal immigration situation in this country and the way our gov't is handling it. There are alot of law breakers, and everyone knows it, but too many to think about the punishment of all due to costs, logistics, etc.

why is drug testing over the top?

people are suspended left and right for drug issues in pro sports that arent steroids?

Why should we want lower standards? Just b/c most people use them?



FAR too expensive to implement..

Even the Military only actually tests 10% of the samples they take.... :p
Its just costs too much money...

Until this sport is creating MILLIONAIRES with HUGE sponsor $'s, etc. Drug Testing will NOT be possible.....or probable.

The key is ENFORCEMENT......

The PDGA tried to "ease" the "Duties" of TD's last year in this regard. NOW it is back on the TD. Not that I disagree with it, but it WAS a "stressful" situation that I as a TD didnt have to deal with anymore. All I was "responsible" for was DURING PLAY. It is NOT my duty to "police" what people do "on their own time". We are (mostly) adults. We know right from wrong (mostly).
-Scenario-

"Joe Am 2" is in 2nd after 3 rds.......He sees "Joe Am 1" partaking in an "questionable activity" during the break.. :p
He goes to the TD, who is trying his/her best to get EVERYTHING ready for the 4th rd, and "informs" them of the activity.
BY RULE...said TD must(SHALL)now stop whatever they were doing and deal with the situation......
Now in my walking toward this person everything is now "put away" and I am put in the situation fo "word vs word"

Am I suppossed to now determine WHO is right? :confused:

Is Joe Am 2 just trying to WIN??

Does Joe Am 1 have a "condition" that I am not aware of?? /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

ALL of this should NOT be a TD's responsibility...legally it puts me at risk as well :o

DURING play YES!! to the fullest extent.....

Its a VERY touchy subject...however you look at it...

Its an annoying stigma that has been impossible to shake from the sport....



its impossible because there are basically two categories of players: those that smoke, and those that used to smoke. its a true sterotype.

does it hurt potential sponsorship? yup. how can we change this: discourage people from smoking on the course. I mean at a lot of A tiers if you walk around the parking lot your probably going to see someone smoking if you aren't blind to it. the people who desire the sport to grow and gain major sponsorship need to be the ones actively discouraging this, not the ones doing it(not you personally, but other pros who would benifit from added sponsorship)


I personally have never smoked, but don't care if people do it on the course, or in my group. but I really don't care too much about increasing major sponsorship, unlike others.

Its an annoying stigma that has been impossible to shake from the sport....



its impossible because there are basically two categories of players: those that smoke, and those that used to smoke.


I'm pretty sure that my 15-yr-old son hasn't smoked, so that's an incorrect assertion.

Drinking and drug use both during sanctioned events and casual play keep the sport from growing, because these types of activities discourage (most) families from playing. Disc golf will not grow at a faster rate without popular recognition and particiaption. I just assume that those that drink and use drugs on the course are happy with the sport being a niche, clubby activity.

Its an annoying stigma that has been impossible to shake from the sport....



its impossible because there are basically two categories of players: those that smoke, and those that used to smoke. its a true sterotype.




I personally take that comment to be very offensive. Attitudes like this do not help.

its impossible because there are basically two categories of players: those that smoke, and those that used to smoke. its a true sterotype


I personally have never smoked



How do these statements fit together? If both of these are true, than you must not be a disc golfer...

its impossible because there are basically two categories of players: those that smoke, and those that used to smoke. its a true sterotype


I personally have never smoked



How do these statements fit together? If both of these are true, than you must not be a disc golfer...



that must be why it is said: the exception proves the rule ;)

i fit into category 2 so the stereotype sounds right to me :D

Drinking and drug use both during sanctioned events and casual play keep the sport from growing, because these types of activities discourage (most) families from playing. Disc golf will not grow at a faster rate without popular recognition and particiaption. I just assume that those that drink and use drugs on the course are happy with the sport being a niche, clubby activity.


That statement deserved repeating.

Drinking and drug use both during sanctioned events and casual play keep the sport from growing, because these types of activities discourage (most) families from playing. Disc golf will not grow at a faster rate without popular recognition and particiaption. I just assume that those that drink and use drugs on the course are happy with the sport being a niche, clubby activity <font color="red"> and are very selfish </font>



thought that was worth adding.

Great post.

its impossible because there are basically two categories of players: those that smoke, and those that used to smoke. its a true sterotype.




I'm mentally compiling a list of disc golfers who've never done any drugs. It's admittedly a small list, but whenever I bring it up, someone always has a name or two to add to it. (And most of the ones I know are in NJ. Odd...)

Is alcohol consumption allowed during tournament play? The rules stipulate " illegal consumption of drugs and alcohol."

its impossible because there are basically two categories of players: those that smoke, and those that used to smoke. its a true sterotype.



II'm mentally compiling a list of disc golfers who've never done any drugs. It's admittedly a small list, but whenever I bring it up, someone always has a name or two to add to it. (And most of the ones I know are in NJ. Odd...)



I bet if you could find out just as many ball golfers have done drungs or do drugs. And because they have more money they do differnt drugs than just pot. And I am not talking Pros here.

The bottom line here is that players will not stand up and call out any other player that violates the rules. It doesn't matter whether you call someone on a falling putt, or for illegal consumption you will be frowned upon.

Disc Golf is a sport that deserves to grow, but when a majority of it's players are too "scared" to enforce the rules because they don't want to be known as a "snitch" we will always have this issue.

I have been guilty of breaking the rules at some point in my career, but I have not used anything in many , many years. I have turned in players, given warnings and made people angry! Did it #$*&amp;$! alot of people off, yes it did! Did it make me get a reputation as a "snitch" yes it did. Did I really care whether or not I was "popular" not at all!

People that don't want to stand up for a sport that they believe in need to realize that recess is over. Players that won't enforce the rules are enabling others to break the rules. Until disc golfers can step up and do the right thing, this problem will always exist.

I know for a fact that I have brought out potential sponsors that want to invest in the sport with large amounts of money, have seen the pot smokers in the parking lot and the potential sponsors never even bothered to get out of there cars, let alone invest in this sport. Does anyone even remember why we don't get on ESPN very much!

I once heard ESPN showed up at a tourney, looked around and left. They haven't been back since.

I've never heard the full details of this sordid tale.

Do tell. 5 W's please.

That's a story I'd like to hear too.

Camera crew walked up to a 3 card back up, and some of them were smoking it up. The crew packed up and left, and as far as I know have not filmed disc golf since.

I bet if you could find out just as many ball golfers have done drugs or do drugs. And because they have more money they do differnt drugs than just pot. And I am not talking Pros here.



Many of our top pros dabble in "real" drugs, not pot. I know this for fact. I have seen many "bad scenes" at events, and just stay away. If you took the top 10 rated pros in our sport, and tested them for drugs, only 4 would be able to compete. This is fact based. I have seen it with my own eyes.

Imagine if you turned on a NBA game and saw guys on the bench smoking weed before they went out and played.




FLMAO ROTF

This is a bad example seeing as how 79% of NBA players admit to using pot.

Could you imagine athletes in any other sport smoking cigarettes during play? I would like to see this banned from play as well.

Imagine if you turned on a NBA game and saw guys on the bench smoking weed before they went out and played.




FLMAO ROTF

This is a bad example seeing as how 79% of NBA players admit to using pot.

Could you imagine athletes in any other sport smoking cigarettes during play? I would like to see this banned from play as well.



No, this is a perfect example.
If 79% admit to using, how come you never see it on the court ?
Cigarettes are being banned in more and more open areas across the country. Including some courses I have played tournaments on.

Just don't do it on the course or other places nearby where it will be identified with the course.

Daly smokes and drinks during the rounds :p

Daly smokes and drinks during the rounds :p


Yup Ive seen that on TV, and I would never let anyone drink or smoke pot during a sactioned event. Every time I hear about something like that the people have been kicked out of the tourny. So I wouldnt say people are scared to call it.

Daly smokes and drinks during the rounds :p


Yup Ive seen that on TV, and I would never let anyone drink or smoke pot during a sactioned event. Every time I hear about something like that the people have been kicked out of the tourny. So I wouldnt say people are scared to call it.



I disagree. out of the two sanctioned events i have played in our area both times I have seen players drinking and or smoking with no consequences. One time it was even on a pro card. I realize i am part of the problem by not calling it, but because it was not happening on my card i decided to ignore it. I figured if it wasn't bothering the other people on the card then why should i get in the middle of it?

Its an annoying stigma that has been impossible to shake from the sport....



its impossible because there are basically two categories of players: those that smoke, and those that used to smoke. its a true sterotype.




I personally take that comment to be very offensive. Attitudes like this do not help.



ok forgot to add in 2 categories:

-those who will smoke in the future(younger players)

-and the <5% of those that have not, and will never smoke.


If you want to pretend that say 25%+ of players have never smoked, go right ahead and keep pretending. cause its not true.


I think it was Kevin McCoy who used to post on here, saying that instead of appealing to major sponsors, we should market DG as an alternative sport. does this mean promoting drug use? no! what it does mean is not trying to portray DG as something its not.

for the vast majority of players, DG is a recreational activity, that they enjoy with friends or family once(or less) a week. do many of these casual groups smoke/drink- yes. PDGA members comprise a very small % of the number of actual players. so while we may be seeking to promote our NT events that are professionally run, many sponsors will still have the image of those casuals draging a cooler with them, and smoking every 4th hole.

maybe as more and more private courses open we will begin to see a seperation of this, but it will take a long time. major events that do gain media attention will help a lot in helping the public see a different side of DG.

Camera crew walked up to a 3 card back up, and some of them were smoking it up. The crew packed up and left, and as far as I know have not filmed disc golf since.



That's pretty much the same amount of detail I heard before.
That is, there are no details. When and where was this? Anybody know?

It sounds like disc golf urban legend to me.
:confused:

I don't think anyone thinks that 25% or whatever doesn't do drugs.

However, the asumption that everyone does or has is just as bad as asuming that 25% have never.

I think there is another catagory, those that have a few times and choose not too.

Bottom line, whether or not you smoke 20 times a day or havent once in ur life, the second you step into a public park both parties are equal and must follow all the same rules.

On a side note, I know a lot of people who do smoke in thier personal time, however, get very very angry when people do it on the course.

I think that most people think that the only ones getting mad about it are those that choose not to use the drug, which is def. not true.

Why not a poll to determine who does what now.

Have you ever tried covers a lot of time. I haven't in over 25 years. Only did a few times, but I can't say that I have never. I drink about a 6 pack every two years, but I can't say I never drink. I can say that I have never done either on the course.

...am looking forward to the the day a player gets "caught", and DQ'd, and expelled (1st, 2nd, 3rd offense?) from the PDGA for smoking a cig at a PDGA sanctioned tourney played in a "Smoke Free" park/DG course.

DG will go farther if it will at least semi-embrace its roots...OR, (seriously!) just plain ignores those roots. Stigma, stigmata...it's ALL uphill if the PDGA makes/chooses its overall image to be an 'extra clean one'. Let's all GET REAL. The numbers of casual players out there literally dwarf the PDGA's numbers... So, put a Marshal at every hole, on every course, every day for the next 2-3 years...and we can weed the bad seeds/folks OUT.

With the above being said, IFF a player gets caught, at a PDGA sanctioned tourney, breaking the rules, any rules...then he/she needs to be dealt with according to the rules.........IFF they are turned in. Will turning someone in for being a(n) habitual 'falling putter' advance the sport? /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif
High horses are for the lame...
.02 // YMMV

I learned something this weekend.

In RADL (Raleigh Area Disc League), we are strcitly enforcing the No Beer and no illegal substance policy during all RADL events (including doubles and non-sanctioned events).

Yesterday during a monthly I saw someone with a beer as well as smelled a group of players smoking weed. I turned them in and the player with the beer was DQed and b/c I did not see anyone actually smoking the weed, they were not DQed.

The players in the group play plenty of sanctioned events (one of which toured for a few years) and know the rules. The one who toured came up to me mad and said "this isn't sanctioned etc".

I feel that b/c non-sanctioned events are where many new players start out at and then progress into PDGA play, that they are carrying other players bad habits with them. Cracking down on the alcohol and drugs in non sanctioned events is CRITICAL in my opinion for helping the problem. If players understand that it is not accepted from the start of thier tournament play, the standard should natually carry over into PDGA play.

not true....

I learned something this weekend.





So what did you learn?

That the PDGA standard needs to carried out in non-sanctioned events to help improve PDGA events.

I didnt realize that breaking the law was allowed during non-sanctioned events but apperantly people think it is. But nice try on the title change

breaking the LAW?
ALL NON Sanctioned Events are not held in parks where its illegal to drAnk.

correct Jason. I should have def. clarified I was refering to events where it is illegal to do so in the area.

However, yesterday's event WAS in a public park where drinking is not allowed.

And last time I checked, even on private property, smoking weed is illegal.

If you want to continue posting, I can continue replying with logic.

you weren't even at the event and u are getting this mad.

unreal.

please continue playing homegrowns. PDGA events in this area DO NOT miss you.

and when you do decide to play a sanctioned event, be very very very careful. I will be watching you and everyone else.

Robert...Consider what you are implying...In Sanctioned events, someone breaks the rules of the organization, someone reports it, and life goes on...
However, if you start reporting people for doing things in everyday play, you are becoming a RAT(no longer a competitor)....The last thing you want to be is a RAT...be everything else you wanna be, but dont be that...word spreads fast.

Robert...Consider what you are implying...In Sanctioned events, someone breaks the rules of the organization, someone reports it, and life goes on...
However, if you start reporting people for doing things in everyday play, you are becoming a RAT(no longer a competitor)....The last thing you want to be is a RAT...be everything else you wanna be, but dont be that...word spreads fast.



RADL events have a no drug and no alcohol policy (rules of the orginization as you said). It's not like I'm sitting in the park during casual play and calling the cops.

People broke the rules of RADL and I reported them. Flat out that simple.

please continue playing homegrowns. PDGA events in this area DO NOT miss you.

glad to see you now speak for entire events

Next time I play with someone who is mad at me for turning them in for breaking the rules, fully expect me to foot fault, falling putt, throw practice shots, yell during your throws, etc. and you had better not report me.

See how rediculous that sounds?

correct Jason. I should have def. clarified I was refering to events where it is illegal to do so in the area.

However, yesterday's event WAS in a public park where drinking is not allowed.

And last time I checked, even on private property, smoking weed is illegal.

If you want to continue posting, I can continue replying with logic.




I never said anything about MARIJUANA...

LOGIC not MATH right?

Using terms such as "snitch" and "rat" could be considered derogatory name-calling and a personal attack. Message board users who persist in this behavior will be placed on probation and risk having their posting privileges suspended for subsequent infractions while on probation.

Please refrain from using derogatory names on the PDGA DISCussion board.

Would "Man, you suck" be considered derogatory name-calling and a personal attack?

you weren't even at the event and u are getting this mad.

unreal.

<font color="red"> When did i get "MAD"?
All I asked was what did you learned. REAL!! </font>

please continue playing homegrowns.
<font color="red">OH I WILL, DON'T WORRY!! Hope to see you out there. </font>

PDGA events in this area DO NOT miss you.

<font color="red"> TThank YOU, thats exactly the kind of comment I would expect from YOU.</font>

and when you do decide to play a sanctioned event, be very very very careful. I will be watching you and everyone else.

<font color="red"> AND I KNOW this! </font>

PDGA events in this area DO NOT miss you.

<font color="red"> TThank YOU, thats exactly the kind of comment I would expect from YOU.</font>



Hey, I call em like I see em.

Fact : every PDGA event I have been to after you were caught drinking (and I made a poor decision and did not report you for) that you have not been to, has had not a single problem with drugs and alcohol.

OHHH so I was the problem?

Man you guys love putting words in my mouth.

I simply stated a fact.

Yes now the sport is CLEAN.

Using terms such as "snitch" and "rat" could be considered derogatory name-calling and a personal attack. Message board users who persist in this behavior will be placed on probation and risk having their posting privileges suspended for subsequent infractions while on probation.

Please refrain from using derogatory names on the PDGA DISCussion board.



Not that I support ANY type of threat...

he did say IF...and NEVER directly called MTL a RAT!!
/msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

[quote.

(and I made a poor decision and did not report you for)

[/QUOTE]

So you DO favor people you are friends with?

unfortantly the sport is no where near clean Brad (it is nice knowing who is posting by the way).

Until there are more ppl like myself who step up for what is right and less people that get mad at people like me and less people that break the rules, the sport will not be clean.

I'm not saying I expect every single person who plays disc golf to be drug free, odds say that is impossible. All I saying is dont do it on the course or in the park, and if you decide to do so, be a MAN and own up to it and accept ur punnishment.

Maybe thats the problem. We ahve so many people who are not MAN enough to admit they were wrong and they made a mistake. Lord knows I have made plently of mistakes in my time in disc golf and I have owned up to every one of them.

yeah and i bet NO ONE has smoked or drAnk anything in the last 3 tournaments I have not played.

Using terms such as "snitch" and "rat" could be considered derogatory name-calling and a personal attack. Message board users who persist in this behavior will be placed on probation and risk having their posting privileges suspended for subsequent infractions while on probation.

Please refrain from using derogatory names on the PDGA DISCussion board.



Not that I support ANY type of threat...

he did say IF...and NEVER directly called MTL a RAT!!
/msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif



hahah I agree - I didn't take any offense to that post.

[quote.

(and I made a poor decision and did not report you for)



So you DO favor people you are friends with?

[/QUOTE]

*grabs inside of mouth and pulls out the words you put in them*

I report EVERYONE. In fact one of the people I reported yesterday was someone I consider a friend and have done quite a bit of traveling with.

yeah and i bet NO ONE has smoked or drAnk anything in the last 3 tournaments I have not played.



not that I have seen / smelled.

unfortantly the sport is no where near clean Brad (it is nice knowing who is posting by the way).

.



We agree.

Didn't we talk about this about a year ago Bobert. After being asked if running people that drink and smoke out of the sport would be all that good of a thing because the MAJORITY of competition would be gone, your answer was...
"WELL AT LEAST I WOULD HAVE A BETTER CHANCE OF WINNING THEN"...that is a quote, no words put in your mouth needed!! But something needs to be put in your mouth!!

yes, I did say that. Although it was said sarcastically, it was def. not the correct thing to say.

You know what, I'm going to say it. Team Trim (except for Schweb) is BAD FOR DISC GOLF.

You guys get on her and call me a loser and tell me to get a life, yet, when a real discussion comes up like this, you guys gang up on me and avoid the real issue that we are discussing to point the finger away from your problems.

GROW UP. I'm sick of everyone of you guys and the less I see you at PDGA sanctioned events is better. You guys constantly cause problems and have respect for the game, the rules, or anything else.

Beer and W aren't as big of a problem as people think they are. I think it's been taken too far. Big Sponsors don't even know what discgolf is, they are not kept away by someone drinking a beer at lunch.

The whole "Im watching u" thing is freaky too.

You know what, I'm going to say it. Team Trim (except for Schweb) is BAD FOR DISC GOLF.




Let's see if this is YOUR perception, or EVERYONE'S perception... [Link removed.]

You guys get on her and call me a loser and tell me to get a life

speaking of puTTing words in people's mouths...

You guys constantly cause problems and have respect for the game, the rules, or anything else.

you read it here, you can cause problems and still have repect for the game

In RADL (Raleigh Area Disc League), we are strcitly enforcing the No Beer and no illegal substance policy during all RADL events (including doubles and non-sanctioned events).

Yesterday during a monthly I saw someone with a beer as well as smelled a group of players smoking weed. I turned them in and the player with the beer was DQed



Here is my opinion�..if anyone cares. :)

Having a strict written rule for club events and functions is very wise. The relationship the club needs to have with Park & Rec leadership is vital to the success of the goals of the club. I am sure they really would want such a written rule in place. Also, it a very good to have such a rule in place when it comes time to deal with someone who goes overboard and is disruptive.

That said, �strictly enforcing� anything in club events is probably not such a good idea. Adopting a �don�t ask, don�t tell� policy is a much better approach.

Disc golf has very laid back roots and getting all huffy at events that are supposed to be fun is counterproductive. Skateboarding and Snowboarding are big time spectator sports (compared to DG), and I�m sure everyone in their right minds (including sponsors) realizes that those sports have a stoner stigma for a good reason. In a PDGA sanctioned event, I understand the strictness.....but to me, that is an element that adds prestige and seriousness of purpose that come with sanctioning and attending sanctioned events.

I have never smoked pot or done illegal drugs in my life (just needed to add a little self-righteous disclosure here :) ). I am the communications guy for our club (club BoD in my 4th year), like you are Robert. Far be it from me to tell RADL how to run things, but I have a hard time seeing an enthusiastic and fun club with the approach you are taking on this thread. Keep this in mind a year or two from now when you are asking people to volunteer their efforts and energy at work days.

Dave...

Word. (also a non-smoker)

If someone were to steal from your club during a non-sanctioned event would you allow them to continue to participate in your events?

I certainly hope not. So must we lower our standards for drugs and alcohol?

a great post by Chapman about grouping players was made on another thread and relates to drug use in non-sanctioned events.

"I think by the time they reach a PDGA event, they should at least know the basics of the rules. Local leagues and minis are the IDEAL place to learn these things.

Chap "

That said, �strictly enforcing� anything in club events is probably not such a good idea. Adopting a �don�t ask, don�t tell� policy is a much better approach.



I have been around enough city governments to know that there is always someone trying to kill one program in order to get the funding or land for their own program. All a person like that needs is to prove that the Disc Golf club is blowing smoke up the parks department skirt with their rule against illegal substances. One mole playing in or just watching a club sponsored event and the whole thing would fall down.

Just saying that if you don't plan to honor such a rule using it to help justify your existence is a bad idea.

On the other question about reporting players. To me it is a respect for the club/TD thing. If the TD/club has stated that they do not allow drinking or other things during the round, then I will report it. If the TD/Club don't want to know, then I don't.

From the fact that the player drinking was DQ'ed, the TD/club cared.

That said, �strictly enforcing� anything in club events is probably not such a good idea. Adopting a �don�t ask, don�t tell� policy is a much better approach.



I have been around enough city governments to know that there is always someone trying to kill one program in order to get the funding or land for their own program. All a person like that needs is to prove that the Disc Golf club is blowing smoke up the parks department skirt with their rule against illegal substances. One mole playing in or just watching a club sponsored event and the whole thing would fall down.

Just saying that if you don't plan to honor such a rule using it to help justify your existence is a bad idea.



You misunderstood what I am saying. If the club says that they expect event participants to follow park rules, then why is it the club's responsibility to use police tactics to enforce the rules? There are afterall, Park Security Guards and City Police on patrol.

If the club condoned breaking the rules, I agree with you. But how can anyone prove intent on something someone does not do?

If someone were to steal from your club during a non-sanctioned event would you allow them to continue to participate in your events?

I certainly hope not. So must we lower our standards for drugs and alcohol?



Not so. IMO, the most precious commodity that a club can nurture is cameraderie. Trust is another commodity that must actively be nurtured. Treating people like adults is important and what you are doing does not seem to me from an outsider's perspective to be nurturing these things.

What is the priority of the club and club events? I would say cameraderie is much more important than competition. I would say that in PDGA competition those priorities are flip-flopped.

There is a difference between taking action when blatant disregard is being shown that is so obvious it can not be ignored, and small time short-comings. We have had that conversation here several times in regard to stealing. Our Treasurer (Sam) has stated repeatedly that if we loose a few discs from our merch table to someone with tricky fingers, we are better off in the long run to not make a big deal out of it. If we harbor an attitude of mistrust and eagle eye policing around the merch table after events, what will that do to cameraderie? Same deal with the other club "rules".

We do not see it as a mandate for the club to remediate people with integrity issues. IMO, we are better off to accept and embrace people and give them the benefit of the doubt......and then let the natural dynamics of community deal with their issues (cheating, lying, stealing, boasting, etc.) I have seen some amazing transformation of people in our club. It has happened a lot of times where people have pulled others aside and addressed their issues. But those offenders were still accepted as people. After all, love/respect does cover over a multitude of personal failings.

Well I certainly hope this never happens, all it's going to take is the wrong (or right) person viewing activity like this is a park and the course is gone. It has happened before (See Burlington NC).

I feel honored and privledged to be part of club like RADL that stands up and says we do not accept this behavior in our events and / or on our courses.

People are going to do what they want to do. Bottom line, we can threaten any type of actions and people in the end will basically do what they want, however, all actions against the rules must have consequences

I find it funny that a spokesman a club as good as Charlotte is saying "we wont get you in trouble". That is not setting the standard where it should and I have lost lots of respect for the Charlotte Disc Golf Club today. I sincerly hope that your laid back attitude towards alcohol and drug use in your non-sanctioned play doesn't come back and bite you guys one day. It would suck for players like me who look forward to coming to charlotte once or twice a year for a chance to play some fine courses in a great atmosphere to come and there not be one of the courses b/c someone was caught smoking during a club event. When the player is questioned by police or park authorities just hope he isn't honest when he says "well I do this all the time and it's never been a problem before"

Rules are made for a reason. Why have rules in place that aren't to be followed? Having rules in place that aren't followed only diminishes the importance and enforcement of every other rule.

If the RADL (Raleigh Area Disc League) has made it a point to include in their rules that alcohol and drug consumption is forbidden in all RADL events, (including doubles and non-sanctioned events) then that's the rule. If you don't like the rule, then feel free to refrain from playing in RADL events, or lobby the club to change the rule.

Similarly, if you don't like the rule that alcohol and drug use are forbidden in PDGA-sanctioned events, then feel free to refrain from playing in PDGA-sanctioned events, or lobby the PDGA to change the rule.

It's absolutely ludicrous that a bunch of you can't follow the rules, and take your aggressions out on those who work to uphold the rules. It's absolutely intolerable that Robert Leonard should have to endure this grief for reporting those who egregiously and flauntingly break the rules.

keep TTrim, ban MTL plz

ban MTL plz



for what? Promoting following the rules?!!?

It's absolutely ludicrous that a bunch of you can't follow the rules, and take your aggressions out on those who work to uphold the rules.



Possibly the best thing posted on the message board.

Well I certainly hope this never happens, all it's going to take is the wrong (or right) person viewing activity like this is a park and the course is gone. It has happened before (See Burlington NC).



You have got to be kidding! With the garbage cans overflowing with empty beer cans and bottles, how on earth do you propose that the Parks Department does not know that there is drinking going on??!!

I am not 100% sure on this, but my understanding/recollection was that the baskets at Wellsprings got pulled, not because of drinking, but people were not putting their cans and bottles in the garbage cans - it got pulled for littering (those gang Elon students :o).

You have got to be kidding! With the garbage cans overflowing with empty beer cans and bottles, how on earth do you propose that the Parks Department does not know that there is drinking going on??!!




exactly, they do and I know of at least one course in NC after a PDGA event where someone was called about the ammount of beer cans in the trash can and that this was unacceptable behaivor inside a park.

Rules are made for a reason. Why have rules in place that aren't to be followed? Having rules in place that aren't followed only diminishes the importance and enforcement of every other rule.



That is simply not the way things work in real life. I think you are smart enough to know that ivory tower living does not happen across the board.


If the RADL (Raleigh Area Disc League) has made it a point to include in their rules that alcohol and drug consumption is forbidden in all RADL events, (including doubles and non-sanctioned events) then that's the rule. If you don't like the rule, then feel free to refrain from playing in RADL events, or lobby the club to change the rule.



That is what I am afraid of: If people are going to be rats in the rules enforcement game at club stuff, cameraderie will be shot.....and people will not be coming to events and work days. And, I am lobbying Robert to reconsider his ways.

I'm not going to allow someone to break the law in hopes I can get more people at a work day. If we allow the illegal activity to continue, it may be a moot point anyway, b/c we may not have a course to work on.

If someone is breaking the law, gets upset for being reported, then doesn't come to a work day b/c of this, then I think that shows thier true character.

You have got to be kidding! With the garbage cans overflowing with empty beer cans and bottles, how on earth do you propose that the Parks Department does not know that there is drinking going on??!!



They know. I've spoken with some of the top parks folks in our area here to see if they were concerned with disc golfers at events. They won't go "on record" but they tell me that our guys are no worse than the general public users of the parks. They don't consider disc golfers a specific problem, even though they know what goes on.

I find it funny that a spokesman a club as good as Charlotte is saying "we wont get you in trouble". That is not setting the standard where it should



I think we have set the standard where it should be set. The enthusiasm and participation at our club events is testament to that. We had 76 at our iCEbOWL 2 days ago.....15-25 people normally at our workdays (the Park & Rec powers-that-be know that and value that).

We have gotten people in trouble, up and to including a year ban from club events. Those people used those hard lessons to clean up their lives - most would comment that they have seen real change in those people since our club's disciplinary actions.


and I have lost lots of respect for the Charlotte Disc Golf Club today.



Well, just to let you know, today is probably the last day the PDGA will allow me to post here (not renewing my membership). So the CDGC need not worry about me besmirching their good name in the eyes of MTL any more.

I see where you are coming from for sure Dave. I ask that you do the same on our end.

If RADL is getting a ton of pressure from the Park Department to help them curb alcohol and drug use and your involvement with them hinges on this, then by all means do what you are doing. And be straight forward about it here and with your membership. If you are being legalistic about rules for the sake of legalism, you (personally and as a club) will reap the harvest of what you are sowing.

We had some problems here with some DG'ers feeling like they were above the general public in staying on the courses after the parks were closed. Park Management pointed this out to us....and believe you me, swift and definitive action was taken. We absolutely can not afford to not take seriously what they (Parks Department) take seriously!

our or my?

It seems there are plenty of RADL folks who could be standing behind you, but I don't hear anything... but crickets.

I am not opposed to what you did. I just think you are setting yourself up for an exit from disc golf, or from the Raleigh scene. that's my opinion.

It's good that the TD took your problem seriously. It seems you were searching out the W folks as you did not see any illicit behavior going on. That's a hair short of stalking in my book. again, my opinion.

I wasnt searching out anything. I told the TD this is what I smelled (which I smelled when I was about to putt) I did not see a single person using it though. If I had an agenda or a motive or whatever, then I would have lied about well I saw so and so doing this when in reality I did not. I did, however, cleary observe an individual doing other illegal activity.

As far as our and my, I have attended many many many unsanctioned events where these activits are accepted. Take the NC homegrown tour for example. Pretty common practice there - I would never say a single word about it. when I go to a homegrown event, I expect that stuff to happen.

RADL has different standards. I meerly reported what I saw and moved on.

Robert, I think that Matt has this right...You are setting yourself for a quick exit from the DG community...You know me and the fact that I dont 'partake' in those activities, but i wouldn't rat anyone out....Not my responsibility....And dont say that it is all of ours..thats poop!!!! Your responsiblites are self chosen. I like playing with you Rubbertoe, but i am afraid that if you keep up this negative crusade (w/ no positive outcome possible) you may end up alone, which is a much larger punishment than being DQ'd from an event...Yes, you my have a group of golfers that agree with you and even condone your actions and beliefs, but ask yourself: Are they just behind me or walking at my side? The differences between us are the flavors that keep us together...We cant all be righteous, nor do all try to be...If someone is blazing up in a parking lot, I will also let them know I think they are being a little ridiculous, and tell them to move on. Most people I know go off to the unseen areas and partake...Its not a big deal... Robert, consider what u are doing; is it helping anything?

you sure it wasnt just one of these: http://www.knowledgerush.com/wiki_image/d/de/Skunk.jpg
? your courses are in the woods, arent they? what could you report if you didnt see anything?

"I meerly reported what I saw and moved on" um, moving on would imply that you reported it and allowed the authorities, ie the TD, the Association, the men in blue, the Men in Black, whatever, to act according to their rules. it does not seem to imply posting gory details and ranting on an entire region.

skunked beer is the worst! :eek: :D

Robert, I think that Matt has this right...You are setting yourself for a quick exit from the DG community...



Funny that I'm the one who people think are going to leave, yet there are people who are not showing up at tournaments b/c I'm there. That is completly backwards from you thoughts. Here I am, someone who has played mroe than 25 events for 3 years in a row and soon to be 4 the one who people think is going to leave.


You know me and the fact that I dont 'partake' in those activities, but i wouldn't rat anyone out....Not my responsibility....And dont say that it is all of ours..



The rules have been set up that it is all of our responsibilites to call them. If someone sees someone smoking weed and doesnt say anything then the next hole calls someone for a falling putt then I must say that person is a hypocrit. I'm not saying this has ever happened or what not....just an example. Whether or not I have a problem with weed (which I personally feel should be legal) has nothing to do with my compaign to get disc golf clean during tournament play. It has to do with the preception that the general public has of weed and realizing that our sport must rid ourselves of that perception for the game to be considered a recoginizable sport. Everytime I hear someone say disc golf - oh thats game where you go in the woods and get high and drink, I get sick to my stomach. If thats the image that we want, then ur durn right I want to get out of disc golf. But thats not the image we want, we want to be seen as a real sport with personalities like no other and golfers with amazing power and talent and just how difficult it is to control a disc like some guys do - thats the image we want.


but i am afraid that if you keep up this negative crusade (w/ no positive outcome possible) you may end up alone, which is a much larger punishment than being DQ'd from an event.



If I was compaining to stop literring on the course then people would be like "good stuff MTL, thats great" simply b/c the majority of disc golfers who are competitive have respect enough for the course and don't litter. However, since many disc golfers do use drugs, this topic eats at them. "MTL tryng to ruin my fun". Once again, hypocrits.


Yes, you my have a group of golfers that agree with you and even condone your actions and beliefs




Yes I do - they are called "people who care about disc golf"


We cant all be righteous, nor do all try to be



I agree - no one is perfect. However, those that chose to break the rules must be punished. I am sorry if that rule involves something that most people want to do. Seems to me that everyone should be complaining to the rules committee who wrote the rule involving beer and weed instead of those who simply enforce it.



If someone is blazing up in a parking lot, I will also let them know I think they are being a little ridiculous, and tell them to move on.



Then you should also inform them they are now subject to DQ by the tournament director.


Most people I know go off to the unseen areas and partake...Its not a big deal



See thats the problem Sjur / Bard / Jeff / Matt / John (seeing as I don't know who made this post, I will refer to you as that), it is a big deal. you think that it is not and then people do it and you do nothing about it. Then here comes MTL, the guy who hates everyone, to enforce it. A player of you guys ability is seen as a role model for younger and newer players. I know when I was growing up in disc golf, I looked up to Carlton Howard and Kirk Yoo who follow and enforce the rules. Every time a new player comes to the game and sees what is going on, his impressions of the sport are totally wrong.


Robert, consider what u are doing; is it helping anything?



People who are breaking rules are choosing to play in non PDGA events where those things are generally accepted and also those that are playing the events are following the rules - I've noticed a tremendous improvement in NC tournaments regarding this. Maybe these players know I will turn them in. Either way sounds like its working to me.

It was in the woods where the action took place and they were the only group in the woods (the woods are only 3 holes on the course) besides us. I merely told the TD what I smelled afterwards (and ive smelled it enough to know what it is - besides everyone got defensive about it aka indrectly admitting thier guilt).

The TD with the facts made his decision. I did what I could and thats all I can ever do.

I'm glad snowboarders don't have these idiotic conversations.

whatever rubbertoe...u should spend your time practice putting instead of becoming a Mgruff. Its very unbecoming....And i think you will find out the hard way what the consequences of your actions are. There a a couple ways to become 'well known' rubbertoe...you are choosing the route with the most negative consequences...and this is Sjur...you should have figured that out....unless you were nonchalantly policing this board.

you are choosing the route with the most negative consequences



choosing the path of promoting following the rules has the negative consequences? You know how rediculous that sounds.

By the way, the next time we play together, thanks in advance for not calling those practice throws I'm gonna take.

I'm glad snowboarders don't have these idiotic conversations.



yet snowboarding has drug testing before and after events and also is on ESPN and the olympics.

I think that snowboarding should be disc golf's model for success. Similar backgrounds, similar perception, yet they are much further along in the sports world than we are.

WOW....watch you tone....

and i dont mean following the rules.....I mean becoming the villian in many peoples eyes...Remember that praise spreads a lot slower than than distaste...BTW, i NEVER said what you're doing is wrong. I said you should reconsider your actions. Although the intent is well and good, your path there will be lonely.

your path there will be lonely.



If it was alone and people truly didnt like me, then I doubt I would have someone to travel with every weekend and have places to stay almost everywhere I go.

That doesn't sound like someone who is lonely.

Ok robert....If you must continue, no one can stop you...You will reap what you sew...good luck.

This is just in general to the people that our upset that someone called on someone else doing something that wasn't within conformance to the given rules.

Thats like saying that no one should ever call a rule infraction because it will make them a "rat" and looked down upon by their peers...

Why can't people just be responsible for their actions? If they did something wrong and it was against rules at that point in time just deal with the ramifications

Players are not going to start calling infractions on themselves if they can get away with it and they already don't call infractions on other players because they don't want to be "that guy" and that doesnt hold well for the integrity of the game of golf... Sad...

I always call infractions that involve the game of golf...What people do that will not affect the outcome of the game, does not concern me...I am at the event to prove to myself and others that i am a top discgolfer, not to enforce the rules...

I kind of look at it like drinking in college. Do you think the non-drinkers went around calling the campus police or the cops every time they witnessed or suspected another underage student of drinking? Is it their responsibility? I think that if it's blatantly in your face, yeah, there might be reason to address the issue. Running to the authorities may not be the best way to do it every time. If you were truly on a CRUSADE to reduce the amount of players drink and smoking and playing, you'd probably just want to call the police as soon as you get to the park. When all the courses are pulled because you are creating an awareness of an activity that happens all over the place, including the parks _because that's where people get together_ you will have won your crusade.

I think there are better ways to make a difference. Merely stating that you would not like to see anyone doing any of the things you have a disdain for will create a lot more good will than your current course. Win the hearts and minds. Most people will curb nasty habits if you are straightforward about it beforehand. Except for those drinking beer... it might get flat or cold! :)

and this is Sjur...you should have figured that out....



This account (friZZaks) is licensed to B�rd Soleng #19410. Commissioner Theo Pozzy has declared that PDGA DISCussion user accounts are individual accounts intended for the exclusive use of each PDGA member, and alllowing someone else to use your account could be grounds for disciplinary action. You were previously warned about this, Sjur - why do you insist on using this account? Why are you not using the free DISCussion account that has been already provided for you?

Thats the funniest thing i have read in a while....LOL...Thanks for the smile...And BTW, i was never warned for anything before...Actually, earlier on this thread you warned me for something i didnt do...that was funny as well....How do you know this isnt bard....I mean, hes sitting right next to me. We are all writing this together. and now laughing...Classic....Now please delete this post.

yikes, its getting serious in here. how about we just http://securecheckout.creative-empire.com/images/juicinge/reset.jpg

Whether or not I have a problem with weed (which I personally feel should be legal) has nothing to do with my compaign to get disc golf clean during tournament play. It has to do with the preception that the general public has of weed and realizing that our sport must rid ourselves of that perception for the game to be considered a recoginizable sport. Everytime I hear someone say disc golf - oh thats game where you go in the woods and get high and drink, I get sick to my stomach. If thats the image that we want, then ur durn right I want to get out of disc golf.



If this is what your campaign is about, you are unfortunately misguided. The amount of smoking & drinking in organized rounds is generously 0.1% as big (1000 times as small) as smoking & drinking during casual play.

If I see it during casual play, I do inform the golfer of the law and state I will call the police.

Spotter: Oh, you're no fun anymore.

GROW UP. I'm sick of everyone of you guys and the less I see you at PDGA sanctioned events is better. You guys constantly cause problems and have respect for the game, the rules, or anything else.



Robert,
Now, ^^^ that is a loving christian attitude. Good job.
Go read Matthew 7:1.
There is only one judge, and you are NOT he.

You need to find bigger fish to fry.
:confused:

GROW UP. I'm sick of everyone of you guys and the less I see you at PDGA sanctioned events is better. You guys constantly cause problems and have respect for the game, the rules, or anything else.



Robert,
Now, ^^^ that is a loving christian attitude. Good job.
Go read Matthew 7:1.
There is only one judge, and you are NOT he.

You need to find bigger fish to fry.
:confused:

plus letting people make there own choices, and doing what they want to do shouldn't affect the way you see or feel about the game plus calling the cops will just get you punched in the head or never seen again if you on a thick woody course

Look. It is this simple.

1) If it is a public park don't drink, smoke weed, or do any illegal activities. You never know who is watching you. The person throwing on the next hole could be an undercover cop. There have been undercover cops up here at High Point's course and they have given out tickets for alcohol and have arrested people for pot.

It is never ok to smoke pot during a sanctioned, non-sanction, whatever tourny or casual play. IT IS AGAINST THE LAW. IS IT THAT HARD TO GET IT THROUGH YOUR HEAD? JUST DON'T DO IT! WHAT YOU DO IN YOUR FREE TIME IN YOUR HOME IS YOUR BUSINESS, BUT DON'T BRING IT OUT WHERE OTHER PEOPLE HAVE TO DEAL WITH IT.

One more thing, TT, some of the things you do and say are funny, but the majority is just plain childish and immature. Yeah I will come up and say hello and make small talk but there are things your clique says and does on here that I, along with many other people, just roll our eyes at it. There are a lot of people that feel the same way, but those people will not speak up.

I play PDGAs to have fun, not to get a contact high. If I wanted one of those, the only thing I have to do is go teach my third period class.

I hope to see everyone at Mooky's Cup.

If I see it during casual play, I do inform the golfer of the law and state I will call the police.


That is wack!

If someone attacked your family member would you call the police? If someone broke into you house, would you call the police?

Yes I know the answer that is coming "well your example is people that hurting people, while someone drinking or smoking is not hurting anyone."

I will counteract that when the parks department wants to get rid of courses b/c of alcohol and drug use from the disc golf community, that it seems like that this is def. hurting you!

Much love ya for ya scott.

I think there are better ways to make a difference. Merely stating that you would not like to see anyone doing any of the things you have a disdain for will create a lot more good will than your current course.



Actually, tougher than it seems, Matt. I *abhor* drug use. *IF* someone asks me if it's okay to smoke DURING A TOURNAMENT ROUND, that's very rare. I alwyas say I do NOT like it. How often does that stop them from doing it? Maybe 50% of the time (the other 50% will be kind enough to at least hide away from me to do it)

And guess what, I play disc golf for the FUN, both of the sport and of the camaradere. And I don't like stroking/DQing someone, as it will ruin that camaradere, regardless of whether or not I'm "right". There needs to be more policing, and me (a regular dude) stating my preferences ain't gonna cut the mustard.

I dont care what you say. That is still wack.

Do you also write down the license plate numbers of all the speeders when you drive and call the cops and turn them in?

Do you also write down the license plate numbers of all the speeders when you drive and call the cops and turn them in?


If you did, that would ba WACK!

difference of opinions man, that's all it is.

I don't play disc golf to make friends. I play b/c the sport saved my life and I enjoy going out in a park and throwing discs and watching them fly. Plus I love that feeling of playing hot. The confidence, the rhythm, its just awesome.

I will do what I feel is necesary so that if someone else needs the sport for the same reasons I once did, in a life or death situation, they will have the opportunity.

My opinion is that calling the cops is wack.

MTL,

Do you also write down the license plate numbers of all the speeders when you drive and call the cops and turn them in?

Look. It is this simple.

1) If it is a public park don't drink, smoke weed, or do any illegal activities. You never know who is watching you. The person throwing on the next hole could be an undercover cop. There have been undercover cops up here at High Point's course and they have given out tickets for alcohol and have arrested people for pot.




Ju mean HOT Point!
Believe me, I KNOW this, Son!

One time, as we were nearing their tree blind (near the green of the swamp hole), I started cussing them out loudly. Next thing we see, this little dude in uniform with BINOCULARS is scampering down the tree to his car. Must have had to go fine someone for improper lawn cuTTing.

One more thing, TT, some of the things you do and say are funny, but the majority is just plain childish and immature. Yeah I will come up and say hello and make small talk but there are things your clique says and does on here that I, along with many other people, just roll our eyes at it.




Not every joke is hits everytime Plank...

I am mature from Monday to Friday or anytime I need to be...but why should I not let myself have fun on the weekends with my friends...and I don't mean by breaking any disc golf rules. I enjoy having fun...don't you? I have respect for tournaments and for disc golf in general and agree that we need to remove the stereotypes that this game has and has had for the majority of it's existence. But calling cops or making a HUGE deal about it ALL THE TIME does nothing but bring more NEGATIVE attention to the game than it does good...fix internal problems internally.

Do you also write down the license plate numbers of all the speeders when you drive and call the cops and turn them in?



I have had this happen to me however despite how upset I was I could see their point of view and respect their decision to call the cops on me. Despite the fact that it screwed some things up for me at the time with my license... I was guilty of the infraction that I was eventually charged with so I fought the system as much as I could (foolish not to fight the system to reduce fines/points) and took whatever hand I was dealt.

You guys need to lay off MTL just because his views are different than yours... Your way is not the only way agree or disagree respect each other. It's like watching a bunch of children at each others neck for telling on someone. Sure let's signal someone out because he goes against the grain, seems to always the popular choice.

What does it show when a bunch of people come in and attack one individual for his actions? Not much...

Do you also write down the license plate numbers of all the speeders when you drive and call the cops and turn them in?


If you did, that would ba WACK!

LOL, Big Sknappa is funny.

MTL,

Do you also write down the license plate numbers of all the speeders when you drive and call the cops and turn them in?



He could, cause I can aTTest that he definitely does not speed.

One more thing, TT, some of the things you do and say are funny, but the majority is just plain childish and immature. Yeah I will come up and say hello and make small talk but there are things your clique says and does on here that I, along with many other people, just roll our eyes at it.




Not every joke is hits everytime Plank...

I am mature from Monday to Friday or anytime I need to be...but why should I not let myself have fun on the weekends with my friends...and I don't mean by breaking any disc golf rules. I enjoy having fun...don't you? I have respect for tournaments and for disc golf in general and agree that we need to remove the stereotypes that this game has and has had for the majority of it's existence. But calling cops or making a HUGE deal about it ALL THE TIME does nothing but bring more NEGATIVE attention to the game than it does good...fix internal problems internally.



Hard to fix something that everyone gets offended about when people mention it needs to be fixed...

I know people that think the game needs to be cleaned up but on the weekends at the course they are out getting stoned and hammered... Come on, your not there to play disc golf your out there to have a good time and disc golf is the excuse, thats a great image! :confused:

But then again ball golf is full of drunks on the course but you don't see them doing illegal drugs...

Snowboarding was mentioned and they embrace their culture as we should ours as well but you probably don't see any illegal drug use all the time there...

One more thing, TT, some of the things you do and say are funny, but the majority is just plain childish and immature. Yeah I will come up and say hello and make small talk but there are things your clique says and does on here that I, along with many other people, just roll our eyes at it.




Not every joke is hits everytime Plank...

I am mature from Monday to Friday or anytime I need to be...but why should I not let myself have fun on the weekends with my friends...and I don't mean by breaking any disc golf rules. I enjoy having fun...don't you? I have respect for tournaments and for disc golf in general and agree that we need to remove the stereotypes that this game has and has had for the majority of it's existence. But calling cops or making a HUGE deal about it ALL THE TIME does nothing but bring more NEGATIVE attention to the game than it does good...fix internal problems internally.

2nd, I gots to go to Wilmywood on Friday to hang with my boy cuTT, cause he wont be in aTTendance at the J'ville tourney this weekend. Wish all my TTrim boys would Bite the bullet and come play this weekend. But if ya don't I understand.

Come on, your not there to play disc golf your out there to have a good time and disc golf is the excuse, thats a great image!



I guess that is why I sacrificed 5 months of my year last year touring the east coast playing disc golf.
And yes, I am there to have a good time...when did enjoying yourself become a rules violation, or grounds for a bad image? Do you not enjoy yourself when you play disc golf?
There are a lot of other things that anyone could be doing besides playing disc golf that would be a lot cheaper and less taxing on the work schedule, family-time, etc...But I have a passion for playing disc golf, and have fun doing so...

Come on, your not there to play disc golf your out there to have a good time and disc golf is the excuse, thats a great image!



I guess that is why I sacrificed 5 months of my year last year touring the east coast playing disc golf.
And yes, I am there to have a good time...when did enjoying yourself become a rules violation, or grounds for a bad image? Do you not enjoy yourself when you play disc golf?
There are a lot of other things that anyone could be doing besides playing disc golf that would be a lot cheaper and less taxing on the work schedule, family-time, etc...But I have a passion for playing disc golf, and have fun doing so...



I am not talking about sanctioned tournaments, I am not referring to everyone maybe not even you... People take things so personal on these message boards seriously. I make maybe too many generalizations :)

So out of those 5 months you were getting hammered and stoned during sanctioned play? Yeah... I believe that is what kind of preceded the part that you decided to quote...

If you "sacrificed" 5 months of your year to play disc golf you obviously were not having fun... haha Thanks for quoting just part of my post!

To the people out on the course that have to go out with a 24pk of beer and a bunch of weed and be completely inconsiderate of the park rules, nature and the other golfers on the course! I really try to avoid courses or even times of the day where I am going to run into this kind of activity because it is not for me and I do have a choice not to be around it.


But anyhow, I chose not to post anymore or get drawn into this any further. I have said what I had wanted to say and there is no point in getting into an argument and trying to force opinions down each others throats :)

WACK!!!!!!!!!!

what about illegal prescriptions like if I give someone a vicodine cause they might be in pain or you going to call the law for that???? :confused:


cant we all just get along. another thread that beats the same dead horse about 4 times a year. I say do what you can do to better the sport but dont go looking for things so you can feel all high and mighty

Come on, your not there to play disc golf your out there to have a good time and disc golf is the excuse, thats a great image!



I guess that is why I sacrificed 5 months of my year last year touring the east coast playing disc golf.
And yes, I am there to have a good time...when did enjoying yourself become a rules violation, or grounds for a bad image? Do you not enjoy yourself when you play disc golf?
There are a lot of other things that anyone could be doing besides playing disc golf that would be a lot cheaper and less taxing on the work schedule, family-time, etc...But I have a passion for playing disc golf, and have fun doing so...



I am not talking about sanctioned tournaments, I am not referring to everyone maybe not even you... People take things so personal on these message boards seriously. I make maybe too many generalizations :)

So out of those 5 months you were getting hammered and stoned during sanctioned play? Yeah... I believe that is what kind of preceded the part that you decided to quote...

If you "sacrificed" 5 months of your year to play disc golf you obviously were not having fun... haha Thanks for quoting just part of my post!

To the people out on the course that have to go out with a 24pk of beer and a bunch of weed and be completely inconsiderate of the park rules, nature and the other golfers on the course! I really try to avoid courses or even times of the day where I am going to run into this kind of activity because it is not for me and I do have a choice not to be around it.


But anyhow, I chose not to post anymore or get drawn into this any further. I have said what I had wanted to say and there is no point in getting into an argument and trying to force opinions down each others throats :)




I will quote your whole post so that it can't be misinterpreted...no, I do not do any drugs or drink any alcohol during sanctioned events...but please draw more negative conclusions, and bring extra negative attention to this discussion.

If you bring a 24 pack of beer out onto the course, you aren't competing against me, you are competing against the effects of alcohol.

Are these RADL monthlies or weeklies? I would think that monthlies would be a little more serious than the weeklies.

At monthlies, not that it's really any different, but it's a step closer to sanctioned play and would be a good place to start emphasizing the rules, but still, in a more casual and friendly reminder sort of way.

A few quotes by you Steve proving your hypocrisy

"Enforce the rules that we already have in place" found out: http://www.pdga.com/msgboard/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=546285&page=7&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=9&vc=1

So is smoking weed a rule we have in place? Yes. Sounds like you want me to call it. Calling courtesy violations is in place too. Sounds like you want me to call it.

Also, I am 100% sure you at one time admitted to using drugs in a Sanctioned event on the message board. Be glad I can't find it. But it's here.

I see no posts with my name even attached to them in that link...
Again...good try.

And of course I want you to call any rules violation that occur on the course. I have never said that I didn't want you to do that. And you will never have to worry about calling it on me, because I don't do it, nor have I done it in years. I will reiterate what Papa Knapp has already said though...calling or even threatening to call the cops is WACK!!!

I'm done with you BOB...go get the help you need bro.

[QUOTE]
[QUOTE]


But then again ball golf is full of drunks on the course but you don't see them doing illegal drugs...

....Yeah, I call Bull#$*&$! on that one....

Snowboarding was mentioned and they embrace their culture as we should ours as well but you probably don't see any illegal drug use all the time there...

....And there as well.

this thread is the deadest of dead horses

But then again ball golf is full of drunks on the course but you don't see them doing illegal drugs...


That is absolutely and completely false. Do you have any facts to back this up or is this an assumption of yours? I have played in city championships, high school state championships, as well as many other state-affiliated tournaments and have seen use going on at every single one of them not to mention casual rounds.


Snowboarding was mentioned and they embrace their culture as we should ours as well but you probably don't see any illegal drug use all the time there...


Your kidding right? Is this another assumption? You dont think snowboarders smoke in COLORADO? LOL

Who gives a rats arse what someone else does during a non-sanc event. If it bothers you then speak with them after the round. If it does'nt great. The only person you can control is yourself, so do that. I have no place in my world for a snitch and god forbid he show his face after the round in our group. Have been to many a sanc event either playing or watching and can tell you that smoking tree is every where at every event (including during the round) but you have to look real close to catch them due to special equipment being used. just think about how much more it is at weekly mini's. Again, who really gives a rats arse, I know I don't and our club is still growing strong. Hope you guys have a great day and better golf outings.

"god forbid he show his face after the round in our group"

wow! sounds like a threat there to anyone willing to call the rules.

<font color="blue">[Edited.]</font>

how much you wanna bet this guy's a stoner?

I will take that bet. :p

How much money you got Dr. EVIL??

[QUOTE]
[QUOTE]


But then again ball golf is full of drunks on the course but you don't see them doing illegal drugs...

....Yeah, I call Bull#$*&$! on that one....

Snowboarding was mentioned and they embrace their culture as we should ours as well but you probably don't see any illegal drug use all the time there...

....And there as well.








PM Sent...

But then again ball golf is full of drunks on the course but you don't see them doing illegal drugs...


That is absolutely and completely false. Do you have any facts to back this up or is this an assumption of yours? I have played in city championships, high school state championships, as well as many other state-affiliated tournaments and have seen use going on at every single one of them not to mention casual rounds.


Snowboarding was mentioned and they embrace their culture as we should ours as well but you probably don't see any illegal drug use all the time there...


Your kidding right? Is this another assumption? You dont think snowboarders smoke in COLORADO? LOL



PM sent...

this is out of my personal observations over maybe a 10 year period. I am not saying that these people do not do drugs :)

if you aren't and you want disc golf to grow, then why would you imply that someone would be mistreated in ny way for calling a rule in your group.

What if you saw someone eating a odd looking cookie?

It all boils down to a respect thing. If the TD has requested that it not be done during a non-sanctioned event, then it should be reported to the TD. He has expressed a desire to know by saying that it is not allowed.

If the TD says nothing about it at an unsanctioned event, then it he has expressed a desire not to know. I'll respect the TD's wishes. As far as open use in public goes, all I ask is that you keep it away from me because I don't want to be guilty by association, and try to keep it out of sight from other park patrons that may not like it.

I will not be calling the cops on discreet users that are not causing any other problems.

Sanctioned events are a different story.

If the TD says it is ok to drink at a non-sanctioned tourny, then ok.

But smoking weed is illegal at all times(unless you have a medical prescription). It doesn't matter where you are.

And Mojo....I am glad you have fun. That is great. I hope to see you at Mooky's on St. Patty's Day. All of TT can play some mean disc golf, and I don't think anyone is denying that.

Hope to see you too Plank...along with 2nd run, 3rd run, and 4th run...you guys put out a new run recently??

Nah...

Don't you think 1 version of me is enough?

My favorite run of Valks were the 5th run, so...

One of the local parks departments told RADL (at the time the VP of RADL) in no uncertain terms that if we (RADL) didn't do something about the rampant drinking in the parking lot after the rounds (both sanctioned and unsanctioned events) that they would pull the course. That was followed by additional parks departments telling us that if we didn't do something about drinking in the park that they would be happy to pull additional courses in the area. RADL discussed (at a RADL meeting where all RADL members are welcome) and voted on taking a zero tolerance stance on this issue at all RADL events (both sanctioned and unsanctioned events).

Unlike Charlotte we do not have that many courses in the Raleigh area that we can afford to lose one or more of them.

Note: for those of you not from NC, drinking is illegal in all public parks in NC without a permit and permits are nearly impossible to get and are extremely expensive. There are still counties, citys and towns in NC that are "dry". We are after all in the middle of the most conservative section of the southern bible belt.

Kirk

Thanks for the post, Captain. I had the feeling that this might have been what was going on behind the scenes (I posted that earlier).

MTL, if you would have just posted what Kirk said and made a generic statement that RADL is taking action on your club's decision (in an area that you are personally totally in favor of), you would have saved yourself a lot of personal grief.

I'm not sure why you made your "I learned something this weekend" post (#656210)all about you :confused: .....since, although you were involved, it really has nothing to do with you, but everything to do with a club cooperatively working with "the authorities" on the illegal activities of drinking.

Like I've posted, if it is important to the Park Department, it has got to be important to the club (this absolutley goes for Charlotte too)!

Players Meeting. (http://www.break.com/index/amazing_dartmouth_tour_group_prank.html)

if you aren't and you want disc golf to grow, then why would you imply that someone would be mistreated in ny way for calling a rule in your group.


I think he was referring to someone being a "RAT" during a casual round /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

It seems he likes the attention. (http://www.pdga.com/msgboard/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=Players&Number=600517&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1) :p

One of the local parks departments told RADL (at the time the VP of RADL) in no uncertain terms that if we (RADL) didn't do something about the rampant drinking in the parking lot after the rounds (both sanctioned and unsanctioned events) that they would pull the course. That was followed by additional parks departments telling us that if we didn't do something about drinking in the park that they would be happy to pull additional courses in the area. RADL discussed (at a RADL meeting where all RADL members are welcome) and voted on taking a zero tolerance stance on this issue at all RADL events (both sanctioned and unsanctioned events).

Unlike Charlotte we do not have that many courses in the Raleigh area that we can afford to lose one or more of them.

Note: for those of you not from NC, drinking is illegal in all public parks in NC without a permit and permits are nearly impossible to get and are extremely expensive. There are still counties, citys and towns in NC that are "dry". We are after all in the middle of the most conservative section of the southern bible belt.

Kirk




Thanks for the post, Captain. I had the feeling that this might have been what was going on behind the scenes (I posted that earlier).

MTL, if you would have just posted what Kirk said and made a generic statement that RADL is taking action on your club's decision (in an area that you are personally totally in favor of), you would have saved yourself a lot of personal grief.



I get the impression that RADL members are well aware of this issue with the Parks department and there has been little progress. I also get the impression that having seen little improvement, Robert has made the decision that someone has to begin enforcing the issue before it's too late.

Robert is hardly the Rosa Parks or Jackie Robinson of this issue. A few years ago, a well-known Pro Masters disc golfer and private course owner in the Pacific Northwest starting turning in people for drug use during PDGA events and there was a similar backlash.

The Rules are in place for a reason. PDGA and RADL rules are in place to save dics golf courses from getting yanked and to further the sport and get us to the next level. What a shame it is that people can't follow the rules and refrain from drug and alcohol use during PDGA tournaments, RADL events, and in public parks where it is forbidden. How ridiculous that you take your aggressions out on those who work to uphold the rules. It's absolutely intolerable that Robert Leonard should have to endure this grief for reporting those who egregiously and flauntingly break the rules, jeopardize the existence of disc golf courses everywhere, and keep holding our sport back.

Robert is hardly the Rosa Parks or Jackie Robinson of this issue.

wow...

I get the impression that RADL members are well aware of this issue with the Parks department and there has been little progress. I also get the impression that having seen little improvement, Robert has made the decision that someone has to begin enforcing the issue before it's too late.

Robert is hardly the Rosa Parks or Jackie Robinson of this issue. A few years ago, a well-known Pro Masters disc golfer and private course owner in the Pacific Northwest starting turning in people for drug use during PDGA events and there was a similar backlash.

The Rules are in place for a reason. PDGA and RADL rules are in place to save dics golf courses from getting yanked and to further the sport and get us to the next level. What a shame it is that people can't follow the rules and refrain from drug and alcohol use during PDGA tournaments, RADL events, and in public parks where it is forbidden. How ridiculous that you take your aggressions out on those who work to uphold the rules. It's absolutely intolerable that Robert Leonard should have to endure this grief for reporting those who egregiously and flauntingly break the rules, jeopardize the existence of disc golf courses everywhere, and keep holding our sport back.



Jeff...
No one is disputing whether or not rules that are set in place should be followed. In fact, just to clarify...this is the thread that MTL thought proved my hypocrisy about rule following... when in fact... (http://www.pdga.com/msgboard/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=546285&page=7&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=3&vc=1)
It certainly does prove something. (http://www.pdga.com/msgboard/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=546285&page=7&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=4&vc=1)

I would argue that point. After it was known that there was a club rule against drinking and illegal activities at the non-xanctioned event, there were several comments referring to what a "RAT" could expect in return for reporting such activity.

It seems that there are quite a few that think rules are just to impress the people that don't show up to see what is really going on. I've noticed that parks people and police have a habit of watching closely when they think they are being blown off.

You are correct..."No one" was too broad..."I am not disputing..." should've been used.

there were several comments referring to what a "RAT" could expect in return for reporting such activity.



Indeed. I am disgusted by the physical threats (some obvious, some veiled) observed in this thread.


<font color="blue">frogEstyle (Matthew Geers #31158)</font> posted the following:

calling the cops will just get you punched in the head or never seen again if you on a thick woody course



<font color="blue">bigarm (Keith May #10728)</font> posted the following:

I have no place in my world for a snitch and god forbid he show his face after the round in our group.

there were several comments referring to what a "RAT" could expect in return for reporting such activity.



Indeed. I am disgusted by the physical threats (some obvious, some veiled) observed in this thread.


<font color="blue">frogEstyle (Matthew Geers #31158)</font> posted the following:

calling the cops will just get you punched in the head or never seen again if you on a thick woody course



<font color="blue">bigarm (Keith May #10728)</font> posted the following:

I have no place in my world for a snitch and god forbid he show his face after the round in our group.





Those are midwest boyz..TX and IA...They handle their business their way. We have a loving family in NC...we just have some misunderstood brothers and children in our family right now...we'll try to bring them back to the fold.

we just have some misunderstood brothers and children in our family right now



Holy crap!

I agree!!

Indeed. I am disgusted by the physical threats (some obvious, some veiled) observed in this thread.


frogEstyle (Matthew Geers #31158) posted the following:

Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

calling the cops will just get you punched in the head or never seen again if you on a thick woody course


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



bigarm (Keith May #10728) posted the following:

Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I have no place in my world for a snitch and god forbid he show his face after the round in our group.



hey opinions are like azzholes everyone has one. in texas we usually hang rats.. :D:p







i am kidding so get your panties out of a wad.. you guys turn dirt mounds in mountains on this BORED!!!!

lol :D

What a shame it is that people can't follow the rules and refrain from drug and alcohol use during PDGA tournaments, RADL events, and in public parks where it is forbidden. How ridiculous that you take your aggressions out on those who work to uphold the rules. It's absolutely intolerable that Robert Leonard should have to endure this grief for reporting those who egregiously and flauntingly break the rules, jeopardize the existence of disc golf courses everywhere, and keep holding our sport back.



You must have a reading comprehension issue, Jeff. Exactly what you quoted is exactly what my message was about. If MTL did not incessantly make every issue about himself (not to mention the threads he starts about himself), he would be spared the grief he has gotten. The problem here is not the rules.

I have no, zero, zilch, nada aggressions towards Robert or the laws and rules. Not sure where you get that from. I have been constructive in all my posts here. In fact my posts have been supportive of helping Robert aim his efforts correctly in his efforts to accomplish his goals (which I share, BTW).

The reason I used the phrase "I learned something" was b/c I did.

I learned that local clubs need to start enforcing PDGA rules in thier events so that PDGA play will improve. I feel that if behaivor that I witnesses this past weekend is accepted in non PDGA events, that newer players will feel that is accepted in PDGA play. Whether or not anyone agrees with me is fine, this is why I stated that I learned something - to make it clear that I was using an example as a way to back my personal opinion.

If someone took it as me trying to sound better than everyone or what not, I'm sorry, for that was not the objective at all.

I think a lot of my posts are misinterpreted as a personal motive or accomplishing some sort of personal agendaI have b/c I often discuss what I have learned from a personal experiece in now 14 years of disc golf and 11 of those competitive.

It really is no more than my training as a writer and journalism experience coming out and not just posting facts, but having to tell a story.

Veiled threats aside, if you think you're man enough to retaliate after I turn you in please feel free. You are likely to bite off more than you can chew.

As I have told people in the past "Win, lose or draw you're going to the hospital!!!"

Kirk

Veiled threats aside, if you think you're man enough to retaliate after I turn you in please feel free. You are likely to bite off more than you can chew.

As I have told people in the past "Win, lose or draw you're going to the hospital!!!"

Kirk

i think we have achieved a new standard for disgusting-ness.

I am only pointing out that if people don't like a "rat" and they are threatening to retaliate it is likely that they won't like the result.

The bottom line here is either follow the rules or don't play but don't threaten the "rat".

Kirk

I learned that local clubs need to start enforcing PDGA rules in thier events so that PDGA play will improve. I feel that if behaivor that I witnesses this past weekend is accepted in non PDGA events, that newer players will feel that is accepted in PDGA play. Whether or not anyone agrees with me is fine...


I agree with you 100%.

By and large, I agree with MTL on what he is trying to do, i.e. "clean up" the sport. However, having been to tournaments where MTL has been playing, I have witnessed first-hand the "me, me, me" thing that everyone is citing. It has now turned into a twisted version of The Boy Who Cried Wolf. MTL, you have made your bed with your past actions and shooting off at the mouth and now you have to lie in it. That said, I wish you the best in this pursuit, because I do believe the sport has major potential as a commercial venture, but it will never happen while we are viewed as "A bunch of stoners throwing Frisbees in the woods".

im not asking for anyone to like me or for anyone to agree with my methods.

All I'm saying is that I know that at least 80% of the people on here agree with my thoughts and feelings and that it is being ruined by a small group of people that do not care for me and and another group who reads something that I post and immediatly has an opinion of it before they even read the post simply b/c it is me who is posting it.

I have no, zero, zilch, nada aggressions towards Robert or the laws and rules. Not sure where you get that from. I have been constructive in all my posts here. In fact my posts have been supportive of helping Robert aim his efforts correctly in his efforts to accomplish his goals (which I share, BTW).



Dave Marchant, you specifically have not made any aggressions toward Robert Leonard, but imo there have been an overwhelming number of obvious such aggressions from other message board users.

[James Cagney on]

"MTL, you dirty rat! I'm gonna get you."

[James Cagney off]

:D

I've dealt with enough tawdry behavior, in parks, on the road, in bathrooms etc. to have an appreciation for MTL's stance on this.

I've dealt with enough tawdry behavior... in bathrooms...

hmmm... is this something that might be better kept to oneself? :cool:

Indeed. I am disgusted by the physical threats (some obvious, some veiled) observed in this thread.



Me, too, despite the many DISCussion denizens' who seem to think that the online disinhibition effect (http://www.nytimes.com/2007/02/20/health/psychology/20essa.html?em&amp;ex=1172206800&amp;en=169b24bf57b052b1&amp;e i=5087%0A) is a political movement and somehow acceptable . . . I don't see why they should be tolerated in this private club's (sanctioned) resource. They would be a violation of the rules if they occurred during sanctioned play and I believe that this board ought to aim for the same level of discourse. What we often see on here, posting-wise, pollutes DISCussion worse than illegal drugs and alcohol use does sanctioned play. [But not quite as bad as otherwise legal, underage death-weed smoking is polluting the lungs of our younger players. Thanks for the reminder, Rhett.]

Don't forget about the cigarettes and minors, Terry! :)

I don't have a whole lot to add on this subject except this. First off let me say I have never reported anybody for anything on a disc golf course. Even though maybe I should it just goes against things from my past that are very hard to break. But if MTL(or anyone for that matter) is coming on here and telling you that he will report you for breaking the rules on drugs and alcohol then you should be thanking him for the warning. That is not ratting, ratting is acting like you are someones friend, saying they won't tell anyone, and then going and telling on them. That is the people that most people don't like, the ones that say they are OK with something then go and tell. I have never had a problem with people as long as I know where I stand with them, and obviously MTL is letting you know where he stands.

Letting people know where you stand must work pretty good because I haven't seen it at a sanctioned event in several years now.

That's pretty much where I'm at. I state I don't do it, and don't want to see it. I don't want to be a detective. I also don't seek out the perpetrators if I think they are off doing stuff. I'll say something if they are blatant idiots. I am not going to play Cluseau though. I'm here to play, not to spend my mental cycles worrying about what others are doing. That's probably going to set me off my game. I'm sure that's more than most players want to worry about during a tournament. When I am in tournament mode I am either 100% focus or about 80% excuses for sucking. If I'm in mode 2, maybe I'd say something...

While we are talking about facts....fact is most people outside the sport who have the perception about DG'ers being stoners have not witnessed it first hand on the courses - especially during organized play. Fact is, lots of DG'ers portray a stoner image openly and in public. Exhibit A of someone who 90%+ of the general public would tag as a stoner:

http://www.morleyfield.com/pics/pic0106.jpg

This image does absolutely nothing to reverse the perception....It does the opposite. If we are really interested in cleaning up our image, I suggest we focus proportionally harder on the things that are proportionally more visible in the public eye and on our websites.

Yeah, come on Rhett, at least get a peackock feather in your cap and a fur trimmed robe.

Maybe something a little more like this...



http://www.pimpcostumes.com/images/products/PimpHatBigDaddyRedSm.jpg

matt, are you letting hawkgammon use your account? :cool:

http://www.morleyfield.com/pics/pic0106.jpg





Happy Birthday Rhett. That's a mighty big towel you've got there Cowboy. Why do I suspect that the second round ends with you shirtless with that around your waist? Does Gallagher know you're doing his act?

Worse yet, that's a Stroh's beer hat band on that hat.....and I don't drink.

The sad truth is that I have been seriously considering cutting my hair because I don't smoke pot and I'm not in a band. I just like to have my hair long. :(

Exhibit A of someone who 90%+ of the general public would tag as a stoner:

http://www.morleyfield.com/pics/pic0106.jpg



I don't know about that analysis. I think that looks like a picture of a finely tuned athlete who is 100% "in the zone".

Don't forget about the cigarettes

yes lets clean up everything

I don't know about that analysis. I think that looks like a picture of a finely tuned athlete who is 100% "in the zone".



:cool: I'm glad my post and comments on Rhett's appearance got the response I wanted! :)

While I am serious about what I am implying as far as what is needed if we really want to clean up disc golf so that we shed our current image in the public eye, I think we need to be more serious in continuing and protecting the culture of DG: friendship, fun, inclusivity, laid-back-ness, variety, accessibility, etc....

Agreed.

You speak so well Dave.

Thanks....just trying to gain back some respect for the CDGC that MTL says I lost for our club. :o :D

HOw can someone not respect the Queen City club after everything you guys do for the city and area. (oh wait it's MTL) Nice Ice Bowl total again. You guys sometimes have bigger turnouts for club events then the PDGA event that same weekend.

Charlotte's club is a model for successfull clubs all over the country with thier amazing amount of money raised for charities year in and year out, amount of courses, amount of labor put in on courses, etc.

My comments were off based and I read Dave's post wrong. Now that I have a little more information, I do understand that my comments were not right.

Sorry to the CDGC and Dave! You guys rock!

While we are talking about facts....fact is most people outside the sport who have the perception about DG'ers being stoners have not witnessed it first hand on the courses - especially during organized play. Fact is, lots of DG'ers portray a stoner image openly and in public. Exhibit A of someone who 90%+ of the general public would tag as a stoner:

http://www.morleyfield.com/pics/pic0106.jpg

This image does absolutely nothing to reverse the perception....It does the opposite. If we are really interested in cleaning up our image, I suggest we focus proportionally harder on the things that are proportionally more visible in the public eye and on our websites.



It just goes to show you how dumb people can be. Rhett is a good guy who contributes to our sport whereas George Bush who is clean cut and wears a tie was seriously into coke and an alcoholic... prior to being President that is...

Oh yeah, I agree, an athlete 100% in the zone, if we got paid for focus Rhett would be rich! On the other hand, I still prefer Scott's hair doo.