Post deleted by sandalman

The wording is a little severe, but the idea is essentially correct. Which line items do you percieve as having little or no value.

Those items would need to be re-evaluated or more information about their benefit to the sport made available.

Not to mention a box, if you see ALL of these as a value.

Interesting that a PDGA board member would create a poll like this that leaves no option for anyone (like me) to say that he believes all of the above are benefits to him.

checking "other" works for that, Terry. and drop the "BoD member" angle. this was suggested by others, i was acting on their requests because at least one had indicated he didnt want to post this poll because it is worded from the "negative" side and therefore some hyper-critical reader might construe it as an attack on the pdga or something.

[crickets chirping]

[crickets chirping]

whats that mean?

Well, to me "other" does not mean, "I see all of these items as a value." "Other" can be made to represent many things and if you want this to be of any use, you really need to set up a poll that gives all the options.

If someone for some reason, clicks on OTHER and adds in something in the comment section that they don't think is a value that you left off your list, then things start to get mixed up.

That is why "Other"does NOT mean "I think all of these are a value"

That is poor/convoluted logic there, Mr. Boom (unless you are an English teacher/purist and regularly rail against double negatives). Here is my response to "Other":

About 1/2 of the items have value to me as a private individual. The other half of them have value to me as a promoter of the sport, since I see that they have value to others.

There are 1-2 things in there that IMO have little value on their own (ie, "Prints a glossy promo brochure"), but the cost is extremely small (relatively), so I have no problem with providing this for the people/promoters that do see value in this.

In other words, I do not, not see the benefits benefiting me and the sport in general (hope you can handle the double negative :cool:).

Poll needs a "none of the above, all are worthwhile PDGA benefits/services" in order for some of us to be able to vote.



How in the heck did Pat forget to do that?

Other.

I think they are all valuable services. Just because I may not use all of them at this stage in my disc golf 'career', I can see any one of them being valuable to me at some point.


sleepy

Poll needs a "none of the above, all are worthwhile PDGA benefits/services" in order for some of us to be able to vote.



How in the heck did Pat forget to do that?



Get a room.

Other:
As I said in the other poll, I support all of the programs and do see some value to the sport in all of them. Especially the ones that produce items you can hand to potential sponsors or parks departments to help explain what disc golf is all about.

Poll needs a "none of the above, all are worthwhile PDGA benefits/services" in order for some of us to be able to vote.



How in the heck did Pat forget to do that?

i'm just not as infallible as you, Terry.

if you guys want picky, picky can be arranged.

Other:
As I said in the other poll, I support all of the programs and do see some value to the sport in all of them. Especially the ones that produce items you can hand to potential sponsors or parks departments to help explain what disc golf is all about.



Other: I support all the items on this list as being a postive benefit. One has to wonder what the 90% of all disc golfers who never come to this site might vote? It would be sad if they got the mistaken notion that some of these benefits could be negatively impacted by such a poll while they never had a thing to say about it.

Whether or not the PDGA could offer more services is a good question and one that should be asked. There are very postive ways to ask such questions and act on them. It's good to see that is being done. /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif




"Stop it with the negative vibes man."

Donald Sutherland

Poll needs a "none of the above, all are worthwhile PDGA benefits/services" in order for some of us to be able to vote.



How in the heck did Pat forget to do that?

i'm just not as infallible as you, Terry.

if you guys want picky, picky can be arranged.



I don't think Terry said you were fallible. In fact, he's obviously astounded that you forgot. I would say that implies that he has great faith in your abilities and is surprised that you left this important question out of the poll.

I'm guessing that's why you pulled it, so you can add that question back in.

once again you guess wrong about my motives. congratulations on keeping your perfect record intact.


btw, the list is mostly FEATURES, not BENEFITS. thats part of the problem with demonstrating value... you cant show the value by only talking features... value comes from benefits. ex: the Marshall's Program is a feature. what are the specific benefits? the 10 year bag tag is a feature... what is the benefit?

(i am not suggesting these are void of benefit... just using them to clarify the difference betwen features and benefits)

Isn't it:

"Always with the negative waves, Moriarty." ??

Pat, you seem to have some issues with Terry and I can't recall seeing any replies from you to him within the last six or so months that I wouldn't categorize as "sniping".

I just wanted to point that out to you. I don't care about the history, and I don't want to hear it. As an elected representative of this organization I just thought you might want to temper your responses to a former elected representative who put in a lot of time and effort doing what you now are putting in a lot of time and effort doing. You two are evidently more alike that you would seem to care to admit. :o

Isn't it:

"Always with the negative waves, Moriarty." ??



Could be, haven't seen it in years, may have to this weekend. Definitely a classic!

once again you guess wrong about my motives. congratulations on keeping your perfect record intact.


btw, the list is mostly FEATURES, not BENEFITS. thats part of the problem with demonstrating value... you cant show the value by only talking features... value comes from benefits. ex: the Marshall's Program is a feature. what are the specific benefits? the 10 year bag tag is a feature... what is the benefit?

(i am not suggesting these are void of benefit... just using them to clarify the difference betwen features and benefits)



Hold cow! Man that's a whole lot of awesome features we're getting... Here all this time I thought we were just getting benefits and just like that I got features instead. Keep up the good work!

Motives, I didn't think you had motives Pat, I simply thought you were acting in the best interests of giving our posters the most options and information possible. Was I wrong?

It seems the other way around. Terry is constantly sniping at Pat. I have no idea of the history before Pat came onto the BoD, but IMO it is very wise of Pat to rise above the level of interaction Terry often chooses to use with an elected official.

If the shoe fits, I'm sure Pat will take your admonition. The shoe certainly DOES fit Terry, so I'm hopeful (skeptically so), that Terry will give ear.

yes, it IS an impressive list of features... i completely agree in all seriousness. the fact that even with such as impressive list of features many Members ask about the value they are receiving is a rather strong indication that the benefits of those features needs to be better communicated. its cool we have a {insert feature here}... but what does that do for us, for TD's, for the sport.

ex:

Feature: blanket insurance policy available
Benefit: saves a TD the time needed for researching and negotiating required insurances; makes good insurance available at lower rates, thereby lowering the TD's costs and improving the financial return on an event.

now we know that the direct beneficiary of the insurance feature is the TD. there are all sorts of indirect beneficiaries, but dont be surprised of that group does not value this feature quite as highly as the direct beneficiary, the TD.

Isn't it:

"Always with the negative waves, Moriarty." ??



Could be, haven't seen it in years, may have to this weekend. Definitely a classic!



"What's with the negative waves." is one, I'm still looking for the other.

Isn't it:

"Always with the negative waves, Moriarty." ??



Have some fun These are mini quizes from the movie!

http://www.funtrivia.com/quizzes/movies/movies_h-k/kellys_heroes.html

It seems the other way around. Terry is constantly sniping at Pat. I have no idea of the history before Pat came onto the BoD, but IMO it is very wise of Pat to rise above the level of interaction Terry often chooses to use with an elected official.

If the shoe fits, I'm sure Pat will take your admonition. The shoe certainly DOES fit Terry, so I'm hopeful (skeptically so), that Terry will give ear.



I hear there are people who think America started World War II.

Try imdb.com. Search for Kelly's Heroes and then go to memorable quotes part way down on the left hand side.

The Insurance factor is HUGE!

The price for insurance on a one day tournament would not allow some smaller clubs to host a tournament. However, some might say that is a good thing in itself, but that is another conversation. ;)

The shoe certainly DOES fit Terry, so I'm hopeful (skeptically so), that Terry will give ear.

I just bought three new pair of Merrells, and they do fit. But how did you know?

Oh, and it's not about Pat as a person. We just served together on the ED search committee and he made good contributions to that process. I think he's a pretty good guy who does good things.

It's about what he writes and does here, on DISCussion. He's not just "any elected official," he's the PDGA board member who thought it was okay to bring his personal version of the details of board governance, which included negative comments about our executive director, into this forum (His opinion seems to have changed about that.); the one who creates a poll, as though it might be representative of the PDGA membership as a whole, to let the small group of DISCussion posters select which "features" (not "benefits," I guess) they like, but who just happens to neglect an "all of the above" option on the poll; the one who thinks that one of the nastiest, demeaning critics of the PDGA ought to get his renewal paid for by members' dues but that it is iffy to honor past board members with obelisks; and the one who . . . well, let's just wait for the next one, shall we?

Like a good Christian would say: "Hate the sin, love the sinner."

His poll was one I thought would be a good idea. I would have worded it a bit differently, but the idea was to get a list of the most misunderstood/under appreciated benefits of the PDGA so the value could be better conveyed. The poll of course could not be worded in such a biased manner, but that was the point I had in mind. He took it upon himself to create it, and I still think it had value.

There should be a page on this site that lists all of those programs, the intended goals, the triumphs or setbacks experienced in implementing them, and the relative cost(percentage of budget type).

It would be useful to have a contact link associated with each program so that members with information or suggestions have a method of communicating with the people responsible for the program.

There should be a page on this site that lists all of those programs, the intended goals, the triumphs or setbacks experienced in implementing them, and the relative cost(percentage of budget type).

It would be useful to have a contact link associated with each program so that members with information or suggestions have a method of communicating with the people responsible for the program.

the one who thinks that one of the nastiest, demeaning critics of the PDGA ought to get his renewal paid for by members' dues



So we should scratch you off the list of those contributing to my 2008 Birdie Club membership Hot Tub?