On one of the threads someone commented that they felt the moderators might be banning more posters these days. Several people replied that they are following a consistent set of rules and guides and acting consistently, and that is a definite improvement.

I find also that they are working behind the scenes to make the MB a better, more pleasant place. Thank you!

speaking of banning, where is the list the rules talk about...

"A list of the folks on suspension and probation can be found in the section at the bottom of the main page."

i cant find it... is no one probationed or suspended at the moment?

speaking of banning, where is the list the rules talk about...

"A list of the folks on suspension and probation can be found in the section at the bottom of the main page."

i cant find it... is no one probationed or suspended at the moment?



Communications Director Steve Dodge had planned to have one of the admins create a thread or subforum where this information would be listed. With the PDGA Office swamped right now with sending out thousands of Pro Worlds and Am Worlds invites, it's possible that this has taken a back seat for now.

Mike Kernan and Morgan Wright are the only ones suspended, although UnderParMikey comes off suspension tomorrow March 14th. There are probably about a dozen or so on probation.

Good point, Lyle. I don't care a whole lot for how narrow the policies they're asking to apply have become, but they are doing a decent job at it . . . and more. Thanks from "Hot Tub," too.

BTW, my wife says that Hawk got both parts of that right: I am "tubby" and I'm also "hot." :D

I don't care a whole lot for how narrow the policies they're asking to apply have become



The list is actually expanding, Terry. We started out with only 4 rules, and will soon be adding a 7th rule.

PDGA Discussion Board Rules - The following will not be allowed: <ul type="square"> 1. Profanity
2. Personal attacks
3. Materials or links to materials which are not suitable for a minor
4. Physical threats against other members (obvious or veiled) will not be tolerated.
5. Allowing others to post under your account name
6. Materials deemed offensive by a member will be reviewed on a case by case basis.
7. The solicitation, distribution or manufacture of illegal drugs will not be tolerated.[/list]

Thanks from "Hot Tub," too.



that's the spirit, Terry! now, if you could make a pic of you in a hot-tub your avatar you would become far more popular here -- a sense of humor about oneself and the association works wonders ;)

<ul type="square"> 7. The solicitation, distribution or manufacture of illegal drugs will not be tolerated.[/list]


uh.....what?!?!?
Is this a DISCussion Board problem?

<ul type="square"> 7. The solicitation, distribution or manufacture of illegal drugs will not be tolerated.[/list]


uh.....what?!?!?
Is this a DISCussion Board problem?



As with many things, it depends who you ask. We are clarifying that folks can talk about whether or not drugs should be legal, but they cannot talk about buying, selling or making them.

Thanks for the encouraging words. And, as always, keep the comments coming. For a thankless task, we seem to be thanked quite a bit. :cool:

Good point, Lyle. I don't care a whole lot for how narrow the policies they're asking to apply have become, but they are doing a decent job at it . . . and more. Thanks from "Hot Tub," too.

BTW, my wife says that Hawk got both parts of that right: I am "tubby" and I'm also "hot." :D



The best part of this is that everytime Hawk calls Terry "Hot Tub" I think of Will Ferrel in the Lovers skit on SNL saying "hah-tub."

What is the over under on underwear Micky being suspended again.

2 days???

What is the over under on underwear Micky being suspended again.

2 days???



Once his account is reactivated, UnderParMikey will be free to present all the rebellion, criticism or dissent he wishes. However, if he cannot do so without personal attacks, his posting privileges may once again be suspended. According to our Rules (http://www.pdga.com/msgboard/boardrules.php?Cat=), he'll be on a 3 month probation until 6/14/07. If there is another offense during probation, he'll receive another 3 month suspension.

I'm putting the over-under at 6 posts.

Do you think that there will ever be a 4th option after X number of 3 month suspensions, the user would be banned?

Seems like that allowing constant trouble makers to return all they want after a slap in the wrist in the long run really isnt cureing anything, other than for 3 months.

I'll take the under. :D

Usually it takes Mikey a few days to get up to speed and out of control. I'd bet he'll keep it mb legal for ten days at least.

Usually it takes Mikey a few days to get up to speed and out of control. I'd bet he'll keep it mb legal for ten days at least.


\
Two things to consider. The first is that UPM has sworn up and down on the SN MB that he's never coming back /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif. You know what they say though, once you've had PDGA, nothing else will do. :D

Secondly, I'm guessing mike saved those N*azi jpegs to his hard drive. It won't take him long to get them out. The question becomes: what gives Mikey the biggest thrill, reading this thread and seeing if he can set a record, or hanging around to punish the PDGA as much as he can?

Do you think that there will ever be a 4th option after X number of 3 month suspensions, the user would be banned?

Seems like that allowing constant trouble makers to return all they want after a slap in the wrist in the long run really isnt cureing anything, other than for 3 months.



I thought about this when making the rules and ended up deciding that if someone wanted to become a PDGA member and not follow the MB rules, allowing them to post four times a year seemed fair.

This would only be the case for folks that either don't learn or would rather be suspended. The goal is for folks to adjust their posts and become a constructive part of the discussion, and I am all for giving members that opportunity over and over again. (btw, I am an eternal optimist)

WELCOME BACK MIKE!

Usually it takes Mikey a few days to get up to speed and out of control. I'd bet he'll keep it mb legal for ten days at least.


\
Two things to consider. The first is that UPM has sworn up and down on the SN MB that he's never coming back /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif. You know what they say though, once you've had PDGA, nothing else will do. :D

Secondly, I'm guessing mike saved those N*azi jpegs to his hard drive. It won't take him long to get them out. The question becomes: what gives Mikey the biggest thrill, reading this thread and seeing if he can set a record, or hanging around to punish the PDGA as much as he can?



Can someone be banned for posting outrageous lies? Apparently not in Lyle's case. Care to show me where I swore up and down, oh great truth distorter?

And now, let the personal attacks against me begin, so that they will go unpunished by our testically-challenged moderators. Let slanted enforcement of the PDGA forum rules begin anew!

And to all you self-righteous bastages out there who continue to claim I do nothing for the sport, I just finished running a tournament that raised over $1000.00 for charity.

Let's see if the shady staff of Texas States can top that.

We just did one here in Texas that raised over $1,500.00 for charity. How's that?

I like it. Too bad you're not running TX States.

Welcome back Mikey! ;)

...the shady staff of Texas States.



Care to prove that accusation?


(Oh wait, this is the internet, you don't have to.)

Why does it seem that guys who are the "most" supportive of open discussion and freedom of speech are always the first to call for banning or punishment?

BTW - When I get the time I'll look through the SN MB for the post I read where I thought you said you weren't coming back. Perhaps I misread. See what happens when you get old.

Why does it seem that guys who are the "most" supportive of open discussion and freedom of speech are always the first to call for banning or punishment?





It only seems that way to some people who I am definitely not referring to. It's probably a side effect of the chemicals in their Depends.

Can someone be banned for posting outrageous lies?


I'm pretty sure they can't. :(

Nice way to come out of the gate swinging with BS innuendo and personal attacks, mikey.

Can someone be banned for posting outrageous lies?


I'm pretty sure they can't. :(




Well, if the outrageous lies include personal attacks and/or physical threats, then that would be absolutely be against PDGA DISCussion Board Rules and subject to suspension.

But if you post that the moon is made of green cheese, or that you ran one mile in less than 3 minutes, or that you shot 10 aces in one round (all of which are outrageous lies) then you're not breaking DISCussion Board rules.

I like it. Too bad you're not running TX States.



What have you got against Nez and Neal? Do you even know them? That's pretty sad Mike.

Has mikey made six posts yet? :)

But if you post that the moon is made of green cheese, or that you ran one mile in less than 3 minutes, or that you shot 10 aces in one round (all of which are outrageous lies) then you're not breaking DISCussion Board rules.

:cool:Pat Robertson can leg press 2,000 pounds due to his special shake recipe: http://www.cbn.com/communitypublic/shake.aspx. I bet he can drive 500+ feet with a golf disc.

:cool:Pat Robertson can leg press 2,000 pounds due to his special shake recipe: http://www.cbn.com/communitypublic/shake.aspx. I bet he can drive 500+ feet with a golf disc.



Yup, you can post that kind of stuff all day if you want. :D

Terry's so smart :cool:

welcome back. your dreams were your ticket out :eek: ;)

Pat's sig.: Learning occurs best in environments where there is contempt for the status quo, where the past and present are not revered, and where there are no sacred cows



sounds like a great place, if one can locate it between one's ears. seems all to rare to me. ;)

Why does it seem that guys who are the "most" supportive of open discussion and freedom of speech are always the first to call for banning or punishment?





It only seems that way to some people who I am definitely not referring to. It's probably a side effect of the chemicals in their Depends.



You know, I keep rereading this and no matter how I slice it it comes out as a compliment. Thanks Mike! BTW - I don't do chemicals, depends or otherwise. Of course if I wanted to I could move to Stinkadena in East Houston and they'd knock me right up! :D

Pat's sig.: Learning occurs best in environments where there is contempt for the status quo, where the past and present are not revered, and where there are no sacred cows



sounds like a great place, if one can locate it between one's ears. seems all to rare to me. ;)



Here is Texas cows ain't sacred, just scared... :o That and good eatin'

But if you post that the moon is made of green cheese, or that you ran one mile in less than 3 minutes, or that you shot 10 aces in one round (all of which are outrageous lies) then you're not breaking DISCussion Board rules.

:cool:Pat Robertson can leg press 2,000 pounds due to his special shake recipe: http://www.cbn.com/communitypublic/shake.aspx. I bet he can drive 500+ feet with a golf disc.



He could throw that far until he got old and needed an age protected division Hot Tub. You forget that 50' loss every three months past 50 you keep spouting.

Pat's sig.: Learning occurs best in environments where there is contempt for the status quo, where the past and present are not revered, and where there are no sacred cows



sounds like a great place, if one can locate it between one's ears. seems all to rare to me. ;)



Lyle: Here is Texas cows ain't sacred, just scared... :o That and good eatin'



if you mean real cows they die scared given the way they are "harvested" so the fear chemicals are in the meat, and they are not so good for your arteries ... so unless you're all Spring chickens, hopefully you Texans get plenty of cardio exercise (disc golf doesn't count)

as for sacred cows -- Bush built his political career in Texas by hiding his hyena-nature in sacred cow clothing and look where that led him (okay he didn't win the popular vote, but in he got). so while your apparent loyalty to Texas sounds nice -- i question it :p

Go Edwards! :D[/thread drift]

happy bday rob! i hope your next one see a lot of things go your way.

Pat's sig.: Learning occurs best in environments where there is contempt for the status quo, where the past and present are not revered, and where there are no sacred cows



sounds like a great place, if one can locate it between one's ears. seems all to rare to me. ;)



Lyle: Here is Texas cows ain't sacred, just scared... :o That and good eatin'



if you mean real cows they die scared given the way they are "harvested" so the fear chemicals are in the meat, and they are not so good for your arteries ... so unless you're all Spring chickens, hopefully you Texans get plenty of cardio exercise (disc golf doesn't count)

as for sacred cows -- Bush built his political career in Texas by hiding his hyena-nature in sacred cow clothing and look where that led him (okay he didn't win the popular vote, but in he got). so while your apparent loyalty to Texas sounds nice -- i question it :p

Go Edwards! :D[/thread drift]



Ahhhh, a liberal wannabe.

So, let's cover the farmer lexicon (and yes, I grew up on a farm). Cows ain't scared because they're going to be et. I'll leave that one to your imagination. As for Texans eating cow, yep, and way too much. That's why I eat fish. I grew up in Seattle.

As for Bush and sacred cows, that's a reach. The sacred cow in this country is that we're a democracy /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif, Bush acts like a petty dictator. Nothing sacred about it.

As for Edwards, Mr. I don't have the chutzpa to vote against the war, try a real liberal...

Kucinich for President 2008!

So did UPMikey get banned again?

doesnt look like it, why do you ask?

I didn't see him posting anywhere for a couple of days. Maybe he changed his name and avatar?

[quote}



But if you post that the moon is made of green cheese, or that you ran one mile in less than 3 minutes, or that you shot 10 aces in one round (all of which are outrageous lies) then you're not breaking DISCussion Board rules.

[/QUOTE]

Or, if you are one of the golden boys protected by the moderators, you can slander anyone you want without repercussions.

Sorry if anyone interpreted any of my posts as a slam on Texas States. I actually meant to slam the entire state of Texas, which is still in love with W, the worst president in the history of the USA. YEE HAW LET'S SEND SOME MORE SOLDIERS TO THEIR DEATHS SO TEXANS CAN GET RICH!!!!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v132/gtagod/funny%20signs/war_in_texas_lingo.jpg

OOPS!!! SORRY I DIDN'T MEAN TO POST ANOTHER PICTURE OF A NAZI.

Louisianans are just as wed to big oil as Texas, and probably support the boob just as much as folks around here.

OOPS!!! SORRY I DIDN'T MEAN TO POST ANOTHER PICTURE OF A NAZI.



Now come on Mikey, the Nazis actually had a plan for world domination. /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

James, I'm not sure Louisianans support Bush much after Katrina. Something about lack of support...

So did UPMikey get banned again?



Communications Director Steve Dodge hasn't gotten around to it yet, but eventually there will be a list of those who are on probation and those whose posting privileges have been suspended. Right now that latter list only consists of Morgan Wright.

None of Mike Kernan's recent posts have violated PDGA DISCussion Board rules.


Or, if you are one of the golden boys protected by the moderators, you can slander anyone you want without repercussions.



No one is above the rules. There are no golden boys here - the rules are applied equally to everyone. To wit, both Lyle Ross and Bruce Brakel are on probation for personal attacks. (Again, this information and a full list will soon be posted and made available for all to see)

LOL! The lack of support for Katrina may have been the fault of local, state and federal government, and 100 years of poor decision making, but it was not solely Bush 's fault. You might as well say it was Clintons fault too.... I bet you Bush haters would love to see America on its knees as you blindly drive past in your gas guzzling hummers from a block away, on the way to a Cindy Sheehan peace rally all the while wearing a "Support our troops" tee-shirt and a "Keep our borders open" hat.

LOL! The lack of support for Katrina may have been the fault of local, state and federal government, and 100 years of poor decision making, but it was not solely Bush 's fault. You might as well say it was Clintons fault too.... I bet you Bush haters would love to see America on its knees as you blindly drive past in your gas guzzling hummers from a block away, on the way to a Cindy Sheehan peace rally all the while wearing a "Support our troops" tee-shirt and a "Keep our borders open" hat.



Every time I read one of your posts I think, "Wow! How did we stay free before Bush? Without him the communists or sombody should have taken over!"

Personally, every time a Democrat gets elected I have visions of having to wear a burkha, or a collarless shirt or some other token of some evil empire somewhere... /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

So did UPMikey get banned again?



Communications Director Steve Dodge hasn't gotten around to it yet, but eventually there will be a list of those who are on probation and those whose posting privileges have been suspended. Right now that latter list only consists of Morgan Wright.

None of Mike Kernan's recent posts have violated PDGA DISCussion Board rules.


Or, if you are one of the golden boys protected by the moderators, you can slander anyone you want without repercussions.



No one is above the rules. There are no golden boys here - the rules are applied equally to everyone. To wit, both Lyle Ross and Bruce Brakel are on probation for personal attacks. (Again, this information and a full list will soon be posted and made available for all to see)



Yep, Bruce and I, better known as the scum of the PDGA MB, hangin' out, messin' wit your minds. But some day we'll be free of the ignomy of probation and then you'll see! We'll get you, and your little dog too! :D

Ah!! And if I read through just about any thread where certain members have been, I find some form of political bashing going on. I just think it gets old. I am glad the PDGA has assigned moderators. For now, I'm glad my son does not read stuff on this site..... It gets pretty ugly, liberal, I mean ugly.. Oh you know what I mean...I just feel compelled to respond in kind from time to time and stand up for the GOP...

[/QUOTE]

[/QUOTE]Every time I read one of your posts I think, "Wow! How did we stay free before Bush? Without him the communists or sombody should have taken over!"

Personally, every time a Democrat gets elected I have visions of having to wear a burkha, or a collarless shirt or some other token of some evil empire somewhere... /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

[/QUOTE]

Don't forget... 67% agree that Senior has a firmer grip of reality....

If someone would buy the President a membership, the message board would get pretty quiet on the the Bush Bashing threads! :D Rhett, you got an extra $50?

I'm on probation for saying, "20 or 30 IQ points?" In context, I was just making a statement that is true of all of us. If I had room in my sig line for more characters I'd include the question, "What are you 20 or 30 IQ points short of understanding here?"

I'm 20 or 30 IQ points short of understanding why global warming is a bad thing. Bring it on. I threw a Rogue 384 football field feet today, which for me is big distance. Not doing that in zero degree air.

[quote}

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v132/gtagod/funny%20signs/war_in_texas_lingo.jpg



From a member of the GOP....And a Texan...that is pretty **** funny!

No one is above the rules. There are no golden boys here - the rules are applied equally to everyone. To wit, both Lyle Ross and Bruce Brakel are on probation for personal attacks. (Again, this information and a full list will soon be posted and made available for all to see)



You'll have to wait for Steve to get around to it though. :o

:D

You are on probation for telling me I lack 20 to 30 IQ points?

I wasn't bothered and didn't complain. I'm used to far worse.

What am I missing here? :D

If someone would buy the President a membership, the message board would get pretty quiet on the the Bush Bashing threads! :D Rhett, you got an extra $50?

I'm on probation for saying, "20 or 30 IQ points?" In context, I was just making a statement that is true of all of us. If I had room in my sig line for more characters I'd include the question, "What are you 20 or 30 IQ points short of understanding here?"

I'm 20 or 30 IQ points short of understanding why global warming is a bad thing. Bring it on. I threw a Rogue 384 football field feet today, which for me is big distance. Not doing that in zero degree air.



is it just me, or do lawyers have this obnoxious, knee-jerk tendency to think that they are at minimum 20 to 30 IQ points
smarter than everyone else? :eek: :p :D

global warming is not a bad thing as a mere thought exercise disconnected from the ramifications for particular organisms and
the relative friendliness the Earth (on which they depend for practically everything) affords them.

do humans even deserve a planet as good as this one? as individuals, probably so. as a group? in 50 years or so we should have the verdict.

you're not confusing correlation with causation are you?


/msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

:D

You are on probation for telling me I lack 20 to 30 IQ points?

I wasn't bothered and didn't complain. I'm used to far worse.

What am I missing here? :D

I can't say now. Maybe someone not on probation could say... :D

:D

You are on probation for telling me I lack 20 to 30 IQ points?

I wasn't bothered and didn't complain. I'm used to far worse.

What am I missing here? :D

I can't say now. Maybe someone not on probation could say... :D



I think the punchline to the joke is "20 to 30 IQ points" :D

If someone would buy the President a membership, the message board would get pretty quiet on the the Bush Bashing threads!

Maybe we'll find out. :D

I disagree that things will get quiet here because of that, though. The fact that we can all get out and play now seems to be making that happen already. However, I would love the opportunity to engage the Smirking Chimp (http://www.smirkingchimp.com/) on DISCussion. (Maintaining silence about IQ points here!)

But I think it's a great idea. When things get worse and he moves his residence to Paraguay (http://www.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,,1928928,00.html ), we could get our first courses built in South America.

How about giving Will Ferrell a membership. He's the one who got the President/Disc Golf excitement started.

How about giving Will Ferrell a membership. He's the one who got the President/Disc Golf excitement started.

You know, I like this idea. Perhaps we should compile a list of well known people who might actually try disc golf out and come up with a donated pool of dollars to join some of them? I don't think it is illegal in any way (I sure hope not, I've done it a lot!) to join someone else to the PDGA.

Maybe getting their PDGA number and gear would stimulate something. Can you imagine what the White House receiving office would do with a PDGA membership package?

what did the augusta mayor do with his (or hers, whichever the case may be)?

I'd be willing to donate to the Will Ferrell membership fund.

Just think..... We could then expect to see a movie in about 5 years from now called High-times at Wintrop Gold starring Will Ferrell and George W. About two out of work guys, one an actor the other an ex-pres, :Dwho have sold out to the highly additive sport of disc golf and are in the USDGC as a publicity stunt to save the game due to A lack of membership! :p

:D

You are on probation for telling me I lack 20 to 30 IQ points?

I wasn't bothered and didn't complain. I'm used to far worse.

What am I missing here? :D

I can't say now. Maybe someone not on probation could say... :D



Now, of course, if The Cowboy er ah Commander in Chief was a member, I suspect you would be on double secret probation. Moderate lawyers (even those who have been long time supporters) who are 20-30 IQ points ahead of the curve have been known to lose their jobs if they are too soft on some rules violations and too tough on others. Then again I wouldn't want to offend anybody (and risk probation myself) for calling somebody a moderate. :D

If someone would buy the President a membership, the message board would get pretty quiet on the the Bush Bashing threads!

Well, I'll be darned - http://www.pdga.com/tournament/playerstats.php?PDGANum=32588

Can you imagine being on the same card? "Well, heh heh, I'm the decider and when I do it, it's not called pencil-whipping. Unitary executive, you know. Heh heh. Oh, wait, I know it's lying on the ground over there but it really went in. That was a birdie. No, it was an ace."

If someone would buy the President a membership, the message board would get pretty quiet on the the Bush Bashing threads!

Well, I'll be darned - http://www.pdga.com/tournament/playerstats.php?PDGANum=32588

Can you imagine being on the same card? "Well, heh heh, I'm the decider and when I do it, it's not called pencil-whipping. Unitary executive, you know. Heh heh. Oh, wait, I know it's lying on the ground over there but it really went in. That was a birdie. No, it was an ace."



Don't forget the occassional spike hyzer to look for oil!
Or if someone is really banging the chains, protesting their score by claiming they're using a WMD.
And lets make sure Cheney isn't his caddy. We wouldn't want to accidentally have some buckshot implanted in us! /msgboard/images/graemlins/ooo.gif ;) :D

(Disclaimer: Just making a funny. No harm intended!)

LMAO!!!

http://www.outletradio.com/grantham/archives/bush_shouting.jpg
That was NOT a falling putt!!! It was a necessary movement toward national security!!!

Classic!

LMAO!!!

http://www.outletradio.com/grantham/archives/bush_shouting.jpg
That was NOT a falling putt!!! It was a necessary movement toward national security!!!

Well, I'll be darned - http://www.pdga.com/tournament/playerstats.php?PDGANum=32588

Can you imagine being on the same card? "Well, heh heh, I'm the decider and when I do it, it's not called pencil-whipping. Unitary executive, you know. Heh heh. Oh, wait, I know it's lying on the ground over there but it really went in. That was a birdie. No, it was an ace."



Well well well, if it isn't our old friend Hot Tub personally attacking a PDGA member, insinuating that said PDGA member is a liar and a cheater. And here our dear "Moderator" claims that there aren't any golden boys who get to break all the rules with no repercussions. I'll probably be banned for pointing this out, just like I was banned the last time for pointing out the golden boy's flagrant breaking of Discussion rules. Nice talking to ya'll for a week, anyway. See ya in 3 months.

Well, I'll be darned - http://www.pdga.com/tournament/playerstats.php?PDGANum=32588

Can you imagine being on the same card? "Well, heh heh, I'm the decider and when I do it, it's not called pencil-whipping. Unitary executive, you know. Heh heh. Oh, wait, I know it's lying on the ground over there but it really went in. That was a birdie. No, it was an ace."



Well well well, if it isn't our old friend Hot Tub personally attacking a PDGA member, insinuating that said PDGA member is a liar and a cheater. And here our dear "Moderator" claims that there aren't any golden boys who get to break all the rules with no repercussions. I'll probably be banned for pointing this out, just like I was banned the last time for pointing out the golden boy's flagrant breaking of Discussion rules. Nice talking to ya'll for a week, anyway. See ya in 3 months.



Michael Kernan #14304, if you see something posted by Terry Calhoun or any other message board user that you feel violates PDGA DISCussion Board rules, please feel free to use the 'Notify Moderator' button at the bottom of the post to let us know of a post that may violate the rules of this board. The 'Notify Moderator' button is the icon just to the right of the finger with a string around it. This will trigger and initiate the review process.

If a moderator isn't in agreement that the post violates our Rules, he will send you a message letting you know that the issue has been reviewed and has been found not to violate the PDGA Discussion Board rules. If you would then like to appeal that decision, you are then free to contact Steven Dodge, the PDGA Communications Director for a second opinion.

This system of checks and balances and oversight ensures that there are no golden boys on the PDGA DISCussion board. It ensures that content that violates our rules is handled accordingly, and material that doesn't violate our rules is permitted unconditionally.

mike, wow, you make aninteresting point. its one thing to rag on the POTUS, but quite another to diss a Member of The Association.

i doubt W will post here though, although it would be fascinating to hear what he has to say on this.

Sandal, to whom might one appeal if one finds the moderators are only enforcing the rules against some posters? Certainly one wouldn't appeal that directly to the moderators. Interesting, I did hit the "notify moderator" button as soon as I witnessed Hot Tub's latest personal attack...yet 20 minutes later the Moderator feels a need to point out that I should have hit said button. Perhaps the "notify moderator" button has been disabled, which may explain why I have retained my posting privileges this long.

Can someone please explain to me why there is a PDGA member in Washington named George W. Bush.

is this a coincidence? is this a joke?

Hey Mikey, McCoy here

The PDGA Membership of "the W" is a farce...I'm 99.9% sure that G-Dub didn't fork over his $50 to become a PDGA member.

So basically the whole idea of attacking a Mr. Bush is also tounge in cheek. If Terry had actually been posting that about you or a real PDGA member maybe there would be a reason to take a ruler to the back of his hand.

Take care and will I see ya in H-Town

mike, according to the message board rules:

"A moderator will contact you and let you know the results of the investigation of the post. Every ruling can be appealed to the PDGA Communications Director - Steve Dodge - and Steve will review the decision. If necessary, Steve will request input from outside sources."

MTL, you are aware of W's general disdain for drug laws, right? :D

forget the pres...howabout making the actor from friends a member...he plays right?

Sandal, to whom might one appeal if one finds the moderators are only enforcing the rules against some posters? Certainly one wouldn't appeal that directly to the moderators. Interesting, I did hit the "notify moderator" button as soon as I witnessed Hot Tub's latest personal attack...yet 20 minutes later the Moderator feels a need to point out that I should have hit said button. Perhaps the "notify moderator" button has been disabled, which may explain why I have retained my posting privileges this long.



Mike,

Feel free to send your appeal to PDGA Communications Director Steve Dodge. The 'Notify Moderator' button is working just fine - we just received your formal complaint and a moderator will get back to you soon with a decision.

great news...I like it...

Hey Mikey, McCoy here

The PDGA Membership of "the W" is a farce...I'm 99.9% sure that G-Dub didn't fork over his $50 to become a PDGA member.

So basically the whole idea of attacking a Mr. Bush is also tounge in cheek. If Terry had actually been posting that about you or a real PDGA member maybe there would be a reason to take a ruler to the back of his hand.

Take care and will I see ya in H-Town



I don't know McCoy, when you look up that member it looks real to me. Amazing that a so-called "moderator" would make such whimsical assumptions. Maybe you could check with the PDGA membership staff before you let Hot Tub off the hook for another blatant personal attack.

You won't find me at Hypocrisy Town (H-town), McCoy. Too many moderators haved moved in there.

Doesn't make any difference if he's a member or not.

DGA Discussion Board Rules - The following will not be allowed:

1. Profanity
2. Personal attacks
3. Materials or links to materials which are not suitable for a minor
4. Physical threats against other members (obvious or veiled) will not be tolerated.
5. Allowing others to post under your account name
6. Materials deemed offensive by a member will be reviewed on a case by case basis.



Doesn't say that "personal attacks against members" will not be tolerated, just "personal attacks". So you can't even personally attack Osama bin Laden (and Hot Tub can't attack GWB, member or no member) on the board without fear of the suspension hammer.

BTW - welcome back (temporarily), UPM!!!!

who paid for Matthew's membership? did he get the full member package? has he ever done anything for disc golf?

he plays.

Someone could email his Publicity Agent and maybe find out...... It would also be interesting to know how many famous disc golfers there are... Just for fun

i'd say we've gotten more value from Hawk's Membership but that would pointing out the obvious.

i'd say we've gotten more value from Hawk's Membership but that would pointing out the obvious.



Yeah but he got to make out with Julia Roberts. I tour with Rich. Somehow not equivalent.

Well, I'll be darned - http://www.pdga.com/tournament/playerstats.php?PDGANum=32588

Can you imagine being on the same card? "Well, heh heh, I'm the decider and when I do it, it's not called pencil-whipping. Unitary executive, you know. Heh heh. Oh, wait, I know it's lying on the ground over there but it really went in. That was a birdie. No, it was an ace."



Well well well, if it isn't our old friend Hot Tub personally attacking a PDGA member, insinuating that said PDGA member is a liar and a cheater. And here our dear "Moderator" claims that there aren't any golden boys who get to break all the rules with no repercussions. I'll probably be banned for pointing this out, just like I was banned the last time for pointing out the golden boy's flagrant breaking of Discussion rules. Nice talking to ya'll for a week, anyway. See ya in 3 months.



Hmmmm!

Let's see, Dick Cheney is a is a criminal

Condi Rice is an having an affair with... someone

Gonzo is an ambulance chaser, at best

Rummy is a terrible poet (that one's even true)

I wonder if someone is willing to buy every idgit in the Bush Administration a membership to make a point? At this rate we should have enough money to really promote the sport.

Oh and by the way, GW is a terrible disc golfer, did you see his rating?

i'd say we've gotten more value from Hawk's Membership but that would pointing out the obvious.



Yeah but he got to make out with Julia Roberts. I tour with Rich. Somehow not equivalent.



Whew! for a minute there I read "Matthew got to tour with Julia..."

On the other hand, I definitely disagree, we've gotten much more out of Matthew Perry's membership than out of Hawk's; just thinking about making out with Julia Roberts made it worth the price. /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

I hear a dirty rumor that Jason Kidd of the Nets (??? I don't watch basketball) is an avid player. I believe we in NY/NJ area have tried to get him to come out before, to no avail.

I think I'll just wait until I become famous, then I'll do my best to promote. I think the Fats Classic Invitational Tournament Championship Cup has a nice "major" ring, eh?

At this rate we should have enough money to really promote the sport.

are you suggesting that a Membership for W is not an effective way to promote the sport?

i wish he would post. maybe he cant figure out how to register.

Can someone please explain how a thread discussing drug use among top pros breaks one of the rules? It just seems that the thread in no way broke one of the rules. An explination would be great, as I am sure I am not the only person confused by this. Thanks for all you guys do.

Can someone please explain how a thread discussing drug use among top pros breaks one of the rules? It just seems that the thread in no way broke one of the rules. An explination would be great, as I am sure I am not the only person confused by this. Thanks for all you guys do.



I agree with you that the thread may not have broken any rules. However, there was a request from the original creater of the poll and thread to remove it. Moderator Kevin McCoy honored that request.

It portrays the sport in a negative light. Simple as that.

So since no rules were broken, I could start the exact same poll and it would be allowed to stay up since I, as the creator, would not want to take it down?

Not saying I will or would, just throwing out "what ifs"

It portrays the sport in a negative light. Simple as that.



I didn't know portraying the sport in a negative light was against the rules?

according to the Moderators, it likely would stay up. but please don't start anther one :D there's lots of ways to talk about this issue without competing for the Most Poorly Conceived and Executed Poll Ever Award :cool:

So since no rules were broken, I could start the exact same poll and it would be allowed to stay up since I, as the creator, would not want to take it down?

Not saying I will or would, just throwing out "what ifs"





It portrays the sport in a negative light. Simple as that.



I didn't know portraying the sport in a negative light was against the rules?



Portraying the sport in a negative light is indeed not against the rules. I am not recommending or suggesting you do so, but if you started the exact same poll, and as the creator, would not want it taken down, it should be allowed to stay up.

I am committed to upholding the rules of this message board and ensuring that content that violates our rules is handled accordingly, and material that doesn't violate our rules is permitted unconditionally.

I will take responsibility for removing the thread...There were over a dozen complaints that the thread had no value, and was very negative. I rec'd numerous PM's to have it removed. I made the judgment call that it was a worthless topic and did nothing but belittle what we are trying to do here. If you want to be upset at anyone for the thread being pulled take it out on mois.

Plus as a 1000+ rated golfer I could see it being a personal attack against my fellow 1000+ rated golfers

exactly.....
Mtl, join a debate team if you like arguing for arguments sake...You, the self proclaimed promoter and lover of this sport, should be against things that do nothing but take away from what we are trying to build. Lets give ammo to anyone who wants to degrade our sport. I dont hate you rubber toe, I just dont understand your contrdicting ways....Be a discgolfer: practice, play and promote. Dont harp on the negatives....What golfers do on their own time is of no concern to you or people just browsing the forum....

So, Kevin, did the original poster request its removal, or not? If not (and, arguably, even if so), it mos def shouldn't have been removed, and you may have made a flying leap past the boundary of your authority as a moderator!!

There are no MB rules against threads/posts that might be construed as
worthless topic and did nothing but belittle what we are trying to do here

and it is quite inappropriate to censor a post that violates no rules. :(

When an NBA player is suspended for posession of whatever, he is suspended. When an athlete wins a medal in Olympic competition, he is tested for all drugs, not just performance enhancing drugs.

Why should we lower our standards as a sport? If we continue with this "just hide it it's all personal stuff" attitude, we will not get to where we want to be. Our standards do not need to be lower than those of other sports.

I'm not dumb enough to think that any sport will 100% drug free, but all I'm saying is that I personally feel that trying to reduce drug use by our golfers IS promoting the sport b/c I know where this sport wants to go and what it will take to get there.

The olympics REQUIRE drug testing. For this very fact, we are not currently elidgeable to be an olympic sport and I see that as a drawback.

The author said it was cool if it was 86'd.

if DG was in the BeiJing Olympics, what would that get us exactly? our parks are not designed as stadium golf the way the PGA is. our infrastructure cant support an overnight tripling of membership. early entry into the olympics cold be worse than getting the timing correct.

(just spurring some thought here, not attacking your desire to see the sport grow)

If the original poster merely acquiesced to a moderator's "request", and specifically solicit its removal, it still seems very "Big Brother" to me. Very much like in Animal House: "Mind if we dance with your dates?" You aren't really in a position to say no.

or maybe the original poster was agreeing that the thread wasnt working out as intended and that it should be removed?

And maybe Otter really wanted those fellas to dance with their dates. My point is, with the hammer of AUTHORITY doing the askin', one can never know.

So, Kevin, did the original poster request its removal, or not? If not (and, arguably, even if so), it mos def shouldn't have been removed, and you may have made a flying leap past the boundary of your authority as a moderator!!

There are no MB rules against threads/posts that might be construed as
worthless topic and did nothing but belittle what we are trying to do here

and it is quite inappropriate to censor a post that violates no rules. :(



I personally felt it violated rules #2 &amp; #3 as well as flirted with rule #6

PDGA Discussion Board Rules - The following will not be allowed:

* 1. Profanity
* 2. Personal attacks <font color="red"> It attacked all 1000+ rated golfers</font>
* 3. Materials or links to materials which are not suitable for a minor <font color="red"> You think drug use is suitable for minors?</font>
* 4. Physical threats against other members (obvious or veiled) will not be tolerated.
* 5. Allowing others to post under your account name
* 6. Materials deemed offensive by a member will be reviewed on a case by case basis.<font color="red">It's case by case and I thought that rules 2&amp;3 were broken </font>
* 7. The solicitation, distribution or manufacture of illegal drugs will not be tolerated.

if DG was in the BeiJing Olympics, what would that get us exactly? our parks are not designed as stadium golf the way the PGA is. our infrastructure cant support an overnight tripling of membership. early entry into the olympics cold be worse than getting the timing correct.


But what good incentive to grow quickly!
Look at the Chicago bid for the Olympics. The city and various commissions and departments are feverishly redesigning parks, parking lots, and even transit systems. Although we don't have the resources that Da Mayor has at his disposal, I'm sure the disc golf community can rise to such an occasion.
In fact, there are usually new courses installed (and older ones spruced up) for each year's Worlds.

good job KEV...I am behind you 100%....
We should be discussing what discs and what techniques the 1000+ golfers are using and not how they spend their evenings, and free time.

OK, here we go:
1) A "personal attack" is against a person, not a group. If I said "Kevin McCoy is an evil elf," that would be a personal attack. If I say "39% of Oklahomans are evil elves," that is certainly NOT a personal attack.
2) While I certainly do not believe that drug use is suitable for minors, DISCUSSION OF drug use is not only suitable for them, but every parent's responsibility to the minor(s) that are their charges.
3) While I'm sure you received some cries of "Offensive," just because somebody complains that doesn't make it so. What % of MB users need to be offended (and complain about it) to make a thread/post taboo? Or is it just that one MB user & one moderator needs to be offended to censor the words?

Let me add, I, too, think that the thread was pretty silly. But I also believe that it patently did not violate any MB rules & should not have been censored.

you have every right to disagree as well as I have every right to disagree.

We will have to agree to disagree. ;)

W3rd. :D

good job KEV...I am behind you 100%....
We should be discussing what discs and what techniques the 1000+ golfers are using and not how they spend their evenings, and free time.



Why b/c they are good? Should they be allowed to break the law in thier free time simply b/c they are good disc golfers? Should we stand by and not be upset when we hear stories about it?

I just don't get how people do not care about the biggest problem in our sport!

I'm curious myself what constitutes a personal attack around here, since the last time I was banned, I was banned for a personal attack, yet my post did not mention anyone by name.

Let's see if K-Mac is a 1000+ rated Moderator or if his skills are limited to playing & hot babe attraction.

Let's see if K-Mac is a 1000+ rated Moderator or if his skills are limited to playing & hot babe attraction.



Sometimes you'll end up sacrificing some of your earlier skills to gain the new one. :eek:

I'm curious myself what constitutes a personal attack around here, since the last time I was banned, I was banned for a personal attack, yet my post did not mention anyone by name.

Let's see if K-Mac is a 1000+ rated Moderator or if his skills are limited to playing &amp; hot babe attraction.



lol that's pretty funny....

I would give myself a 925 rating for Moderation, I'm still a rookie.
I'm a 985 golfer at C-Tiers but near a 1025 golfer at NT's &amp; Majors
Landing CP made my Hot Babe Attraction rating skyrocket near 1100 :D

No. Your moderation rating is below 650 because you didn't answer the question. What is a personal attack and why was I banned for posting something that attacked no one personally? Or am I just as paranoid as the PDGA?

I'm curious myself what constitutes a personal attack around here, since the last time I was banned, I was banned for a personal attack, yet my post did not mention anyone by name.




No. Your moderation rating is below 650 because you didn't answer the question. What is a personal attack and why was I banned for posting something that attacked no one personally? Or am I just as paranoid as the PDGA?



http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/personal-attack.html

The personal attack you made on 12/14/06 was quite obvious. It was reported by a message board user, agreed to by a moderator, and upheld by PDGA Communications Director Steve Dodge. Three different people instantly recognized that you made a personal attack, and because you were already on probation, you were suspended for it.

Honestly I have no idea why you were banned...I think it was before my time.

My definition of personal attack:

Anything that assails with unfriendly or bitter words towards a person, group of people, or organizations that begins to affect or threaten to act on injuriously.

How's that?

... b/c I know where this sport wants to go and what it will take to get there.


Kinda lofty here... :p

good job KEV...I am behind you 100%....
We should be discussing what discs and what techniques the 1000+ golfers are using and not how they spend their evenings, and free time.



Why b/c they are good? Should they be allowed to break the law in thier free time simply b/c they are good disc golfers? Should we stand by and not be upset when we hear stories about it?

I just don't get how people do not care about the biggest problem in our sport!



Oh my god....grow up....Its not your job to police people you barely know. This isnt a D.A.R.E. program... This thread said nothing about breaking laws and standing by...It was basically slander and low down, trying to drag the best players in our sport through the mud! Because they are better than you robert, gives you no right to point out what facets of life you find yourself better at...Every sport has its problems and problem makers....Noone is standing by and not caring, they are just focusing on the good those players do, instead of their personal activities. If you need a crusade to occupy your life, go to downtown areas of the city and report troublesome behavior...It would be a shame to lose even one of our elite players to humiliation and alianation because of a handful of peoples moral code...My 2cents.
Maybe you havent played other sports at higher levels or interacted with those who do and have...Noone ever said " muhammed Ali was a great boxer, too bad he smoked pot....Who cares what they do!?!?! they play my favorite sport better than me...One day i will be beating them; it was written. I will delete this post shortly....if someone else does not.

Kind of like, "Jane, you ignorant slut?"

<font color="blue"> [offensive picture removed] </font>

Oh Great Moderator with no life other than Discussion, please, do dig up that post, and show it for all the PDGA to see...let the members of this organization judge your Moderator skills, which are so poor.

Or, just take the easy road out again dear Moderator with no life, and ban me for another 3 months instead of actually having the courage to try and defend yourself. It's the PDGA way after all.

Exmaples of personal attack...

Oh Great Moderator with no life other than Discussion, please, do dig up that post, and show it for all the PDGA to see...let the members of this organization judge your Moderator skills, which are so poor.

Or, just take the easy road out again dear Moderator with no life, and ban me for another 3 months instead of actually having the courage to try and defend yourself. It's the PDGA way after all.



Not very offensive, but by definition, personal attacks.

Oh Great Moderator with no life other than Discussion, please, do dig up that post, and show it for all the PDGA to see...let the members of this organization judge your Moderator skills, which are so poor.

Or, just take the easy road out again dear Moderator with no life, and ban me for another 3 months instead of actually having the courage to try and defend yourself. It's the PDGA way after all.



this is mikey's way of getting the moderator suspended, as he'll come back and say "to be fair if i was suspended for the post then he needs to be suspended for showing the post"

we're on to you mike :D

hopefully the moderator won't fall for your evil ploy :eek:

KJ, in reality, the Moderator with nose whipes would not be banned for showing that post, because none of you would be able to figure out who I was personally attacking, or who the Moderator was attacking by quoting my post.

Kind of like, "Jane, you ignorant slut?"



Finally!! An infusion of sanity into this thread. Thanks Chevy. /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

It would be a shame to lose even one of our elite players to humiliation and alianation because of a handful of peoples moral code



I agree with this in some way.

I will always agree that it is a shame to lose any type of player, regardless of skill or talent or rating, in this game.

However, more people have and will leave b/c of the drug issue tha the amount of people that will leave b/c thier drug problem was pointed out.

Just think about it and try to see things on both sides of the argument.

Just another thing I want to repond to....


what facets of life you find yourself better at



Under the basic principles of Christianity which I follow, I do not feel I am better than anyone. Even if for some reason I felt that way, it is not place to judge other people.

Stating that I am doing this b/c I think I am better at them in some aspects of life is pure slander. I bring up topics like this b/c disc golf is going to hit a major road block b/c of the drug issue. The last two have been:
1. The ESPN issue
2. The World Games issue where someone could not compete b/c the World Games drug tested.

What will be next? The loss of a major NT sponsor that refuses to sponsor a sport with a known drug problem that refuses to drug test?

Under the basic principles of Christianity which I follow, I do not feel I am better than anyone.





Me either!

[image unsuitable for a minor removed]

Pointing it out in public is certainly not going to help us...Pointing it out in public is certainly not going to make them stop, but at least helping to portray our sport in a positive light will...Please understand that our sport is in its infancy, and more often than not, its better to point out and highlight how great it is rather than publicly reinforce this horrible stereotype...help the child grow into something great rather then lable and point out its flaws.

What will be next? The loss of a major NT sponsor that refuses to sponsor a sport with a known drug problem that refuses to drug test?



Sheesh, and you call me paranoid?

Baseball has a bunch of steroid-shooting cheaters...yet, they still attract millions of corporate sponsorship. Sponsorhip has nothing at all to do with drugs...it's all about money!

As a Christian, you'd think Jesus would have told you that when he talks to you. But then, people might think you were insane if you told people a voice in your head named Jesus told you what to do...yeah, I wouldn't tell anyone about that voice in your head named Jesus either...

"Guns cause crime like flies cause garbage..." - a favorite (and appropriate) bumper sticker I've seen.

Pontification comes to mind here...knowing what's best for a sport AND it's followers.

While I believe your heart to be in a good place, MTL, the extent of your crusade is OB.

Nice. Let's just pretend like there is no pot smoking issue in PDGA sanctioned disc golf tournaments, even though you can go to any NT or major and witness it almost immediately upon arriving at the park, and have it foisted upon you at lower tier events.

Kev, please pass the kool-aid. Mine apparently isn't working. :p

Kev, please pass the kool-aid. Mine apparently isn't working. :p



You mean like with Jim Jones, or like in Mr. Rogers neighborhood. ;)

I don't think we should pretend it is not an issue, but I do think we should not drag our top professionals through the mud either. At some point someone is going to start the whistle blowing, and then I bet we will see some changes in behavior. Like it or not, with the current growth rates in membership, someone out there won't care about being labeled a snitch and will get someone DQ'd.

Does the PDGA consider ephedrin an illegal substance? Word on the streets is that BOB is popping 4-5 weight loss ephies per round. I cannot be silent anymore.

...all I'm saying is that I personally feel that trying to reduce drug use by our golfers IS promoting the sport b/c I know where this sport wants to go and what it will take to get there.


I could not agree more. Reducing illegal and performance enhancing drug use has been a expectation in all major sports, why should our sport be any different? I, for one, am tired of DG being viewed as a sport for stoners. So, IMO, if you take the game seriously (meaning, you want respect for the game and the skill), you should want to change our image and do something about drug use.

Also, if I go onto the NBA website and post my thoughts on a major player getting suspended for drug possession, am I tarnishing the image of the game? NO. It is the player that tarnished the image. So, to you 1000+ players or any other who think my discussing the problem IS the problem, you need to open your eyes and view this issue like every other major sport. The problem is the use, not the discussion.

Pointing it out in public is certainly not going to help us...Pointing it out in public is certainly not going to make them stop, but at least helping to portray our sport in a positive light will...Please understand that our sport is in its infancy, and more often than not, its better to point out and highlight how great it is rather than publicly reinforce this horrible stereotype...help the child grow into something great rather then lable and point out its flaws.

Wait. Are you talking about 1000 rated players' drug use or MTL's religion? :D

Pointing it out in public is certainly not going to help us...Pointing it out in public is certainly not going to make them stop, but at least helping to portray our sport in a positive light will...Please understand that our sport is in its infancy, and more often than not, its better to point out and highlight how great it is rather than publicly reinforce this horrible stereotype...help the child grow into something great rather then lable and point out its flaws.

This is much better stated than your earlier response. We do need to spend the majority of our time promoting what is good about our sport and our players (OF ALL LEVELS). But we do not have to ignore the elephant in the room while we are doing this. We can have honest, open and meaningful discussions about the drug problem (we first have to admit it is a problem) WHILE we continue to promote the great sport and players of Disc Golf.

Having read a few more of these posts, I have a couple other thoughts: First, I am not sure we are ready for drug testing on a regular basis, if only for practical reasons. However, I could see drug testing at the two or three major events each year. If nothing else, this would make a statement that the PDGA is not complacent regarding our image as a stoner sport.

However, my bigger concern is that as a sport I am not sure we are doing enough to simply discourage drug use on and around the course. I would love to see discussion of what we can do to curb this behavior, but honestly, I am not sure that enough DGers really want to do anything about it.

Pointing it out in public is certainly not going to help us...Pointing it out in public is certainly not going to make them stop...

One other thought, I do not consider discussion on the PDGA DISCussion boards as "public". Who reads this stuff? Most DGers don't even frequent these boards. How many non-DGers do you think really visit here? Maybe it's not private, but I wouldn't describe things being discussed here as being discussed "in public".

Also, let's face it, the idea of DG being a stoner sport IS already being discussed in public. I've had a number of people who discover that I play DG ask about it's reputation as a sport for potheads.

It is pretty simple really. If the TD's started strictly enforcing PDGA policy and making an announcement that anyone seen during play will be disquallified and their fee forfeit, people would begin to hide out and not blatently endulge in public. I know this isn't a solution thats removes the problem, but it would at least help us have a cleaner image to those who are spectators, or beginners etc...

I have seen quite a bit of endulgance in the two measley years I have been a member. And this is mainly at Am only events. Pro/Am events seem to be a bit more toned down on the party scene. But the events that I have attended that had a TD making a clear point about the rules and their intentions have had way less illegal activity in the open.....

If the players know the TD is seroius, and respect the TD, I think they will honor the rules...

Boys. I am reading a few pages of this thread on a Friday afternoon before I leave work. One could utter very disparaging things about me because I could be getting real work done rather than reading this drivel. All I can say is this:

If a casual passer by saw a couple disc golfers smoking a joint behind a tree or happened by this board and read this thread I am certain the sport would be done a much greater diservice by this nonesense. I write to nobody in particular and to all who post and read here-- "get thee a life." I am ashamed of myself for wasting the time not so much as to read but to take the time to post here. SHEEESH.

I assume none of you are the flaming [INSERT NEGATIVE TERM HERE] that the others are claiming you are. I am sure the dissenters are not anarchists looking to blow up the sport and that the moderators are not beat cops or middle managers weiding a night stick of mini-power. Take a deep breath and chill out lest ye prove all your opponents assertions to be true.

Kind of like, "Jane, you ignorant slut?"



Finally!! An infusion of sanity into this thread. Thanks Chevy. /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif


It was Dan Aykroyd, not Chevy...

Kind of like, "Jane, you ignorant slut?"



Finally!! An infusion of sanity into this thread. Thanks Chevy. /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif


It was Dan Aykroyd, not Chevy...



You'll note, I said sanity, not accuracy. "Thanks Dan." In all fairness my attention span wasn't particularly long in those days..... Or today either for that matter.... there goes a butterfly....... :eek: /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

I work at night, and i post between practice puting sessions...AND, I am serious about everything I post.

As the creator of the removed poll I feel the need to chime in.

First of all, out of respect to those of you who found the poll to be offensive, I did reccomend to the moderators to have the poll removed.

For those of who who thought that the poll was negative and harboring personal attacks, I could not disagree more. It was definately not my intent to drag anyone through the mud. For those of you wondering, my intent was only to confirm my own suspicions of how our sport is viewed by its own members.

We already know that Disc golf is viewed as a stoner sport by the general public. I am often times embarrassed to mention that I am going to play a tournament to my business partners, parents, or anybody else that I want to impress. The general public views us all as potheads, wake up people. Some of you felt like we needed to hide the poll as soon as possible because we don't want anybody to see it. I got news for ya: They already know! :oEverybody knows.

For those of you who thought that the poll was negative, and that "nothing good can come out of it." I ask you to open your eyes. What was negative were the results of the poll. You cannot blame the poster for that, we all know whos to blame and its not me. I was wanting the % to be much lower. If just one of the top pros looked at the poll and was upset, instead of complaining about the poll, they decided to do somthing about the stigma, then that would be something positive.

For the record I got something valuable out of the poll. We already know that a high % of casuals are potheads, and I had suspicions about the top of the food chain. I have confirmed to myself that disc golf is a stoner sport and based on the resposes, most members wish to turn a blind eye.

Now I have a choice to make. Do I want to take my family to these stoner events, do I want to invest my free time and money into a stoner sport. :confused:

I think you'd be hard pressed to determine that drug usage of any kind was more or less common at any level of play in any sport even with the most "scientific" of polling methods. If real stats could somehow be known and participants in one sport had 30% usage, another 50% and another 70%, not necessarily during competition, would that actually impact your choice of sport?

If you have to be exposed to it and judged by it. then yes.

Imagine you are on parole, and somehow discover disc golf not for the dope heads that abound but for the outdoor experience and simple joy of flying plastic. You discover tournaments, and to your horror you realize that you either have to a "snitch", which no self-respecting parolee would ever be, or else you have to risk going back to prison if the cops show up to bust a player on your card at the PDGA World Championships. Consorting and all that sends you back to the slammer. Since it is a tournament, you do not have the option to just walk away from the doper card like you can in casual golf.

Imagine instead that you work for the government and have some sort of clearance. Same scenario. Same result, except it's "loss of job" instead of "back to jail".

Wouldn't it be nice if PDGA sanctioned disc golf were inclusive of all people who wished to play disc golf instead fo being limited to only those that can and choose to be surrounded by drug abusers?

We already know that Disc golf is viewed as a stoner sport by the general public. I am often times embarrassed to mention that I am going to play a tournament to my business partners, parents, or anybody else that I want to impress. The general public views us all as potheads, wake up people.

Although I respect your opinion. It's possible that you are projecting your own opinion about disc golf onto the general public. I do not accept as a factual basis for discussion that it is true that "We already know that Disc golf is viewed as a stoner sport by the general public."

Here is a different perspective: In my non-disc golf social life, family personal life, and business professional life, there are literally thousands of people who know - from talking to me or from reading what I write - that I love disc golf. I doubt if more than a tiny handful, if that, of those people share the perspective on disc golf that you attribute to the "general public." Maybe those thousands of people do not represent the general public. If not, they are a substantial chunk of folks who do not share that general perspective.

Further, I have made it a point to ask parks and recreation officials at many courses how they feel about disc golfers and illicit drugs. (Including this past weekend in Bowling Green.) The answer has always, invariably, been that they view the disc golfing population in their parks as a subset of the general population, behaviorally, with the exception that we are neater and pick up after ourselves.

P.S. I am at the moment driving from Bowling Green, KY to Ten Mile, TN. I just competed in the big tournament there - something like 700(?) competitors. Before we went, I asked my wife to join me in looking very, very hard at the competitors - during and outside of competition - for illicit drug use or drinking. We did see some drinking - outside competition - in parks where it should not have been (but by spectators not competitors), but no drinking during competition at all. We neither saw, nor smelled any illicit drug use at any time.

Did we miss some? Maybe. But we were looking very, very hard and could not see it.

You know how when you have a sore spot in your mouth and you feel it with your tongue and it seems so huge, but it really isn't? Or a sore pimple on your nose that hurts so bad you think everyone must be staring at it, but no one else is really even looking. Maybe this stuff is a similar sore spot for you?

I really believe that the problem can be solved by the local involvement (at any given sanctioned tournament) of the players and TD's. Recently I heard a story about a player who brought along their child during the tourny as a caddy. This player made it clear to the other players before they started that certain rules violations would not be tolerated during play, and there were none, even though there otherwise might have been. Likewise if the TD makes it clear that the rules are to be and will be strictly enforced, the players tend to take it to heart. It simply about who is in charge here.... The association, the TD and the established rules, or the players and their obvious lack of ability to self police themselves. If you make a statement before the round begins that you can have nothing to do with certain behavior, most people will respect your wishes. It is up the playes to take a stance. Many times in NorCal fire danger is a concern at tournaments. Players are instructed by the TD regarding smoking ect. and if they are caught they will be DQ'd. No one breaks this rule! Seems to me to be a clear example of how the TD can be the answer. It is a matter of how serious the TD makes the point before play begins....

Although I respect your opinion. It's possible that you are projecting your own opinion about disc golf onto the general public...[after describing a tourney Terry and wife attended] We neither saw, nor smelled any illicit drug use at any time.

Terry, I also respect your opinion...but the fact is, these are only opinions and personal observations. First, I don't believe that with your history in the sport that you are trying to say that illegal drug use is not a common occurance at disc golf events. By common, I mean that you can find it if you look. Is it possible to attend a single event and never see drug use, possibly. But seriously, you have seen it at other DG events and I can't imagine you would believe drug use is unusual at DG events.

This doesn't mean that I believe everyone does it, or most, or even 20% of players. I don't know what the number is, but if it is common - it's a problem.

As far as how the "public" views the sport. Fact is, most of the public doesn't even know about the sport! So we can only speak of our own individual experiences. I don't know if it is "common" for the "public" to view DG as a stoner sport, but I know that there are folks that do...enough that it concerns me.

It seems that you do not feel drug use at DG events is a problem; but personally, I believe you are mistaken. When so many of our own say it is common and many players state openly that they use at events, how can we deny it? It is certainly not a well-kept secret.

I really believe that the problem can be solved by the local involvement (at any given sanctioned tournament) of the players and TD's.

If not solved...at least the problem will be greatly curtailed! I agree that a strong position on drug use that is clearly stated to all players is the best deterent to this problem. The PDGA can make rules and take positions all day, but until the TDs and players do something to address the issue, it will probably not be resolved. Why is it that we are more likely to say something about a player throwing trash on the course than we are to ask him/her not to smoke pot?

A great example of respect for rules ect. can be found at some Am events I have attended. These Am events are held at parks that have strict rules about smoking drinking ect. Most people respect the rules and keep any behavior that breaks park rules very low key lest they pay the penalty. Players have been ticketed (very costly) by local police, and/or arrested depending on the circumstances at these courses! The word is out and most players respect the rules at these tounaments.

i heard a RUMOR that a handful of folks got DQ'd, penalized, whatever, for violating 804.05 at a recent event. is this rumor true? i'd like to know cuz it sure is making the rounds in these parts, and i'd like to know how to respond.

i heard a RUMOR that a handful of folks got DQ'd, penalized, whatever, for violating 804.05 at a recent event. is this rumor true? i'd like to know cuz it sure is making the rounds in these parts, and i'd like to know how to respond.



You can start by NOT responding to RUMORS, or at least respond by debunking said rumors.

Chap

i want to kill it if it isnt true. as far as i know its bogus. unfortunately it was told in front of 30 people. all i could say was i hadnt heard of it and if it was true as described then the folks who got caught also got what they deserved. but even that is conjecture.

i heard a RUMOR that a handful of folks got DQ'd, penalized, whatever, for violating 804.05 at a recent event. is this rumor true? i'd like to know cuz it sure is making the rounds in these parts, and i'd like to know how to respond.

Rule 804.05 gives four different behaviors that can result in disqualification...which one was rumored to be violated?

i'd rather not perpetuate a rumor. i have heard nothing to confirm it yet. i'll ask a the BoD meeting tomorrow evening.

My point is that rule 804.05 gives multiple reasons that one can be disqualified. So, to say "that a handful of folks got DQ'd...for violating 804.05" doesn't say much at all. And what is the fear of perpetuating a rumor? It isn't much of a rumor if all you are saying is someone said someone got disqualified for something. It's all rather vague and meaningless...even for a rumor.

I've heard there are rumors that there are rumors about there being rumors...

We already know that Disc golf is viewed as a stoner sport by the general public. I am often times embarrassed to mention that I am going to play a tournament to my business partners, parents, or anybody else that I want to impress. The general public views us all as potheads, wake up people.

Although I respect your opinion. It's possible that you are projecting your own opinion about disc golf onto the general public. I do not accept as a factual basis for discussion that it is true that "We already know that Disc golf is viewed as a stoner sport by the general public."

Here is a different perspective: In my non-disc golf social life, family personal life, and business professional life, there are literally thousands of people who know - from talking to me or from reading what I write - that I love disc golf. I doubt if more than a tiny handful, if that, of those people share the perspective on disc golf that you attribute to the "general public." Maybe those thousands of people do not represent the general public. If not, they are a substantial chunk of folks who do not share that general perspective.

Further, I have made it a point to ask parks and recreation officials at many courses how they feel about disc golfers and illicit drugs. (Including this past weekend in Bowling Green.) The answer has always, invariably, been that they view the disc golfing population in their parks as a subset of the general population, behaviorally, with the exception that we are neater and pick up after ourselves.

P.S. I am at the moment driving from Bowling Green, KY to Ten Mile, TN. I just competed in the big tournament there - something like 700(?) competitors. Before we went, I asked my wife to join me in looking very, very hard at the competitors - during and outside of competition - for illicit drug use or drinking. We did see some drinking - outside competition - in parks where it should not have been (but by spectators not competitors), but no drinking during competition at all. We neither saw, nor smelled any illicit drug use at any time.

Did we miss some? Maybe. But we were looking very, very hard and could not see it.

You know how when you have a sore spot in your mouth and you feel it with your tongue and it seems so huge, but it really isn't? Or a sore pimple on your nose that hurts so bad you think everyone must be staring at it, but no one else is really even looking. Maybe this stuff is a similar sore spot for you?



I've argued both sides of this issue and to a certain extend it depends on the people you talk to, your own approach to the situation, and the event at hand.

The professionals I talk to invariably see disc golf as an eccentric sport that I love and support. They have no clue about what happens in the sport including potential drug use. The younger proffessionals and students I know often enough smirk and comment on drug use of one type or another. Of course I set them straight pointing out that no disc golfers have as of yet O.Ded on drugs as has happened in all of the major sports.

I've been to big and little events and in general, the drug use decreases the higher you get up the tournament scale. I've seen little drug use at leagues but plenty of beer. I've seen plenty at minis and some at C tiers (this is TD dependent, TDs who won't tolerate it don't have it) I've seen it once at a B tier and never at an A tier.

I suspect there's a correlation there... :D

I do think Terry is correct, it's what you make of it. I doubt seriously if there is more drug use in disc golf than in other major sports on a per person basis. That is, the total number of players doing it probably is similar from sport to sport. There is no question that it is more visible at our events. Once is more than any other major sport I've seen. On the other hand, it wouldn't surprise me to find that the number of players with drugs in their systems at an event isn't all that different between disc golf and any other sport.

Given this, I completely agree with Terry. We view disc golf differently than other sports; and that is primarily because our players aren't smart enough to get high in their hotel rooms before they come out to the course. /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

...On the other hand, it wouldn't surprise me to find that the number of players with drugs in their systems at an event isn't all that different between disc golf and any other sport.

Given this, I completely agree with Terry. We view disc golf differently than other sports; and that is primarily because our players aren't smart enough to get high in their hotel rooms before they come out to the course. /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

You may be right. It is possible that we have no greater percent of illicit drug users in our ranks than any other sport and we are just not "smart enough" to conceal what use there is. But I got involved in this discussion because some thought that talking about what drug use there is was giving DG a bad image. I would propose that the image of using and being stupid enough not to hide it is even worse for our image. I've never said the problem is worse than in other sports...but then I don't care about the issue as it relates to other sports. We have a problem and it must be addressed.

I have been trying to make two points here: 1) We do have a problem and not talking about it or pretending it doesn't exist is NOT the solution. 2) Enforcement by TDs and players would solve the majority of the problem. We don't need massive drug testing, we just need to monitor our behavior at DG events.

Agreed!

However, how we talk about it is important. Second, expecting TDs and players to enforce is going to be an issue. The situation per say is a tough one. It is really hard to get every player and every TD to step up. Therefore, you are going to have great variance in enforcement at that level.

Given our size and what we are, I'm not sure there is a realistic solution at this time. On the other hand, I don't know how important the issue really is. We spend a lot of time worrying about it, but the fact that it is prevalent in snowboarding hasn't killed that sport.

Pat's Birthday Poll

From: bigs

Hey there, Hawk.

A recent post of yours was deleted due to material not suitable for minors / offensive material. Starting today, you are on a 3 month probationary period. If this or other offenses occur during this probationary period, you will be subject to a 3 day posting suspension. If you would like to appeal this decision, please contact Steven Dodge, the PDGA Communications Director.

hey, he was already on probation! this should be a 3 day suspension! Is Hawk getting special treatment compared to underpar mikey?

hey, he was already on probation! this should be a 3 day suspension! Is Hawk getting special treatment compared to underpar mikey?



This is clearly some kind of personal attack. I'm reporting this post.

[Edited for personal attack.]

that's not a personal attack, dillweed! a personal attack would be like if i said you done so many steroids trying to beat me in the bet that one of you doodads fell off and your junk shrunk so small your woman left...



Hello,

Is anyone out there. It's his second vicious personal attack against me in the past ten minutes.

did i miss a Birthday Poll? i thought you got probed already, Hawk?

[Edited.]



Doodads... That is funny....
Is the word "testicle" considered offensive ?

can you use it in a sentance discboomer ?

Hawkgammon is so much better than Dr. Evil , he could beat him with one testicle tied behind his back ... :D

[Edited for personal attack.]



That was fast...

did i miss a Birthday Poll? i thought you got probed already, Hawk?



[Edited.]

When you posted about the birthdates being listed you also had the [censored] cake icon next to your name. So I started a poll on how we could celebrate your birthday. Of course I failed to notice that your birthday is actually in December and the icon was strangely there in error. I would recreate the poll but I can't remember all of the comic genius included. You'll have to contact Mutt and go through his collection of dirty posts he keeps under his mattress.

ah. actually i was testing the new version to see if i could hide my age from appearing. not that i care if anyone knows i am 49, cuz i dont. wierd thing is that altho the birthday icon showed up on the threads, i couldnt get it to show up on the main page... maybe the bday section only updates once a day or sumpin.

thanks for the wishes tho :)

[Edited.]

[Edited.]



A third vicious personal attack in the past 15 minutes. Help me moderators! Now I'm a supplement abuser and an idiot?

the bloated junkie



bloated junkie? i'm not the one mainlining HGH you moron! :o

[/QUOTE]

A third vicious personal attack in the past 15 minutes. Help me moderators! Now I'm a supplement abuser and an idiot?

[/QUOTE]
And yo mamma dresses you funny..

this reminds me of professional wrasslin, when the tag team is giving an interview and get into a fight. hawk is the big steroid pumped one! I'm the cute ladies man... :cool:

wrasslin



I like that ! I though ignorant Texans were the only people allowed to articluate as such :D

I have heard the Dr. Evil is a favorite among female, teenage, fast-food employees in the DelMarVa area.
:D

....... was the day I eradicated frivolous and unsolicitted posts from various PDGA affiliate club threads. I'm a good policeman and I like me. Officer Jeff.

;) /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif :D

Holy discrimination Jeff! I still see 8 other threads with the same content that didn't get deleted. Nice work Jeff, way to keep things consistent. Bad form, completely bad form! :mad:

I vote three months probation for that one! ;)