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At the Memorial, we all had separate cards, which was fine until we were playing at the Fountain in 30mph winds. I ended up taping 2 cards together so at least I would only have 2 cards to deal with. Getting some teeny office clips. solves the problem and makes it a heck of a lot easier to organize them before and during rounds.

A minor investment, but a simple solution to keep people from misplacing a card or 2 or 3 or 4.

Having scorecards by person is less desireable in general. Have one scorecard per group each round and save the clips. Why would you want to risk the scoring history of the event on cards subject to the elements more than once, especially on courses with lots of water? You also don't know who played together in the same group in a prior round if any issues arise that require checking with others in a group.

good idea, but i think seperate scorecards is the way to go. especially since the rules state a card that is over 20 minutes late causes EVERY player on the card a 2 stroke penalty. I had the misfortune recently of leaving an event when i wasn't feeling well with the groups scorecard in my jacket. DOH! i feel really bad about the strokes for the other guys, as i was responsible and i don't see how they could have prevented it. they had no idea i would fail to turn the card in.

maybe even a better model would bea golf type model where each player gets a card to keep track of their score and someone else's score? i don't know what the fix is, but the rule needs looking into. i doubt anyone can explain to me a good reason they should be penalized.

The PDGA Guidelines are in section B7 in the Run a Tournament link on the right side of this page.

http://www.pdga.com/club_affiliate/club_affiliate.php

I hate separate scorecards. It is much harder to keep score during the round than a single card.

I hate separate scorecards. It is much harder to keep score during the round than a single card.

I agree with Rhett, but I don't get worked up over it. If you are going to do separate cards, you should do round-robin scorekeeping withing the group like they did at Am Nats in 2006.

If you are going to do separate cards, you should do round-robin scorekeeping withing the group like they did at Am Nats in 2006.


What does that mean?

I've played in a lot of tourneys that use the dreaded individual score cards, and we always have one person at a time hold all those cards at once and fiddle through the pile of them as we record scores. After a while, the pile o' cards get passed to the next person.

Doesn't everyone do that regardless of scorecard type?

I've played in a lot of tourneys that use the dreaded individual score cards, and we always have one person at a time hold all those cards at once and fiddle through the pile of them as we record scores. After a while, the pile o' cards get passed to the next person.

Doesn't everyone do that regardless of scorecard type?



Sounds like a profound waste of effort to me. I'd thought the best value in separate cards was in reducing pencil-whipping. Beyond that, I don't see many advantages of single-player cards unless you're in the card-stock wholesale business.

Joe

How do separate scorecards discourage pencil whipping ?

What is meant by round robin score keeping ?

That means A keeps B's score, B keeps C's score, C keeps D's score and D keeps A's score. Plus, each player keeps a backup of his own score.

But it is still a pain.

That sounds interesting.

good idea, but i think seperate scorecards is the way to go. especially since the rules state a card that is over 20 minutes <font color="red">that's 25 minutes you Load </font> late causes EVERY player on the card a 2 stroke penalty. I had the misfortune recently of leaving an event when i wasn't feeling well <font color="red">I was desperate to get to Hooters </font> with the groups scorecard in my jacket. DOH! i feel really bad <font color="red">that my waitress liked Your Disc Golf Hero the best </font> about the strokes for the other guys, as i was responsible and i don't see how they could have prevented it. <font color="red">besides not letting me keep score...I have a reputation regarding this </font> they had no idea i would fail to turn the card in. <font color="red">odds were 50-50 </font>

maybe even a better model would bea golf type model where each player gets a card to keep track of their score and someone else's score? i don't know what the fix is, but the rule needs looking into. i doubt anyone can explain to me a good reason they should be penalized.

From a players perspective, single scorecards are a pain. Its easier dealing with just one card. Although, I feel it makes the tourney a little more professional if you have your own scorecard..but, thats just me.

From a scorekeeper perspective, single cards are the way to go IMO. Sure you cant anticipate how many will show up, so you will waste some cards and card stock is more expensive. But a 250 pack of card stock lasts me 3-4 tournaments. So when you break that down, I dont feel like its that much of a waste of paper/money. And, sorting cards in between rounds goes much faster than taking a stack of blank cards and filling out everyones name 4 times over the weekend. Plus, if you run into issues with groupings, its easier to shuffle cards then to scratch names off one and add to another.

I like the idea about using a clip for the cards. It would make them easier to handle. Maybe we should do it like I saw at a recent event. The TD posted hole assignments each round, and each player took a blank card and filled it out themselves.

And, sorting cards in between rounds goes much faster than taking a stack of blank cards and filling out everyones name 4 times over the weekend. Plus, if you run into issues with groupings, its easier to shuffle cards then to scratch names off one and add to another.




The severe downside is losing the event history on those cards, especially if those are used in place of leaderboard cards. Once the top person in the group takes them off the board, players don't know which group they are in when they come to the board to find their hole. If you're using leaderbaord cards anyway, like TDs should, then the single cards are an additional hassle to match them up with the leader cards.

Separate scorecards, meaning two scorecards, with each card having all four players names and scores, should be scored by different people on every hole, imo. At the end of the round, separate people can each turn in the card in their possession. As stated before, it almost eliminates pencil whipping and is a nice backup when one individual fails to turn in the card in their possession.

One card per group makes it very easy to know when all of the cards are turned in.

I'm a computer geek so I like the idea of printing out the order in several places around tourney central and letting the players fill in the (full) names (division and starting hole). I also like having the cards at tourney central between rounds.

I am not sure what you mean by leaderboard cards. Are you talking about that leaderboard card holder that you can buy through the PDGA store? (or something similar) I saw those used at Am Worlds, and I can see how much easier it made keeping score between different Pools/courses. The events I have been involved with have done it the old fashioned way...group the cards and call out the names and hole assignments. There seems to always be a need to announce something before each round, usually a course set-up or rule clarification. So, its easy enough to just call them out. There are probably ways to make that process more efficiant, but its not been my call in the past.

I have a copy of the event score history on my lap-top, the score cards are not the only record of players scores. Do that many events use leaderboard cards?

I haven't played a regional event in years where they didn't have Scoreports, ScorePointes or homemade versions with leader cards. The ScorePointe board in the PDGA Pro Shop is now down to $110. I would hope this becomes standard equipment everywhere even if homemade. The PDGA has boards available for loan to handle bigger events with more than one pool if they aren't being used.

Wow. Am Worlds is the only event I have ever played using a ScorePoint type leader board. I might could come up with some kind of home made version.....might try something like that in a future event. Maybe its just a Minnosota thing ;)

I've played in many states including C-tiers and it seems like Scoreports or homemade ones are standard equipment these days. Anyone else can pipe in if it's not common in their area. Not every TD owns one but they know who to borrow one from when their event comes up.

Ive played in Iowa, Missouri, Nebraska, Wisconsin, Illinois, Minnesota, Texas and California and been to several Worlds and all events had a leaderboard of some type.

The only event I can recall going to recently that did not have a leaderboard was the Memorial.

Hmm....suddenly I feel a little behind the times :) Every event I have been to had scores posted after every round, to show you where you stood within your division. That's what I think of when I think of the leaderboard. Most have also had hole assignments for the following round posted next to your name.

I can't recall an event in Texas that used a scoreport.

A couple that used a similar concept with Magnetic strips on a metal white board, but no scoreports. Most are using computers and posting multiple printouts with hole assignments after the round.

Nothing wrong with computer technology as a bonus. But the manual systems seem to work faster and aren't reliant on batteries or printer ink cartridges. I've seen several events where technology breakdowns severely messed up the event functioning. In the 1997 Worlds, Duster and I finally had the Masters line up in the order of their first round scores and made the groups that way since the new high tech system being used had crashed and delayed the next round maybe an hour when we decided to do that.

Come to think of it, in Texas there was a printout of the hole assignments posted.

You can make a basic leaderboard out of a hinged, louvered closet door. It will hold at least 18 holes of cards. Simply place a layer of battting on the back and screw on a piece of thin plywood. (The batting prevents cards from dropping down.) It is fairly heavy, but it gets the job done for only $30.00 or so.

Several years ago I used cards thumbtacked to a cork board.

Then I started using Magnets.

Then I started using the computer method.

At first, I didn't like the computer over magnets because it seemed to take longer. BUT after a year where I found several adding mistakes, and I had purchaced a laptop I swiched and never regreted it.

It helps when your State Coordenator has written a great scoring program and makes it to your tournament and helps when you screw the program up :D (If I would only take the time to learn the program better)

The pro's of this method is, better track of scoring and much better accuracy.
Ease of registration with knowing what a players rating is so they can't sandbag.
One click to organize.
Can print out several copies to be posted in several locations including both courses.
HANDWRITING not a factor.

Con's are
scoring can only be done by one person instead of several marking scores down and organizing them.
Computer or printer problems.

last year I had to purchase a new printer just for the tournament.

The good thing is, sense my old printer was messed up from running the tournament, the tournament purchased the new printer for me.

++++++++++++++++++++++

Now for scorecards.

I peresonally like one score card per person.

BUT as a TD and for marking scores down either on a board or in the computer, having a score card per round is better.

ALSO, the biggest pain was organizing those cards in time for the next round. When you have 200 players show up, it takes more than 1 hour to score and organize them.

I started doing the "Himing" method where you have the players fill in the names on the card. This one change made the "between rounds" go MUCH smooooother. I don't like doing it, but i will continue this method for my sanity on tournament day.

now if we could print out lables to stick on cards, I will start doing that.

=+++++++++++++++++++++++

Last year in the Rain (what rain at the Carrollton open??) I would even laminate the leader printouts so the rain would not ruin the sheets.

All hail the Abacus!!!

While I havent had the fortune of having our SC at my events, I have enjoyed using his scoring routine. I used Jerry Powers routine as well, and the one thing I like better about it is the way it consolidates divisions on the page verses one page per division. It takes less time to compile scores and less time to print out. But, I like the rest of Gary's well enough that I am going back to using the Abacus. However, I have never had more then 75 people on one course to deal with, so for 200 on multiple courses, I can imagine several divisons need their own page anyway. If I were smart enough, I would take the best parts of each and create my own (giving them credit of course).

As a player, I'm not sure I like the 'Himing' method, but I understand how much easier it is on the staff...so, its ok then. I'll keep doing the work for the players until such time as I lose my sanity :cool:

I have had small problems with my printer, but have been able to make it by so far. I wouldn't mind getting a better printer..but, I have to get permission from the boss first....

Printing labels is a good idea. I may look into it...see how hard it would be.

I started doing the "Himing" method where you have the players fill in the names on the card. This one change made the "between rounds" go MUCH smooooother. I don't like doing it, but i will continue this method for my sanity on tournament day.

now if we could print out lables to stick on cards, I will start doing that.



Himing method works fine for lower tier events since players have the incentive to mark down their names anyway.

Ask Nez about printing labels. That method about brought the 2003 Pro Worlds to its knees with the time it took to do that in between rounds. For smaller events it can work. But better have a manual backup plan.

Ask Nez about printing labels. That method about brought the 2003 Pro Worlds to its knees with the time it took to do that in between rounds. For smaller events it can work. But better have a manual backup plan.



Chuck, I didn't need that memory refreshed. :)

Several years ago I used cards thumbtacked to a cork board. Then I started using Magnets. Then I started using the computer method.

The first event I marshaled was the Gentleman's tournament in Las Vegas. They used strips of whiteboard-like plastic with magnets on the back for leaderboard cards and wrote on them with Sharpies.

At the end of the first day I took the time to type all of the day's scores into my laptop.

They were glad I did, the next morning: It rained and the Sharpie writing on all of the strips melted. (They weren't used enough to lots of rain to have a big tent, etc.)

Very nice club, BTW.

Actually Himing's way was started because we were drawing close to 200 players per event. It takes a very long time for a couple of volunteers to make out score cards for that many players before the first round starts.

It takes vitually no time for the players to write in the names themselves as they pick up the cards.

The only problem I had as a score keeper was that they sometimes didn't write in the division or starting hole.

Those go a long way in helping fogure out who is on the card when you are battling poor penmanship. The additional benefit to having one card per hole is that it helps decipher the names when you know it is one of the 4 (or 5) players that were on hole 6.

One interesting way I have seen is 4" ceramic tiles. Each player gets a tile. Color coded dot for division, and they go on a slate board/dry erase board on a table. No blowing away. Each player can easily be shuffled to where he needs to be (one long row or 2 rows of 9 for each round) If you do everything on the tiles in Sharpie, then you can give each player their tile at the end of the tournament. Kind of a cool memento. Imagine a tile from every tournament you ever played, you could tile a bathroom or kitchen (If the wife would let you).

One interesting way I have seen is 4" ceramic tiles. Each player gets a tile. Color coded dot for division, and they go on a slate board/dry erase board on a table. No blowing away. Each player can easily be shuffled to where he needs to be (one long row or 2 rows of 9 for each round) If you do everything on the tiles in Sharpie, then you can give each player their tile at the end of the tournament. Kind of a cool memento. Imagine a tile from every tournament you ever played, you could tile a bathroom or kitchen (If the wife would let you).

I was about to suggest how nice figuring a memento for players into this would be. Just have to make sure you keep those tiles dry.

One interesting way I have seen is 4" ceramic tiles. Each player gets a tile. Color coded dot for division, and they go on a slate board/dry erase board on a table. No blowing away. Each player can easily be shuffled to where he needs to be (one long row or 2 rows of 9 for each round) If you do everything on the tiles in Sharpie, then you can give each player their tile at the end of the tournament. Kind of a cool memento. Imagine a tile from every tournament you ever played, you could tile a bathroom or kitchen (If the wife would let you).

I was about to suggest how nice figuring a memento for players into this would be. Just have to make sure you keep those tiles dry.



Spray them w/ Krylon Acrylic Crystal Clear (makes em waterproof), add felt feet and use them as coasters.

Yeah. And you might even get special ceramic tiles made up, when the tournament can afford it, that have the tournament or club logo on it. Kul!

This reminds me of another idea I have had that I would like to put out there. Back when I was playing 13-15 sanctioned events a year, unlike the past couple of years, I thought it would be cool if the PDGA issued little metallic sticker that TDs could hand out, one to each player for each tournament, that we could put on our car windows - kind of like Air Force Aces in WWII.

I might end up with one NT, 2 A-Tiers, 8 B-tiers, and 5 C-Tiers, all lined up in rows. :cool:

Krylon Acrylic Crystal Clear is also a UV protectant so spraying it on you PDGA sticker before you put it on your car will make the colors last much longer.