Just curious to see what the interest would be in the opportunity to attend a voluntary disc golf chapel on Sunday mornings during weekend tournaments. Other sports have them.....would anyone be interested in having the chance to attend a disc golf chapel on Sunday mornings?

With the wording of "opportunity" then I believe the answer from EVERYONE should be strongly agree.

The poll doesn't mean that you would be forced to attend.

have it available, or lead a prayer meeting at the event? its always available - a player can go to a church. make it mandatory? no way. some of us are not into religion. i have not been in a church for a couple decades and would rather not participate in an event, or organization, that supports organized religion. religion is best left as an individual preference, and is best practiced privately. in public it is more like second hand smoke.

What if some people are not of your faith and their beliefs do not include going to a chapel? So, I would think that EVERYONE would not feel this way. ;)

Tell us how you really feel, Pat. ;)

I believe what Mike is talking about a very informal spiritually based gathering before the rounds on Sunday. I don't believe he as a "Come to Jesus" meeting in mind.

Attendence is, of course optional.

Harold usually offers it for players on Sunday at the USDGC or at least he did when the final day was Sunday. Offered but not required.

As a Frisbeetarianist, I often feel a peaceful, religious-like calm watching discs fly. And the sense of community, which is what I suspect is a primary reason why many people who go to church - since so many don't know much about the religion: http://www.usatoday.com/news/religion/2007-03-07-teaching-religion-cover_N.htm?csp=34 - is another thing I get from disc golf. I think it was on the Daily Show earlier this week that a particularly conservative congressman or a senator was asked if he could list the Ten Commandments. He could not even get started.

I've been places where a chapel or prayer is routine for some who are competing. It seems to mean a lot to those who do and I definitely support the opportunity being there for whoever wants to do it in their own way. At one course in, I think Tennessee, maybe Kentucky, there was a huge, old oak tree, and some players would stop and do a brief prayer as they went past it during competition. I liked that.

Related side comment: You often hear about prayer being "banned in school." Funny thing about that. I am not a believer, but when my kids were little, I decided to run an experiment. Every single time I have been in a school building for 20 years, I have done a little prayer . . . and not once did anyone try to stop me.

Related side comment: You often hear about prayer being "banned in school." Funny thing about that. I am not a believer, but when my kids were little, I decided to run an experiment. Every single time I have been in a school building for 20 years, I have done a little prayer . . . and not once did anyone try to stop me.



You rebel, you! :D

Who/what did you pray to? Out loud?

Just curious to see what the interest would be in the opportunity to attend a voluntary disc golf chapel on Sunday mornings during weekend tournaments. Other sports have them.....would anyone be interested in having the chance to attend a disc golf chapel on Sunday mornings?



Ummm...you do realize of course that 47% of surveyed (http://www.pdga.com/msgboard/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=Miscellaneous&Number=602115&page=&view=&sb=5&o=&vc=1&fpart=1) PDGA members roll with Satan?

have it available, or lead a prayer meeting at the event? its always available - a player can go to a church. make it mandatory? no way. some of us are not into religion. i have not been in a church for a couple decades and would rather not participate in an event, or organization, that supports organized religion. religion is best left as an individual preference, and is best practiced privately. in public it is more like second hand smoke.



well said -- besides, i have never understood why people want to worship creation from inside a manmade structure? :confused:
isn't church a state of mind/heart rather than a building?

disclaimer: "organized" religion is like a gilded lily

What kind of chapel are you talking about?

isn't church a state of mind/heart rather than a building?

"organized" religion is like a gilded lily



Truth

What kind of chapel are you talking about?


My interest would be with those who normally go to church on Sunday, but because of the weekend tournament, have to miss their normal worship routine. Are there many of you out there who would desire a short worship opportunity with like minded disc golfers on a tournament Sunday? The disc golf chapel would simply be a chance to meet that desire.

Ummm...you do realize of course that 47% of surveyed PDGA members roll with Satan?



In a nutshell, I am wondering if the other 53% would be interested. :)

the process of surrendering to the infinite, guided by praying to "something" works great as a way of feeling connected to the universe and freeing oneself from fears. Personally, I like wordless prayers, aka medidation, and short mantras. Although I don't do it much, I can understand the desire and power to pray as a group. I get this experience at John Coltrane-esque concerts.

The concept that I struggle to understand is the need to have a sanctioned time and place for prayer by a certified guru-type person.

If a disc golfer wants someone to pray with before their round, then why not just ask the guy that you're cutting through the woods with on the way out to your hole, "hey, you wanna be my prayer buddy?"

Sure, if you wanted to designate a place as the official pre/post round praying station it wouldn't bother me, I'd just have to ask a couple questions about the details:

1) Would the prayer station be open to those of all faiths, or would you have blocks of time scheduled for each particular faith to pray separately?

2) If the station was to be used in separate blocks of time, would the tournament entry form include an optional space to write-in your religious preference in order to write the prayer station use schedule?

and most importantly, for all the players:

3) Would the prayer station be OB and would there be a drop zone in use?

True Christians would welcome anyone ...especially the "47%".

What kind of chapel are you talking about?



since i find manmade structures anti-thetical to religious inspiration, i am thinking of something like the earth itself as it whirls through the star-filled sky.

if a structure (tent even) were erected, perhaps those who worship hippie lettuce would be allowed by our organization and religious freedom loving nation to use it as a Sanctuary too :eek: :D

disclaimer: the author in no way wishes to condone illegal activities nor activities that could be considered detrimental to the image of the PDGA. the author does wish to trick people into lightening* up

*please note that i mean lighten up -- not light up ;)

Wow -

How could so many people misunderstand what the author is asking?

He wants to know if Christians would like to get together before Sunday rounds and have a little worship service. Of course it would be open to people of all faiths, including non-Christians. He is not talking about building a Chapel at the disc golf course or asking to make a mandatory prayer meeting.

Even if you "Roll with Satan", you should understand that this is America and everyone, even Christian disc golfers, are free to worship as they wish. Oh the tragedy if you should happen to overhear a prayer or hymn while you are warming up!

This is not a discussion on how you don't want to go to an organized Church, or that you find faith in other ways, or how you don't want Jesus thrown in your face, or that you want everyone to embrace Jesus. It is about a disc golfer looking to participate in an organized faith meeting before Sunday events with others.

Are you interested or not? We don't need to hear why.

Exactly!!

Which is why I posted....



With the wording of "opportunity" then I believe the answer from EVERYONE should be strongly agree.

The poll doesn't mean that you would be forced to attend.

Wow -

How could so many people misunderstand what the author is asking?

He wants to know if Christians would like to get together before Sunday rounds and have a little worship service. Of course it would be open to people of all faiths, including non-Christians. He is not talking about building a Chapel at the disc golf course or asking to make a mandatory prayer meeting.

Even if you "Roll with Satan", you should understand that this is America and everyone, even Christian disc golfers, are free to worship as they wish. Oh the tragedy if you should happen to overhear a prayer or hymn while you are warming up!

This is not a discussion on how you don't want to go to an organized Church, or that you find faith in other ways, or how you don't want Jesus thrown in your face, or that you want everyone to embrace Jesus. It is about a disc golfer looking to participate in an organized faith meeting before Sunday events with others.

Are you interested or not? We don't need to hear why.



I'll come if the chicken dance is mandatory!

I don't have a problem with people worshipping christianity before a tourney, However I would request that it be kept a few hundred feet from tourney central. And that equal respect and opportunity be givin to people who want to worship other mythical beings.

It's funny to me how you always hear that Christians need to be more tolerant of other faiths and beliefs and that we shove it down people's throats, etc. But in today's society, Christians are the ones who aren't allowed to say anything and the ones who get bashed the most.

Btw, church is not a building. Church is worship and fellowship. This is why you commonly hear "church building" to denote the building itself, where someone will say "I'm going to church" to denote going to a service, whether it's indoors or out. Besides, the original question had nothing to with an actual building, so why it was brought up, I don't know.

It's funny to me how you always hear that Christians need to be more tolerant of other faiths and beliefs and that we shove it down people's throats, etc. But in today's society, Christians are the ones who aren't allowed to say anything and the ones who get bashed the most.



give me a break. Christians have been allowed to say far more in this country than anyone else and too often have referred to those not of the Christian flock as the damned.

in a not so Christian-centric reading of the original question, it would be presumptious to assume the author was talking about Christianity.

but then we are an extremely Christian-centric nation -- so much so that even those who say they don't believe are often referring specificly to the / a Christian belief system.

next thing you know we'll hear non-smokers complain about being persecuted /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Wow -

How could so many people misunderstand what the author is asking?

He wants to know if Christians would like to get together before Sunday rounds and have a little worship service. Of course it would be open to people of all faiths, including non-Christians. He is not talking about building a Chapel at the disc golf course or asking to make a mandatory prayer meeting.

Even if you "Roll with Satan", you should understand that this is America and everyone, even Christian disc golfers, are free to worship as they wish. Oh the tragedy if you should happen to overhear a prayer or hymn while you are warming up!

This is not a discussion on how you don't want to go to an organized Church, or that you find faith in other ways, or how you don't want Jesus thrown in your face, or that you want everyone to embrace Jesus. It is about a disc golfer looking to participate in an organized faith meeting before Sunday events with others.

Are you interested or not? We don't need to hear why.



Yes, What Discette Said!!!

Also, from the looks of the poll, there are close to half that would like to see the opportunity, so that half, which I am a part of, show up Sunday before the round and enjoy our time in fellowship with Our God and also enjoy the fellowship with each other.

Everyone that doesn't want to enjoy this time, then don't be there, be somewhere else. Remember it is your right as a citizen of our USA to be where ever you want when you want, so you go practice your putts and we will worship and after it is said and done, we will all go play and have a good time.

As I see it, those that don't want this happening are just arguing for the sake of an argument. That is ok. You do what you want and so will I. It has worked well for me for the last 49 years and I still enjoy the company of every Disc Golfer I have had the opportunity to be around. (ok, maybe not 1 or 2). :eek:

If you happen to be at a tournament that I run, don't be around my tournament headquarters at 7:00 to 7:15 am on Sunday mornings, unless you want to hear or be a part of a devotional. It has worked well at every event I have run in the last 25 years and I have not heard any complaints yet. :D

This past weekend, a bunch of us locals were playing a casual round, and we were discussing religion.

I actually said, that "This" (being the gathering of friends together) IS my church.

From a larger ecumenical perspective, this is true.
I often refer to the gathering of the tribe on tournament day as "Terrapin".

All references to the same thing. It is all One Love.

I was typing a reply but I decided against it. I'm at work and don't have time for this.

I will just say that I did not assume a Christian service from the initial post. I assumed an any faith gathering, because that's what makes sense.

I will just say that I did not assume a Christian service from the initial post. I assumed an any faith gathering, because that's what makes sense.



I assumed Christian from the use of the words Chapel and Church. I also assumed that any faith would be welcome.

I apologize if those assumptions were not correct.

I was typing a reply but I decided against it. I'm at work and don't have time for this.

I will just say that I did not assume a Christian service from the initial post. I assumed an any faith gathering, because that's what makes sense.



A couple of things:

1) A chapel is a building where Christian worship occurs. The assumptions that this was for Christian worship isn't illogical. Nor was the assumption that the original post wanted to set up a structure for Christian worship. As a regular abuser of the English language I'm hardly one to complain, but in this case...

2) I strongly believe in the American ideal that all religions have the right to pursue their beliefs. I equally support my right not to observe. I've yet to see any religion that doesn't shove itself down other's throats at any opportunity, it's called marketing. Some are harsher than others but that varies with time and place.

That said, I'm all for a little prayer meeting at any time, as long as it's quiet and personal. Holy rolling at an event where I'm playing will result in a courtesy warning and then a one stroke penalty if it persists...

If you happen to be at a tournament that I run, don't be around my tournament headquarters at 7:00 to 7:15 am on Sunday mornings, unless you want to hear or be a part of a devotional. It has worked well at every event I have run in the last 25 years and I have not heard any complaints yet. :D



Isn't Christianity known for burning heritics and non-believers at the stake? :D

Isn't Christianity known for burning heritics and non-believers at the stake? :D



Isn't mankind in general known for destroying the earth???

Aren't Satan's followers known for sacrificing lives???

Aren't political figures known for lying???

Aren't disc golfers known for being hippies and getting high???

Don't matches start forest fires???



How many more do you want to hear????

Any of these statements can be made, but that does not make any of them true as far as the statement relates to any person or thing in particular that is in that category.

What is your point?

I mean everyone has an #$*&$!hole, but does that make everyone an #$*&$!hole? :D

Isn't Christianity known for burning heritics and non-believers at the stake? :D



Isn't mankind in general known for destroying the earth???

Aren't Satan's followers known for sacrificing lives???

Aren't political figures known for lying???

Aren't disc golfers known for being hippies and getting high???

Don't matches start forest fires???



How many more do you want to hear????

Any of these statements can be made, but that does not make any of them true as far as the statement relates to any person or thing in particular that is in that category.

What is your point?

I mean everyone has an #$*&$!hole, but does that make everyone an #$*&$!hole? :D



If you have to explain a joke then it's just not funny enough. I'll try harder next time.

BTW - I think those are all true, with the exception of the Satan's followers sacrificing lives thing. I've been hearing about Satanism sacrifices all my life but I've yet to see or hear of one, anywhere, even documented in history (not that somewhere some time it hasn't happened, just not in any concerted fashion). On the other hand, a lot of poor schmucks have died in the name of religion and at the hands of the religious.

BTW - I've yet to hear of any real formalized Satan worship either, but it certainly does scare a lot of people. :D

If any group wants to gather for a quick prayer before an event, I'd rather it were distanced from the course or tourney HQ a bit.
Perhaps if it were held in the parking lot, well before the players' meeting, I think I would feel better.

At a sanctioned event, players come to play competitive disc golf - not to worship, not to pray, and certainly not to watch others worship or pray. It is distracting, both spiritually and socially.

Again - I'm not against individuals professing their beliefs publicly or even praying for avionic guidance. :D Just don't do it around me please.

For the record: One non-sanctioned event I ran was on September 12, 2001, the day after the terrorist attacks on the U.S..
At the very beginning of the players' meeting, I asked for 30 seconds of silence. I said that the silent time could be used for prayer or whatever each player thought was appropriate. This was a very special circumstance (more patriotic than religious) and nobody complained.

I'm beginning to feel sorry for iterating my "anyone can pray in school" story, even though it is true. We should really not let this thread get hijacked in a negative way.

I understand the defensiveness a nonbeliever can sometimes feel in the face of jerks like Pat Robertson, Jerry Falwell, and Charles Dobson. But those guys don't play disc golf, they use the beliefs of others to gain power and make money, neither of which disc golfers in general are particularly good at.

My bet is that the average disc golfing Christian is a hardworking volunteer who has deep feelings and is not unusually bigoted about other beliefs, or nonbeliefs.

Anything, including a "chapel" before events, that makes the experience of a tournament better for some players, without diminishing the experience for others, should be a good thing.

Tolerance works both ways, and scientists are beginning to understand more about why religious faith exists in humans (http://www.nytimes.com/2007/03/04/magazine/04evolution.t.html?em&ex=1174190400&en=bdca3906c88 6d1cb&ei=5070), something I have always been deeply curious about. When the folks I was playing with in Kentucky paused briefly at that huge, old oak tree for a quick prayer, it did feel a little like an imposition to me, at the time. On the other hand, (a) it was their course, not mine and (b) as a result, I can still close my eyes and visualize that beautiful setting with precision. I wish I had more permanent visual memories like that one.

A long time disc golf friend and Decon at his church asked me if he could say a prayer before the start of the rules meeting. I had no problem with it and we did it at several tournaments before he had to step back from disc golf.

I personally had no one complain, however several golfer came up to me and thanked me.

I found out after the tournament that there were some discussions on the course about it. It was the first time anyone had seen it done.

The only reason it stopped was because no one has come up to me and asked to do it again.

I have no problem with it.

As it is, we loose several players for 2 day tournaments because they don't/can't miss church. I have several players that my tournament is the only 2 day tournament they ever play.

I personally do no participate in the prayer. I just stand there and wait till he was done. I don't care either way. But to some it means a lot.

As far as on Sundays, post a time and place on the tournament thread and see who all shows up. I think you will be supprised at your turnout. (no, not everyone will show up, but more than most posters here think will)

If any group wants to gather for a quick prayer before an event, I'd rather it were distanced from the course or tourney HQ a bit.
Perhaps if it were held in the parking lot, well before the players' meeting, I think I would feel better.

At a sanctioned event, players come to play competitive disc golf - not to worship, not to pray, and certainly not to watch others worship or pray. It is distracting, both spiritually and socially.


WORD!

Do what you want on your own time. Since praying at a public park probably isn't against the law (it might be if you don't have a permit, depending on how many people are gathered), then it is no big deal to head off to area out of the fairway and away from tourney central to do it.

I just want disc golf to be inclusive of all who want to disc golf. I would hate to see an interested casual player head towards tourney central for more info about what the heck is going on, only to find a prayer meeting that they are not the least bit interested in, and then have that new person draw the conclusion that it is a religious event and miss out on organized disc golf for a while. (I figure they'll eventually find us if they are really interested, but why make them wait?)

Does that make sense?

Thank you Pizza God, you turned on a light bulb for me.. Disc Golf seems to value amenities for tournaments. Tournaments can have a host of amenities from bathrooms, to water, to bands, to free lunches, to camping, to great player packets, to player parties. The more amenities....the more players you could reach. Players do not have to participate in all the amenities, but the more amenities you have....the more players you could reach. So, with that in mind, a person could come up with a "Walking the Narrow Road thru the Wide World of Disc Golf" devotional, designed as just another amentiy, to reach those who normally go to church on Sunday. My original goal was to see if there would be many who would attend if they had a chance. (and if it was located in a quiet place, away from T-central, and non-mandatory) and ok'd by the host tournament.

A couple of things:

1) A chapel is a building where Christian worship occurs. The assumptions that this was for Christian worship isn't illogical. Nor was the assumption that the original post wanted to set up a structure for Christian worship. As a regular abuser of the English language I'm hardly one to complain, but in this case...



definition of chapel found here (http://www.brainyquote.com/words/ch/chapel142857.html) note particularly that it can taken in a broad-minded sense to be a place of worship (hence my comments that to me the earth itself is a chapel and designating a particular place as a chapel is gilding the lily)

Chapel

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
A subordinate place of worship

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
a small church, often a private foundation, as for a memorial

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
a small building attached to a church

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
a room or recess in a church, containing an altar.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
A place of worship not connected with a church; as, the chapel of a palace, hospital, or prison.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
In England, a place of worship used by dissenters from the Established Church; a meetinghouse.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
A choir of singers, or an orchestra, attached to the court of a prince or nobleman.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
A printing office, said to be so called because printing was first carried on in England in a chapel near Westminster Abbey.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
An association of workmen in a printing office.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
To deposit or inter in a chapel; to enshrine.

As it is, we loose several players for 2 day tournaments because they don't/can't miss church. I have several players that my tournament is the only 2 day tournament they ever play.



That is an excellent point.
Perhaps TDs who are interested and willing can post where local church services might be offered for travelling players. That would be a great piece of info for those who don't like to miss church.
Of course, then the TD should have info on Catholic, Lutheran, Buddhist, etc., services available to any player who asks. This might be important when tourneys are played on holidays like Easter or the Solstice.

Still, I think it might be better simply to keep organized religion away from any sanctioned event.

The only instance of "place of worship" in that list refers an area set aside within a building not connected with a church; as, the chapel of a palace, hospital, or prison.

If any group wants to gather for a quick prayer before an event, I'd rather it were distanced from the course or tourney HQ a bit.
Perhaps if it were held in the parking lot, well before the players' meeting, I think I would feel better.

At a sanctioned event, players come to play competitive disc golf - not to worship, not to pray, and certainly not to watch others worship or pray. It is distracting, both spiritually and socially.


WORD!

Do what you want on your own time. Since praying at a public park probably isn't against the law (it might be if you don't have a permit, depending on how many people are gathered), then it is no big deal to head off to area out of the fairway and away from tourney central to do it.

I just want disc golf to be inclusive of all who want to disc golf. I would hate to see an interested casual player head towards tourney central for more info about what the heck is going on, only to find a prayer meeting that they are not the least bit interested in, and then have that new person draw the conclusion that it is a religious event and miss out on organized disc golf for a while. (I figure they'll eventually find us if they are really interested, but why make them wait?)

Does that make sense?


No.

It makes sense to me, Rhett.

I've got absolutely no problem if anyone prays near or far from me on their own or as a group, as long as it doesn't have the appearance of being an official part of the tournament. I do agree that a non-believing newbie that walks into what appears to be a religious tournament may be offended and may not come back. They may not tell anyone that they were offended either for fear of being labelled insensitive. The absence of any complaints to the TD after a pre-round prayer does not prove that no one was offended.

There's nothing stopping "Disc Golfers for Christ/Buddha/Muhammad/L. Ron Hubbard, etc." from putting up a banner by someone's van and then planning to meet by the big oak tree fifteen minutes prior to the player's meeting for a prayer.

Why do we want to make finding an official time/place for prayer groups a TD's job? Shouldn't they be focused on getting drinking water on the course, assigning spotters to holes, verifying current PDGA dues and appropriate divisions, setting out CTP flags, arranging the board, collecting ace pool money, verifying that the lunch order is working, etc., etc.

It makes sense to me, Rhett.

I've got absolutely no problem if anyone prays near or far from me on their own or as a group, as long as it doesn't have the appearance of being an official part of the tournament. I do agree that a non-believing newbie that walks into what appears to be a religious tournament may be offended and may not come back. They may not tell anyone that they were offended either for fear of being labelled insensitive. The absence of any complaints to the TD after a pre-round prayer does not prove that no one was offended.

There's nothing stopping "Disc Golfers for Christ/Buddha/Muhammad/L. Ron Hubbard, etc." from putting up a banner by someone's van and then planning to meet by the big oak tree fifteen minutes prior to the player's meeting for a prayer.

Why do we want to make finding an official time/place for prayer groups a TD's job? Shouldn't they be focused on getting drinking water on the course, assigning spotters to holes, verifying current PDGA dues and appropriate divisions, setting out CTP flags, arranging the board, collecting ace pool money, verifying that the lunch order is working, etc., etc.

Please explain where you got this idea from.

Why do we want to make finding an official time/place for prayer groups a TD's job? Shouldn't they be focused on getting drinking water on the course, assigning spotters to holes, verifying current PDGA dues and appropriate divisions, setting out CTP flags, arranging the board, collecting ace pool money, verifying that the lunch order is working, etc., etc.

Please explain where you got this idea from.



By running events. I admit it wasn't an exhaustive list of duties. If you like I can elaborate on other details such as soliciting sponsorship, calculating payout, and explaining to people on the phone why I shouldn't hold up the start of the tournament just for them even if their car did break down.

Why do we want to make finding an official time/place for prayer groups a TD's job? Shouldn't they be focused on getting drinking water on the course, assigning spotters to holes, verifying current PDGA dues and appropriate divisions, setting out CTP flags, arranging the board, collecting ace pool money, verifying that the lunch order is working, etc., etc.

Please explain where you got this idea from.



By running events. I admit it wasn't an exhaustive list of duties. If you like I can elaborate on other details such as soliciting sponsorship, calculating payout, and explaining to people on the phone why I shouldn't hold up the start of the tournament just for them even if their car did break down.



I meant, where did you get the idea that this would be a TD's job?

...and also enjoy the fellowship with each other.





I'd like to hear more about this "fellowship." (http://embruns.net/images/gp-2005/#$*&$!-pride-2005-68.jpg)

...and also enjoy the fellowship with each other.





I'd like to hear more about this "fellowship." (http://embruns.net/images/gp-2005/#$*&$!-pride-2005-68.jpg)



fellowship The Oxford Pocket Thesaurus of Current English ... fellowship � noun 1. join the club for fellowship synonyms : companionship, companionability, sociability, comradeship, fraternization, camaraderie, friendship, amiability, amity, affability, geniality, kindliness, cordiality, intimacy, social intercourse; inf. chumminess.

fellowship The Oxford Pocket Dictionary of Current English ... fel�low�ship / ˈfelōˌ sh ip / � n. 1. friendly association, esp. with people who share one's interests: they valued fun and good fellowship as the cement of the community. ∎ a group of people meeting to pursue a shared interest or aim. 2. an endowment ..

There are 2 definitions in current modern english, which many folks on this board appear not to understand... or should I say they would like to rewrite definitions for there own purpose? :D

I meant, where did you get the idea that this would be a TD's job?



It seems that maybe you would want people to know ahead of time there will be this opportunity. How will people attending Joe's tourney know there will be a service held before the rounds ? One can reasonably assume that you are looking for Joe to include it somehow in his tourney flyers or whatever.

There are at least two down-sides to this. 1) Joe is now also "advertising" a church service when he's really just trying to run a DG event. Maybe he's cool with that, but . . . maybe not. 2) PDGA is now associated with appearing to sanction this service. If PDGA sanctions the tourney and the service is on the flyer, then PDGA is arguably supporting or sanctioning this service.

There's nobody stopping you from having a little pray-in before you throw a round of discs. Stand at the pavillion or in the parking lot and in your biggest "Convert Em' All" voice, call the flock to matins. But for His sake don't wait for someone to give you their blessing to do so.

Pray, pray, pray ! It might do some good. But, why would you care what someone else thinks about it? Don't wait for someone else to do it for you. Jesus would be rolling over in his grave, if it weren't mysteriously empty, from this lack of initiative on your part to express your love for him :)

Talk - Action = 0

fellowship The Oxford Pocket Thesaurus of Current English ... fellowship � noun 1. join the club for fellowship synonyms : companionship, companionability, sociability, comradeship, fraternization, camaraderie, friendship, amiability, amity, affability, geniality, kindliness, cordiality, intimacy, social intercourse; inf. chumminess.

fellowship The Oxford Pocket Dictionary of Current English ... fel�low�ship / ˈfelōˌ sh ip / � n. 1. friendly association, esp. with people who share one's interests: they valued fun and good fellowship as the cement of the community. ∎ a group of people meeting to pursue a shared interest or aim. 2. an endowment ..

There are 2 definitions in current modern english, which many folks on this board appear not to understand... or should I say they would like to rewrite definitions for there own purpose? :D



speaking of definitions, here is a definition of prayer that i find worth sharing:



Pray, v. To ask that the laws of the universe be annulled in behalf of a single petitioner confessedly unworthy.
~ Ambrose Bierce



i find such ^ moxy ^ both admirable and curious ;)

i have no problem with people getting together to pray or gather in a chapel whenever they like. why the poll asked for oppositional voices to weigh in rather than simply guaging interest -- i'm not sure.

it does seem like two-faced politiicians love to create persecution complexes in groups whose votes they seek to win. first you convince them into an "us against them" mentality then you put your opponent as a "them" and yourself as an "us"

NeoCons court that tactic when they bring up homosexual marriage, abortion, school prayer, etc -- issues that they piggyback to get them in office in order to exploit their real economic agendas -- under the cover of being "good moral men who support christian values" ... the whole "they're attacking Christmas" seems to be just such a manufactured issue. a far bigger attack on Christmas is the economic exploitation of this religious holiday -- but interestingly the politicians are comparatively silent about that /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

btw, Felix Sung, aka: fore, i would love to hear you weigh in on this issue as a Christian. i know the policy of members-only posting forced you to abstain on principle, but i would be happy to post your thoughts on this topic if you email them to me... while i didn't necessarily always agree with you -- i found your posts refreshingly informative, intelligent, and considerate.

I meant, where did you get the idea that this would be a TD's job?



It seems that maybe you would want people to know ahead of time there will be this opportunity. How will people attending Joe's tourney know there will be a service held before the rounds ? One can reasonably assume that you are looking for Joe to include it somehow in his tourney flyers or whatever.

There are at least two down-sides to this. 1) Joe is now also "advertising" a church service when he's really just trying to run a DG event. Maybe he's cool with that, but . . . maybe not. 2) PDGA is now associated with appearing to sanction this service. If PDGA sanctions the tourney and the service is on the flyer, then PDGA is arguably supporting or sanctioning this service.

There's nobody stopping you from having a little pray-in before you throw a round of discs. Stand at the pavillion or in the parking lot and in your biggest "Convert Em' All" voice, call the flock to matins. But for His sake don't wait for someone to give you their blessing to do so.

Pray, pray, pray ! It might do some good. But, why would you care what someone else thinks about it? Don't wait for someone else to do it for you. Jesus would be rolling over in his grave, if it weren't mysteriously empty, from this lack of initiative on your part to express your love for him :)

Talk - Action = 0

Whenever you assume, you make an #$*&$! yada yada yada. BTW, the Holy Rollers aren't asking for permission (thanks for your blessing anyway), they are looking to see if there is interest out there. And heaven forbid people start associating a tourney with a religious event instead of Woodstock.

heaven forbid people start associating a tourney with a religious event instead of Woodstock.



I'll bet Jesus would have been one great disc golfer -- didn't He hang out with non-conformists? :eek: :D

He might challenge am. baggers: "what profit it a player to gain the world [championship] -- but lose his soul?" ;)

Pray, pray, pray ! It might do some good. But, why would you care what someone else thinks about it? Don't wait for someone else to do it for you. Jesus would be rolling over in his grave, if it weren't mysteriously empty, from this lack of initiative on your part to express your love for him :)

Talk - Action = 0

Whenever you assume, you make an #$*&$! yada yada yada. BTW, the Holy Rollers aren't asking for permission (thanks for your blessing anyway), they are looking to see if there is interest out there. And heaven forbid people start associating a tourney with a religious event instead of Woodstock.



The Holy Rollers ?!? Maybe you ought to copyright that before it's usurped :)

If you want permission then you have to ask for it. You didn't ask and I didn't give, nor is it my place to. If you want my blessing, I doubt you'll get it. But nice try.

Again, why do you care if there's an interest ? If you've got a calling, (and I see you have a catchy name, so...) spread the word, brother !

I think however maybe you are another sufferer of the ever more common "persecuted christian complex". Why else would you ask if people are, as your poll states, "strongly opposed" to interest in a chapel service ? My assumptions might yadda yadda you, but I stand by them. Why come here and ask if people are opposed to something if you're just trying to gauge interest ? You sure make it look as if you want a fight.

Yes, please. I pray that heaven forbid people to start associating a DG tournament with a religious event, except for those people who choose to associate life, the universe and everything with religious feelings. Amen.

Up the holy rollers !

There is no god and your ASSumptions suck.

huh?

huh?



urp

Up the holy rollers !



My favorite Holy Roller:

Kindergarten teacher by day, roller derby captain by night:
Sister Mary Jane!
http://www.toromagazine.ca/images/34GCrf00lE.jpg

The three best things in Texas:
1) John Houck
2) ZZ Top
3) Roller Derby

and look at her jersey number.. you didnt get that frame grab from espn did you? :D

is she going to be attending the chapel gatherings, and if so can i re-vote? :eek: :o;)

all i know is that, without any doubt, going to the roller derby was the best $10 i've ever spent on entertainment:

you get to rub elbows with austin's hippest, punk rock bands play before the match and at intermission, the announcers are funny as hell, the opposing team had a fan on a norton motorcycle that reved up the bike everytime they "jammed", girl fights (some fake, some real), and the outfits!

. . . and if you get there really early you can get a seat in "spankers alley".

I think it would be an interesting experiment. One could compare the scores of those in attendance at prayer meeting with those not in attendance to measure the impact of God on one's disc golf game with high precision using PDGA player ratings. In the end we could give God itself a player rating or at least a handicap factor.

Similarly, if we pray to different God's we can (through the use of results,) determine who is the one true God of disc golf, or at least who the true God wishes us to think is the true God of disc golf

Second, it would give us all the opportunity to distinguish who exactly is in the prayer meeting and who might just be going to he!!. This is valuable knowledge for a disc golf tournament in so much as we will be able to divide disc golfers into 4 distinct categories. There would be (1) those who are better than you because they are holier than thou. There would be (2) those that are better than you because they have sold their soul to the Devil to be better disc golf players (3) those that are worse than you because they did not attend the prayer meeting, and (4) those that are worse than you but are very holy because God is testing and teaching them, and God never tests one more than they can handle.

because God is testing and teaching them, and God never tests one more than they can handle.



by that same logic, God evidently has a lot more faith in us than i since He has obviously sent you here to this very thread in order to test us and therefore evidently ascertains that we can handle it ... /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

I think it would be an interesting experiment. One could compare the scores of those in attendance at prayer meeting with those not in attendance to measure the impact of God on one's disc golf game with high precision using PDGA player ratings. In the end we could give God itself a player rating or at least a handicap factor.

Similarly, if we pray to different God's we can (through the use of results,) determine who is the one true God of disc golf, or at least who the true God wishes us to think is the true God of disc golf

Second, it would give us all the opportunity to distinguish who exactly is in the prayer meeting and who might just be going to he!!. This is valuable knowledge for a disc golf tournament in so much as we will be able to divide disc golfers into 4 distinct categories. There would be (1) those who are better than you because they are holier than thou. There would be (2) those that are better than you because they have sold their soul to the Devil to be better disc golf players (3) those that are worse than you because they did not attend the prayer meeting, and (4) those that are worse than you but are very holy because God is testing and teaching them, and God never tests one more than they can handle.



Sounds like a new divisional structure in the making. Could we fit them into this plan?

http://publish.hometown.aol.com/ck34/images/pdga%20div%20tree.jpg