We just had our local yearly tournament and we put in some alternate pins. One pin was located about 5 feet off water that is OB. For the Advanced group, this hole was our CTP. Although I don't think it happened, the discussion came up, "what if the disc was OB, would it still get measured for the CTP?" We had no clue and we were wondering if this has ever happened before and what the "official ruling" was.

We just had our local yearly tournament and we put in some alternate pins. One pin was located about 5 feet off water that is OB. For the Advanced group, this hole was our CTP. Although I don't think it happened, the discussion came up, "what if the disc was OB, would it still get measured for the CTP?" We had no clue and we were wondering if this has ever happened before and what the "official ruling" was.



No it doesn't count, the disc in question is out of play.

I had the same dilemma a couple of weeks ago in league doubles when some thick shule caused the team to decide to pick up the CTP & play the cleaner, farther putt. We let the CTP stand & put the flag in the schmutz.

My college course was actually on the universties property, but we still ran doubles out there.

Hole one was 270 foot anny with a fence right beside the basket. If your shot stalled, it would be ob, but a tap in three. (In fact in an intramural tournament once they said there was no OB and my shot stalled and went over the fence and I had an easy birdie).

Anyway, one night at doubles, there was a tie between the last teams, so a CTP throwoff for last cash happened. Both teams had a partner leave, so it was down to a guy named Keith and Scotty Faison. Keith steps up and throws a great shot, but got that stall, and landed about 15 feet from the pin, OB.

Scotty, who ran the doubles, drops the disc right in front of him and yells "bring it in!"

Just one of my favorite moments in disc golf. I laughed for about 5 min.

Think of it this way - after your shot goes OB and you mark your lie with 1M relief, your mark is lying 3. CTP's go to the discs lying 2.

But, if you want to be technical about it, CTP means Closest To Pin. It's not CTPF2. The players aren't putting their next shot, so OB status is moot.

Ahh..one of my favorite moments from running doubles. :)

But, if you want to be technical about it, CTP means Closest To Pin. It's not CTPF2. The players aren't putting their next shot, so OB status is moot.


If your disc is OB, then you don't have a lie. AKA, an OB disc is infinitely far away from the basket. Once you've determined the place to "take your drop", you'll lie 2.

[stirring the pot]But you don't need a lie. You just have to be closer than everyone else.[/stirring the pot]

Here's another scenario for you. Say player A throws to 3' from the basket. Player B throws into a tree 50' directly above the basket (assume 2m rule is off). Player A is physically closer to the basket. But Player B's lie is directly under the basket. Who wins?

I say it counts!

Its measured from the lie, not where the disc came to rest. So for whatever reason, if your lie is closest to the pin, you win! just my viewpoint i guess, but its how we do out here in Oregon.

Think of it this way - after your shot goes OB and you mark your lie with 1M relief, your mark is lying 3. CTP's go to the discs lying 2.



Says who? I whought it was closest after one throw?

[stirring the pot]But you don't need a lie. You just have to be closer than everyone else.[/stirring the pot]

Here's another scenario for you. Say player A throws to 3' from the basket. Player B throws into a tree 50' directly above the basket (assume 2m rule is off). Player A is physically closer to the basket. But Player B's lie is directly under the basket. Who wins?


That's an excellent point. If you go under my analysis, then the player B would win the CTP. That seems counter-intuitive, but they should win because they've got the drop-in putt, but it's a fine example of a hole that may have been designed well under the old rule, but now isn't. Either the basket should be moved or the 2m rule should apply to that tree. I know there's a lot of resistance (for good reason) to having some trees have 2m and others not, so I'd be more inclined to move the basket. (or you could just leave that hypothetical basket under the hypothetical tree and let hypothetical players crash into the tree all h-day long for drop-in's)

as to the point in question, it sounds like TD's need to specify on CTP holes that OB doesn't count, as ball golf tournaments have CTP's (must be on green) and long drives (must be in fairway).

It seems to me that no matter what the circumstances a person shouldnt be rewarded for throwing out of bounds. I would like to know what the official ruling is on this from a PDGA rep. But my sense of sportsmanship is telling me NO you cant go OB and win a CTP.

just my 2 cent's

There is no PDGA position. Seems to me if you just say "CTP" in a throw off, it makes no difference if the shot is inbounds as long as it's accurately measurable. It's the disc closest to the pin (including suspended even if 2m in play) since you are rewarding 'accuracy' like darts, not 'score' as in actually playing. If the shot lands in a pond or busy street, then it loses assuming the other player(s) are IB. From a practical standpoint, I would never use a hole with close OB as the CTP hole in the first place, especially if the hole favors lefty/righty fore/backhand. The TD should say "closest to the pin inbounds" to remove any doubt.

Think of it this way - after your shot goes OB and you mark your lie with 1M relief, your mark is lying 3. CTP's go to the discs lying 2.



Says who? I whought it was closest after one throw?




Come on Jake. You know that crap wouldn't fly around here. OB means you're out, now get off the box, next person's turn. :o

There is no PDGA position. Seems to me if you just say "CTP" in a throw off, it makes no difference if the shot is inbounds as long as it's accurately measurable. It's the disc closest to the pin (including suspended even if 2m in play) since you are rewarding 'accuracy' like darts, not 'score' as in actually playing. If the shot lands in a pond or busy street, then it loses assuming the other player(s) are IB. From a practical standpoint, I would never use a hole with close OB as the CTP hole in the first place, especially if the hole favors lefty/righty fore/backhand. The TD should say "closest to the pin inbounds" to remove any doubt.



ThankYou, Chuck

We use a hole with very close OB for our league tiebreaker. OB doesnt count. You have to make the deuce to win.

There is nothing in the rules about ancillary contests (it's not during sanctioned play), so really, anything goes. It's up to the TD to clarify what counts and what doesn't.

How about this for a scenario...it happened in a tournament I played, and I believe the TD just gave prizes to both guys to make them happy. CTP on the hole, with a fence running alongside the fairway. First guy throws lands a shot, say, 15 feet from the hole. Second guy lands a shot against the fence, which is 17 feet from the hole, but by having the 1m relief, his putt will actually be closer. Who would rightfully be entitled?

How about this for a scenario...it happened in a tournament I played, and I believe the TD just gave prizes to both guys to make them happy. CTP on the hole, with a fence running alongside the fairway. First guy throws lands a shot, say, 15 feet from the hole. Second guy lands a shot against the fence, which is 17 feet from the hole, but by having the 1m relief, his putt will actually be closer. Who would rightfully be entitled?



The guy that was carefull enough to keep it in bounds. IMO.

If it's not OB on the other side of the fence, there's no 1m relief. Even if a player is allowed 1m relief from OB, the rules only require that there's enough room for the player to take an IB stance, so a whole 1m isn't required to be given. IB shots near OB should not get any relief because you're not playing the hole, just throwing a 'dart' to see who's closest.

CTP is an accuracy contest, not a golf contest. The only criteria that should matter is straight distance from the basket. The rules of disc golf should not come into play.

I had the same dilemma a couple of weeks ago in league doubles when some thick shule caused the team to decide to pick up the CTP & play the cleaner, farther putt. We let the CTP stand & put the flag in the schmutz.



This doesn't feel right.
:confused:

Why not? CTP doesn't mean "Most Playable Lie" it just has to be closest.

But, if you want to be technical about it, CTP means Closest To Pin. It's not CTPF2. The players aren't putting their next shot, so OB status is moot.





If you want to be technical about it, CTP are drives that are the following:

1) Your first shot/drive off the tee
2) In Play (not out of bounds)
3) Closest ( no one else got closer)

Non of the other rules should matter, ie relief ect... It is a measurement from the pin to the leading edge of the disc where it landed after the drive.....

If you want to be technical about it, CTP are drives that are the following:

1) Your first shot/drive off the tee
2) In Play (not out of bounds)
3) Closest ( no one else got closer)

Non of the other rules should matter, ie relief ect... It is a measurement from the pin to the leading edge of the disc where it landed after the drive.....



While I agree with your three points, the words "If you want to be technical about it" imply that there's some sort of established, preferrably written, standard. We've already established that there isn't. It's basically a TD free-for-all with any sort of rules/remedy that they see fit including giving two players each a prize to avoid having to listen to grown men cry about it not being fair that they didn't receive a $15 (retail cost, actual cost of materials, about $1) piece of plastic. They could also invoke the "I'll throw this disc in the lake and whichever of your drunk mugs doesn't drown in the process can keep the prize" rule.

hahaha,yes, that way I can make also up a few rules....but it feels weird and also a little bit like talking to kids.
Steve, is this the way you guys play overthere?
Maybe this was a weekly?because your arguments would never fly in a Pro event....

[quote
If you want to be technical about it, CTP are drives that are the following:

1) Your first shot/drive off the tee
2) In Play (not out of bounds)
3) Closest ( no one else got closer)

Non of the other rules should matter, ie relief ect... It is a measurement from the pin to the leading edge of the disc where it landed after the drive.....

[/QUOTE]

You are clearly making up rules as you go. :confused:

Be quite Jake!

Be quite Jake!



How does someone be quite?

I dunno....southern comfort is starting kick in

Good thread...I was in a CTP at the Mid-America Open and threw the closest to pin, but was OB. When I asked the TD about it he thought for a few seconds and then said the shot didn't count because it was OB. I kinda like the dart theory. Whoever has the closest shot after the first shot wins....regardless of whether it is IB or OB.