This is a list of courses that you could get to within 30 minutes from TU. I have them listed from easiest to hardest. Feel free to rearrange this as you see fit.

1) WestPort
2) Chandler
3) Reed
4) Riverside
5) Mac Taylor
6) McClure
7) Ray Brown - Whites
8) Hunter
9) Dovillio
10) Copperhead Canyon
11) WhiteHawk
12) Kelly Lane
13) RedHawk
14) Haikey
15) BlackHawk

What do you think? I see a couple that could be argued up or down on the list.

THIS IS MY ORDER OF DIFFICULTY
ADDING ONE TO THE LIST, JUST A LITTLE OUT OF YOUR 30 MIN RANGE BUT WELL WORTH THE GAME.

1) WestPort
2) Chandler
3) Riverside
4) Reed
6) McClure
7) Dovillio
8) Hunter
9) Ray Brown � Whites
10) Haikey
11) Mac Taylor (BLUE)
12) Copperhead Canyon
13) WhiteHawk
14) RedHawk
15) BlackHawk
15A) THE LODGE

I knew people would want to change it up a little but if you expand the circle to one hour from TU you would then have to include:

Muskogee
Okmulgee
Bartlesville
Pawhuska

I might give it to you right now that Pawhuska it tougher than BlackHawk but once it is on a level playing field as far as tee boxes then BlackHawk becomes the harder course again.

You also get real close to adding Boomer and Hoyt Grove to that list - which if anyone has read the Stillwater Classic thread - I feel that Hoyt Grove is now the best course in Stillwater.

1)Westport- though I have never actually played it.
2)Reed
3)Riverside tied with Chandler
4)Smack Taylor
5)Kelly Lane
6)McClure
7)Hunter
8)Dovillio
9)Haikey
10)White Hawk
11)Red Hawk
12)Copperhead Canyon
13)Blackhawk

I don't count Ray Brown anymore.....it only has one basket and will be completely different if/when it is reinstalled....

And that is how I see it....

You also get real close to adding Boomer and Hoyt Grove to that list - which if anyone has read the Stillwater Classic thread - I feel that Hoyt Grove is now the best course in Stillwater.



And enough of this bull....Boomer is better.

It gets a bad rap because:

1)It is rarely mowed.
2)The tee boxes are old and eroded to a point of a safety hazard....
3)Since no one in that town does anything for the courses besides 1/4 of the disc golfers who live there (fractions for stillwater players are easy since there is only 4 of them)
4)The tee signs are old and some are missing...we haven't wanted to get all into replacing them because they are some kids Eagle scout project out there and I dont want to scrap them...

5)Its a long course and usually very windy so people are afraid of it. i.e. if there are 35 mph winds outside are you playing Dovillio? or Blackhawk? You play Blackhawk for the tree protection....

As far as which course will better prepare you for Okie golf...the choice is clear...

I'll rate them by my personal best score at each course

1)Westport- Played the course 6 times and have aced hole 5 Three of those times
2)Chandler Only course I have ever shot -18
3)Riverside (PB) -16
4a)Reed (PB) -15
4b)Sooner (PB) -15
6)Smack Taylor (PB) -14
7a)McClure (PB) -13
7b)Hunter (PB) -13
9)Dovillio (PB) -12
10)White Hawk (PB) -11
11a)Copperhead Canyon (PB) -10
11b)Kelly Lane (PB) -10
11c)Ray Brown middle tees(PB) -10
14)Red Hawk (PB) -8
15a)Haikey (PB) -6
15b)tHe LoDgE (PB) -6
17)BlackHawk (PB) -5

You also get real close to adding Boomer and Hoyt Grove to that list - which if anyone has read the Stillwater Classic thread - I feel that Hoyt Grove is now the best course in Stillwater.



And enough of this bull....Boomer is better.

It gets a bad rap because:

1)It is rarely mowed.
2)The tee boxes are old and eroded to a point of a safety hazard....
3)Since no one in that town does anything for the courses besides 1/4 of the disc golfers who live there (fractions for stillwater players are easy since there is only 4 of them)
4)The tee signs are old and some are missing...we haven't wanted to get all into replacing them because they are some kids Eagle scout project out there and I dont want to scrap them...

5)Its a long course and usually very windy so people are afraid of it. i.e. if there are 35 mph winds outside are you playing Dovillio? or Blackhawk? You play Blackhawk for the tree protection....

As far as which course will better prepare you for Okie golf...the choice is clear...



Yeah, the choice is clear. Most of the newer courses being put in lately (Blackhawk, the Lodge, etc) are very technical courses. So, the obvious course to prepare you for hard, technical courses is Hoyt Grove.

Boomer is a great course and very fun to play. It actually gets mowed more ofter than Hoyt (much more often . . . I think we just got lucky before the classic ;))

It's hard to decide which course is better. It is purely a matter of opinion. I have been playing Boomer for about 10 years and it is still one of my favorites, but I have realized that there is much more to disc golf than crushing drives down a hill and huge hyzers around trees.

Andrew is right. The biggest problem in Stillwater (and always has been) is that there are not enough people who actually step up and do something. It's one thing to complain about this and that, but actually doing something about it is the only way to improve a course. If we had spent as much time out at Boomer as we did at Hoyt, Boomer would be in much better condition than Hoyt right now.

Here is my plan before next years Classic:

At least 4 new baskets at Boomer to replace the really bad ones
Fix the tee signs at Boomer (about 4 of them need some work)
Mulch around about 1/2 of the tee boxes. New tee boxes would be nice, but not yet.
Get access to more area around Hoyt Grove (two holes between 1 & 2 that will go behind the baseball field and one hole where the BMX trail used to be between holes 4 & 5.) This will allow us to combine holes 8 & 9 into one longer hole and pull out holes 10 & 11. This gives us three holes added that are not in the flood area and pulls out three holes that get flooded often.
Move Hole 1 at Hoyt to take away the Hyzer (move the tee pad up about 20 feet and the pin a little closer).
Trim one of the deadly trees on 14 that hangs out over the water. (I want to leave one of them and just cut one out).

Let me know what everyone thinks about Hoyt. I would like to hear if anyone has any suggestions. Thanks.

Gauntlet thrown and I would like to take on Andrew's position that Boomer is better.

Andrew listed several items to hold against Boomer which none of those go into me holding the position that Hoyt is better. I will list real simple like why I think Hoyt is better - "SHOT SELECTION".

When I play Boomer I throw 12 hyzers, 2 straight-hyzers (Hole 6 and 7), 2 rollers and 2 anhyzers.

When I play Hoyt I throw 4 hyzers, 1 straight-hyzer, 3 straight, 6 rollers and 1 side-arm.

I throw rollers because I like them and they are easy on my back so the places where I have rollers others would probably be throwing and anhyzer.

Don't get me wrong I still like Boomer. I probably think hole 14 is one of the 10 best holes in Oklahoma and possibly top 5. I just think that Hoyt Grove is a better shot makers course now then what Boomer is. I also thinks there are things that Hoyt can improve on but it is only three years and two months old.

That is why I like Hoyt better and which has nothing to do with the 5 items you listed above.

Hoyt Gove improvements:

All the things you listed plus try to make a better natural tee pad for hole #7. That is a very technical hole that players do not want to be worried about footing when trying to throw such an accurate shot down by the water. Maybe just level it out some.

Thanks for the feedback Jose. I agree about hole 7. I would like to move the hole 8 tee out of the way of hole 7's fairway also. If we get the additional land and I can combine holes 8&9 and skip holes 10&11, hole 8 is likely to be one heck of a hole.

I think next year the path and across will be safe on the whole course. There are enough problems with OB in the water on some of the other holes.

Regarding Boomer. If we could get tee pads like Mowhawks, tee signs like the Lodge, and brand new baskets . . . . . WOW what a course.

I think Stillwater is lucky because they have 2 very distinct courses to choose from. If you like throwing booming hyzers and big rollers Boomer is your place. If you like technical shots with less forgiving holes Hoyt is the track to play. I didn't get to play them this year but I think they both have qualities over each other, and they both need minor work in some areas.

Stillwater golf is unique in the fact you get two very different courses to play. Keep up the good work guys, if it were not for a small crew of guys doing the work there would not be a stillwater classic.

Here is my order:

1) Westport
2) Chandler
3) Riverside
4) Mack Taylor
5) Reed
6) McClure
7) Ray Brown
8) Dovillio
9) Hunter
10) Haikey
11) Kelly Lane
12) RedHawk
13) WhiteHawk
14) CopperHead (i thought we were going to pull this course?)
15) BlackHawk

True - Boomer and Hoyt are great compliments to each other, which makes for a great Stillwater Classic. Two courses that are very different, 10 minutes apart and with plenty of things to do in Stillwater for fun.

Getting new tee pads and baskets at Boomer would make Boomer better but I would still throw 12 to 14 hyzers.

CopperHead - I had not heard about pulling the course. I wish it was playable.

Speaking of courses does anyone have any leads on possible locations for a new course?

Speaking of courses does anyone have any leads on possible locations for a new course?



I do. There is a park near 21st and I-44 right next to the Apartments with the big lake.

It is pretty open but it has elevation and a large body of water. The park is rarely used, I take my dog out there every now and then. You could probably put 18 out there or make it a long 9 hole couse.

Do you know who owns the land?

I believe it's a city park.

It's always empty too, every once in a while you will see a few cars out there on weekends.

That park used to be our hang out in high school. It looked way different back then, there were more woods than now and there was another pond with a creek also.

I don't know what it is called now but back then it was Rockwell Park. There isn't much out there now with what they did when they built the flood program, it became another retention pond.

The best land available right now, is between I-44 and 11th St. It is nothing but unused park, except by a very few walkers, that is reguarly mowed, has lots of water possibilities and some slight elevation. And Lots and lots of trees that over the years wil just make that place better and better.

Just enter off of 11th at mingo to the south, once you drive in, your mind will start racing at the prospect of having a course in there and the land goes from there, as far as you can see to I-44.

I'm not sure but I think that land is controlled by the Corp of Engineers.

Copperhead is being pulled??? If it is being pulled, are the people who donated baskets going to be asked about where their basket goes??? If so, I would like to see the one I donated go to Boomer. The need there is great and new baskets have been needed there for many years along with a few movements of a couple of tees and baskets. Mainly the basket for hole 11 and the tee for hole 12, to keep from having to throw over it (basket 11) and also being thrown into (tee 12) from hole 4.

according to the tulsa co. assessors data, City of Tulsa owns all that land in question from I-44 to 11th. the grey areas are the CoT land. Lots of open space there, for sure.
Park Area (http://img166.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=38624_cot_park_parcel_122_1028lo.jpg )
left alone & bored @ work = this
:cool:

Good to see you on the board graham.

CopperHead - I had not heard about pulling the course. I wish it was playable.





That's Andrew's new baby soon! We will get er back in playing condition soon ;)

Something to think about for Copperhead is that Kyle Wilkes now lives in Tulsa and he is in YMCA management. I do not know if this help of not but just a thought.

Graham - I do not think I know you but that is some good work on the map and land, did you know elections for the TDSA BOD is coming up and the ballet is wide open?

thanks man.
ive been lurking too long. now i just gotta mail that check into tdsa.
ive filled out the membership form about 3 times now and always forget to write the check and mail it off.

on topic w/ the thread (courses i've actually played)
1. Chandler
2. Reed
3. Riverside
4. Mack Taylor (sorta played it...horrible mosquitoes earlier this summer)
5. McClure
6. Hunter
7. Dovillio
8. Redhawk
9. Haikey
10. Whitehawk
11. Blackhawk

i think that covers it.

The problem with Copper Head is having to use it around the hours of the Y and thier rules of having to leave a DNA sample along with your drivers license to play.

That course will never be what it should. I judt don't think that the Y will ever be behind it as they have never offered anything towards it. But they sure show up to get players fees and sell hot dogs at any event we have there.

Kev, name one item or thing that the YMCA has done for that course.

From the people that have replied to the course difficulty rating so far, I am surprised how many people have Haikey rated as easier than WhiteHawk.

Those are the people that play the first 14 holes out there, they tend to forget about the ones in the woods. :D

Has anyone ever played the course in Talahina, OK. It looks nice from the pics.

http://www.buzzardcreekpark.com/

That course looks fun!

Gauntlet thrown and I would like to take on Andrew's position that Boomer is better.

Andrew listed several items to hold against Boomer which none of those go into me holding the position that Hoyt is better. I will list real simple like why I think Hoyt is better - "SHOT SELECTION".

When I play Boomer I throw 12 hyzers, 2 straight-hyzers (Hole 6 and 7), 2 rollers and 2 anhyzers.

When I play Hoyt I throw 4 hyzers, 1 straight-hyzer, 3 straight, 6 rollers and 1 side-arm.

I throw rollers because I like them and they are easy on my back so the places where I have rollers others would probably be throwing and anhyzer.

Don't get me wrong I still like Boomer. I probably think hole 14 is one of the 10 best holes in Oklahoma and possibly top 5. I just think that Hoyt Grove is a better shot makers course now then what Boomer is. I also thinks there are things that Hoyt can improve on but it is only three years and two months old.

That is why I like Hoyt better and which has nothing to do with the 5 items you listed above.



I throw 12 hyzers 4 anhyzers 1 flat distance rip 1 downhill distance rip at boomer....

.....but you know what Jose`? Each of those 12 hyzers are nearly completely different. There are different constraints on each shot.

Throw your hole 1 hyzer shot on hole 6. Not going to work because of the ceiling right?....they are different shots....

What I am saying is that Boomer is no pitch and putt....or rip and putt that is. It has technical attributes just like Hoyt. They may seem simpler....but they are not...

From a new players perspective I think that Hoyt would be much less intimidating than Boomer...

And with playing Boomer comes the mental toughness to conquer a course that does not play to your strengths....It is a distance course that demands finesse.

And nevermind all of the wind play knowledge it has to offer....

Hoyt Grove is tighter but it is still, generally, more about accuracy than distance. This is why I think that Tom is wrong is saying that it better suits you for Blackhawk and the Lodge....

I would say the opposite. Many of the Lodge's, as well as Blackhawk's challenges are derived from distance.

Certain shots might not be that hard (hole 16 at Black) but they are long, long, long. And you can do your little Hoyt grove hyzers all you want but you will never get a three on 16.

Why?

Tulsa's course variety is so that our easy courses focus on certain elements of the game, but our difficult courses demand a wide variety of shot making abilities.

i.e. the Blackhawk, many of those holes would be completely unimpressive is not for their length. Take hole 8 for example. A beautiful hole to be sure, but what is the challenge, the hyzer? or the distance?......the answer?

Both, but with greater emphasis on distance.
What I am saying is this, you can't play down shot selection on a course you have been playing for decades.....those lines you throw are ingrained into you, you have decided at one point or another that the shot you throw on say hole #1 at Black is your best chance at a birdie, but thats not to say there is only one way to play the hole..........

Those are the people that play the first 14 holes out there, they tend to forget about the ones in the woods. :D


.
... now that's a good point ... :cool:

I would and have never called Boomer a pitch and putt.

Still for me I would prefer to play a course that asks me to throw different shots rather than 14 versions of the same shot. It is true that each hyzer is not exactly the same but it is still a hyzer. Distance is important but yet do not forget distance while not being able to let the disc get any higher than 8 feet in the air - that is also distance. Hoyt Grove holes number 15 and 16 are distance shots in and of themselves by the fact that you have an early low ceiling but still need to fly the disc around 300 feet.

These are more reasons why I like Hoyt over Boomer. I still like Boomer but I just like Hoyt better. I cut my teeth on Boomer and learned a lot about playing the wind from Boomer.

Graham - I do not think I know you but that is some good work on the map and land, did you know elections for the TDSA BOD is coming up and the ballet is wide open?


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... :eek: ... that's true ... you should've seen Joyle Deering wearing his tutu ... ... :D

It would be interesting to see what other people think about comparing the two courses and pick a favorite between the two.

Oh yeah, this thread started as a ranking of the Tulsa courses by difficulty that are within 30 minutes of TU. So, don't just read all of you lurkers and post you list.

... ballet ...
.
... :)
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... it's pretty-rare to catch Jose in a mis-spell ... gotta take advantage ... :) ... then again , , , maybe that's why Mitchell was running-for-position a few times ... Swan Lake ... :D

That takes me out, the courts have said that I am no longer aloud to lurk any where. :o:D

It all depends on what you like. Some players like courses that require big booming drives without worrying about where your disc ends up. On most holes at Boomer you can boom drives as high as you want and no matter where your disc ends up you will most likely have an open shot at the basket. It's like an open ball golf course, you can hit an errant shot 2 fairways over but you still have a 7 iron into the green. But like I said, some people like to throw long and not have to worry about where a bad shot ends up. Not all holes at Boomer are like that bust most of them are.

Personally I prefer a course with less forgiveness, because if you throw a bad shot you pay for it with a bogey or worse. On MOST holes at Hoyt if you let go of the disc way left, right or long you could find some OB, and that's on most holes.

where is whitehawk. I haven't played in tulsa for a while and i'll be coming up I'm a few weeks and would like to try out a new course.

Also is the Lodge open all the time? you just have to pay to play?

Whitehawk is the short pads on Course BlackHawk.

I don't count Ray Brown anymore.....it only has one basket



install 18 tee pads and your problem is solved:D

True that Wayne it is ballot not ballet - my bad.

Joel Woody has played the Talahina course. We were talking about going one time but then my plans changed and I was not able to go.

I knew people would want to change it up a little but if you expand the circle to one hour from TU you would then have to include:

Muskogee
Okmulgee
Bartlesville
Pawhuska

I might give it to you right now that Pawhuska it tougher than BlackHawk but once it is on a level playing field as far as tee boxes then BlackHawk becomes the harder course again.



THEY BOTH HAVE TOUGH SHOTS (WITH OR WITHOUT TEE PADS)...AND MUSKOGEE IS BY FAR A BETTER GROOMED COURSE WITH A VARITY OF DIFFERENT SHOTS AND I WOULD PUT IT JUST BEFORE RED HAWK ON MY LIST.

my one half cent worth easiest to hardest:
1) WestPort
2) Chandler
2a) Ray Brown red tees
3) Mac Taylor
3a) Lodge red tees
4) River side
5) Reed
6) McClure
7) Ray Brown - Whites
7a) Lodge white tees
8) Hunter
8a) Ray Brown Blues
9) Dovillio
10) Copperhead Canyon
11) WhiteHawk
12) Kelly Lane
13) RedHawk
14) Haikey
15) BlackHawk
15a) Lodge blue tees

Okay - I know there are plenty of lurkers out there that have not made a comment yet on ranking the tulsa courses. Don't be shy.

It would do me no good to rank them, it all depends on who shows up to play me or my partner Leroy. :D

I can shoot a -15 or a +3 at Riverside. :o:D

� ranking the permanent 9-Holers we got in our neighborhood � #(1) as easiest � higher-the-number , tougher-the-course �
.
(1) Westport
(2) Reed
(3) Ray Brown (short tee)
(4) Mack Taylor
(5) Ray Brown (mid tee)
(6) Mack Taylor (alt. blue tees)
(7) Ray Brown (long tee)
(8) Kelly Lane
.
.
... in my opinion ... :cool:

� ranking the 18-Holers we got in our neighborhood � #(1) as easiest � higher-the-number , tougher-the-course �
.
(1) Chandler (explains the immense popularity)
(2) Riverside (deja vu � same as above)
(3) Copperhead (short tees)
(4) McClure
(5) Lodge (red tees)
(6) McClure (alt. tees)
(7) Hunter
(8) Lodge (white tees)
(9) WhiteHawk
(10) Copperhead (long tees)
(11) Dovillio
(12) RedHawk
(13) Lodge (blue tees)
(14) Haikey
(15) McClure (180-course)
(16) BlackHawk
.
.
.
... in my opinion ... :cool:
.
.
... one thing about it > Great Variety in the Disc-Golf Mecca (which is as it should be) ...

Our variety is one of our greatest assets in the Tulsa disc golf scene.

If I could ask for one thing in Tulsa disc golf that would be a course with big elevation changes - Water Works type of course. I know Copperhead is close to that but they make it too hard to play that course. I live closer to Copperhead than just about any course but Ii never go over there because of the inconvenient times.

The Lodge does have some good elevation shots from the blues.

The Lodge does have some good elevation shots from the blues.


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... true ... closest resemblance we've got to Water Works (my numero uno fave )
.
.
... some nice lookin' hunk-o'-turf in Bristow holds that potential also ... :cool:

The Lodge does have some good elevation shots from the blues.



Howdy!

2, 3, 4....some that I can remember off the top of my head...

The Lodge has some amazing holes....I love that course.

I don't feel the love like I have for Blackhawk, but I still really dig the style of gold that that course promotes...

For sure...

Well, I dont live in Tulsa but I have had the opportunity to play all but one (well, one and a half) of these courses, so I will weigh in....

1 - West Port (When I first started playing...this course seemed pretty hard. Too afraid of breaking peoples windows :D)
2 - Chandler (love the mountain...very peaceful)
3 - Ray Brown (this one in Sand Springs? It only had 9 holes when I played it)
4 - Reed
5 - Mac Taylor (this one N of Sperry? Probably my favorite 9 hole course to date)
6 - Riverside (the fun I had on this course 4 1/2 yrs ago started me down the road to getting hooked on DG)
7 - McClure
8 - Hunter (my favorite Tulsa course)
9 - Dovillio
10 - RedHawk
11 - Cooperhead Canyon (fun....the combination of elevation, length, and obstacles could really improve you game...or, make you quit :D)
12 - Haikey
13 - BlackHawk

I have not played Kelly Lane or WhiteHawk.

... they all get tougher the-older-you-get ... /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Chandler in safari golf mode.

There are no others. ;)

... I did like your analogy of " a freshly-mopped floor " ... true ...

BLACK HAWK 180?
LODGE 180 ??
ANY 180 :D

Today is my stepdaughter's 18th birthday! :)
Happy birthday Samantha!! :D

... I think that the McClure "alt.tees" plays 1 to 2 strokes more than the "normal layout" ... playing the "alt.tees" this Sunday at High Noon ...

� ranking the 18-Holers we got in our neighborhood � #(1) as easiest � higher-the-number , tougher-the-course �
.
(1) Chandler (explains the immense popularity)
(2) Riverside (deja vu � same as above)
Will Rogers
(3) Copperhead (short tees)
(4) McClure
(5) Lodge (red tees)
(6) McClure (alt. tees)
Dolese (short pins)
(7) Hunter
(8) Lodge (white tees)
(9) WhiteHawk
(10) Copperhead (long tees)
Dolese (long pins)
(11) Dovillio
(12) RedHawk
(13) Lodge (blue tees)
(14) Haikey
(15) McClure (180-course)
(16) BlackHawk
.
.
.
... in my opinion ... :cool:
.
.
... one thing about it > Great Variety in the Disc-Golf Mecca (which is as it should be) ...


.
.
... I kinda added-in the OKC Courses that will be used for the Memorial Oct, 21 , one-day tourney ...

Thanks Wayne but where would Water Works fall in that list?

yeah. and where does sapulpa fall in :confused:

It should rank high with those little dinky tee pads? :confused:

Get real buddy.

Who's idea was that? Tatoo from the Love Boat or is your side business selling ankle splints? /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Thanks Wayne but where would Water Works fall in that list?


.
... well , that list was ranked by "difficulty" ... i.e. "high scores" ...
.
... BUT ...
.
... for the best mix , scenery , playability , and all-the-other-factors-for-Fun > > > WATERWORKS is my number 1 ...

yeah. and where does sapulpa fall in :confused:


.
.
... it was on my previous-post of the 9-holers >

__________________________________

" � ranking the permanent 9-Holers we got in our neighborhood � #(1) as easiest � higher-the-number , tougher-the-course �
.
(1) Westport
(2) Reed
(3) Ray Brown (short tee)
(4) Mack Taylor
(5) Ray Brown (mid tee)
(6) Mack Taylor (alt. blue tees)
(7) Ray Brown (long tee)
(8) Kelly Lane
.
.
... in my opinion ... "

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