I wanted to hear everyone's reason.

As a player, I join the PDGA because I'm required to in order to play in the VA Open.

That's it. That's the list. You want to play in YOUR state's best tournament, then you have to fork out an EXTRA $75 just to be eligible to enter.

I wonder if I would join if that weren't the rule.

I think the IDGC is a great thing and it's nice to have standard rules for the game. That's not worth $75 dollars to me. More like $30 at best.

I still think Pro memberships costing more than Am memberships is an outrage! $75 bucks? Are you kidding me?

When I could pay $5 per tournament. Heck, I contend that non-members get more value per tournament than members do. That's backwards to me.

I, as a pro, take the higher membership as a slap in the face. $75 bucks? INSANE!!!

to support the sport and play WVO.

though the creation of the "expert division" and current/subsequent proliferation of non-sanctioned tourneys at lower costs with fewer divisions is making me second guess the first reason.

I have to be a member to be a co-td of the WVO...I also have to be a certified official for that reason as well.

Membership does have it's benefits...I have a sweet PDGA bag tag that says "10 year memeber"!!!

I joined two years ago to support the sport.
I renewed this year for the amnesty thingy.
I won't be renewing next year.

for me its mostly because some events require it and for the ratings. i also value the rules, equipment standards and testing, and other contributions the association makes to the good of the sport.

To support the national organization.

Happily.

As many people do with many other hobbies and activities.

To support the national organization.

Happily.



Second!!

It's automatic without thinking, sort of like a payroll deduction, and has no bearing on what I might or might not do competitively that year. Of course, I had perfect attendance for Jr High and High School so there might be some compulsion to get that 20 year bag tag in a few years...

So far EVERY answer up top is ME, ME, ME, ME, ME, ME, ME.....

That kind of embarrassing isnt it??

If the ONLY reason you sign up is to play 1 event OR help TD 1 event...You are in it for the WRONG reasons...........

In '91, I had the sport introduced to me by a co-worker...after playing 9 holes at Sylmar,Ca (with a "Lid") I met with Mike Byrne in the parking lot selling discs......

At that time I purchased a Bag....FILLED with Discs AND took home a PDGA membership form...............It was the best "CRACK" I had ever tried....the rest is history....

Sure membership fees COULD be lower...HOPEFULLY they will reduce, if they make the magazine (which ever 1 they choose) is made OPTIONAL...BUT the price is STILL not that high....UNLESS of course you do it for just 1 event...then that is your issue NOT the PDGA's.

I am a member because the PDGA is the ONLY organization that is doing ANYTHING to grow our beloved sport. It has its "twists and turns" as ALL expanding Org's do. With the constant change over of Board Members, we have a continuing battle over "personal agendas", etc....

EVERYTHING NEW is going to be met with some sort of disapproval, because you cant make EVERYONE happy.....

WHAT does signing up for the PDGA so you can ASSIST a TD do for ANYBODY????
My advise is to take the money....DONATE it to the Tourney and help as a volunteer anyway.........The PDGA DOESNT track WHO was an Assistant Heck, Do they even track WHO & How many events a person TD"s anyway??

Support the cause......Why be a member of the NRA, or NAACP, or USGA, or NAMBLA (Schwebby) :o :D

I do it because MAYBE, my 6 yr old (#17584), will be able to enjoy the benefits in OUR future..........

Find your reason....Make it a good one... :D

To support the national organization.

Happily.

As many people do with many other hobbies and activities.


Blind, unconditional support. That's a beautiful thing. I assume you would have happily supported the British government in 1776 since it was our only national organization.

Will you be happy if the PDGA increases the membership price AGAIN this year by 37.5% without polling the membership and with absolutely no apparent increase in membership value?

Next year your Am membership would be $75. In 2009 it would be $103. Still happy?

Is your support that unconditional?

To support the national organization.

Happily.

As many people do with many other hobbies and activities.


Blind, unconditional support. That's a beautiful thing. I assume you would have happily supported the British government in 1776 since it was our only national organization.

Will you be happy if the PDGA increases the membership price AGAIN this year by 37.5% without polling the membership and with absolutely no apparent increase in membership value?

Next year your Am membership would be $75. In 2009 it would be $103. Still happy?

Is your support that unconditional?



My "Season Pass" for Snowboarding is $909.00 per yr..............BUT, Hey that gets me on the Mtn for DiscGolf all summer as well. :D

$75 is a "drop in the bucket"............

Its not "BLIND" if you actually help to GROW the sport... :)

unfair, magilla! here is a list of all the reasons given above that are NOT about ME/ME/ME:

"I think the IDGC is a great thing and it's nice to have standard rules for the game."
"to support the sport and play WVO."
"to support the sport."
"rules, equipment standards and testing, and other contributions the association makes to the good of the sport"
"To support the national organization."
"Second"


just about everyone includes the greater good of the sport as a reason. except for chuck, who apparantly has it set on Auto-Pay and doesnt even think about it at all :D. not that theres anything wrong with that either.

of course there is a huge component of WIIFM. thats how the planet rolls these days. actually, thats how it has always rolled when you get right down to it.

this is not unique to our sport or our organization. on monday i participated in a review of a potential membership benefit program. their key take-away message was precisely that membership organizations and other affinity groups MUST answer the WIIFM question to the members' satisfaction or they wont flourish. i tend to agree. if the greater good was society's key driver, the AARP would market to 20 year olds

unfair, magilla! here is a list of all the reasons given above that are NOT about ME/ME/ME:

"I think the IDGC is a great thing and it's nice to have standard rules for the game."
"to support the sport and play WVO."
"to support the sport."
"rules, equipment standards and testing, and other contributions the association makes to the good of the sport"
"To support the national organization."
"Second"


just about everyone includes the greater good of the sport as a reason. except for chuck, who apparantly has it set on Auto-Pay and doesnt even think about it at all :D. not that theres anything wrong with that either.

of course there is a huge component of WIIFM. thats how the planet rolls these days. actually, thats how it has always rolled when you get right down to it.

this is not unique to our sport or our organization. on monday i participated in a review of a potential membership benefit program. their key take-away message was precisely that membership organizations and other affinity groups MUST answer the WIIFM question to the members' satisfaction or they wont flourish. i tend to agree. if the greater good was society's key driver, the AARP would market to 20 year olds



AH...I expected this....

When I started typing my response there were only 3 people who had responded....I was refering to them.....
Whn I hit enter...there are now MULTIPLE answers...MOST of which I agree with... :D

Its a time delay thing... :D

You, Discette & others ARE NOT THE ISSUE.....You are part of the solution. Not sure about Chuck... :D
Some do it by Promoting locally...others do it by running for the board and thinking Globally. :D

Blind, unconditional support. That's a beautiful thing. I assume you would have happily supported the British government in 1776 since it was our only national organization.



Gee, that's relevant.

If you have issues with the PDGA, then don't keep renewing. Period.

The organization isn't forcing you to pay dues, your choice to play that one event is.

that dang time delay! :)

happy birthday, and best wishes for many many more.

Blind, unconditional support.



Well someone needs to counteract the blind unconditional hatred.

Count me in for that support. The PDGA rocks.


I assume you would have happily supported the British government in 1776



Well yes... Upstart colonials! :p

Blind, unconditional support. That's a beautiful thing. I assume you would have happily supported the British government in 1776 since it was our only national organization.

Will you be happy if the PDGA increases the membership price AGAIN this year by 37.5% without polling the membership and with absolutely no apparent increase in membership value?

Next year your Am membership would be $75. In 2009 it would be $103. Still happy?

Is your support that unconditional?



Nice way to add words, thoughts and motives that are not there. My support is not blind nor unconditional. Please do not compare my support of the PDGA to supporting the British in 1776.

My membership is just one way for me to support the organization that represents my favorite activity. Yes, I would still be a member if they raised the dues to $103.

Do I agree with everything the PDGA does? No, but you can't please all the people all the time. I know all the people that volunteer to help this organization are doing it for the right reasons.

Again, my membership is just one way I support the organization that promotes Disc Golf. I also volunteer and serve the PDGA so that I can help make a difference and add something positive.

You asked for responses, please don't belittle people when you don't agree with or understand their motives.

Magilla put it best, but to clarify my reply for Whorley so he won't be misled in thinking it's blind allegience---

If my position were "What's in for ME?", based on direct benefits to me, I would not be a member.

If my desire were to ride on the coattails of others, and let other people foot to the bill for codifying rules and equipment standards and tour standards and maintaining an online course directory and comprehensive website and dozens of other things the PDGA does---I would not be a member. Maybe my flaw is that I'm just not that kind of person.

One other benefit that might encourage you to stay with us---your membership entitles you to run for the board next election on a platform of slicing the fees and programs of the PDGA. You'll get support....though perhaps not much. I think this was part of the platform of the candidate who finished almost DFL in the election.

I assume you would have happily supported the British government in 1776


Well yes... Upstart colonials! :p



Nice. :D

Why be a member of the NRA, or NAACP, or USGA, or NAMBLA (Schwebby) :o :D

I do it because MAYBE, my 6 yr old (#17584), will be able to enjoy the benefits in OUR future..........




Do I understand you to say you joined NAMBLA so your 6 yr. old will be able to enjoy the benefits in the future?????
For those of you that aren't Howard Stern fans, NAMBLA stands for National Alliance for Man Boy Lovers Asso.

I think this was part of the platform of the candidate who finished almost DFL in the election.



Well his ONLINE persona dint help him much either... :p

I WAS going to run for the board in '06 BUT my move to Oregon & Cris Bellinger running for the spot put that on hold.....
The future may bring me around again... :D

To support the organization that keeps the sport alive. For me its a bit more than most of the entry fees I pay, where I only get a weekend of golf. I get satisfaction for directly supporting my hobby.

I pay $20/month to go to the gym
I pay $30/month to have a cell phone
I pay $50/month to watch TV
I pay $40/month to surf the net

$50-$75/year is NOTHING. Stop whining. Just enjoy your magazine and your ratings and play.

Why be a member of the NRA, or NAACP, or USGA, or NAMBLA (Schwebby) :o :D

I do it because MAYBE, my 6 yr old (#17584), will be able to enjoy the benefits in OUR future..........




Do I understand you to say you joined NAMBLA so your 6 yr. old will be able to enjoy the benefits in the future?????



Yea thats what I said.......... :p

Dang Texan's.........Why do ALL the trees in Oklahoma lean to the South??
:eek:
:D

Blind, unconditional support. That's a beautiful thing. I assume you would have happily supported the British government in 1776 since it was our only national organization.

Will you be happy if the PDGA increases the membership price AGAIN this year by 37.5% without polling the membership and with absolutely no apparent increase in membership value?

Next year your Am membership would be $75. In 2009 it would be $103. Still happy?

Is your support that unconditional?



Nice way to add words, thoughts and motives that are not there. My support is not blind nor unconditional. Please do not compare my support of the PDGA to supporting the British in 1776.

My membership is just one way for me to support the organization that represents my favorite activity. Yes, I would still be a member if they raised the dues to $103.

Do I agree with everything the PDGA does? No, but you can't please all the people all the time. I know all the people that volunteer to help this organization are doing it for the right reasons.

Again, my membership is just one way I support the organization that promotes Disc Golf. I also volunteer and serve the PDGA so that I can help make a difference and add something positive.

You asked for responses, please don't belittle people when you don't agree with or understand their motives.




I would have to agree with Discette.
I made money on my membership since I have played 16 tournaments this year.

P.S. I was able to play 7 A-tiers since I was a member.

Preach on Magilla!

I am a member first and foremost to support the sport we all love. I will renew every year no matter what.

I feel that I get a lot of value for my membership dues. There is a huge list but what is important to me are the MessageBoard, player ratings, rules, IDGC is cool (never been but I will someday), but most importantly the promotion of the sport.

I reneweed as an am so I didn't pay $75, as a matter of fact I don't know what I paid, I really don't care.

To support the national organization.

Happily.

As many people do with many other hobbies and activities.



Or, more accurately, to support MY national organization.

Just having some fun, Magilla, nothing serious intended.
The trees are leaning that way because they are trying to get down here. Plain and simple. :D

I started playing again after a 10 year break from frolfing (obstacle frisbee golf) in 1996 at Sonoma State University. It took until 2004 before I finally got involved and my son and I registered for a PDGA event.

The 2nd annual Steady Eds Birthday memorial in Lake Port CA. was my first tourny as non-member. The TD Shayne and all of my friends who encouraged me to go, showed me what team work and well oganized event can do to make tournament disc golf a great experience. I also saw that everyone who cared enough to join had a cool mini with thieir own PDGA life time number! I thought that was cool, and I still do....

My son and I had found a sport that was affordable, extremely competitve, FUN and something we could compete against each other while building up our rating as a way to compare our skill levels and personal advancement.

My son got an invatation to 2005 Am Worlds and we went and became members in 2005 and even went as far as to pay through to 2007. Why? Because we saw the intrinsic value of the sport and wanted to pay what we could afford to be a part of that circle for as long as possible at the time.

It's not about magazines and ratings and goodies for me me me.... It's about the people who all come to the tournaments and the friendships that we have built over many years. Being a PDGA member for us is something we do out of love for the sport and the people we care for within the sport.

I always feel sad when a good friend has to miss an event due to life's surprises and we don't get to catch up... and I know that most players around the NorCal series where we live and play feels the same way.

So for many of us it is very hard not to send in that registration form because of what it represents and supports.

People who play disc golf for the love of the game.... :D

The trees are leaning that way because they are trying to get down here. Plain and simple. :D



:DOh I was always taught that it is because Texas S**Ks :D

But it could be that they ALL want to be on 1 of John Houck's courses.. :D

Yeah, that was a nasty rumor for the longest time, but you are correct when you talk about being in one of John's courses.
Do you know why the put OK on all of Oklahoma license plates?.........because they couldn't spell mediocre. :cool:

By the way, Magilla, I see that our PDGA #s are only 8 digits apart.

When I joined I was interested in getting out and playing some courses and tournaments, so I joined to save money.

Now I renew b/c the PDGA is the best thing we got going in disc golf and we all should support it.

SOMETIMES PEOPLE MAKE ME SICK.

The PDGA does very little (IMO) to grow the sport.
For 50.00 a year you could do a lot more for the sport on your own if you a.truely wanted to and b. gad and followed through with a vission.
Take for example: How many of you have bought the EDGE dvd and donated it to a school or church? That amount of money will grow and flourish our sport better then the PDGA does with the same amount. Or how many people go buy 50.00 of disc (used new or other) and take them out to a local course for new players to have or try out.

A city with 100 players donating 50.00 each could put in a new course every year if the land was available.

Donating time to help local clubs and work days on courses is very cheap and helps the current sport and the future.

Get off the soap box, the PDGA has not done what it can for developing the growth of the sport yet, Heck add 20.00 to everyones membership fees and send out edge dvd's to every school in areas where members are paying to be members.

There are a lot of small incentives that some feel are worth the cost of membership, and others don't.

I don't think it's right that TD's have to be members, pay for rules certifications and not play, there should be a TD package that is better and cheaper to help suport the people who make our sport competions.

Other things such as ratings, magazines etc are I like, I don't like and most are not worth the money obviously since the BoD doesn't want us to now the actual amounts of what these "BENEFITS" cost.

Why do I join, to play the A and NT events that require it, thats it. Now if you had to be a member and have a ranking to play all level of PDGA tourneys, I would love it, that way the PDGA supports it's membership in sanctioned tournaments, by not letting the people who bypass membership and ratings in for a mere 5.00.

I think we as members should look strongly at what the worth of the PDGA is and start changing it to be more. Even the PDGA mission statement is not being meet yet we let it continue down this path.

I joined the PDGA in '90 so I could be a part of the growing popularity of a sport I truly love and enjoy and so I could play in the same events that all these good people I was meeting were playing in.
I continue to pay my dues because I believe the only way to success is to have an international organization that serves the players in collective growth.

Isn't it curious that 9 out of 11 who unconditionally support the PDGA play in protected divisions? DavidSauls, Discette, Chuck Kennedy, Magilla, TBender, Moncropolis, topdog, deathbypar, and Senior. The lone Open players being Mr. Webber, who plays in the UK, and MTL, whom has been hit in the head with a driver one too many times.

To those protected players--I'm sure that being protected from players of like gender has nothing to do with you loving the PDGA and it's system. I'm sure if the PDGA did away with all protected divisions, you would still happily write them a check every year, sing their praises and lash out at anyone that said the cost wasn't worth the value.

What are you talking about I dont play in a protected division look again.

SOMETIMES PEOPLE MAKE ME SICK.

The PDGA does very little (IMO) to grow the sport.
For 50.00 a year you could do a lot more for the sport on your own if you a.truely wanted to and b. gad and followed through with a vission.
Take for example: How many of you have bought the EDGE dvd and donated it to a school or church? That amount of money will grow and flourish our sport better then the PDGA does with the same amount. Or how many people go buy 50.00 of disc (used new or other) and take them out to a local course for new players to have or try out.

A city with 100 players donating 50.00 each could put in a new course every year if the land was available.

Donating time to help local clubs and work days on courses is very cheap and helps the current sport and the future.

Get off the soap box, the PDGA has not done what it can for developing the growth of the sport yet, Heck add 20.00 to everyones membership fees and send out edge dvd's to every school in areas where members are paying to be members.

There are a lot of small incentives that some feel are worth the cost of membership, and others don't.

I don't think it's right that TD's have to be members, pay for rules certifications and not play, there should be a TD package that is better and cheaper to help suport the people who make our sport competions.

Other things such as ratings, magazines etc are I like, I don't like and most are not worth the money obviously since the BoD doesn't want us to now the actual amounts of what these "BENEFITS" cost.

Why do I join, to play the A and NT events that require it, thats it. Now if you had to be a member and have a ranking to play all level of PDGA tourneys, I would love it, that way the PDGA supports it's membership in sanctioned tournaments, by not letting the people who bypass membership and ratings in for a mere 5.00.

I think we as members should look strongly at what the worth of the PDGA is and start changing it to be more. Even the PDGA mission statement is not being meet yet we let it continue down this path.


Very well said.

SOMETIMES PEOPLE MAKE ME SICK.

The PDGA does very little (IMO) to grow the sport.
For 50.00 a year you could do a lot more for the sport on your own if you a.truely wanted to and b. gad and followed through with a vission.
Take for example: How many of you have bought the EDGE dvd and donated it to a school or church? That amount of money will grow and flourish our sport better then the PDGA does with the same amount. Or how many people go buy 50.00 of disc (used new or other) and take them out to a local course for new players to have or try out.

A city with 100 players donating 50.00 each could put in a new course every year if the land was available.

Donating time to help local clubs and work days on courses is very cheap and helps the current sport and the future.

Get off the soap box, the PDGA has not done what it can for developing the growth of the sport yet, Heck add 20.00 to everyones membership fees and send out edge dvd's to every school in areas where members are paying to be members.

There are a lot of small incentives that some feel are worth the cost of membership, and others don't.

I don't think it's right that TD's have to be members, pay for rules certifications and not play, there should be a TD package that is better and cheaper to help suport the people who make our sport competions.

Other things such as ratings, magazines etc are I like, I don't like and most are not worth the money obviously since the BoD doesn't want us to now the actual amounts of what these "BENEFITS" cost.

Why do I join, to play the A and NT events that require it, thats it. Now if you had to be a member and have a ranking to play all level of PDGA tourneys, I would love it, that way the PDGA supports it's membership in sanctioned tournaments, by not letting the people who bypass membership and ratings in for a mere 5.00.

I think we as members should look strongly at what the worth of the PDGA is and start changing it to be more. Even the PDGA mission statement is not being meet yet we let it continue down this path.



Pathetic....... :confused: In more ways than one.....

Get back on your soap box's people. :cool:

And don't worry, you probably won't see much of this guy at sanctioned events so there won't be any sour grapes to deal with..... Thank God for small favors :D

??? Im sorry that you CANT see the bigger picture....??

As for the EDGE program.......I have my reservations..

Having spoken to MANY educators who have reviewed the material..(there are quite a few teachers involved in this sport)..Im not so sure HOW the EDGE program is going to help at all.

I do not discredit ANY of the Work that Jay & Des have put into it...they have DEDICATED a heck of alot of their time & effort to its success.
Its just that when teachers cant get behind it...How can schools?
Donating a DVD isnt going to do ANYTHING....
Getting off your BUTT and doing Demo's & Clinics will.....

When I want to do these...I get ALL of my promo items from the PDGA...all I have to do is ASK :D

LOL. Good one. You did make me look, though.

EDGE is not a pdga program. whay add $20 to pdga fees when all one needs to do is go to EDGE directly if you choose?

mcop, i opened a BoD discussion on allowing members to see the percentages of their dues that go to each of the various programs and infrastructure. so far there are two in favor of sharing this info, and two against. three have not weighed in yet. keep hope alive.

I play Advanced how is that a protected division.

Why are you a member?



Two reasons:

1. I have to be in order to play in Majors or Super Tour events

2. The magazine, which used to be pretty good, now it seems it's just a bunch of advertisements.

Isn't it curious that 9 out of 11 who unconditionally support the PDGA play in protected divisions? DavidSauls, Discette, Chuck Kennedy, Magilla, TBender, Moncropolis, topdog, deathbypar, and Senior. The lone Open players being Mr. Webber, who plays in the UK, and MTL, whom has been hit in the head with a driver one too many times.

To those protected players--I'm sure that being protected from players of like gender has nothing to do with you loving the PDGA and it's system. I'm sure if the PDGA did away with all protected divisions, you would still happily write them a check every year, sing their praises and lash out at anyone that said the cost wasn't worth the value.



I play Masters because of my current skill level....plus I dont have to play with "Bag Kickers"

I "COULD" play Advanced if I wanted BUT why go backwards after 14 yrs.. /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif
There once was a time when I competed for WINS in the OPEN Div...that time has past me by. Now I play mostly for the joy of it...even though I dont enjoy my lack of putting exibitions I tend to put on. :eek:

Next year I WILL be playing OPEN, except for NT's, just for the fact that Im not interested in playing in a field of 6 people any more.

So :p
:D

Isn't it curious that 9 out of 11 who unconditionally support the PDGA play in protected divisions? DavidSauls, Discette, Chuck Kennedy, Magilla, TBender, Moncropolis, topdog, deathbypar, and Senior. The lone Open players being Mr. Webber, who plays in the UK, and MTL, whom has been hit in the head with a driver one too many times.

To those protected players--I'm sure that being protected from players of like gender has nothing to do with you loving the PDGA and it's system. I'm sure if the PDGA did away with all protected divisions, you would still happily write them a check every year, sing their praises and lash out at anyone that said the cost wasn't worth the value.



What does being in protected division have to do with anything I have said???? You might want to look at the margins of victory and the places I have come in and realize that the Adv. Masters division would give any, and I mean any Advanced player a run for their money once they reach age. So before you engage your mouth do some research and engage your brain!

I want the PDGA to do more, I don't hate it, just the stagnation that has been the last few years.

Even the PDGA looks to supply the ME factor in its membership.

Do none of you look at the financial documents:
http://pdga.com/documents/2007/0607FinancialDGWN81.pdf

Membership dues pay paid goes right back out to you. 1/4 or more go to just:
membership benefits and
fullfillment services

Look at the numbers, even the marketing section has more to do with the players already playing then the outside disc golf communnity.

Also, for those who go out and do clinics, great I love that, but we have to little of those people out of the thousands of members in the PDGA.

Perhaps you don't realize that PDGA Board member at the time, Jon Lyksett, helped develop the EDGE program and continues to run it plus my skillshot challenge I tested at the PDGA Pro Worlds in 2001 is the foundation for the EDGE program and the spark that got Harold at Innova behind its development? Plus I did much of the math section in the educational materials. All of this as a volunteer. I worked out an arrangement with Harold and Jon so that every player at Pro Worlds this year got an EDGE DVD in their player pack which they could distribute in their local communities.

In your own backyard, I came to visit mid-Ohio in May as the PDGA "advance team" to work with Ken Rollins and your local designers to improve five courses there prior to your hosting Am Worlds in 2010. You already saw some of the progress in the Bucyrus event you played this year

To those protected players--I'm sure that being protected from players of like gender has nothing to do with you loving the PDGA and it's system.



FINALLY correct about something!

Sorry to be a bit dim, but if someone out there will help me....is it possible that the original post was disingenuous---that he didn't really want to know why we're members?

Chuck, I know all that info, but this is almost all voulunteer work, not much more.

I didn't know about the edge dvd going out to the pro's that is very awesome BTW.

I wonder what would happen if we gave EDGE DVD's out for prizes at AM Tourney's, would they be sold, used, or given to the community.

There are many things that the PDGA could put money into or test waters with that I think would improve the image and the interest in our sport.

Has anyone looked into sports or outdoor magazines for articles and or info ads?

One of the coolest things I do is when I get the free disc golf magazine (not the PDGA one) I always give it out at the local courses, or to people I talk to about disc golf. Still the prolem lies in that most magazines and booklets like this do little to help new players or grab attention and get them to want to try it out. Most seem to have to many interviews, tourney scores, etc.

The last NT tour booklet I got was not done well enough as a promotional piece to outsiders of our sport.

Now contrast that to and golf magazine, or sport specific magazines, and they are packed with ways to improve your game, improve your mental thinking of the game, practice routines, whats in your bags, Photo's and layouts of courses or other competition items (paintball magazines would show field layouts and strategies, etc.) and then letters and discussions, maybe an interview, but not 4-6.

Personally I do want to support our great sport, but I want our organization (PDGA) to help and do more.

OH, BTW one of the best things I have gone to in the last 5 years was a GDS tour event. Why?

1. low cost entry
2. Am's only with pro's there to help and instruct
3. Awesome players package for players newer to the sport
4. Trophy only

I invited a lot of people to the one I went to and all had fun and learned and got something out of it.

I play in a non-sanctions series every year and have prior to jioning the PDGA. My son and I play 16 to 17 events each year (half sanctioned, half non-sanctioned) and have promoted the NorCal series to other non-members who are now members. These are one-day, 20$ entry, cash payout (not vey much) and is a handicaped event. You play divisional and handicap at the same time. The players of this series are responsible for at least 10 new courses going in over the past 4 years! But many of these players still support the PDGA. Why? Because it is the PDGA that sets the standards. We play by our own rules at these events, but those rules are very close to PDGA rules. We still carry a PDGA rule book and the only real differences are on island OB (must touch fair), and mis-calc'd score cards(one stroke). So without the PDGA we would not have the structure we need to build course and run those events....

Chuck, I know all that info, but this is almost all voulunteer work, not much more.




Ah, but that's one of the huge things the PDGA does is help organize volunteer work and share best practices thru communication. The PDGA can't take credit for the thousands of hours of local volunteer work. But members get the benefits of thousands of hours performed on the PDGA's behalf thru committees and major events. I tell people if they have no other reason to join the Minnesota Frisbee Association or PDGA, do it in honor of the volunteers like me who do the work so you can play free rec rounds on nice courses, or a course at all, and participate in events where you don't have to do a thing but play.

Why do people send $50 or $75 to Katrina relief or other charities with no expectation of reward? Because they themselves can't or won't volunteer to help but the money helps others do the work. Pretty much the same thing for the PDGA. The money helps pay for some of the direct benefits you receive but there are benefits that completely come from volunteer efforts and your small annual contribution helps honor that effort whether at the national level or by joining your local club.

I play Advanced how is that a protected division.



I'd like to know this too....I've played Am1 since I was rated 885, how can the largest division in most every Pro/Am event be protected. You can bag in any am division but the only "protected" divisions are the age group divisions.

Pretty much Texas States and Worlds for me.

The PDGA does do a lot of good things, as does Hugo Chavez, but you may not like a lot of other things they do and therefore feel that in balance, withholding your support is the right thing to do, just as those who tip the scale the other way. I'm not sure why that bothers some around here.

I suspect that Worley's observation about support being higher in protected divisions is spot on. I bet a higher percentage of open players would list "cause I have to in order to play X event or events" as their one and only reason. A true divisional breakdown of the responses would be illuminating, but ultimately ignored.

Another of Whorley's points about the disparity between pro and am fees has been entirely ignored by the powers that be. The question has yet to be answered, probably a similar phenomenon to two members unwilling to disclose where the funds go.

btw. what on earth is pathetic about stating that that money could be better spent on courses or on EDGE. So, you disagree, but "pathetic."??????

Don't even ask... Just realize that what he trying to suggest has nothing to do with the question.... He is trying to say that we in a protected division have less to loose... Thats so far out it isn't funny. I probably spend more money as a mature affluent business man that most 20 someting advanced players do at any given event on things like providing raffle prizes, buying discs from the locals, raffle tickets and even sponsoring new players who can't afford to play! So if someone is suggesting we "protecteds" join unconditionally because we have a safe division where we merch more often they don't know jack!

Isn't it curious that 9 out of 11 who unconditionally support the PDGA play in protected divisions? MTL, whom has been hit in the head with a driver one too many times.




First off, I am not very fond of all these divsions. I have posted on multiple occaisions I feel am divisions should be ratings based and pro divisions should be open and over 50.

I just feel that no one can do as much for disc golf as the PDGA.

Sure, I wish they did more of this and less of that, but for the most part, they do a good job.

But, as I said, one of things I do not like is the mulitple divisions. Your claiming that did based on my posts for the PDGA as a whole was purely based on asumption.

And I've only been hit in the head from a driver once, although it was a 400 foot down hill spike hyzer. So I guess you are right, that is too many times :D

Pathetic in that the guy who is posting only played 2 sanctioned events this year and has the gall to say we who support the PDGA make him sick and do nothing to grow the sport.......Get out and play and do something about it. Seems a bit pathetic to me... IMO

I'm not talking pathetic when it comes to the EDGE program, I'm taking about the negative statement he made:

"The PDGA does very little (IMO) to grow the sport."

My question for those who say the PDGA does nothing for the growth of the sport...

Who does more?!? And more importantly, what are YOU doing to promote the growth of the sport?

I get really tired of people complaining about things but never seem to help find a solutition.

I'm not trying to say I've never complained about something, b/c lord knows I have. However, when I have, I have always tried to fix it. If there was a hole I didn't like, I have tried to offer words to the locals about what I think could be done to make it better. At our local course, I thought that a tree needed to be removed. When we decided to take it down, I was at the workday where it happened.

I'm not trying to say I'm the perfect example of someone who does this, just giving my examples from my personal experience.

OK, i understand your point of view. I focused more on what was below rather than the stuff in big caps. :p

Isn't it curious that 9 out of 11 who unconditionally support the PDGA play in protected divisions? DavidSauls, Discette, Chuck Kennedy, Magilla, TBender, Moncropolis, topdog, deathbypar, and Senior. The lone Open players being Mr. Webber, who plays in the UK, and MTL, whom has been hit in the head with a driver one too many times.

To those protected players--I'm sure that being protected from players of like gender has nothing to do with you loving the PDGA and it's system. I'm sure if the PDGA did away with all protected divisions, you would still happily write them a check every year, sing their praises and lash out at anyone that said the cost wasn't worth the value.



Is that what all this rant was about? That your idea of being a competitor is beating old men and children and beginners and the infirm---and the PDGA structure won't let you do it?

Pathetic in that the guy who is posting only played 2 sanctioned events this year and has the gall to say we who support the PDGA make him sick and do nothing to grow the sport.......Get out and play and do something about it. Seems a bit pathetic to me... IMO

I'm not talking pathetic when it comes to the EDGE program, I'm taking about the negative statement he made:

"The PDGA does very little (IMO) to grow the sport."



Whats pathetic is how you always seem to judge people. FYI for 6 months I had been doing rehab due to a leg injury. Now I am trying to play 4-7 times a week just to get strength and consistency back into my game. Since the first tourney I played this year I have had to work or had other commitments for most the other weekends we had events close by.

Senior, you seem to judge people way to much around here, either that or you must have way to much of a high esteem of yourself. I'm not some snot noosed kid who has money to spare or time, I own 3 businesses and try to find time to play either by myself or with my children or other family members. Still, I am just as much a memebr as you, since we both pay the PDGA to be a member.

jeez, honest discussion is required of everyone.

I remember the two statements that made me hate extra divisions.....

1. When Pro 2 was going on, an advanced player was asked if he would like to play pro 2 by the TD saying "Would you like to step up to Pro 2" and someone said "don't you mean sideways?"

2. A player who played mainly grandmasters was told by the TD there was no grandmaster division (this is a freakin B Tier by the way, not even a big tournament) and he thought about it and said "I guess I'll step up to Masters."

I think both of these statements are just rediculous.

Exactly, it's unbacked gibbersih IMO....

Like I said, he is trying to say we have a safe place to compete with more chances of winning...

But even if I win 18 bucks in my little division, I spend $400+ going to the event on lots of thing other than travel expenses. I support the event and the people in the PDGA when I go. If there is full color disc I buy one etc.... CFR, buy one... Raffle, I'm a bagger (and proud of it), lunches provided by the TD. CTP contests (I dropped $50 trying to get in last year and made it). So, it's not about winning merch its about people and the PDGA. There is alot of extra money needed to cover an event that some people are not thinking about like Insurance etc...

1. Support the PDGA & the sport.
2. Certified Official so I can TD Events.
3. Save $. Play approx 15-20 events per year.
4. Have my stats & rating tracked.
5. State Coordinator
6. President of a club that promotes the PDGA. You have to be a leader by example.
http://discontinuum.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=17&Itemi d=37

I do not agree with every decision the PDGA makes. I however support them and think they are doing what they think is best for the sport. Since i've been playing in 2001 the # of courses in Illinois has doubled. The player base is growing rapidly. They are doing a fantastic job with a limited staff. I appreciate the many volunteers and staff that are trying to expand the sport.

I am so sick of getting on this board and reading bashes against the PDGA for every decision they make. It seems there are a lot of guys on here that have an answer for everything. If you have the answers volunteer and help. Run for an elected position.

I became a member this year only cuz of the Glass Blown Open A-Tier(had to be a member to play) and the fact that my membership will last thru next year also since i am a first time member.

Isn't it curious that 9 out of 11 who unconditionally support the PDGA play in protected divisions? DavidSauls, Discette, Chuck Kennedy, Magilla, TBender, Moncropolis, topdog, deathbypar, and Senior. The lone Open players being Mr. Webber, who plays in the UK, and MTL, whom has been hit in the head with a driver one too many times.

To those protected players--I'm sure that being protected from players of like gender has nothing to do with you loving the PDGA and it's system. I'm sure if the PDGA did away with all protected divisions, you would still happily write them a check every year, sing their praises and lash out at anyone that said the cost wasn't worth the value.




Get over yourself.

Unconditionally support? I don't think any of those mentioned would use the term unconditional in our support.

I play in a "protected" division because I have zero desire to play as a Professional. One job is enough, I don't want another. I advocate lower entry fees and mandating the Trophy-Only option for all divisions -- as a move to a better Amateur system.

The PDGA does do a lot of good things, as does Hugo Chavez, but you may not like a lot of other things they do and therefore feel that in balance, withholding your support is the right thing to do, just as those who tip the scale the other way. I'm not sure why that bothers some around here.

I suspect that Worley's observation about support being higher in protected divisions is spot on. I bet a higher percentage of open players would list "cause I have to in order to play X event or events" as their one and only reason. A true divisional breakdown of the responses would be illuminating, but ultimately ignored.

Another of Whorley's points about the disparity between pro and am fees has been entirely ignored by the powers that be. The question has yet to be answered, probably a similar phenomenon to two members unwilling to disclose where the funds go.



James, I think the problem is that he asked, people answered, and then he launched into an ad hominum attacks. He's not interested in real answers; he just is crying about his own issue.

Ok, so what should happen if the responses come back as you say? To me, PDGA events should be limited, and especially for Pros. I come from the UPA world, where you must be a member to play in events.

I do agree that the fees should be the same for both Pro and Am.

I am not trying to judge you, just defend what I think is a very important organization.... You made a statement:

"Sometimes people make me sick" and

"The PDGA does very little (IMO) to grow the sport."

So I looked at your stats to see how many events you played this year in support of the PDGA

I have no idea why you only played two events, but if thats the case, then you don't have much room to be making statements like that IMO

I'm sure you are a good person. but the discussion went the way you pushed it.

How about you say why you are a member:

"Why do I join, to play the A and NT events that require it, thats it. Now if you had to be a member and have a ranking to play all level of PDGA tourneys, I would love it, that way the PDGA supports it's membership in sanctioned tournaments, by not letting the people who bypass membership and ratings in for a mere 5.00."

I'm sure many agree that things can be done to make our benefits better and more fair, but thats not why many of us join, and that is my point.....

Why do you equate supporting the PDGA with playing in tournaments?

or better yet, what do you think the PDGA is doing to grow the sport?

BTW I have said before exactly why I am a member, because I have 2 A tiers near me that I normally play in, or try to get to. I couldn't play in the Hambrick this year because I couldn't last the 45 holes of day 1. However I did go, support the club, helped where I could behind the scenes, and enjoyed the weekend.

IMO is in my opinion, not yours or anyone elses. I think the BoD has many issues that should be brought out more often. I also think that when I voted for people they should represent the players, the mission statement and the sport. I think checks and balances if done at all are all internal and the PDGA may not be always working in the interest of the players or the mission statement.

These are all my opinions, you don't have to agree or disagree, but you should at least not criticize what I think. Especialy since I see nothing that backs up any differences.

PDGA membership fees and how they are used to grow our sport. It has been said in many post before that this is a grass roots sport. Maybe thats the problem, we leave it there and refuse to actively make it a organizational based sport. I have heard that PDGA events are hard enough on TD' but we don't make it easier, and more and more non sanctioned events pop up.

BTW maybe I will run next time and try to make a bigger difference. At least what I state as things I will do, I will actualy work towards.

BTW in one of my business's if I want it to grow I have to market it to death, If I don't I may as well close the doors, because you don't people to join, come in the door, buy into it or even look at you with the concept of if we build it and do nothing people will come.

Why am I a member?

Basically because I love the sport and want to support its growth. I have played in a few tourneys, but I don't do that anymore, just support the TD's and build courses. And, if I get the Ace Club, I get some cool goodies that come along with that.

As long as I am okay with what the organization is doing, then I'll be a supporter. But that is always subject to review and change.

Just a knee jerk reaction. I read what you wrote and said to myself, I wonder why this guy thinks the PDGA does NOTHING to grow the sport. Thats a pretty strong statement. It's not so much about how many events you play, as how much you put into the relationships and the support of the sport. So it is great that you are dedicated. But bashing the PDGA because it is not perfect doesn't make you right about the PGDA contibuting NOTHING to the growth of the sport.


I have personally seen a huge amount of growth that is largely due to the PDGA involvement, ratings and the access to competition with TOP professionals. So we can always agree to disagree. It's not personal, just opinion. So take it for what it worth and leave it at that.

The PDGA does very little (IMO) to grow the sport.




I wonder why this guy thinks the PDGA does NOTHING to grow the sport.



Same thing, eh?

I only play one sanctioned tourney per year, feel free to judge me too.

I am sorry if you guys think that I am judging you. So I will apologize.

I just think it is a pathetic thing to say that the PDGA does very little to grow the sport.

It is by it's very nature the main reason the sport has grown at all.

The PDGA is the players, not a BOD or a RC. We all go out and play at our local course and hopefully encourge player to join and come to sanctioned events. So there may be people out there who are not PDGA members marketing the sport, but why?

Because the PDGA laid the ground work and the rules targets tees etc. It was the IFA and Steady Ed.....

To say the PDGA does very little is a hard statement for me buy into......

The PDGA does do a lot of good things, as does Hugo Chavez, but you may not like a lot of other things they do and therefore feel that in balance, withholding your support is the right thing to do, just as those who tip the scale the other way. I'm not sure why that bothers some around here.

I suspect that Worley's observation about support being higher in protected divisions is spot on. I bet a higher percentage of open players would list "cause I have to in order to play X event or events" as their one and only reason. A true divisional breakdown of the responses would be illuminating, but ultimately ignored.

Another of Whorley's points about the disparity between pro and am fees has been entirely ignored by the powers that be. The question has yet to be answered, probably a similar phenomenon to two members unwilling to disclose where the funds go.



James, I think the problem is that he asked, people answered, and then he launched into an ad hominum attacks. He's not interested in real answers; he just is crying about his own issue.

Ok, so what should happen if the responses come back as you say? To me, PDGA events should be limited, and especially for Pros. I come from the UPA world, where you must be a member to play in events.

I do agree that the fees should be the same for both Pro and Am.



As for TBender playing in a protected division... I can assure you he also doesn't bag for plastic. I helped run the store at an event he did rather well at and he and his wife donated over half of their winnings to the club's course expansion fund. He plays for love of the game and as he says "Disc golf is where Ultimate players go to die" or something to that affect.

BTW, abcd, nice finishes in that one event!

How many of people out there think that the PDGA does very little for the growth of the sport?

The ? I have is why do u chose to play only one event each year?

in my opinion people who only play one event year are supporting the PDGA a lot more than they have to.

Sounds like getting 50 - 75 dollars out them is a lot better than just 5 for that one weekend.

BTW, abcd, nice finishes in that one event!

How many of people out there think that the PDGA does very little for the growth of the sport?



....and how many of those, were around 10 years ago?

The sport has grown tremendously. The PDGA has done many things in that time. Now, that's not proof---cynics could argue that it would have grown even without the PDGA---but it seems to me pretty clear that the PDGA has been a big part of that growth.

How many members support the PDGA without ever playing in an A-tier or NT? My guess is the number of players who are members only so they can play in one or two tournaments is particularly small.

Is that what all this rant was about? That your idea of being a competitor is beating old men and children and beginners and the infirm---and the PDGA structure won't let you do it?


Far from it. My ideal system has 7 divisions that includes a Masters cash division, and a Am and Junior divisions that get huge player's packs and trophies.

There's a division for everyone. If you don't want to play with the big boys then you can be protected. I simply would like the financial reward to be removed from all am divisions. Even if the reward is $1, $5 or $100 in merch.

I just thought there looked to be some bias.

Why am I a member ?

I wish to support the sport and the PDGA is the ruling body of the sport and the international organization responsible for it's growth and management.

Why do I renew my membership every year ?

I enjoy the sport and competition even at my reduced level. I like the majority of the people I have met through Diac Golf and don't want to lose touch with them.

Why do I renew as an ACE club member every year ?

I see the benefit of having an international organization in getting courses installed and growing the sport.

Why am I a State Coordinator, Marshal, Committee member, and volunteer for the PDGA.

I don't agree with everything the PDGA is doing, but know that the way to effect change is not to complain, but to get involved and learn which compromises are made and why. No one gets things their own way in a large organization, all you can do is get to a place where you can be heard above the din and support the changes you believe are in the best interest of the sport.



As far as having a better way to spend my $150 each year:

Do you think that it would be easy to get courses into parks if there was no national organization ?
Do you think there would be any point in talking to a School about the sport if there was no organizing body ?
Do you think that there would even be targets out there to buy if there was no national organization ?
Do you think that boycotting the PDGA would in any way improve the chances of growing the sport.

I don't agree with everything the PDGA is doing, but know that the way to effect change is not to complain, but to get involved and learn which compromises are made and why.



Exactly!!

I've learned quite a bit, both good and bad, about the PDGA since joining the disciplinary committee and becoming a moderator of the discussion board.

Unconditionally support?


I'd like to apologize, TBender, in retrospect. You did not allude to that, though others on that list did say that they'd renew no matter what. I shouldn't have lumped you in there.

Do you think that it would be easy to get courses into parks if there was no national organization ?
<font color="green"> probably not as easy, no. but far from impossible </font>


Do you think there would be any point in talking to a School about the sport if there was no organizing body ?
<font color="green"> yes there would be a point. but of course having an organizing body does help </font>


Do you think that there would even be targets out there to buy if there was no national organization ?
<font color="green"> sure there would be, absolutely </font>


Do you think that boycotting the PDGA would in any way improve the chances of growing the sport?
<font color="green"> it might or might not. depends on what you do with all the time and cash it would free up. </font>

Unconditionally support?


I'd like to apologize, TBender, in retrospect. You did not allude to that, though others on that list did say that they'd renew no matter what. I shouldn't have lumped you in there.



And if you lumped me in there you were wrong too. I never said I would unconditionally renew my family membership. I said is very hard for me to consider not renewing. There is a big difference between the two. I have many issues with the current competition rules and agree with many of the things being thrown out on the table regarding non-members, ratings you name it. But when the time comes I bet I will renew for the intrinsic values of the organization.

(to no one in particular)

the argument that WIIFM is self-centered is weak. every decision we make, especially spending decisions, has a WIIFM component. "support the sport" is WIIFM - more courses, my kids will be able to play, etc.

if there was no WIIFM, we would all join every organization out there until we ran out of cash.

even every spending decision the PDGA makes has WIIFM in it. except its Whats In It For Members.

What is WIIFM?

<font color="blue">Let me say that the PDGA represents any national organization, and without the PDGA means without any national organization.</font>
-

Do you think that it would be easy to get courses into parks if there was no national organization ?
<font color="green"> probably not as easy, no. but far from impossible </font>
<font color="blue"> I have to agree, because I have seen all sorts of stuff in parks if enough cash was donated to get it in, but it is very unlikely that there would be thousands around the worls without an organizing body.</font>
-
Do you think there would be any point in talking to a School about the sport if there was no organizing body ?
<font color="green"> yes there would be a point. but of course having an organizing body does help </font>
<font color="blue"> I can't argue this one because I haven't been on that front line yet. I can't imagine that getting a sport into very many schools would be possible without an organizing body and published "official" rules </font>
-
Do you think that there would even be targets out there to buy if there was no national organization ?
<font color="green"> sure there would be, absolutely </font>
<font color="blue">without a solid market, I don't know that there would be a ready supply. Without an organization I don't think there would be a solid market. Of course, with the current inter-net driven economy, there probably would be a niche provider available.</font>
-
Do you think that boycotting the PDGA would in any way improve the chances of growing the sport?
<font color="green"> it might or might not. depends on what you do with all the time and cash it would free up. </font>
<font color="blue"> Without dedicating all of that cash and energy toward developing an organization to channel it effectively, I don't see it helping much. You may do something regionally, but it couldn't push the sport without becoming organized, and then you have the PDGA again.</font>

Is that what all this rant was about? That your idea of being a competitor is beating old men and children and beginners and the infirm---and the PDGA structure won't let you do it?


Far from it. My ideal system has 7 divisions that includes a Masters cash division, and a Am and Junior divisions that get huge player's packs and trophies.

There's a division for everyone. If you don't want to play with the big boys then you can be protected. I simply would like the financial reward to be removed from all am divisions. Even if the reward is $1, $5 or $100 in merch.

I just thought there looked to be some bias.



Oh.

I don't think there's bias. Until this weekend I'd won $10 in merch in 6 years, due to a habit of playing divisions above my rating, interrupted by a rather lengthy injury. My ideal system is closer to yours than you'd guess---no age-protection in Ams, perhaps a 50+ Pro division, lower fees and much smaller payouts in Ams, and more.

My support of the PDGA is not agreement that the current system is perfect, nor what it would be if I ran the zoo. But I accept that I'm just 1% of 1% of a diverse membership, so not suprised when some things aren't to my taste; most are.

Apparently I erred in assuming your motivation, of a person I don't know and have little information about. I end up being wrong and looking foolish when I do that. I'm not crazy about being on the receiving end of such assumptions, either.

Lets not forget that this an INTERNATIONAL organization....

The sport is growing in more than just the USA

How many of people out there think that the PDGA does very little for the growth of the sport?


I personally think the PDGA does very little to grow "the sport". I think the PDGA does much to grow competitive "amatuer and professional disc golf". However, I think local clubs and individuals not necissarily involved with the PDGA are the ones growing "the sport".
We are the ones out there playing, and showing new players how to play, what discs do what, hosting cook-outs, minis, and night golf, etc under no supervision or direction from the PDGA.
I think individuals, some manufacturers, and programs like EDGE are the ones getting people out to courses. Which is what I consider growing "the sport". Now once they are out there, then the PDGA offers them one avenue for competitive disc golf.

What is WIIFM?


Whats In It For Me

"Why does one man have more say in PDGA decisions than the entire Membership? "

who is this man of whom you speak? and if he is a Member, then your question wraps back upon itself and vanishes in a poof.

do you really mean something like:

Say(OneMan) &gt; Say(EntireMembership - OneMan)

?

:D

I am a member so I can view my statistics online. Hopefully my renewal fees helps the growth of this sport.

"Why does one man have more say in PDGA decisions than the entire Membership? "

who is this man of whom you speak? and if he is a Member, then your question wraps back upon itself and vanishes in a poof.

do you really mean something like:

Say(OneMan) &gt; Say(EntireMembership - OneMan)

?

:D


Fixed. Although it doesn't read well.

We are the ones out there playing, and showing new players how to play, what discs do what, hosting cook-outs, minis, and night golf, etc under no supervision or direction from the PDGA.




While this is completely true, you would be surprised how much the PDGA website is used by Park Depts to determine how to install baskets and who to contact for support information. I regularly get calls referred to me for several types of information along with many others both staff and volunteers. This is ongoing silent PDGA support the local players will never see that may help keep a course in the ground or get a new one, validate a person talking to the parks is legit, rule interpretations, where to buy baskets among many other types of questions.

The PDGA website and discussion board is a place where you can find out about successful formats like night golf, buying glow sticks or tips for playing in the snow with your PDGA approved plastic on PDGA approved baskets and using most if not all PDGA sanctioned rules for those games.

"Why does one man have more say in PDGA decisions than the entire Membership? "

who is this man of whom you speak? and if he is a Member, then your question wraps back upon itself and vanishes in a poof.

do you really mean something like:

Say(OneMan) &gt; Say(EntireMembership - OneMan)

?

:D



I always took it to mean CK

Certainly such a powerful person would be among those gathering at the Summit starting tomorrow?

www.pdga.com/msgboard/showflat.php?Cat=0&amp;Number=740917&amp;Main=740917#Post7 40917 (http://www.pdga.com/msgboard/showflat.php?Cat=0&amp;Number=740917&amp;Main=740917#Post7 40917)

I know who it is....

Snoop Doggy Dog!

No Senior it is 2pac :D

Certainly such a powerful person would be among those gathering at the Summit starting tomorrow?

www.pdga.com/msgboard/showflat.php?Cat=0&amp;Number=740917&amp;Main=740917#Post7 40917 (http://www.pdga.com/msgboard/showflat.php?Cat=0&amp;Number=740917&amp;Main=740917#Post7 40917)


Such a powerful person probably needs not be mentioned in the list of attendees, lest conspiracy theories might arise. Such a powerful person is much smarter than that and knows how to "attend" in other ways. :p
Plus, when such a powerful person gets his/her wishes granted regardless, he/she need not attend such trivial events. He/she shall send his/her minions and puppets to take care of such trivial matters.

Certainly such a powerful person would be among those gathering at the Summit starting tomorrow?

www.pdga.com/msgboard/showflat.php?Cat=0&amp;Number=740917&amp;Main=740917#Post7 40917 (http://www.pdga.com/msgboard/showflat.php?Cat=0&amp;Number=740917&amp;Main=740917#Post7 40917)


Such a powerful person probably needs not be mentioned in the list of attendees, lest conspiracy theories might arise. Such a powerful person is much smarter than that and knows how to "attend" in other ways. :p
Plus, when such a powerful person gets his/her wishes granted regardless, he/she need not attend such trivial events. He/she shall send his/her minions and puppets to take care of such trivial matters.



You, sir, are tripp'n....

Those days are behind us ;)

I suspect that Worley's observation about support being higher in protected divisions is spot on. I bet a higher percentage of open players would list "cause I have to in order to play X event or events" as their one and only reason. A true divisional breakdown of the responses would be illuminating, but ultimately ignored.



Spurious correlation.

It's more likely that the higher rate of support among players in age-protected divisions is because these older players are more likely to have higher incomes and therefore have more disposable cash. Volunteerism and charitable giving both increase with age, primarily because of increased income but also because of the additional world-view perspective that people gain as they age, which makes them more likely to do things for the common good.

There, I put my graduate school degree to work.

Im a member because with as many tournaments as I play it SAVES me money...........That and you MUST be a member to play NTs and Majors and this year I played 4 NTs and Plan on playing 2 Majors.

So really I have no choice in the matter but it does save me money

wonderful. a spurious correlation that negates another's spurious correlation..."my spurious correlation is bigger than yours." hilarious.

whorley, thanks for asking the "tough" questions.

i do believe i choked on a chicken bone when i read something to the effect of "i don't play in a protected division, i play advanced." on this thread or another like it. it just goes to show how clueless the membership really is. if nothing else, i hope some education is being had.

Now you tell me how I am in a protected division cause I have not chose to move up and play 100 dollar tournaments. In the tournaments I played this year the cost 800 dollars more than the advanced. I have two kids and I play for fun. Go choke on that bone somemore.

Hi Vince,

Thank you for supporting the PDGA for the last 9 years. I see that we have done something right in your eyes and are grateful for your membership. We hope you will renew next year as I am working on added membership benefits.

This thread is most helpful although I seldom have time to read the discussion board. I have not had a chance to read all comments as I just skimmed it just now. But thank you to all supporters and also for those speaking their concerns.

We have our Summit meeting the next two days and I will be speaking on this subject as I feel we need to offer more to our renewals. I also feel we need to reach those, like yourself Vince, that play in only one or two events a year. Be assured I am researching ideas for you all.

Please feel free to email me directly. [email protected]

You will get an answer quicker and I print out your email to reference when bringing ideas to the Board.

Thank you all for supporting the PDGA. Enjoy the game!

~Addie

How many of people out there think that the PDGA does very little for the growth of the sport?


I personally think the PDGA does very little to grow "the sport". I think the PDGA does much to grow competitive "amatuer and professional disc golf". However, I think local clubs and individuals not necissarily involved with the PDGA are the ones growing "the sport".
We are the ones out there playing, and showing new players how to play, what discs do what, hosting cook-outs, minis, and night golf, etc under no supervision or direction from the PDGA.
I think individuals, some manufacturers, and programs like EDGE are the ones getting people out to courses. Which is what I consider growing "the sport". Now once they are out there, then the PDGA offers them one avenue for competitive disc golf.



Of course the individuals are the ones on the front line promoting DG, on what planet do you have to be on to think that the 40 or so elected officials could or should be out running 'cook-outs' on your behalf? They are certainly doing these things in addition to their PDGA work, but to expect them to do it for you beggars belief!

In the UK, the scale of DG means that virtually every enquiry comes through the BDGA site, more often than not through me. I offer advise &amp; guidance, arrange for press sessions, tell people where their local course is, supply them with materials for developing their own courses etc. I give up my weekends, my evenings, take leave from work, all to promote this sport.

I pray for the day when the snowball effect means that people are contacting their local club for this kind of information, and that there are a hundred people doing the same job that I'm doing right now. Then the BDGA can instead focus on developing Tour standards, pushing development in fringe areas (maybe Ireland for us, Europe for the PDGA anyone?)

When we get there, it will be down to the efforts of the BDGA, me, my predecessors, my successors. The PDGA has got you there, they have enabled you to have your cook-outs, your minis, your night golf.

Yet there are people who begrudge a dollar-fifty a week, and have the gall to tell me that I make them sick? Enjoy the taste, I'm not changing...

Well said.

iheartdiscgolf,

Thanks for reading some of our discussion. It's impossible to filter through a big thread, much less the whole board, to find what people are trying to say. I can't expect anyone to read through all of this junk.

I appreciate your suggestion. It would be nice to find a collection of ideas that have been discussed to send to the BOD. Thank you.

do i really need to explain it? advanced? is that a description of your dementia?

What is WIIFM?



It's a corporate buzzphrase, used to con employees that working hard for the company will result in benefits to them.....What's In It For Me.


(Jaded, am I?)

In this context, or at least in the context where I introduced it on this thread, "What's in it for me?" refers to direct benefits to the individual; i.e., custom mini, discussion board posting privilege, entry into A-tiers, saving $5 on non-member fee, etc. If this is the criteria by which a person decides on PDGA membership, it is understandable that such person feels they are not getting enough for their entry fee and perhaps should not be a member.

As opposed to the collective benefits the PDGA may bring to the disc golf world at large, which as Pat pointed out, benefit individual disc golfers. These justify my membership, and presumably that of most members.

Ah, the bi-annual why should I join the PDGA thread. It must be autumn.

There is one reason, and one reason alone that makes it worth joining the PDGA; that's ratings sir.

Think about major tournaments without ratings. First, if you have divisions, it's impossible to tell who's bagging and who should play where. You immediately lose all ability to have any fairness in who plays in what division. Of course you could force everyone to play Pro and then then no one plays in your "majors" because they are basically paying for the top guys to play.

Even SN and MSDGC take advantage of the ratings systems provided by the PDGA in placing their players. Yes indirectly, but there you have it. Without the ratings system you become pool hall pool, sharks rule the water setting up lesser players for the kill.

BTW - any local tournament that has any non-local players uses the PDGA's rating system also. Let me be clear, if you are playing any tournament that has any non-local players, you are getting a PDGA benefit. You might argue that is your right, but I reserve the option of considering you a free-loader.

Now, setting that aside, is the $75 fair. Well, given that the PDGA provides the very basis for the sport and it's national existence, I would argue yes. That $75 ensures that you know who you're playing with and what your odds are in any given tournament you play.

Now, if you're hitting one tourney a year, one might argue that you really shouldn't be playing Pro, but the difference between Am and Pro is $20 so that's your choice.

Finally, all things considered, the PDGA acts as a nexus. You can argue that they are incompetent or that we are poorly served, but you can't argue that the nexus doesn't exist and that a nexus is required for growing any sport or organization. If you don't like the direction it is simple enough to get involved.

Take Pat, I disagree with much of Pat's style (not his goals). Nonetheless, you can't argue that he hasn't been effective in achieving some of his goals, if not all or even the majority of them. He has brought more openness to the organization and better communication at this site.

Only through involvement can you gain a change. Regardless of how much you think the PDGA is taking in relative to the service, no organization of this size can grow without huge amounts of volunteer time. By being involved you have the opportunity to be heard. As a past volunteer and future volunteer I know this to be true. I also know that the PDGA always needs more. There's your venue, don't argue if you're not getting what you want.

Rather than drift this thread, I started a new one about Open and protected divisions.

Why am I a member? Originally, it was because $15 for my "lifetime membership" was deducted from the prize money I won in the Wham-O $50,000 Tournament back in 1979. When my check came in the mail from Wham-O it was $15 light, but then I received my PDGA member discs a few weeks later.

I stopped playing for several years, but renewed my membership a few years ago when I started playing again. I knew that by renewing I was helping to support a wide variety of activities aimed at promoting and growing the sport of disc golf. I was happy to receive the magazine when it was included with my membership materials - it seemed to me to be a fine representation of the sport - informative, descriptive and yes, I even enjoyed reading the ads.

Over the past few years I have learned more about the wide variety of member benefits and supporting activities that the PDGA is involved in - things that we did not have back in 1979, such as:

- Detailed rules, reviewed and maintained by an organized committee.

- An organized nationwide tour of events - run under standard conditions with a standard payout formula by TD's who have demonstrated their knowledge of the game and their ability to carry out administrative tasks.

- World Championships held each year at locations screened by the governing body and supported by the governing body's staff.

- An International Disc Golf Center - a home for the sport, its Hall of Fame and a fantastic flying disc history museum.

- Player ratings, which while not perfect, provide a relatively accurate comparative measure of players across the country or around the world.

- A Board of Directors made up of players and enthusiasts, not manufacturers, who can guide the organization as the majority of players see fit.

- Technical standards for the discs and targets used in play.

- A message board where members can communicate, argue, congratulate, insult and inform each other.

- And many other things too numerous to mention.

I don't like everything the PDGA does, but on balance I think the organization does a good job of representing me and carrying out my wishes for the sport. I typically enjoy the healthy debate I see on this message board, but I'm afraid I see more short-sighted and under-informed postings than I would like to, however, that's what you get with democracy.

Thanks, Wham-O.

nice, riz, those are well-stated indeed.

the message board can get whacky... its more like a voice conversation among a large group of friends. sometimes we say stuff that isnt fully thought out. part of the value (for me anyway) is learning the flaws in my arguments.

I'm a member because I believe that the PDGA (which includes all PDGA members as the true asset of this type of organization is really the combined efforts and talents of its membership) is currently the best engine that has and can continue to advance the sport. My membership contributes to the gas needed to make it run.

Same reason I am a member of local clubs.

The ? I have is why do u chose to play only one event each year?



Work and money. Too much of one and not enough of the other.

Thanks, Pat.

I play on the message board on a regular basis, so I'm used to the environment. I, also, think it is a great place to test out ideas. What bugs me sometimes is the replacement of logic with vitriol.

I think its a good idea to find out why people join or renew - you definitely don't want to drop those services. It's just a shame when what looks like a valid question is just used as bait by trolls.

I appreciate you as a BoD member being on here to kick around ideas.