Is there any insider information that anybody has? I've had a destroyer for a bit now and find it unpredictable and tippy. I'm hoping Discrafts' ability to make stable plastic and more consistent molds will produce something better than the surge. Maybe they won't even try to make a faster one, but the destroyer adds an amazing amount of velocity and distance. This amazing distance comes with a flippy stability and i'm actually glad i lost the one i owned just yesterday.

The faster these drivers become, the more unpredictable they will be as well. At some point you have to choose which is more important to you: speed or predictability. My guess is that the market will eventually help Dave D decide when there's little benefit from creating a faster driver.

The Destroyer is more controllable than the Wraith and Teerex at high speeds in my opinion. It is not flippy either, it just turns fast when it does turn. I really favor the feel and consistency of Discraft's plastic, so I hope that they have an answer soon. Until then, I can't afford to NOT throw the Destroyer. It is the only Innova disc in my bag and I bought just because I wanted to throw it so I could critisize it. Unfortunately, it flies really well. ;)

This has also been my thought for quite a while -the need for a fast, long, and overstable Discraft disc. I love Discraft plastic. I do not think the Avenger is long enough, and the Surge is not overstable enough. I don't care for the Pulse one bit. IMO there is no close Discraft driver that compares to the Teerex, Max, and Destoyer. I need to boot my Teerex's out for a good Discraft maximum driver so I can stay loyal!

I have found the answer. FLX Surge. Overstable and long. I can put a lot behind this one and it still hyzers.

Predator?

I have found the answer. FLX Surge. Overstable and long. I can put a lot behind this one and it still hyzers.


I agree. The FLX Surge is a consistantly long disc. I'm positive that I'm getting more snap on the FLX Surge than the ESP and Z-versions, and yet the FLX is definitely less flippy (even compared to the Z-Surge). Furthermore, I'm throwing FLXs in the 163-166g range and my other Surges are 168-170g.

nanook

I guess I need to start using both the 169 and 172 FLX Surges that are in my bag then. My 171 Z Surge turns too much when I try for the extra power. Sounds like the 172 FLX will cure that. Thanks.

Question on Z-Surges...I have tried three of them all in various colors and all of them turn over and don't come back. Has anybody else noticed this? The Z-Surge flies almost like my Rogues.

Ya I haven't liked the Z-Surges at all...the ESP seem very consistent to me but as far as stability goes my Surges are a perfect compliment to my Pred and Pulse...but its hard to talk about stability since I live at 6000 feet elevation and all discs are more stable here

FLX surges are more stable for sure but i don't like floppy plastic. They need to release something more overstable for sure. maybe redo the pulse to fly like the proto types.

I have found the answer. FLX Surge. Overstable and long. I can put a lot behind this one and it still hyzers.



Close, but no cigar. That is what was in my bag before the Destroyer. The FLX Surge was just weird. It is really fast, but it did not glide. I really could not throw the FLX Surge very far compared to the ESP Surge, and definetely not very far compared to the Destroyer. On a stable to overstable flight the Destroyer goes 20-30' farther on the same throw.

Blue Sparkle Z-Tsunami... fast and far ;)

Predator?



The Predator is what I consider a true overstable disc. I think it is comparable to the MAX, but not the Destroyer. It is about the halfway point between a Max and a Firebird in stability and speed imo.

If the flick had a little more glide, I think it would be most Destroyer like. I think the Flick is as fast if not faster than the Destroyer but it just doesn't have the glide to go as far.

I have found the answer. FLX Surge. Overstable and long. I can put a lot behind this one and it still hyzers.



Close, but no cigar.



I'm sure they will be coming out with another mold soon in answer to the destroyer, as they have done with the wraith(surge) and trx(pulse). For now, for me, the FLX surge is the longest overstable disc from Dcraft.

Crush = controllable Destroyer

I lost my Destroyer and went back to the Crush with no real distance difference

Predator?



The Predator is what I consider a true overstable disc. I think it is comparable to the MAX, but not the Destroyer. It is about the halfway point between a Max and a Firebird in stability and speed imo.



The destroyer is good as long as you are not using it for head wind shots. Then it is more like a spectra.

How similar is the Destroyer and the Venom? Both have ridiculously wide rims, and both are incredibly fast and flat. Did Innova borrow an idea from Circle D? :eek: No way. :D

How similar is the Destroyer and the Venom? Both have ridiculously wide rims, and both are incredibly fast and flat. Did Innova borrow an idea from Circle D? :eek: No way. :D



I forgot all about the Venom... they do fly very similiar ;)

Maybe i need to try the pulse its the only discraft driver i havent tried.
I really like the t-rexx and cant find a discraft disc to replace it. It's the only innova disc i carry hmmm oh well hopefully i can find something soon.

How similar is the Destroyer and the Venom? Both have ridiculously wide rims, and both are incredibly fast and flat. Did Innova borrow an idea from Circle D? :eek: No way. :D



I forgot all about the Venom... they do fly very similiar ;)



Ding Ding Ding. Maybe innova figured out how to run the Venom in Z plastic and called it a Champion Destroyer. :DOh BTW, the Venom came out in 2005! :eek:

The venom is slower, has less glide, is more overstable and is only made in baseline plastic. It is also flatter and its profile is slimmer with a shallower lip. Just to point out a couple differences. I bet the venom (and the drone) could be molded in FLX plastic since it's less dense than Z (just a hunch)

No raining on this parade. Just having some fun with the hype. I'm sure a lot of people would like to see the Drone in FLX or ESP but i think The Circle D would have already produced some if it were possible.

To keep the shape and same flight of the Drone they have to keep it in D plastic b/c ESP and Z are too dense....can't keep the weight down.

And yes....throw the Pulse!!! Its perfect compliment to the Surge and Pred--Right in the middle (or just throw a new Z-Crush)

To keep the shape and same flight of the Drone they have to keep it in D plastic b/c ESP and Z are too dense....can't keep the weight down.

The FLX is less dense than Z and ESP
The new DGA Shockwave is not quite as overstable as a Drone but it definitely fills the niche if you want something in premium plastic - something to check out

...that was the response that I got from Discraft when I asked them if they were going to make a Drone in any other plastic...he said that anything other than D is too dense

How similar is the Destroyer and the Venom? Both have ridiculously wide rims, and both are incredibly fast and flat. Did Innova borrow an idea from Circle D? :eek: No way. :D



I forgot all about the Venom... they do fly very similiar ;)



Maybe if you don't have any arm speed. IMO the Venom is 3 times more overstable than the destroyer. I got two destroyers for sale if you want them John. :D

I bet the venom (and the drone) could be molded in FLX plastic since it's less dense than Z (just a hunch)



Ooooooooh, an FLX DRONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The Venom is close to the Destroyer and I still want an FLX Flick.

venom is as fast as destroyer. it is a great disc. if they could mold it in better plastic and give it a little dome it would be their answer the the destroyer.

No raining on this parade. Just having some fun with the hype. I'm sure a lot of people would like to see the Drone in FLX or ESP but i think The Circle D would have already produced some if it were possible.



This is trouble for the circle D. As far as I know neither Discraft or Gateway has the capability to produce wide rimmed discs in premium plastic. C'mon guys! Don't let Innova widen the gap that has been closing for a long time!

No raining on this parade. Just having some fun with the hype. I'm sure a lot of people would like to see the Drone in FLX or ESP but i think The Circle D would have already produced some if it were possible.



This is trouble for the circle D. As far as I know neither Discraft or Gateway has the capability to produce wide rimmed discs in premium plastic. C'mon guys! Don't let Innova widen the gap that has been closing for a long time!



Um...what about the Surge, Spirit, Blurr, Illusion, Pulse? They are produced in premo plastic.

The new hard plastic ESP Surges are great..........The new Pulses have been tweaked and I hear are flying like the amazing proto Pulses everyone loved. The Rogue is Amazing for long distance off the tee without much effort...........I cant wait to see what Discraft comes out with in answer to the Destroyer cuz from what ive seen EVERYONE is getting ALOT more distance out of the Destroyer with little effort...........The Z Surges are most def more flippy than the ESPs and I believe its because they all come out so flat but if you want a consistanly stable Surge your going to have to switch to the ESPs.

Can I get some back for another run of Cam Todd Challengers??? Im starting to run low and I need some more super hard Challengers!!!

I second the cam tood challengers...i've got eleven of them and i fear the day when i beat in my last one.

No raining on this parade. Just having some fun with the hype. I'm sure a lot of people would like to see the Drone in FLX or ESP but i think The Circle D would have already produced some if it were possible.



This is trouble for the circle D. As far as I know neither Discraft or Gateway has the capability to produce wide rimmed discs in premium plastic. C'mon guys! Don't let Innova widen the gap that has been closing for a long time!



Um...what about the Surge, Spirit, Blurr, Illusion, Pulse? They are produced in premo plastic.



The Destroyer has changed the definition of wide-rimmed drivers. The Surge and Pulse are narrower than Wraithes and Teerexes, let alone the Destroyer. The Blurr and Spirit are similar in wing length to the Surge, and Gateway cannot produce the Illusion in premium plastic without them coming out mostly overweight. Wide rims equal speed and distance, and as long as Innova is the only company that can produce to these extremes (destroyer), they have a huge advantage over the other guys. It must be a filler agent blended into their plastic because they are making the Destroyer in all of their plastics except Dx.

Pull out your micrometer and measure the Venoms rim and this new Destroyagame disc. It can't be noticably wider than the Venom b/c the Venom is all rim. :D

BTW, i have held the Destroya. Seemed like nothing but rim to me.(Which is okay for those with big hands, not so helpful for those with small hands)

I think it must be also more difficult to mold larger volume discs with premium plastic consistently. A large mold like the Destroyer might produce a higher frequency of bubbles and warping that would make them seconds

BTW, i have held the Destroya.



:eek:

I'm guessing that phone call from Circle D is coming.

"Um, John. Welcome to the Pro D Team."

LOL. Team positions are based on performance. I started at the bottom and worked my way up to the top Z-Team where i stayed for 3+ years. After 2 kids and a terrible recurring leg injury the downward spiral commenced. With ZERO pdga events this year(doctor's orders), that phone call probably is coming. Might as well finger feel some foreign plastic while i'm at it. :DI have faith in my recovery and Circle D in 2008. :p

Get well soon!!!

No raining on this parade. Just having some fun with the hype. I'm sure a lot of people would like to see the Drone in FLX or ESP but i think The Circle D would have already produced some if it were possible.



This is trouble for the circle D. As far as I know neither Discraft or Gateway has the capability to produce wide rimmed discs in premium plastic. C'mon guys! Don't let Innova widen the gap that has been closing for a long time!



Um...what about the Surge, Spirit, Blurr, Illusion, Pulse? They are produced in premo plastic.



The Destroyer has changed the definition of wide-rimmed drivers. The Surge and Pulse are narrower than Wraithes and Teerexes, let alone the Destroyer. The Blurr and Spirit are similar in wing length to the Surge, and Gateway cannot produce the Illusion in premium plastic without them coming out mostly overweight. Wide rims equal speed and distance, and as long as Innova is the only company that can produce to these extremes (destroyer), they have a huge advantage over the other guys. It must be a filler agent blended into their plastic because they are making the Destroyer in all of their plastics except Dx.





have you not held the spectra? it has a rim very similar to the destroyer and is made in esp if im not mistaken

I second the cam tood challengers...i've got eleven of them and i fear the day when i beat in my last one.


I will third this one :D I have a stack of them in my closet. I go through two of them about every 3 years. I only use these bad boys for putting duties.

No raining on this parade. Just having some fun with the hype. I'm sure a lot of people would like to see the Drone in FLX or ESP but i think The Circle D would have already produced some if it were possible.



This is trouble for the circle D. As far as I know neither Discraft or Gateway has the capability to produce wide rimmed discs in premium plastic. C'mon guys! Don't let Innova widen the gap that has been closing for a long time!



Um...what about the Surge, Spirit, Blurr, Illusion, Pulse? They are produced in premo plastic.



The Destroyer has changed the definition of wide-rimmed drivers. The Surge and Pulse are narrower than Wraithes and Teerexes, let alone the Destroyer. The Blurr and Spirit are similar in wing length to the Surge, and Gateway cannot produce the Illusion in premium plastic without them coming out mostly overweight. Wide rims equal speed and distance, and as long as Innova is the only company that can produce to these extremes (destroyer), they have a huge advantage over the other guys. It must be a filler agent blended into their plastic because they are making the Destroyer in all of their plastics except Dx.





have you not held the spectra? it has a rim very similar to the destroyer and is made in esp if im not mistaken



Ah, the Spectra. It does have a rim similar to the destroyer, but the plastic is very bizarre. It says Z on it, but it is more like ESP. This weird supercolor plastic is very stiff and slick, and it chunks up when it hits something hard in my experience. The flight of the disc seemed even more touchy than a Wraith, either holding completely stable or turning without coming back. It also seems very height-sensitive, much more than the Destroyer. When I took a couple of Spectras out to the field to compare with my Rogues and Surges, it outdistanced those discs only when given the exact height it needed. Two feet too high and it stalled. Two feet too low and it would not lift and ended up short. At the perfect height it showed more maximum D potential than the Rogue and Surge, but the Rogue had the longest average distance.

I threw Illusions in premium plastic yesterday. They went far.

the title of this thread raises a question for me... why would discraft want to have anything like the destroyer?

Those that were @ the 'king masher' throw across the lake contest @ the USDGC might know why i'm saying this. Innova gave/forced all the guys to throw new Pro Destroyers and they proceeded to throw hard hyzers that would flip over mid flight and turn into a sky roller (except into the lake) almost like an optimizer (ok... not really that bad). Then, at times, you'd see someone throw the same throw back to back and sometimes it would actually get stable (kind of) and other times (most of the time) it would do a hard anny flip into the middle of the lake.

Personally I thought it was a rather bad commercial for a new disc... "here 'kids'... buy this great new disc that even the top pros can't throw consistently" LOL

Many times, the discs the top pros turn over and have trouble with are much better for the vast majority of players (customers). If the top guys throw the disc well, it doesn't bode well for many of us.

good point Chuck but I had heard this disc would be billed as a disc for the 'big arms' and since thats who we had hucking them out there I thought it beared pointing out.

I had also talked to some of the sponsored guys and could quote them as calling the disc 'squirrely' in terms of its consistency.

Were those Star or Pro Destroyers thrown over 500 feet at the field competition? I would think any disc thrown over 500 would have some marketing appeal for all players no matter who made them? With a Gateway disc is confirmed to have won a distance competition, seems strange to call it an Illusion... (couldn't resist). Could be a potential marketing slogan for someone, "Our latest highspeed driver is no illusion."

...maybe the pro destroyers are performing differently than the star or champ...

Illusion, Errrrrrrr, not so latest driver, I've been using them for distance for years (bought a H plastic one from JEM 4 yearsish ago) they were certainly before the big gateway uprising we are currently seeing.

And I am sure the destroyer will change slightly as the runs go. I remember when the wraith first came out everyone was telling me how awesome and long they were, for me they were good rollers. probably the mass audience vs big cannons argument.

I am sure there will be an answer to the call from virtually all the manufacturers. Hence the return of illusions to production.

Were those Star or Pro Destroyers thrown over 500 feet at the field competition? I would think any disc thrown over 500 would have some marketing appeal for all players no matter who made them?........


dont you honestly think that Avery or GG could huk a driver from just about any manufacturer over 500'? The whole... its the indian not the arrow argument.


...maybe the pro destroyers are performing differently than the star or champ...


and I guess this is the point I was making... the star destroyer has seemed fine (although i've had some flippy ones in the bunch.... (stinks not getting consistency) but the point is that the pro seemed to have a lot of 'issues'.

Side note... i'm not taking anything away from the event... its always a blast to see them launching discs over the lake!! I actually think it would've been fun/nice to see them all throwing the type of disc they qualified with though.

Pro plastic is generally less stable than Star and Champ. That could be the culprit

I totally agree with stack on this one, If its a distance comp then it is a distance comp period. If it is a destroyer comp then fine just label it appropriately.
Yall should come down here for the JEM and GG Wizard competition, I will even let you through a KC or a JK, but only in qualifying, for the showcase we are throwing bricks (quadruple backhand barrelroll to roller good for at least 150 ft)

hey bob....if garrett is your hero, you could at least spell his name right :D