Has anyone tried this? It is advertised in the latest issue of Disc Golf World (throwlonger.com).

The web site does not exist

I disagree.

Unless you have a different definition of existence...

http://tinyurl.com/32qelf

And to comment further....

What this is, I believe, is a Month long training system.

Yeah it will probably work.

Can you do the same thing without giving this guy $40 to tell you to do it?

Yes.

If you go out and throw drives for a few hours everyday for a month you are going to see results no matter what you are doing......

It is all about actually putting the time into developing your throw. Sounds easy but it takes a lot of time and thought.

Get your local pro out with you for your hour of drives and I would guarantee results in four days.... :cool:

thanks I would have been here all night looking for it :D

I increased my drives by 50-70ft. in a two hr. lesson and then alot of time in the backyard the next day. You dont need a tool. Just practice!

I have to say that the writing is quite persuasive from a marketing standpoint. Look how well Destroyers are selling even though they don't really help you throw that much farther. It makes me wish that it was my idea, because I imagine it will sell. Does anyone know who is behind this?

Does anyone know who is behind this?



Administrative Contact:
Beam, Craig [email protected]
CKB Marketing, LLC
407 Old Stage Road
Lewisberrt, Pennsylvania 17339 <font color="red">&lt;&lt;&lt;&lt;---- Should say Lewisberry??</font>
United States
(717) 918-1294

Whois (http://www.networksolutions.com/whois/results.jsp?domain=throwlonger.com)

Taking this a step further:
PDGA player information (http://www.pdga.com/tournament/playerstats.php?PDGANum=29191)

I tried that, but kept getting error messages.
(It couldn't even find any members named 'Climo.')



At least it is a disc golfer entrepreneur and not some faceless corporation pawning their products off as 'disc golf accessories.'

I'm not sure it helps that his rating has gone down from 912 to 900 in the past year. Of course you can learn to "throw longer" but end up putting worse I suppose...

Of course you can learn to "throw longer" but end up putting worse I suppose...



You must have been watching me play /msgboard/images/graemlins/ooo.gif

I should have mentioned that I wasn't trying to imply anything with my post of his PDGA info, just give more info about the man behind the website.

For all we know he's just the web guy and wasn't involved in developing the system. Would be curious to hear feedback from people that try it out.

I do not mean this as a shot but people have been lauding Blake T's help for years and his player rating is 918 and he has only played in 2 tournaments in the last 3 years (none of which were in 2007). Do you need to be a good golfer to teach?

I do not mean this as a shot but people have been lauding Blake T's help for years and his player rating is 918 and he has only played in 2 tournaments in the last 3 years (none of which were in 2007). Do you need to be a good golfer to teach?



How does that old saying go???

THOSE WHO DONT, TEACH....

Do you need to be a good golfer to teach?



No. On the other hand, Blake had been around for several years studying and assembling the information he provides. This person may have been around the sport for awhile. But his PDGA history is only one year. It would be nice to hear about the player and program from some veteran players in his area.

Sorry I have been slow to respond. I have been following this thread, but have been unable to get logged-on to the website until now. I will do my best to answer the questions that have been posed here so far...

First off, I do agree with the poster who suggested that many newer players can improve their distance by playing with (or even watching) a local pro. This training system does not address "technique" at all. This training system is designed for the experienced player who has already developed a technique that works for them and wishes to add distance and arm speed to their backhand throw.

I would disagree with the poster who suggested that you can add distance by simply going out in a field and throwing. Once again, it may help you to better develop your throwing technique, but it will not develop your fast twitch muscle fibers the way this system will.

As for my background, I have been playing for about 7 years. Sometimes casually, sometimes obsessively. I maintain our local club website, volunteer my time working on our new course when possible, sponsor a basket, and help run our local tournaments.

As for my player rating (how embarrassing), I have two daughters (4 and 6) and just don�t have the time to play as much as Id like. Also, yes, my putting is atrocious.

I am NOT a pro. I am not trying to "teach" you how to play disc golf. My "expertise" is more on the fitness side of things than on the disc golf side of things. I spent a lot of time researching this system and working with a personal trainer at my gym. Isometric training is certainly nothing new. It has been used by athletes to increase muscle speed for years. I have simply applied the theories to throwing a golf disc.

I hope to have testimonials up on the site before the next issue of Disc Golf World is released. This is why I am currently offering a $10 rebate to anyone who will send me their results (positive or negative). I have not solicited my friends to try this out. I felt it wasn�t fair to them, and figured their comments would likely be biased anyway. I've had a small but steady amount of sales and currently have several veteran disc golfers trying out the product including someone associated with Disc Golf World, a previous advanced masters champion, and a pro worlds champion. I would love to add more to this list. There is a 100% money back guarantee if you are not satisfied with the results.

If you have any other questions, please feel free to reply here, or else send me a PM.

www.ThrowLonger.com (http://www.ThrowLonger.com)

Thanks for responding Craig. Good luck with your efforts in an area that has barely been tapped for our sport so far.

As for my background, I have been playing for about 7 years. Sometimes casually, sometimes obsessively. I maintain our local club website, volunteer my time working on our new course when possible, sponsor a basket, and help run our local tournaments.



I can't speak for the distance techniques, but as PDGA State Coordinator for the state of Pennsylvania, I can vouch that Craig and a bunch of other local volunteers have spent an enormous amount of time building a new course over the last several years in south central Pennsylvania. This new course was burrowed out of the some nastiest rough imaginable in a previously inaccessible section of Gifford Pinchot State Park. When finished, this new world class pro par 63 gem will be reminiscent of Nockamixon State Park and one of the toughest in the state. Which is really saying something considering the challenging courses we already have in Nockamixon, Tyler State Park, Moraine State Park, Deer Lakes, Codorus State Park, etc.

Craig has also played a part in establishing several new clubs in the region, runs several tournaments each year, and diligently maintains the club websites.

Blake pretty much sticks to his own website Discgolfreview.com . If you look in the forums, there is a ton of information on disc golf technique, disc golf product review/feedback, and general disc golf discussion. Just post your question and you will get helpful feedback. The site has helped many people improve their distance, putting, and disc selection. The best thing is that this information is all FREE at Discgolfreview.com . Check it out.

I have heard several players discussing the merits of developing "fast twitch muscles" and have seen some of the attempts they have used to build this up. One player developed a significant increase in distance, but actually starting torquing his disc so fast his home developed system quit working for him.

I have a decent rating and will be using the system to see if I can gain back some distance that age has seemed to cost me. I don't think there is any question that a defined practice program can gain you distance, up until you hit a plateau. I am hoping that this program will be convient and repeatable. I will let you know.......

Thank you very much for that information Craig. I really like your ideas and am interested to hear how this works out. I'm in the middle of a big effort to improve my overall fitness before delving into specific disc golf workouts, but when the time comes I will definitely be checking back.

Do you need to be a good golfer to teach?




No - I can speak from personal experience :(

Here's my physician's take on the throwlonger system:

The discussion regarding fast twitch (white muscle) and slow-twitch (red muscle) is scientifically sound. I must clarify it a little, however.

The ratio of fast to slow twitch muscle in an individual is genetically determined. For example, a tortise cannot train to jump like a kangaroo. In other words, distance throwers like Christian Sandstrom or Avery Jenkins or Garrett Gurthie are in large part born not made. I say "in large part" because one can affect things by training.

To use a purely random simplified example, a person might be born with 75% fast-twitch muscle fibers (versus 25% slow), but through proper training increase the speed/power of that 75% to be equivalent to the speed/power of another person born with 90% fast twitch muscle fibers. On the other hand, with equal training, the guy born with 90% fast twitch muscle fibers will always have more speed/power.

Some studies imply that through training one may "convert" fast-twitch to slow-twitch muscle but probably not so much in the vica-versa, and in either case, the percentage converted is small compared to the genetically determined number.

The reason for this is that slow twitch muscle AKA "red" muscle is highly vascularized meaning it has an excellent supply of oxygen and blood sugar needed for endurance. Training can increase the vascularity of muscle so that fast-twitch (white) muscle can appear redder (like slow-twitch muscle) with training.

On the other hand, fast-twitch (white) muscle is fast because it has more mitochondria per cell and more neurologic input than slow-twitch muscle. The number of mitochondria and neurologic input is genetically determined and can only be influenced somewhat by training. Mitochondria produce energy for the muscle cell "fast" via a molecule called ATP.

So in summary, the claims made by the throw longer system might be valid to some degree if the system does in fact train the fast-twitch muscles, but don't expect it to turn everyone into an Avery Jenkins.

The first question I would ask is how far does Craig Beam really (measured) throw? If we knew how far he threw before "the system" (really and measured) This might be the best indication of the best results one might hope for. Unfortunately, I doubt reliable "before" data is available in this case.

I would caution everyone to give "testimonial" evidence little or no weight. One can convince many people to testify to just about anything.

What is needed is a scientific study of people who are known to be able to throw a certain distance with their best effort, then have them work "the system" then re-measure their best throws again under similar conditions without teaching them anything new about form, etc. Then compare them to a similar group who just practiced a lot of driving for the same amount of time without "the system."

The above will probably never happen.

Perhaps the author has a very good system for isolating and training white muscle. "Pylometrics" is a system which has done this with some success in the past, but unfortunately, there is no specific information without the money up front.

Thanks for that insightful and thorough response. For those who are considering paying for the through longer system. you may want to check out this site first Disc Golf Review (http://www.discgolfreview.com/index.html) It has a lot of excellent technique information, as well as video of top players throws.

Thanks for all the replies so far. I plan on using some of this feedback to create a FAQ list which will be added to the website.

Stan - the ThrowLonger System can be used simultaneously with cardio exercises, however traditional weight lifting (ie:strength training) is counter productive to isometric speed training. If you plan on starting a strength training program in the near future, I would not purchase the ThrowLonger System right now. I have a whole page in the manual dedicated to Tips for Success. "Stop lifting weights" while using this system is one of the tips.

David - thanks for your professional perspective. I am in agreement that you are not "converting" slow-twitch muscle fibers to fast-twitch muscle fibers. The system works by isolating and training the underdeveloped fast-twitch muscle fibers used in lateral arm movement. I am also in agreement that some people will see greater results than others depending on many factors, including their genetically determined % of fast twitch muscle fibers. On average though, most people have about 50% fast and 50% slow in most muscles used for movement, so I dont think it is unrealistic that everyone would see results. Here is a link to a good article on Fast and Slow twitch muscle fibers http://sportsmedicine.about.com/cs/exercisephysiology/a/aa080901a.htm ... You can also do a google search on "fast twitch muscle fibers" and find lots of other articles.

Also, I do have data on my throwing distance, both before and after. It is how I came up with the "Add 10%-30% More Distance To Your Drive" statement. I haven�t used any of this data in my marketing because I wouldn�t expect anyone to believe it coming from me. I love your idea of a "scientific study", especially because I could then control how often, and how effectively, people were actually using the system (the biggest reason it may not work for everyone). Unfortunately you are correct, this will probably never happen.

Chaca - Disc Golf Review has been brought up multiple times in this discussion. It�s a great site and I too have used it over the years for help with my drives and putting. I hope to link it in my FAQ's for people looking to work on their technique. As I said previously, I am not a pro and am not giving advice on technique. I have simply taken the same proven training techniques used by sprinters to run faster, basketball players to jump higher, and weight lifters to lift more and applied them to disc golf.

I know nothing about throw long but the concept of exercising to increase distance isn't new. There have been some top Pros in years past who have commented on lifting to increase distance. Also take a look at the build of the current Worlds Distance Record holder.

That said, I utilize a workout coach and do a number of specific exercises to build my obliques, abs and general lower body strength to get more power. Furthermore, I also utilize a number of lifts that increase explosiveness and speed.

These exercises were given to me (and get rotated in and out of my regimen) by a trainer.

Does it work? Good question. In my age category, here in Houston, I see few guys who can throw as far as I do. However, the guys I see win don't do it with distance. They do it with accuracy in all their shots and especially in their putting. You'll do your game more good if you get out and practice accuracy on a daily basis than if you add 30 feet to your throw. That 30 feet is important, but an 850 rated player who increases his/her accuracy by 10% will go to 900. An 850 rated player who adds 30 feet might go to 860, if he/she is lucky. If you combine the two, the player will probably go to 920 or so. That is, the accuracy makes the distance relevant, without it, the distance doesn't mean much. IMO.

BTW - I did more to increase my distance (I average in at 380 and top out at 420 or so and I'm 47) by working on technique than lifting. You look at the top guys and they aren't throwing incredibly hard. They're quick as lighting yes, but what really gives them distance is very very good technique.

BTW - The fast twitch slow twitch concept is fairly old now and well proven. When I was in high school, I and the other cross country geeks were all abuzz because we were convinced we had loads of slow twitch (low speed, high endurance) muscle. It was our little way of saying we had something the football players didn't. Of course they could still use their fast twitch muscles (at least the backs could) to kick our donkeys but such is life. :)

The biggest payoff for increasing distance will be with mid-range discs, not necessarily drivers. There aren't that many holes where throwing 400 versus 350 makes enough difference to change your score. However, if you can throw a mid or even putter 325 versus 275, the accuracy gain of using a rounder edged disc versus bladed driver on holes under 340 will definitely improve your scores and indirectly improve your putting since you'll just be closer to the basket on average.

Try the Equalizer and do fast reps that focus on your snap.

$40 for a freakin' .pdf is ridiculous. Google plyometrics if you want to throw bombs. I throw big D and it's not about raw strength - we aren't hucking discus here. It's about flying an object with great speed on a pattern that maximizes distance.

Good luck here.

The biggest payoff for increasing distance will be with mid-range discs, not necessarily drivers. There aren't that many holes where throwing 400 versus 350 makes enough difference to change your score. However, if you can throw a mid or even putter 325 versus 275, the accuracy gain of using a rounder edged disc versus bladed driver on holes under 340 will definitely improve your scores and indirectly improve your putting since you'll just be closer to the basket on average.



This is an excellent point and I agree that being to throw a mid-range off the tee is an enormous boon, and can greatly affect your score. However, I would disagree that there aren't that many holes where throwing 400 versus 350 makes enough difference to change your score. In my region of the country, the Mid-Atlantic States, I can think of many of these holes where that extra distance could give you a shot at deuce and greatly affect scoring. It may not be appropriate from a course design standpoint to have par 3 holes that long, but that's a different discussion. Additionally, we have many 650-780 foot pro par four holes where that extra distance is going to give you a better shot at a score of birdie 3, or allow you to use a rounder edged disc versus bladed driver on the approach. It will definitely improve your scores and indirectly improve your putting since you'll just be closer to the basket on the approach, on average.

I love your idea of a "scientific study"



That's scientific study, not "scientific study". No quotation marks are necessary.

The reason I'm curious about your own results is who better than you can work your own system?


I do have data on my throwing distance, both before and after. It is how I came up with the "Add 10%-30% More Distance To Your Drive" statement. I haven�t used any of this data in my marketing because I wouldn�t expect anyone to believe it coming from me.




This looks more like a "scientific study" not scientific study. but if you have the scientific data, I have no reason not to believe you.

Let's see your independently measured verifiable results in a sanctioned distance event or otherwise official independently judged distance event both before and after using your system.

Assuming that you have such data, I'll further assume that you eliminated other variables which might have affected your data such as more total non-system training, learning better technique, or the motivation to train harder or learn better given that you intended to use the results to make a profit.

thanks

Dave

PS - to anyone following this thread, I previously misspelled plyometrics. This is a widely known method of training fast-twitch muscle for more power. I won't vouch for it's efficacy, but a great many people have used it, and claim it works. Put plyometrics in a google search, or even look for it on discgolfreview.com. It's free.

Sorry if I offended you with the quote marks. There honestly wasnt any hidden meaning behind them. I used them to acknowledge that it was your suggestion.

I understand that many are going to be skeptical and that's perfectly understandable. Purchasing this system isn't for everyone. If you already have somthing that is working for you, by all means, continue to do so.

Lastly, I have no interest in getting into a war of words with anyone. If you have questions, Ill do my best to answer. Throwing out statements like "$40 for a .pdf" is both an unfair and untrue statement. The system includes both a training device and a professionally printed manual. There is not any .pdf file even associated with it.

what is the training device? a Resistance band or???

.....a disc.....?

....a glove....? /msgboard/images/graemlins/ooo.gif

It's a pair of magical crystals that you must make sacrifice to every night or less you will start throwing shorter and shorter and shorter until a jump putt is the best you got!!!

I've seen it happen...my buddy got jinxed by a homeless man on the course once before and I bet it will happen again...! :eek:

Alright Andrew, settle down.....

It's special weighted ring that snaps inside your primary drivers so they throw heavier. Either that or a custom 300g Destroyer. :eek:

Everyone knows throwing longer doesnt give you a huge advantage!! Everyone knows a pro that can only throw 350 but kicks the young guys butts. Some of the older guys I know, Lavonne Wolfe, Dean Tannock throw long but whats impressive is there consistency.
We should be trying to figure out how to throw it more accurately

Who needs a 300 gram destroyer, just trying to keep my 170 gram destroyer on a line is work out enough. /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

I could use at least a 185 Destroyer....

That would be pimp....

....of course, if you check all of your discs on the old digi's then you will find that some production discs are a lot heavier than you think.....

I don't need the "throw longer system", I need the "putt better system" or the "don't always run at it system".

I don't need the "throw longer system", I need the "putt better system" or the "don't always run at it system".



Send me $40...I'll teach you to lay up...even when you're running at it. :cool:

You can't blame a guy for trying to make some $ on disc golf. He sounds like he knows what he's talking about and has probably put a lot of time into his venture.

I'm curious, ThroLngr, where did you study?

Taking Aplodan from Muscletech will help increase the amount of dormant muscle fiber that you use also. The majority of these dormant muscles seem to be fast twitch. I found out after taking the Aplodan for a month that my distance had increased by about 40-50ft. Downside is the stuff is expensive.

what is the training device? a Resistance band or???



it is a Cracker Jack suprise???

don't be ashamed of your "training device" let the world see it :D

WORD!

i play every sunday doubles at Redan and i have been playing with pros and adv. masters and they can help u improve your game a lot

WORD!

I stopped reading this because the arguments towards the throwlonger site were getting repetitive and annoying.

The owner of this system has already stated that this program is not for putting or Technique. .

Why must everyone add in putting and technique when trying to disprove his statements???

I'm hoping that all of these things have been clarified already because any simple person who listened to the author's statements on this pdga board as well as on the site knows exactly what this system can do...
It's not a putting system of a technique repair system.

-Scott Lewis


This is why I rarely go on the pdga messageboards.. the same arguments and questions pop up all the time on the same threads no less!!!!!

I think you need to realize the difficulty of expressing sarcasm on the message boards....in other words....they were joking :)

They aren't criticizing they are simply stating in a joking manner that they need help with there putting...PM me if you need further clarification of sarcasm

oh i'll be sure to.

-Scott Lewis

Taking Aplodan from Muscletech will help increase the amount of dormant muscle fiber that you use also. The majority of these dormant muscles seem to be fast twitch. I found out after taking the Aplodan for a month that my distance had increased by about 40-50ft. Downside is the stuff is expensive.


[censored]... just looked it up, found it for $55.00 for a month's supply at the instructed dosage. Yeesh.

thats in my budget for next season

Everybody seems to jump on the assumption that just because you learn to throw longer, you'll automatically throw worse or lose accuracy. Nobody seems to believe that a person could be accurate, learn to throw further and still be accurate (through whatever method or time is required).

I spoke to two players recently that played in a tournament. The first 4 rounds were short/long on day one and short/long on day 2. The course is New Quarter in VA and is a mix of long open holes and some great wooded holes.

However, for the finals, they did a Super 9 and played only the long open holes. Of course, the folks that were accurate and made strokes on the wooded holes lost to the folks that could drive it further for just that reason. They could throw 800' or 1000' in less strokes than the guys with accuracy.

The only time driving further is bad is if you don't have accuracy. This instructional training only says you can throw further. The accuracy part is up to you.

I know of several holes where being able to throw as little as 50' further would knock strokes off my game because I'd be making reasonable putts instead of up shots.

I agree. Adding distance helps the game a lot because even if you're inaccurate to that new maximum D of 440 or so... you're suddenly far more accurate to 415 since you aren't going max power on those throws anymore.

The most noticeable thing that added distance did to my game was give me more options on how to reach the spots that I previously only had one option to reach. Instead of a full strength distance shot with my longest driver, now I had options on lines and discs. While this didn't make my full strength drive any more accurate, it allowed me to use more accurate throws in more scoring situations than before.

I can still throw my wraiths further than my destroyer, I already took it out of my bag.

Did he run out of business or is it just that the webpage is down?! I would pay 40 dollars IF I got a 10-30 % increase in my maximum distance in a month

[I have to say that the writing is quite persuasive from a marketing standpoint. Look how well Destroyers are selling even though they don't really help you throw that much farther. It makes me wish that it was my idea, because I imagine it will sell. Does anyone know who is behind this?]

I disagree, I got a cfr destroyer at the 25th dogwood crosstown and it goes farther than any other disc I throw by 75-100 feet, I threw some shots on a field with wiggins jr, jeremy koling, and alot of other guys and got some really good witnessing of some distance and my destroyer is my go-to disc for big d period. If you throw it right, it really will "destroy" what you call distance.

On a further note I saw Henry Childres throw his "pumpkin" orange star destroyer over 500ft with acuracy consistently through a wooded course, he is a pro, placed 6th at am worlds and I don't think that he throws it on 480-600ft holes because his wraith can go farther.

[I have to say that the writing is quite persuasive from a marketing standpoint. Look how well Destroyers are selling even though they don't really help you throw that much farther. It makes me wish that it was my idea, because I imagine it will sell. Does anyone know who is behind this?]

I disagree, I got a cfr destroyer at the 25th dogwood crosstown and it goes farther than any other disc I throw by 75-100 feet, I threw some shots on a field with wiggins jr, jeremy koling, and alot of other guys and got some really good witnessing of some distance and my destroyer is my go-to disc for big d period. If you throw it right, it really will "destroy" what you call distance.



How far were Koling and Wiggins throwing, and were you all measuring distance? I assume Koling was throwing Forces, but what was Wiggins disc of choice?

all types of discs were thrown from aviar to destroyer to buzz to whatever not quite sure of the distances but they were farther than mine, i'm guessing in the 450-500ft+ range

Does anyone know if the guy still in business with the Throw longer system?!

I have a similar product that I will sell for $5 cheaper than whatever he is selling...

*Disclaimer- My product consists of two sentences.*

Screw The_RedHaired_One... I can give you the advice for $10 cheaper and in only two WORDS. :D

i like that people are putting their time and effort into OUR sport. it tells me that our sport is growing.
i give the guy props. i work out in a gym to help with my D and it works. when i plateu i will pay $40 to increase.

Here's all you need to know about working out in a gym to improve distance:

CORE. CORE. CORE.

I do a lot of work for balance, to keep myself from overdoing it on any one particular muscle. Mondays are chest/shoulder, Wednesdays are legs, Fridays are back/arms. And EVERY WORKOUT has Abs. Working out helps a lot, but you don't need to pay $40.00 to get workouts for improved distance.

Well there are certain costs involved in working out at a gym too though! But yeah, did this guy run out of business or was it all a joke cuz his page isn't working

Here's all you need to know about working out in a gym to improve distance:

CORE. CORE. CORE.

I do a lot of work for balance, to keep myself from overdoing it on any one particular muscle. Mondays are chest/shoulder, Wednesdays are legs, Fridays are back/arms. And EVERY WORKOUT has Abs. Working out helps a lot, but you don't need to pay $40.00 to get workouts for improved distance.



This has been true for me as well. I ride my bike to the gym, strech, work a muscle group lots of reps low weight, Abbs and then rie home. It takes about 1hr total. I got to school full time and work full time. So the price for me is, I am in the shape as I was 10 years ago when I was a Marine.
As far as distance goes i didn't set out to throw far, I was maxing out a 420 for about two years and am more than happy with that. I started a work out routine for surfing. Now that I spend time working my CORE, I am breaking 420 easy. I would also add having a good Field practice throwing regime will help as much if not more than going to the gym.

Gonna throw my question out there for like the fourth time to see if anyone will actually answer ;) does anyone know what happened to throwlonger.com? is the guy still around?

*crickets*

I dont think anyone believed in it enough to pay for it...