I am not bashing the PDGA, but as a member and supporter, I am genuinely concerned about this organization.

I am going to post an anonymous quote from a well respected disc golfer who is doing his best to promote the sport, but continues to be ignored. If he wants to reply to this thread, then I am sure he will...

"as an aside, am I to understand that there were 11,000+ current members of which 5,000 were new members?

The PDGA demographics document from 2006 states that there were 11,302 current members in 2006. It also states that the growth rate is 8-12% per annum. As of this morning, the PDGA web site lists 11,401 current members. That's a lot closer to .8% growth than 8%, let alone 12%.

... and if they had 5,000 new members that also means 4,901 didn't renew. That's an attrition rate of more than 33% ... surely these numbers can't be correct?"

also

"I was just wondering what the source was for the 5,000+ new members last year number ... even if that is a little high, it ain't off by much.

After further study, here are a few more PDGA numbers that jumped out at me:

The PDGA trumpets its annual growth rate as 8-12% annually. What they don't trumpet is that while it added 3533 new members in 2006, it lost 2326. In other words, close to 25% of the total active membership did not renew.

An astounding 3/4s of PDGA members who joined the organization between 1999 and 2001 are no longer current. Less than half the members who joined as recently as 2004 are no longer current.

The PDGA itself estimates that between 8 and 12 million people worldwide have chucked a disc at a basket at some point and half a million are active players.

So approximately 1/10th of one percent of everyone who has ever played disc is a current PDGA member and 2.3% of active players are members."

I personally would like a good explanation as to why so many members are not renewing each year. Basically, the only "growing" the PDGA is doing, is gaining new members faster than older ones quit, which is easy to do when casual disc golf is continuing to take off...

There will be those who do not renew for personal reasons, but it certainly makes you wonder why such a large # of members refuse to renew every year.

Never mind the fact that there are a lot of players who only join to support the main disc golf organization (even if we do not agree with how everything is being run) and those who join so they can compete in PDGA events and get a rating. I know these are good things, but shouldn't people want to join the PDGA for reasons other than feeling like they are forced? And yes... for me, as an improving player, if I want to make a name for myself and attend NTs, etc., then I am forced to join the PDGA... the same PDGA that can not retain many of its own members year after year...

hmmm.

My thoughts are, lots of people who sign up to play in the PDGA only play 1 or 2 events a year. After a year they may decide they don't want to play in tournaments any more. Other people who sign up are required to for certain levels of PDGA events, and may never play another event again.

Also, I think a lot of players who have been members, move up to pro too quickly and then quit after they don't make any money.

And the other reason that I had friends not sign up this year was because of the price increase to play in the PDGA.

All of those reasons combined would explain why many people do not renew.

but just as a quick check.

I am 14036. So I checked between 14000 and 14040. Out of those 40 people, 11 of them are current members. Which means that 10 years later, the PDGA was able to retain almost 30% of the members that signed up in May of 1998. That's not too bad.

hmmm.

My thoughts are, lots of people who sign up to play in the PDGA only play 1 or 2 events a year. After a year they may decide they don't want to play in tournaments any more. Other people who sign up are required to for certain levels of PDGA events, and may never play another event again.


You just pointed out a HUGE problem. People join and then "for whatever reason" they decide to quit playing tourneys or quit altogether. The PDGA needs to spend some time figuring out what this reason is! .....and I can guarentee it has nothing to do with a lack of stupid division names.

Also, I think a lot of players who have been members, move up to pro too quickly and then quit after they don't make any money.


This is highly unlikely. I think there are over 3 times as many Ams as Pros. I would bet that most of the people not renewing are Ams.

And the other reason that I had friends not sign up this year was because of the price increase to play in the PDGA.


DING! DING! If cost > value, they will not join/renew, even if you try to force them by raising the non-member fee.

All of those reasons combined would explain why many people do not renew.


.....among many other reasons.

as of right now, there are 871 players who were members in 1998 who have not renewed since.

most of the time when the retention issue comes up we have been told that roughly 30% non-renewals is "normal for associations like ours". no one has ever presented data to support this contention, but that does not mean its wrong.

I agree, those are some of the reasons I've already thought of as to why people do not renew, but that is kind of the point. The PDGA should be a little more focused on wanting players to renew.

There are a large number of players, particularly in SN land, who would love to support the PDGA, but will not do so due to the current direction the organization is going. Thing is, in SN land, we actually have tournaments to go to for those who will not join the PDGA. Many other places do not have this option, so players are essentially "forced" to join the PDGA if they want to play sanctioned tournaments. Or as my example earlier, players like me who would like to play a NT or even a major, but would not be able to unless their willing to deal with the PDGA's shortcomings.

Terry has presented hard numbers along these lines from his association connections. I think Hoeniger researched it also at one time when compiling the stats for a 10-year period. Most of the non-renewals occur from people who have only been members for one year. I think our retention rate has been much better than average once someone has been a member for at least two years.

Yeah, and we also did some surveying on this, as well as data analysis. I think we saw that the biggest loss was people who joined at the end of the first or second year, and that when asked, they felt that the membership was for people who were serious about competition and that they just weren't all that into competition. But, someone currently on the board or staff can look all that old stuff up.

A lot of our new members are young people who are excited about a new sport, but who also live rather volatile lives, in terms of frequently changing addresses, or jobs, or schools, or marital or parental status.

Many of those things can cause them to rethink the time they have for disc golf, or the money, or competition - and also can lead to the loss to the PDGA of effective communications information to be able to get them renewed annually.

I do not find it astounding that most people who joined (And I presume that means joined for the first time? Not who happened to be members that year? That's unclear in the post.) are no longer PDGA members six years later.

Think about your local league or weekly. If you get 20 guys out each weekend in the fall of 2007, and 10 of them are new to your league this year, how many of those youngsters do you expect to still be coming out each week 6 years from now, in the fall of 2017, to your league?

I think the odds are that none of them will still be coming around. Some will have moved, others will have gotten married and had kids and face other demands on their time. One might have died or been killed in some stupid war we continue to get lied-to about. Others may have moved on to darts. Who knows? You might still have one or two, and you may even have the majority of the 10 older, more experienced players still coming 'round. Maybe.

Caveat: I do not fully understand the membership numbers between 2006 and 2007. Up until through 2006, we were experiencing strong annual growth, but I don't think the 2007 numbers (at a distance) look as good. If they're not, I have my own opinion as to perhaps why not, but I'll save it for now. :cool:

Thing is, in SN land, we actually have tournaments to go to for those who will not join the PDGA. Many other places do not have this option, so players are essentially "forced" to join the PDGA if they want to play sanctioned tournaments.


I don't know where those other places with only PDGA-sanctioned events to attend are, but I can assure you that Michigan is not among them. I think we have as many events in Michigan, or more, as the entire SN has, and approximately 80 percent of them are not sanctioned.

It is a rare weekend where I do not have a multiple choice about what tournaments I might want to compete in. This weekend I have three to choose from - not a one is PDGA-sanctioned.

still, what about the players who join for 1 of 2 reasons - which fits many of those who are members for at least 2 years

1) they want to support disc golf, so they support the PDGA as the main governing body of the sport they love - this being their only reason

2) they are practically forced to join if they want to play in any big event - which qualifies any up and coming pro who wants to make a name for themselves

take away those 2 reasons and I would wager that a large # of members would not be members

this doesn't mean these are necessarily bad reasons, but I still believe the PDGA should be focusing on how to get people to "want" to be members - or as mentioned above, it should be value > cost

We have some survey data on why people join and stay joined. Perhaps a current board member or staff person can look some of that up.

I happen to think that the vast majority of our members renew in order to support the PDGA as the governing body of the sport, and I think that is a very good thing. That's the most valuable type of member to any association.

I doubt that is the *only* reason for most. I expect, and I think the survey data in the archives shows, that there are many reasons, ratings being a good one and definitely a driver for international members.

This year, for example, despite the fact that I would have joined to support the PDGA anyway, I also have so far competed in 11 sanctioned events, including Worlds, so those would have been sufficient even if I did not have an altruistic bone in my body.

Frankly, I would also have joined just to get the magazine. I hope the new one is as valuable and I have personally wished those folks the best, despite deep concerns about the opt-out policy.

So, what *other* reasons could there be for people to want to join? There've been threads on this before, so I am not going to spend time bulleting a list, but what possible reasons do you think people would have to join and stay PDGA members that are not mentioned above, Clayton?

From the ratings files, we know that the average member who has played in at least one sanctioned event during a year has 15 rated rounds that year. That would mean at least 5 events on average assuming 3 rounds per event as an average number. So somewhat less than 50% of members get $25-$30 in non-member fee savings from their membership.

We have some survey data on why people join and stay joined.


Was that data collected before or after the price of membership was raised?

I happen to think that the vast majority of our members renew in order to support the PDGA as the governing body of the sport, and I think that is a very good thing. That's the most valuable type of member to any association.


i.e. SHEEP

My guess is Yes. Between my sons pdga # of 24447 and my daughters pdga # of 33051 is a difference of 8604 new members in 3.25 years.

Here's an interesting chart though it's missing the last 3 years. Note that some are out of sequence due to special requests. Also note that the 8000 range is reserved for international members:

PDGANO JOINDATE
7100 5/24/1993
7200 6/26/1993
7300 8/4/1993
7400 8/11/1993
7500 11/24/1993
7600 8/11/1993
7700 2/23/1994
7800 12/8/1993
7900 4/26/1994
8000 4/8/1998
8100 6/8/2000
8800 12/16/2004
9000 5/16/1994
9100 6/20/1994
9200 1/12/1994
9300 3/9/1994
9400 12/19/1994
9500 12/30/1994
9600 1/31/1995
9700 3/6/1995
9800 3/25/1995
9900 4/17/1995
10000 7/26/1994
10100 2/22/1994
10200 6/24/1994
10300 8/23/1995
10400 10/6/1995
10500 12/13/1995
10600 7/6/1995
10700 2/22/1996
10800 3/14/1996
10900 3/7/1994
11000 4/25/1996
11100 2/23/1994
11200 6/10/1996
11300 7/8/1996
11400 8/5/1996
11500 8/19/1996
11600 9/23/1996
11700 9/30/1993
11800 11/27/1996
11900 1/2/1997
12000 10/12/1993
12100 3/17/1997
12200 4/14/1997
12300 5/7/1997
12400 5/28/1997
12500 8/27/1996
12600 7/9/1997
12700 8/20/1997
12800 9/16/1997
12900 11/4/1997
13000 6/17/1997
13100 1/21/1998
13200 1/30/1998
13300 3/5/1998
13400 3/19/1998
13500 4/2/1998
13600 4/28/1994
13700 5/12/1998
13800 5/26/1998
13900 6/16/1998
14000 7/7/1998
14100 8/5/1998
14200 9/3/1998
14300 10/15/1998
14400 12/28/1998
14500 1/15/1999
14600 1/28/1999
14700 2/18/1999
14800 3/10/1999
14900 3/25/1999
15000 1/21/1999
15100 4/14/1999
15200 5/4/1999
15300 5/13/1999
15400 6/3/1999
15500 7/7/1999
15600 12/14/1993
15700 9/16/1999
15800 10/14/1999
15900 11/22/1999
16000 12/6/1999
16100 1/13/2000
16200 2/24/2000
16300 3/9/2000
16400 3/17/2000
16500 3/22/2000
16600 4/12/2000
16700 4/26/2000
16800 5/17/2000
16900 5/25/2000
17000 6/1/2000
17100 7/12/2000
17200 8/17/2000
17300 9/22/2000
17400 10/19/2000
17500 11/17/2000
17600 12/29/2000
17700 1/8/2001
17800 2/1/2001
17900 2/16/2001
18000 12/29/2000
18100 3/16/2001
18200 3/29/2001
18300 4/5/2001
18400 4/19/2001
18500 5/3/2001
18600 5/17/2001
18700 5/30/2001
18800 6/6/2001
18900 7/11/2001
19000 8/1/2001
19100 9/5/2001
19200 9/20/2001
19300 10/17/2001
19400 11/15/2001
19500 12/13/2001
19600 1/14/2002
19700 1/25/2002
19800 2/14/2002
19900 2/21/2002
20000 1/25/2001
20100 3/14/2002
20200 3/28/2002
20300 4/4/2002
20400 4/17/2002
20500 5/2/2002
20600 5/9/2002
20700 5/30/2002
20800 6/13/2002
20900 7/3/2002
21000 7/19/2002
21100 8/15/2002
21200 9/5/2002
21300 9/26/2002
21400 10/24/2002
21500 11/21/2002
21600 12/16/2002
21700 1/5/2003
21800 1/15/2003
21900 1/30/2003
22000 1/9/2003
22100 2/20/2003
22200 5/24/2001
22300 3/19/2003
22400 3/26/2003
22500 4/2/2003
22600 4/9/2003
22700 4/23/2003
22800 5/7/2003
22900 5/21/2003
23000 6/4/2003
23100 6/18/2003
23200 6/25/2003
23300 7/16/2003
23400 8/6/2003
23500 9/3/2003
23600 10/8/2003
23700 11/5/2003
23800 12/8/2003
23900 1/8/2004
24000 1/15/2004
24100 1/29/2004
24200 2/11/2004
24300 3/4/2004
24400 3/4/2004
24500 3/16/2004
24600 4/1/2004
24700 4/14/2004
24800 4/21/2004
24900 5/5/2004
25000 11/19/2003
25100 6/2/2004
25200 6/16/2004
25300 7/7/2004
25400 8/4/2004
25500 8/25/2004
25600 9/22/2004
25700 10/14/2004
25800 11/10/2004
25900 12/16/2004
26000 9/22/2004

Nice, Colin, so you think that people whose actions are altruistically motivated are "sheep."

What a strange perspective. Perhaps you could explain why doing something for the greater good is acting like sheep? We might find that . . . interesting.

Terry, I was merely pointing out that you said
I happen to think that the vast majority of our members renew in order to support the PDGA as the governing body of the sport, and I think that is a very good thing. That's the most valuable type of member to any association.


You said nothing about greater good here. So if I start something called the Professional Disc Golf Growth Association, you would join just on the principle that it is the governing body for the growth of disc golf?
Giving money to something "because it's there" is what I would call....irresponsible at best. So if a governing body, in one's opinion, makes bad choices and bad decisions, one should still financially support that body just because they are the ones who get to make the bad decisions? Wait, what am I saying, I payed taxes last year, DOH!

So, where does the "sheep" part come in? I'm not a Republican from Texas, so I might be fairly naive about these kinds of things, but inquiring minds want to know.

Baaaaaa! I must be one of those sheep as I renewed this year and haven't played not even one sanctioned event this year. I renew cause I get a cool magazine (I hope it's still cool) and also get to ruffle feathers here on the discussion board every once and a while. I will continue to renew as long as there is a pdga to belong to. I know it's for the better good in the long run. And for those who have issues about renewing, well don't renew. go become a quilter or something.

- It would seem that relying solely on members to renew to support and promote the game might be short-sighted.

- It would seem relying solely on members to renew based on receiving sufficient personal value might be short-sighted.

Spending too much of your organization's resources mostly providing direct member benefits may not sufficiently serve the members looking for the sport to become big, respected and known everywhere. Spending too many resources on promotion, fund raising and longer range enhancements may erode the perceived value for those looking for tangible benefits NOW. And the ratio of potential member types varies from place to place. It's a global challenge overseen by a volunteer Board with a many times thankless job.

Chuck, that's the most logical rational thing you've ever posted on the MB. It seems to me that there is a way to do both. I think there is a way to promote the sport and serve the members by "trimming the fat". If members get many of the important benefits, at a lower cost to them, we could encourage new members to join and existing ones to renew.
I agree that the ratio of potential members varies by location, but So. Nats. country is loaded with potential members that see no value to joining the PDGA or sanctioning tournaments. I think understanding why this and then adapting to appeal to them is a very important issue in terms of the future of competitive disc golf.

I am not bashing the PDGA, but as a member and supporter, I am genuinely concerned about this organization.

I am going to post an anonymous quote from a well respected disc golfer who is doing his best to promote the sport, but continues to be ignored. If he wants to reply to this thread, then I am sure he will...

"as an aside, am I to understand that there were 11,000+ current members of which 5,000 were new members?

The PDGA demographics document from 2006 states that there were 11,302 current members in 2006. It also states that the growth rate is 8-12% per annum. As of this morning, the PDGA web site lists 11,401 current members. That's a lot closer to .8% growth than 8%, let alone 12%.

... and if they had 5,000 new members that also means 4,901 didn't renew. That's an attrition rate of more than 33% ... surely these numbers can't be correct?"

also

"I was just wondering what the source was for the 5,000+ new members last year number ... even if that is a little high, it ain't off by much.

After further study, here are a few more PDGA numbers that jumped out at me:

The PDGA trumpets its annual growth rate as 8-12% annually. What they don't trumpet is that while it added 3533 new members in 2006, it lost 2326. In other words, close to 25% of the total active membership did not renew.

An astounding 3/4s of PDGA members who joined the organization between 1999 and 2001 are no longer current. Less than half the members who joined as recently as 2004 are no longer current.

The PDGA itself estimates that between 8 and 12 million people worldwide have chucked a disc at a basket at some point and half a million are active players.

So approximately 1/10th of one percent of everyone who has ever played disc is a current PDGA member and 2.3% of active players are members."

I personally would like a good explanation as to why so many members are not renewing each year. Basically, the only "growing" the PDGA is doing, is gaining new members faster than older ones quit, which is easy to do when casual disc golf is continuing to take off...

There will be those who do not renew for personal reasons, but it certainly makes you wonder why such a large # of members refuse to renew every year.

Never mind the fact that there are a lot of players who only join to support the main disc golf organization (even if we do not agree with how everything is being run) and those who join so they can compete in PDGA events and get a rating. I know these are good things, but shouldn't people want to join the PDGA for reasons other than feeling like they are forced? And yes... for me, as an improving player, if I want to make a name for myself and attend NTs, etc., then I am forced to join the PDGA... the same PDGA that can not retain many of its own members year after year...


Wow. Logical conclusions based on solid premises and supported by data. You don't see that very much on this board. Well done.

I am not bashing the PDGA, but as a member and supporter, I am genuinely concerned about this organization.

I am going to post an anonymous quote from a well respected disc golfer who is doing his best to promote the sport, but continues to be ignored. If he wants to reply to this thread, then I am sure he will...

"as an aside, am I to understand that there were 11,000+ current members of which 5,000 were new members?

The PDGA demographics document from 2006 states that there were 11,302 current members in 2006. It also states that the growth rate is 8-12% per annum. As of this morning, the PDGA web site lists 11,401 current members. That's a lot closer to .8% growth than 8%, let alone 12%.

... and if they had 5,000 new members that also means 4,901 didn't renew. That's an attrition rate of more than 33% ... surely these numbers can't be correct?"

also

"I was just wondering what the source was for the 5,000+ new members last year number ... even if that is a little high, it ain't off by much.

After further study, here are a few more PDGA numbers that jumped out at me:

The PDGA trumpets its annual growth rate as 8-12% annually. What they don't trumpet is that while it added 3533 new members in 2006, it lost 2326. In other words, close to 25% of the total active membership did not renew.

An astounding 3/4s of PDGA members who joined the organization between 1999 and 2001 are no longer current. Less than half the members who joined as recently as 2004 are no longer current.

The PDGA itself estimates that between 8 and 12 million people worldwide have chucked a disc at a basket at some point and half a million are active players.

So approximately 1/10th of one percent of everyone who has ever played disc is a current PDGA member and 2.3% of active players are members."

I personally would like a good explanation as to why so many members are not renewing each year. Basically, the only "growing" the PDGA is doing, is gaining new members faster than older ones quit, which is easy to do when casual disc golf is continuing to take off...

There will be those who do not renew for personal reasons, but it certainly makes you wonder why such a large # of members refuse to renew every year.

Never mind the fact that there are a lot of players who only join to support the main disc golf organization (even if we do not agree with how everything is being run) and those who join so they can compete in PDGA events and get a rating. I know these are good things, but shouldn't people want to join the PDGA for reasons other than feeling like they are forced? And yes... for me, as an improving player, if I want to make a name for myself and attend NTs, etc., then I am forced to join the PDGA... the same PDGA that can not retain many of its own members year after year...


Wow. Logical conclusions based on solid premises and supported by data. You don't see that very much on this board. Well done.





ARRRRRRGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHH!

Hey Look! I disagree with Whorley. Solid numbers, factual, incredibly misinformed analysis followed by illogical conclusions.

Soooo Mr. Bisquick, tell me, how do other similarly structured and sized non-profit organizations do in terms of membership and growth? Have you bothered to look?

"Controls" you say, what are controls?


If you are going to slam the PDGA then you should at least know what you are doing. I'm happy to slam them when they do something stupid but this is Donkey Pucky. What makes it really pathetic is that this argument has been made before, I went and dug out information on similarly sized and structured organizations that show that our growth and retention rates are better than any but a very few, and I posted it on a thread. As I remember, that thread was heavily visited by some who are supporting this thread.

Sooooo, as I posted on that thread, thank you past Board members and Brian H., for growing and maintaining our membership better than 80% of the 10 or so organizations I looked at who are involved in sports, and are of similar size and structure to the PDGA.


BTW - YAWN!

BTW - if you think growth is going to be 100% with 100% retention, you're going to be very disappointed. I remember when I canceled my Capital One Visa Card. They called me.

"Mr. Ross, why are you canceling? Honestly, you are a very rare case. You've been with us for five years. Our turnover rate is much higher than that." Now, if bank card turnover is that high, that tells me something about turnover rates...

BTW - for those who are interested in controls, although I posted this, I looked at small sports that have relatively low cash flow and few pros. For example:

Volleyball
Curling
Swimming
Field Hockey
Ultimate

I looked for sports that had small non-profit governing bodies that charged fees for membership.

I also may have looked at workout centers, less relevant but very interesting. The churn for them is like 90% per annum (pulled out of my donkey but trying to convey what I remember as a revolving door for membership).

Regarding the 2006 vs. 2007 numbers, to what degree is this affected by the fact that 2007 isn't over? What percentage of new memberships come in during the last quarter of the year?

Regarding attrition, from an anecdotal viewpoint only, most of people who I played with over the last 10 years but who do not play any more, whether casually or in local minis or in sanctioned events, moved on to other things in their life. Disc golf was a passing hobby for a few years, and nothing the PDGA could have done would have made much difference. It seems to me that if attrition were due to PDGA actions or inactions, to any significant degree, we'd see lots of former-PDGA members playing as non-members in tournaments. Do we?

To me, the most valid concern might be whether the PDGA does enough to attract even more new members, in light of the inevitable attrition.

"Now, if bank card turnover is that high, that tells me something about turnover rates... "

ummmmm... for someone who is so uptight about comparing apples to apples, why are you comparing credit card turnover to sports membership association turnover?

Ultimate? R u sure about that? I have seen Ultimate clubs reach memberships of 300+ locally, and have cash flows at unprecedented amounts...f.ex. H.U.L.A. and the Philadelphia Ultimate club.

"Now, if bank card turnover is that high, that tells me something about turnover rates... "

ummmmm... for someone who is so uptight about comparing apples to apples, why are you comparing credit card turnover to sports membership association turnover?



Oh man, I should have realized, that completely invalidates everything I said! Darn!

Ultimate? R u sure about that? I have seen Ultimate clubs reach memberships of 300+ locally, and have cash flows at unprecedented amounts...f.ex. H.U.L.A. and the Philadelphia Ultimate club.



Ska, I'd have to go back and look at the post. But what you've posted isn't relevant to the topic here, turnover and growth. If the total Ultimate population is 25,000, yes it's bigger than we are but probably not in a statistically significant way. However, as I just said, that isn't the issue. If their turnover is 50% per annum, and their growth is 3%, then we are doing better in those areas. You can't look at one aspect of a situation and draw conclusions about another. I'm sure Pat would concur... or would he?

BTW - when I listed Ultimate as an example it was just that. Ultimate might have been the one that was doing better. Or, it might have been one of the cases where I couldn't find relevant information. As I wrote, the post was meant to indicate the kinds of organizations I looked at to give you a feel. Drawing conclusions from that might be, to quote other posts from Mr. Brenner, "dangerous..." :D or in tribute to Halloween, spooky.

Local Ultimate clubs are not the (inter)national organization, aka the UPA.

Turnover would be lower at the local level than upward.

The only need for UPA membership is to play in a championship series (Jrs, College, Open, Women, Mixed), although they are starting to sanction more and more local leagues and tourneys -- where nonmembers pay a $10 fee.

Most of their lost is probably people like me, who joined to play in a champ series, and then stopped renewing because I don't anymore. However, the new sanctioning push will have me renewing for the winter HUC league.

Local Ultimate clubs are not the (inter)national organization, aka the UPA.

Turnover would be lower at the local level than upward.

The only need for UPA membership is to play in a championship series (Jrs, College, Open, Women, Mixed), although they are starting to sanction more and more local leagues and tourneys -- where nonmembers pay a $10 fee.

Most of their lost is probably people like me, who joined to play in a champ series, and then stopped renewing because I don't anymore. However, the new sanctioning push will have me renewing for the winter HUC league.



Yes, I think you're saying that the reasons for turnover might be different from organization to organization and obviously what I looked at wouldn't tell you that. Very good point. On the other hand, assuming that our approx 30% turnover is because the PDGA isn't doing A (A = whatever your pet peeve is) and that the much higher turnover in other organizations is strictly do to the irresponsible nature of members and that their leadership is hugely enlightened, might be a mistake... :D

BTW Tony,

It wouldn't surprise me to learn that much of our loss is due to someone who tried something out or signed up to play a few tournaments "to see if it was worth it" similar to what you're describing for Ultimate, but I do challenge the notion that our turnover is all due to incompetence on the part of Past Boards and Brian H. Not that I'm saying that you said that or anything like that... at any time, past, present or future.

I would think that it is a lot like me.

I found the sport, played casually for several years.
Found out that I liked organized competition though my skill level was not up to it and joined the PDGA.
Worked on my game seriously for a few years to improve.
Peaked at a level that was competitive, but not impressive.
Got injured and stopped playing tournaments.

Most stories would end here with the player droppin gout of the sport. I think it is the exception that grabs the sport and sticks with it beyond the first three years.

In my case, I have been an ACE club member since 1999 and a certified official since 2001. I got involved with the organizational side of disc golf and was talked into running for a state coordinator position. Then became a marshal and a member of the course designer group and a committee member. I will probably become an eagle member as soon as my financial situation allows. I am one of those that will probably be around the game for life even if I can't play very much anymore.

you guys are totally hilarious. still barking about the same old stuff, but not seeing the forest for the trees.

membership numbers drive sponsorship

long term retention of members is awful in the pdga no matter how you spin it. the pdga grows in spite of itself due to the growth of the sport. yet only 1 out of 4 new members sticks around long term(this is a guess not an actual fact, but i think it is close).

if you charged 10-15$/year for membership, how many members woudl stick around regardless of how much they played? duh!

if you had 50-100k members, how many advertisers would pay money to reach them through the mag, website and event sponsorship compared with about 10k members?

do the math. somebody. PLEASE.

4-5 members per course is a scratch on the surface of the possible numbers. have you ever seen how many bowling congress member there are per alley? you have to be sanctioned(a member) and also pay a fee per event( like the pdga already does.

whatever, you guys wil never learn and hot tub will blather on about some stuff about how great the pdga is doing or how wrong i am to criticize...SSDD

It's not growing in Northwest Alabama. We have MAYBE a half dozen players and we had about 48 in our club last year. Players here just don't see a return on the $50 investment. That's something the PDGA has to fix. They have to make being a member more attractive.

Charging $10 (if it's true that the $5 non-member fee has been increased) for non-members to play PDGA events sure isn't going to help! I hope that is not the case.

rWc3523