Ok we set up a temp course with the Temporary Innova baskets.

My friend throws a putt and it lands on top of the basket. Then the next player makes his putt, and the disc that was on top of the basket falls through the top and into the basket also. What do you do???

We played it as his disc had already come to rest when it landed on top. Then when the next person threw, we decided that the disc that fell into the basket should not count. And placed the disc back on top of the basket. Kind of like if the disc was on the ground and someone hit the disc with theirs and the disc on the ground rolled 50 feet away. In that case, you would put the disc back to the spot that the group agrees it was laying at before it got hit and rolled away.


ANYONE know what is the right thing to do and is there anywhere in the rule book that would help you make a decision? We couldn't figure it out.

nobody has an answer??

My, you are impatient. Go read 803.07.B

that is the rule we went by.........but the thing is, is that the disc was never hit by the other disc, it just fell in as a result of the second putt going in and hitting the chains. That action caused the disc to fall from the top of the basket into the basket.

But I agree that the disc should have been put back on top of the basket.

I believe that's the intent of rule 803.07B that the disc be replaced. Otherwise, why specifically mention "supported by the basket" in the rule?

So does that rule mean that Ziggy's ace from Am Worlds (discgolftv.com kicks [censored]) should have counted? It was supported by the basket... And wedgie putts.

The rule only says that a disc supported by the basket is replaced if moved. It says nothing about where on the basket it is supported and whether that's in or out.

So it's an ace. Put it back where it was moved from.

So does that rule mean that Ziggy's ace from Am Worlds (discgolftv.com kicks [censored]) should have counted? It was supported by the basket... And wedgie putts.



Too far to tell. For all we know it was being squeezed out of the pan; moving a few nanometers a second. Sorry, no ace until the RC clears things up. :D

My, you are impatient.



Yea, seriously! He couldn't even wait one full hour for a response. http://www.bearclaws.org/forum/images/smiles/icon_rolleyes.gif

this is the internet Jeff...I want answers now!!!

just kidding, I'm just used to people jumping right on in with something to say.

I knew it was a topic that might stir up some debate.

It counts!!! Just like if your disc is in a tree and someone throws into that tree and your disc falls out before you get to it!!! Or if your putt is hanging in the chains and someone knocks it out. If another disc didnt come in contact with the disc on top it counts as good.........Just like if a discs looks to be at rest near the basket and the wind lifts it up and moves it.......You dont get to return the discs to it original point of assumed rest!!!

I'd have to say no good.... it goes back on top. Isn't this another thread somewhere.... a disc at rest on top is blown away, it goes back where it was, whether it goes in the basket is irrelevant, it's just bad luck

The people who have to putt after him can ask him to mark the disc but if they dont and it falls in without being touched by another player or another players disc then its counts if it comes to rest in the chains or the basket........Ive had it happen to me........I asked my group if they wanted me to mark my disc......They said no it didnt bother them.......It fell in the basket and was counted as a 3 not a 4.

Sorry Rookie. It's not good. Read 803.07B and tell us why it should be good.

Another reason why DROT should be good...

DROTs can be eliminated by just using baskets without any chain assemblies. Many don't realize that all of the existing PDGA approved baskets still meet the approval guidelines without their chain assemblies on them. No more DROTS, no more cut thrus and a more challenging target.

Wouldn't 803.8C let you keep the new position of the disc since it was not directly moved by another player or spectator and since the thrower had not arrived at the disc. This sounds alot like what happens in ball golf. If another player doesn't ask you to mark your lie, or you choose not to, and his ball hits yours you keep your new position, even if it means it's in the cup.

That's just what I make of it.

803.08C is only in effect if the 2m penalty rule is in effect. Second, it only pertains to discs at rest more than 2m above the playing surface.

803.08 would apply to discs suspended above the playing surface (803.08.B & D are specifically for when 2M is in effect) except for the wording of 803.07.B. In that rule, discs supported by the basket are treated as if they are on the playing surface instead of above it.

Non-counting DROTs can also be eliminated buy simplifying the rules. Chuck, your crusade to make putting harder clouds your vision of making the rules simpler to get rid of anomalies that aren't really necessary.

It should count.

It is in.

The opposite situation would be:

If you're good putt is resting in the bottom of the basket and the next putter steps up & makes his putt while knocking your disc out then you have to count another stroke to put it back in.

Alex,

You going to come up and play Piney Woods this year?

As for putting and knocking a disc out, I am pretty sure that if that were to happen the player could argue the disc had come to rest and he/she was therefore 'holed out'. By the way, I now always pull my disc after putting so that a) my disc does not act as a trampoline for someone else's disc and b) so that I don't have to argue the state of at rest of my disc.


It should count.

It is in.

The opposite situation would be:

If you're good putt is resting in the bottom of the basket and the next putter steps up & makes his putt while knocking your disc out then you have to count another stroke to put it back in.

It all comes down to how you read 803.13.

803.07.B only guarantees you a location, not a status.

It should count.

It is in.

The opposite situation would be:

If you're good putt is resting in the bottom of the basket and the next putter steps up & makes his putt while knocking your disc out then you have to count another stroke to put it back in.



You've gone mad. ;)

Gary,

Thanks, my mistake, I had thought that the definition of holed-out was when the disc was at rest in the basket, but it clearly states it is only holed out either after the disc is removed from the entrapment device or strikes the marked area of the designated object target. However the Q&A on DROT states the disc, once at rest, if struck, must be put back. This would also apply if a disc was at rest and knocked out of the basket.

I still think that the best thing is to remove a disc after putting to keep this question from coming up.

That is the problem with the two rules, and I would really like a clearly stated Q&A on the subject to remove any doubt

803.07.B appears to be talking about location as it applies to marking the next lie while 803.13 is addressing completion of the hole. The problem is that it is not intuitive to place a disc back into the basket merely to mark it's location on the playing surface directly below the disc.

However, if the wording of 803.13 was changed to not require that the disc remain in the basket until removed, then the problem of determining how long a disc must remain at rest before it counts as holed out would start. Virtually all wedgies are effectively at rest momentarily, no more running to the basket to grab the disc before it can squeeze out.

You have to think that how long a disc must be at rest is a place the writers did not want to go, so the requirement of intentional removal remains. You should also recall that the requirement was previously that the player that made the shot had to be the one to remove the disc. The new wording allows anyone to remove the disc.

Mad? Who me?? (hmmm...only when three putting from inside 20' or when hitting the first tree off the tee that really is not even close to the intended line of flight)

I am wrong again. Oh well. It just seems to make sense that in is in and out is not in.

Please just show me where to throw from and point out the target. After the hole is completed tell me the number to put on the scorecard. It used to be so simple.

I'll just defer to the rules zealots and TD to make the call.

Jerry, still don't know if I can make it yet...I really want to! It sounds like y'all have worked hard on the courses and the JD benefit is a great cause so hope to participate. Am juggling job, family, car, and elbow issues so am pretty much day to day as far as playing.

BTW...just reread a thread from a couple years ago that is almost identical to this one.

"Virtually all wedgies are effectively at rest momentarily, no more running to the basket to grab the disc before it can squeeze out."

I never run to get my wedgies because of this rule. It is at rest and if it is moved, it goes right back where it was, holed out. So many people tell me I need to run and get it quick but I don't, it's stuck, it's still, it's at rest. If it's working its way out I would be willing to bet that 99.99% of the time it was never at rest, that's why it's still moving, so it's no good.

Discs are inanimate objects, they can't create their own energy, when they run out of transfered energy and no longer have an energy acting on them, they stop and come to rest.

This rule seems pretty black and white to me, disc at rest that is moved, goes back from where it came. As for how long must it be at rest, once it has stopped moving it's at rest. I don't believe I've ever seen a disc move after it has come to rest unless it was acted upon by some other outside force, which isn't fair, that's why it goes back from where it came, whether it benefitted the thrower or not.

What if the disc was stuck in a tree well over 6'6"? Then fell out cuz a gust of wind knocked it down before you made your upshot. I would say no penalty stroke. If you took your upshot from where the disc landed on the ground. Group decision?

Carlos, read the rule book. 803.08C. No penalty if it falls out BEFORE you mark your lie under it.