Nice Craig. Good to know the Boards of the past 16 years have all been myopic! With 1 notable exception from 06-08 of course! That's quite a conspiracy! Funny just from this thread alone Id have thought the magazine was important. Evidently not!


I don't consider it a conspiracy Brian, I look at it as a combination of ambivalence and fear. Avoiding the issue means not rocking the boat, which has and continues to be a recognizable pattern for the majority of the BoD members over the past 2 decades. It's not an insult, merely an observation. While I recognize that many feel the mag is important - it is less so to me personally (which is what I said).


Given there may be noone among PDGA Board and staff today who has a clue about 1992-95 competition system debates, save the very recently returned Rothstein, you might try a) growing G tiers in MADC which presumably is already happening = the local level b) submitting a proposal free of the dripping sarcasm to the Competition Committee (c/o the ED if you dont have an alternate address) = the national level, or better still c = a + b.


Yeah sorry for the syrup. I get carried away sometimes :) And thanks for the suggestion - and I have been doing my format experiments for about the last 6 or 7 years with varying divisional schemes (and varying success). The sliding scale seems to have gotten the best reception so far - across the skill spectrum. As regards making a proposal to the BoD to change the competitve system, I think I like my head in its current shape, and will forego any reshaping due to banging it against a brick wall (i.e. I have zero confidence that any proposal I write - no matter how well written, or how well supported by event statistics- would be well received, considered OR acted upon by the BoD). If the BoD, or the ED, or the CD, or the Tour Mngr, would do half of the statistical evaluation I have done, they would see plainly that action is warranted. Having suggested the means and methods on more than one occasion without response, my opinion of ambivalence is continually reinforced.


True you might be advised that hey the existing system already allows for MPO + MPG + MA2 + F?? events and the X tier accomodates such imaginatives as descending entry fees based on ratings, but hopefully a well written proposal plus the success of the 08SCS will garner more consideration and even a commitment to promote it.



Here's where we get to the leadership part. Offering yet another choice in the great scheme of event sanctioning is not leadership. Promoting competition in a fair and balanced way is. Telling TD's "here you go do whatever you want, just send us X$$$ per player and we'll sanction your event" is not leadership (that's called marketing). Evaluating your competitve system and tweaking it every so often to approach the goals of your mission statement might be considered leadership. Adding a new set of divisions every couple years so everybody can be a winner could not.

What exactly is the long-standing policy involving TDs who are late in sending in payments?



Does anyone know where I can find the info about this? HQ is not responding to this question, maybe there are certain procedures that were supposed to be followed that have been neglected?

If I am heading this way, I want to know all there is to know about it so I can defend myself from those that seek persecution.

John, there sure is nothing in the Sanctioning Agreement that specifies a penalty. it just says you'll agree that non members wont be able to play unless they pay a $10 non-member fee in lieu of membership. (which is actually a membership, but that inconsistency is another story.)

unless it says somewhere else, i'd say that you do not even need to send the money to the pdga - it is not clear at all who gets the money, just that the non-member needs to pay it.

i'm not a lawyer, but penalties usually need to be spelled out. if there is nothing else you've signed, i wonder if the pdga can legally take ANY action whatsoever against a "late" TD. one wonders on what basis any TD could possibly be late. is there a document missing form the links in TD resources?

Not sure where to look - I think the "rule" (whether written or not) used to be if you were late paying fees that the event could lose it's sanctioning the following year. I think the degree of "lateness" played a significant role in that consideration.

Not very punitive, as people got around that by changing TD's, making nice, and promising to do better than their predecessor.
I think there is at least one member on the disciplinary list that is there due to not paying fees (at all).

What exactly is the long-standing policy involving TDs who are late in sending in payments?



Does anyone know where I can find the info about this? HQ is not responding to this question, maybe there are certain procedures that were supposed to be followed that have been neglected?

If I am heading this way, I want to know all there is to know about it so I can defend myself from those that seek persecution.



It is all in the Tour Standards Document (http://www.pdga.com/files/documents/09TourStandardsV1-1.pdf)

Table 1 states fees are due in 30 days. The Miscellaneous section states the consequences for late payments. The link is to the 2009 version, but as far as I know, this information has not changed for the past couple of years.

i'm not a lawyer, but penalties usually need to be spelled out. if there is nothing else you've signed,



Now that you mention it, I seem to remember it was the other party involved (the financial party) who sent in the sanctioning agreement. So I don't remember signing anything for that event.

Is my signature on that document Brian G.?

when reasonable efforts to remind a TD to meet the terms of the sanctioning agreement within published timelines go unresolved.



Do these reasonable efforts include not mentioning anything to to offending Td "on record" for 9.5 months?

And then after being assured that it has been settled, not hearing anything else for 10 months?

"Tournament directors whose results and/or fees are not received by the published deadlines may
face potential disciplinary actions including removal of their official�s status and suspension from
PDGA events. TD�s with event fees over 90 days late will not be allowed to direct another
sanctioned event until all fees are paid in full."

thanks for the reference Disceete, that helped find it.

the wording is so loose it probably cannot beenforced. first of all it says "may". assuming you'll find uneven enforcement for the same violations, t would be tough for the association to sink teeth into any attempt to force the (non)TD to pay. of course, if enforcement has been consistent then its a sdifferent stopry. but BG's post indicated otherwise. my money is on john winning any legal action. i hope the association increased its legal budget for 2009. a little birdie is telling me that they're gonna need it.

i'm not a lawyer, but penalties usually need to be spelled out. if there is nothing else you've signed,



Now that you mention it, I seem to remember it was the other party involved (the financial party) who sent in the sanctioning agreement. So I don't remember signing anything for that event.

Is my signature on that document Brian G.?



Well how about it B. Graham? Share with the group so we can all see. Was the DisCrazy owner the one who sent in the sanctioning paperwork for the 2007 DisCrazy Shootout?

Well how about it B. Graham? Share with the group so we can all see. Was the DisCrazy owner the one who sent in the sanctioning paperwork for the 2007 DisCrazy Shootout?




Dear John,

I have already explained to you several times that you were the TD of record for the 2007 DisCrazy shootout and your name appears on the sanctioning agreement therefore you are the person responsible for submitting event results and fees to the office by the stipulated deadline.

john apparently does not have a copy. if his memory is that someone else sent it in, he has a valid question as to the signature. i'd like to see it also at this point.

john apparently does not have a copy. if his memory is that someone else sent it in, he has a valid question as to the signature. i'd like to see it also at this point.



What?

His question is this "Is my signature on that document Brian G.?"

Brian has already stated "your name appears on the sanctioning agreement"

Job done.

john apparently does not have a copy. if his memory is that someone else sent it in, he has a valid question as to the signature. i'd like to see it also at this point.



What?

His question is this "Is my signature on that document Brian G.?"

Brian has already stated "your name appears on the sanctioning agreement"

Job done.


Or not. Maybe Santa Claus, Rudolph, Black Peter, or some other third party wrote johnrock's name on the agreement.

john apparently does not have a copy. if his memory is that someone else sent it in, he has a valid question as to the signature. i'd like to see it also at this point.



What?

His question is this "Is my signature on that document Brian G.?"

Brian has already stated "your name appears on the sanctioning agreement"

Job done.


Or not. Maybe Santa Claus, Rudolph, Black Peter, or some other third party wrote johnrock's name on the agreement.



Regardless of who wrote the name down on the document, John has agreed he was the TD of record for the event. No signature necessary with admission of this fact.

Regardless of who wrote the name down on the document, John has agreed he was the TD of record for the event. No signature necessary with admission of this fact.




We also have the fact of the owner of DisCrazy has contacted HQ, has accepted the responsibility of the event, and has apparently agreed to send payment or some other arrangement.

I'm not sure why I haven't been notified of the fees being paid, I was told the money order had been sent many days ago.

Who would have guessed?

Apologies and plans.
Page 3
"Another round of deeply felt apologies."
...........
...........
"We promise to start looking stuff up better. No more taking the word of an intern or pulling info off Craigslist or Wikipedia."
and page 5 is Rich's notice that
"Visit any of the hundreds of major bookstores and newsstands that'll be carrying the magazine. [in 2009]."

And they include a postcard so you can subscribe for up to two years.

Good to hear! At first glance it looks like they are putting together a better product.

I've got 3 issues in the last month.

the sport is busy this time of year :)

I've got 3 issues in the last month.



the last issues have looked pretty good. i'm actually considering subscribing to it as it plans to publish next year... i also may choose not to renew my PDGA membership, though if a tempting A tier comes up down the road i might be forced to bite the bullet and anti up to an organization that has moved of late in directions i am not fond of... blocking non-members from posting on the Discussion Board, blanketing it and slowing it down with ads, being hypersensitive to criticism and displaying a disconcerting dislike for transparency...

normally i would still want to support the PDGA since it is one of the major faces of disc golf, but time$ are tough ...

They have def improved. Wondering whether I'll pay the pdga again myself. I dont think I played 1 sanctioned event last year. (I did have back probs, hopefully the surgery has helped enough to get me back out there.)

[censored] don't tell me I have to start lookn over my shoulder again.

Watch out now ;)

Ashevill Ice Bowl tomorrw Get There

Too soon for that. I had a blast at that new course Ice Bowl a couple years ago. Hows that course coming along? Was it in west jefferson?