I've been fooling around with my formula for calculating how many courses are "nearby". I calculated the rating for the area around each course in the U.S. The single geographical point with the highest concentration was this little place up near Ashland, WI.

http://stevewestdiscgolf.com/images/Ashland.jpg

Note that I was looking for single points of concentration. So, for example, while Chicago didn't have a single point with as many courses as near, it certainly has more courses around the general area.

http://stevewestdiscgolf.com/images/Chicago.jpg

There are a few more graphs of other cities on my website.

Steve West Disc Golf (http://stevewestdiscgolf.com)

Interesting....how about the areas with the most secluded permanent course.

I'll call your sarcasm and raise you a philisophical question:

Can you find the lowest point on a mountain?

Anyway, isolated places don't make pretty pictures. The MOST isolated places don't have any courses at all.

Here's McMurdo Flights in Antarctica. Notice the distortion from working with latitude and longitude that close to a pole.

http://stevewestdiscgolf.com/images/McMurdo.jpg

Back on the mainland USA, Highland Park in Tonopah, Nevada would be about as isolated as you can get and still be near a course.

Two questions, Steve:

1) Do you have a color-coded map of the U.S. you can display?

2) Could you make an overlay of said map for use with Google Earth or ArcView?

Steve,

Working with what you've already done and taking it one step further: What if you interpolated your course-density data with that of the US population-density data? The purpose of this would be to obtain "Where is the most logical place to place a dgc" (in the place where it's most needed)...that being in the place where there is the least dgc per capita. This of course assumes two things, 1. That all people, no matter where they live, are equally inclined to play dg and, 2. That a course COULD be built there.

Karl

Two questions, Steve:

1) Do you have a color-coded map of the U.S. you can display?

2) Could you make an overlay of said map for use with Google Earth or ArcView?



1) Not color-coded. See the US map at my website for all the courses marked according to their size. At the scale of the US, the color-coding would be kind of meaningless. A single pixel might cover several courses.

2) Don't know how. Or why. And, I wouldn't trust my data enough to have anyone zoom in too close.

But for both questions, if you're interested in an area, let me know. It's easy to crank out a graph. All I ask is that you first verify the coordinates of the courses in the area.

Steve,

Working with what you've already done and taking it one step further: What if you interpolated your course-density data with that of the US population-density data? The purpose of this would be to obtain "Where is the most logical place to place a dgc" (in the place where it's most needed)...that being in the place where there is the least dgc per capita. This of course assumes two things, 1. That all people, no matter where they live, are equally inclined to play dg and, 2. That a course COULD be built there.

Karl



I've attempted to do that. See "Busiest courses that don't yet exist" in the Course Design and Installation forum.

It turns out to be many-fold more difficult to make a map of where courses "should" go. At least, the way I did it. Essentially, I produced a color-coded graph with the existing courses, and multiplied the score at each location times the population. Then, I did the graph again with a potential course. The difference in the total "people-baskets" of the city was the value of a course in that location.

I tried the method out for the Minneapolis/St. Paul area, and it took literally days and days of solid computing time to produce a graph of the value of putting a course at each point across the area.
Of course, most of the time, there are only going to be a few possible locations for a course. It would not be too difficult to run a what-if for a handful of locations.

The assumption that all people, no matter where they live would play disc golf is interesting to examine. The little data I have suggests that in areas with relatively few disc golf courses, the percent of the population that disc golfs is small. And the more courses, the busier they all are.

So, perhaps all people would be equally inclined to play disc golf, if we build enough courses to support a player base.

The little data I have suggests that in areas with relatively few disc golf courses, the percent of the population that disc golfs is small. And the more courses, the busier they all are.




<font color="red"> (whisper)...If you build iTT, TThey will come... </font>

Steve,

If I had your database of course locations and number of holes I could easily import it into ArcView GIS and turn it into a color-coded density map. The same could be done with the course information combined with population.

Neat. I'd like to see the Dallas map with extended milage though. We have 30+ courses in the D/FW metroplex.

cool stuff!... here's the Charlotte map

http://stevewestdiscgolf.com/images/Charlotte.jpg

Steve,

If I had your database of course locations and number of holes I could easily import it into ArcView GIS and turn it into a color-coded density map. The same could be done with the course information combined with population.



PM me.

Neat. I'd like to see the Dallas map with extended milage though. We have 30+ courses in the D/FW metroplex.



They're all on the graph (except maybe one just off the right side). Count 'em.

i have a hard time believing there is anywhere more concentrated than dallas. from my house (irving, tx 75061) the course directory gives me this:

20 courses within 20 miles
27 courses within 30 miles
31 courses within 42 miles
40 courses within 99 miles

Twin Cities: Zip code 55077 (my home)
21 courses within 20 miles
32 courses within 30 miles
40 courses within 42 miles
100 courses within 99 miles

i have a hard time believing there is anywhere more concentrated than dallas. from my house (irving, tx 75061) the course directory gives me this:

20 courses within 20 miles
27 courses within 30 miles
31 courses within 42 miles
40 courses within 99 miles



This isn't including the 6 that are in some stage of install. Mace's new course that went in this moday. Harmony Hills a private course in McKinney. Or the 7 courses under proposition.

"Twin Cities: Zip code 55077 (my home)
21 courses within 20 miles
32 courses within 30 miles
40 courses within 42 miles
100 courses within 99 miles "

d'oh!!!

can you play all of those 12 months a year like we can?? :)

Cinncinatti?

The one closest to me is played every Tuesday night with glow sticks all winter with as few as 4 on the "colder" nights below zero. St. Cloud has recently been the regular winner of the Ice Bowl fundraising.

I was just checking and I think for courses within 100 miles the Twin Cities zip codes smoke anywhere else with close to 100 courses listed. The fact that St. Cloud and Rochester areas are also hot beds within 100 miles of the Twin Cities really helps. I tried Cincy, Ann Arbor and Charlotte. I think Dallas is just barely behind the Twin Cities for a metro area for courses within 30 miles.

chicago?

chi-town had 30 w/in 30 and 93 w/in 100.

Looks like NW Chicago may be second place on the 100 miles count. What hurts them and any other coastal cities is the big section of their radius that includes water like Lake Michigan.

man...i had no idea...i thought we were the disc golf mecca here in dalllas... :)

man...i had no idea...i thought we were the disc golf mecca here in dalllas... :)



mecca would still likely be charlotte, des moines, or pittsburgh for quality over quantity.

spotsylvania va has a strong group of courses for somewhere its size as well. ;)

If I were forced to move, within 100 miles of Charlotte would likely be one of my top three choices from a disc golf standpoint. Considering I designed, installed or advised on more than half of the 100 courses within 100 miles of my home, I would hope I could do the same within 10-15 years where ever I went. :D

glad to hear props for our area (Charlotte)... but you'd better be safe... i got in trouble on here for implying that our courses were better than those around us.

seriously though... as mentioned before... this is some cool stuff you are doing Steve.

Any way you could do the color map like you did but only show 18 hole courses? would be interesting and from what i've heard Chicago would go dark with all the 9 holers they have.

20 courses within 20 miles
27 courses within 30 miles
31 courses within 42 miles
40 courses within 99 miles


man...i had no idea...i thought we were the disc golf mecca here in dalllas... :)



They don't understand that you can fit 13 MN and 12 IL inside of TX. So when us Northern Mexicans see so many courses in our backyards we get all excited b/c they could all be really, really far away yet in the same State. :p

Instead of number of courses, use either the total yardage or total number of holes (not many 9 holers in TX, don't know about MN). And here's the kicker - multiply it by the percent of "playable" days per year. For starters, you could use the growing season and then bump that up by a factor for those cold-loving DGers, but the factor could go no higher than 1.

That might help to return DFW to DG Mecca! Lots of holes and almost all year to play them!

any chance the cincinnati area can get analyzed?

Do it yourself. Just enter any zip code you want to check on the first page of the PDGA Course Directory and let'r rip. That's how we've been doing it.

Cincinnati (using 45220 zip code):

4 courses within 5 miles
8 courses within 10 miles
16 courses within 20 miles
23 courses within 30 miles
25 courses within 42 miles
58 courses within 99 miles

And just for grins, the furthest course from Cincinnati, OH (found by clicking Last in the directory), is Otumoetai in Tauranga, New Zealand, about 14,920 miles away. Although no holes are listed, so it might also be the shortest course in the directory.

pittsburgh for quality over quantity.



Couldn't agree more with that. Pittsburgh now has three world class courses at Moraine State Park, Knob Hill, and now Deer Lakes.

pittsburgh for quality over quantity.



Couldn't agree more with that. Pittsburgh now has three world class courses at Moraine State Park, Knob Hill, and now Deer Lakes.



good call... but as Hero or someone else pointed out... can you play them right now? or year round? I mean without gloves/boots/shovelling teepads and putting ribbons on discs?

This is a great point about if a place could be considered a DG mecca... it'd be like NJ arguing about how they get 'good waves' for surfing... that'd be nice and all but when they can do it year round in other places they have a big advantage.

regardless... i def. have a pitt trip in the works for next year to get in a steelers game and a round at those courses!

glad to hear props for our area (Charlotte)... but you'd better be safe... i got in trouble on here for implying that our courses were better than those around us.

seriously though... as mentioned before... this is some cool stuff you are doing Steve.

Any way you could do the color map like you did but only show 18 hole courses? would be interesting and from what i've heard Chicago would go dark with all the 9 holers they have.



One of the parameters of the formula is the value to assign to a course, based on the number of baskets. For these graphs, I set a value of 18 for 18 baskets (duh!). I guessed that additional baskets (over 18) had less marginal value. (Because sometimes you just don't have the time to play them all.)

Also, I thought that the value of smaller courses should be more than proportional to the number of their baskets - you can play a nine-holer twice. It's not as fun as playing 18 unique holes, but it's more than half as fun.

So, a 9 hole course would get a value of 12.72, and a 27 hole course would get a value of 22.04. So, far, these guesses have been supported by data supplied by players (where they play, and how often).

But I'd like to hear opionions. Are 9-holers really worth nothing?

I would think that 9-holers would be less than half of an 18, maybe only 4 or 5 in the weighting. Your adjustment on the high side of 18 looks appropriate. If we're talking about traffic at 9 versus 18 hole courses where they are equally close to the same player base, it looks like 18 holers draw 5 to 10 times as many players. If those playing the 9-hole courses typically play them more than once, it means even less different players are playing the course than an 18. There are examples where courses have been upgraded to 18 holes after being in the ground for many years where the traffic exploded. Lions Park in the Twin Cities is a great example of one going from 12 to 18 and getting a significant boost in traffic.

i have a hard time believing there is anywhere more concentrated than dallas. from my house (irving, tx 75061) the course directory gives me this:

20 courses within 20 miles
27 courses within 30 miles
31 courses within 42 miles
40 courses within 99 miles



In my earlier work, I tried using the "X courses within Y miles" criteria to find places where there are a lot of disc golf courses. What you find is places with a lot of disc golf courses out at the edges of the Y-mile circle.

For example, there is a place with 133 courses (with 1,962 targets) within 100 miles. That's the most anywhere, in case you're keeping score. Sounds great, until you realize it's in the middle of Lake Michigan. Here's the graph (this graph is 200 miles across, the others are 60):

http://stevewestdiscgolf.com/images/LakeMichigan.jpg

No matter what scale you use, you usually get the same kind of result � an area between two or three concentrations of courses. In the Twin Cities, the middle of the airport has a lot of courses within 25 miles, but none nearby.

I would think that 9-holers would be less than half of an 18, maybe only 4 or 5 in the weighting. Your adjustment on the high side of 18 looks appropriate. If we're talking about traffic at 9 versus 18 hole courses where they are equally close to the same player base, it looks like 18 holers draw 5 to 10 times as many players. If those playing the 9-hole courses typically play them more than once, it means even less different players are playing the course than an 18. There are examples where courses have been upgraded to 18 holes after being in the ground for many years where the traffic exploded. Lions Park in the Twin Cities is a great example of one going from 12 to 18 and getting a significant boost in traffic.



Hmmm. Compelling. The people who can decide whether to put in a course will be more concerned with how many visitors it gets, rather than how much fun it is.

Before I go and change all my graphs, here's what happens to Chicago when 9 hole courses are worth only 1/4 as much as 18 hole courses:

http://stevewestdiscgolf.com/images/Chicago2.jpg

Does that look more "right" to someone familiar with Chicago?

OK, I went back and re-did the formula, and used a better search method. Further details, and the new slide show is up on my website.

Anyway, Cincinnati showed up as having the most complete "coverage" of any 60 mile square area I've found.

http://stevewestdiscgolf.com/images/02Independence.jpg

Grand Rapids still shows up as having the best single spot for a disc golfer to live (if you ignore weather and everything else besides proximity to baskets).

http://stevewestdiscgolf.com/images/01Kentwood.jpg

Go look for your town: City Graphs (http://stevewestdiscgolf.com/citygraphs.aspx)

Has anyone ever done most courses per state's square milage or most courses per state's population? I bet Iowa comes out on top with for those 2.

Has anyone ever done most courses per state's square milage or most courses per state's population? I bet Iowa comes out on top with for those 2.



You are partially correct; Iowa has fewer people per hole (and per course) than any other state. "Only" 1,818 Iowans share each disc golf hole in the state, or 22,818 people per course.

However, Iowa falls behind both Antarctica and the Yukon in these categories. The 1,000 or so people in Antarctica have a 9-hole course all to themselves. And, the 31,100 people in the Yukon share 3 courses with a total of 45 holes.

Back to Iowa: If a group of 4 tees off every five minutes for 10 hours per day, each course could handle 480 people per day. At that rate, it would take about 48 days to get every Iowan to play a round of disc golf.

At the other end of the list, there are 58,905 people sharing every disc golf hole in New Jersey (726,494 per course). It would take over four years for them all to play.

In terms of density per square mile, Delaware wins. They have one hole for every 17 square miles, or one course for every 277 square miles.

Iowa is second in course density, with a course for every 433 square miles. But, Massachusetts barely beats out Iowa in hole density, with a hole for every 32 square miles. That's because they build bigger courses in MA. MA has an average of 18.17 holes per course � the only state that averages over 18. Iowa builds small courses, an average of 12.55 holes per course � the fifth lowest.

The entire sortable list can be found here: Courses by State (http://stevewestdiscgolf.com/numbers.aspx)

Massachusetts barely beats out Iowa in hole density, with a hole for every 32 square miles. That's because they build bigger courses in MA.


But does Iowa win when the tide is out? :D