I am planing to play the famous Red Hawk Course in Crystle River Florida in January. Anyone got any tips? Also, i know they rent carts, can i have my wife and kid ride in it and my self walk? Do i need to have a tee time? Proshop with tee shirts? Any other info would be great. Thank you

No tee time needed. When I lived in Florida and played that course, I always just walked in and was on my way. I do believe they will charge you extra for your wife and kid to go out, but worth the experience. Pro shop has lots of shirts if I remember correctly. As for tips.....I dont know where to begin. Just dont throw it over any pathways or in the water. Go for the green on hole 5 on your 3rd shot unless you can throw around 400'. Have fun!

Good advice Ron! I would also add bug spray (mosquitos and midges) and wear clothing in layers. That part of FL can see fairly dramatic temp changes during the day. Bring a camera b/c every time I go there on my own I see lots of wildlife. I've seen gators walking the fairways, manatees w/young in the spring by hole 2, otters, ospreys, hawks, and snakes.

Have either of you heard anything about Red Hawk Closing for good? PLease send me any details on this as i am planning to stop there on jan 9th. Thanks

As a matter of fact, I had just heard the same thing about the course being removed from the plantation Inn. That is why I got back on here to try and find out. Apparently there are new owners of the property that dont like disc golf and alot of the "pro" disc golfers were not acting professionally off the course. Someone else will have to confirm that I am in the right neighborhood on this one. First the Canyon and now Red Hawk??? Man, that would suck. I also heard the PDGA is getting involved about the behavior of some of the players. This is along the lines of hearsay so I may be wrong. If it is closed when you go down there, I would highly reccomend playing in the Tampa bay Area. There are 5 courses really worth playing in St.pete/Clearwater/Sarasota area. They are about 1 hr and 15 minutes- 2 hours south of the plantation inn. Does anyone else have any information regarding the Red Hawk?? I feel so bad if it is true because Mike Barnett and Denny Ritner worked their tails off to get that course where it is.

What courses are you refering to that i should play? do any of them offer carts like the red hawk? or are the top caliber that the red hawk was/is? thanks

Im talking about Cliff Stephens(Clearwater), N. Water Tower park(Sarasota), Maximo park(St.Pete), Coachman park(Clearwater), and Taylor park(Largo/Clearwater). Those are in order of what I would certainly play first. There is a course on a ball golf course in Dunedin which is right outside of Clearwater that offers a cart and is pretty long and is called St. Andrews links, but is no way comparable to Red Hawk if you are set on having the cart experience. Either way, there is plenty of golf to be had in the Bay area.

i am in florida on vacation and was today informed by a local golfer that YESTERDAY was the last opportunity to play the Red Hawk Course in Crystal River. Evidently the Plantation Inn complex has been sold to an individual who is not dg friendly. I was set to play it tomorrow, darn it all!!!

Someone just told me its in for 2 more weeks. I'd call them and ask.

according to the pro shop it will be removed some time in mid-january. thanks chris.

Does anyone have a FOR SURE answer on when this is closing. I plan on playing it on Jan 9th. Thank you for any input.

the staff at the resort did not have a definite answer.

Hey all,

It is with great sorrow that I announce that after 5+ years of diligent planning and hard work, the Red Hawk Disc Golf Course at the Plantation Inn is expected to come out of the ground in mid to late January.

With new ownership taking over 2 years ago, I look back now with the vision of hind sight and realize that it was just a matter of time, as the new ownership was heading in a different direction, but I also realize that sometimes disc golfers are their own worst enemy and can speed up a process or even nullify the hard work of others by being foolish and ultimately, selfish.

Because there is an ongoing investigation (with help from the PDGA) into the problems encountered during the Players Cup, I will not comment further on the specifics (namely who) of the reasons that the Plantation Inn gave during the final meeting, but here were the 3 primary complaints:

~Overwhelming smell of marijuana in the hotel and on the course
~Destruction of hotel property
~Lack of respect for course rules - dress code, golf cart abuse, overall conduct

Typically I would not indulge those who wish us harm by shedding some light on the details, but since I lost a course and collectively, we lost the home for a PDGA major, I think it's appropriate. I would like to state that this range of violations came from players, spectators and, much to my dismay, even from some staff members, but no one party is more to blame than the other in my opinion as I look at it as a "group effort". In all fairness, most of these violations were never brought to my attention by the hotel staff until 2 weeks after the Players Cup during a meeting and thus proves to me that hotel was hoarding the information to use in their case to dissolve our relationship, but I really can't even blame them.

I am currently working on several deals to try and find a home for the baskets before we pull the course to make the transition quicker and easier. This is the primary reason that I don't have a specific date yet that course is coming out and hopefully the Plantation Inn will grant me a bit more time to complete a deal. With that being said, we are also going to be looking for a new home for the Players Cup, a process that is already in the works.

I would like to thank Discraft and all of those who helped along the way for this truly special opportunity, Red Hawk, you will be missed...

Wow........

It is hard to believe that the PDGA has a hard time securing big time sponsors for Majors!

This is sad...Could one even begin to think this would happen at a major championship in ball golf or any other sport for that matter?

To those who worked so hard to make this course and tournament a reality I feel for you.....Let this be a lesson to all of us.

I am sad for the sport today!

Steve

Very sad to hear that Red Hawk will be closing down. Our family has built our Christmas vacation around a stay at the Plantation Inn for the past three years. This year, we got to play it twice last week. We stayed at the Inn for just 2 nights and also managed to fit in a manatee tour and massage at the spa. (Red Hawk wasn't just a nice course and unique experience, but it was also a GREAT place for vacation because of all the other activities available!!). Not that it was going to be of any help this time around, but I made a point of telling everyone I met that we were there for disc golf, and only because of disc golf, and very sorry that we won't be back next year since we've really enjoyed our three stays there. (no help, but at least I felt better about it!!).

We'll be going to back to Florida for family disc golf vacation in winter though. Lots of great courses, great weather ... how can you lose?

Here's some more recommendations from a disc golf tourist (in addition to those posted by an earlier respondent):
- don't miss the Turkey Lake courses in Orlando. The T2 is a must. The original Turkey Lake course (T1) 1 is fun too. (T2 is callled the Turkenator, but its not long, just requires intelligent throws.) I'm sure there's something else in that big park that would entertain even small children.
- Daytona's Tuscawilla Park is a real treat. Not much else in the park, but also right close to the speedway and malls, or maybe the non-disc golfers in the party would want to hit the beach while you play
- Ocala Greenway - We enjoy the course but I don't know of anything else to do there except bike/hike the greenway.
- Spirit of the Suwanee Park in Live Oak (also to be the site of La Vie En Rose tournament in Feb) -- LOTS of other activities there for non-disc golfers though I understand that sometimes they have big music festivals etc that pre-empt the possibility of playing the course (check their website for details)
- Fore Palms in Jacksonville. Play there on Saturday AM and non-golfers can watch the folks with SERIOUS model airplanes -- dozens of them.
Other comments -
- If you get to Clearwater, stop in at the Clearwater Disc Golf Store. (that is, if there's anything left on your debit card!)
- Maximo Park (Tocabaga) is a stunning setting plus there's lots of playgrounds, bird watching, etc there. If you only can play one course in Clearwater, I'd suggest Cliff Stephens ... but if you want to please the non-discgolfers too, play Tocabaga in the afternoon with the sun setting over the water.

I am sad for the sport today!

Im sorry to hear that all that hard work put in by you and others is now coming to an end at Red Hawk. I was planning on playing it when Im down during the superbowl, but I guess I'll have to resort to somewhere else. Maybe I can meet up with you at Floral city or something when Im down. I hope you find another site that is as accomodating and as challenging as the Red Hawk/Plantation Inn. Thanks for all that you do for disc golf and the players, Mike! Its sad that players in the open division could represent us in such a way that causes us to lose a site like that. I know that you said that the new owners were'nt exactly pro disc golf, but the alleged behavior didnt help any. Maybe its a wake up call for our sport and I hope that the people responsible for our reputation in Crystal River are held accountable.

Is there a dress code at Red Hawk?

Don't know, but it was a PDGA major, and there is a dress code for that. From the pictures you could see not everyone was abiding by it.

You must have a collared shirt to play the Red Hawk course. That is the course rules set by the Plantation Inn. I am not sure why individuals were even allowed to start their rounds at the Players Cup with a T-shirt or Dry fit when the course rules are collared shirts.

This is very sad. I think the Player's Cup had garnished just a little too much of a "vacation" reputation and people acted as such. I'm not going to call anyone out b/c I'm certainly not perfect and it is not my nature, but many people would be surprised by how some high profile people in our sport feel like they can party like rock stars with inpunity. I do know with some certainty that one room at the Plantation was seriously messed up. Not so much straight vandalism, but complete selfish disregard. This could really be a tipping point in our sport.

i say call them out. the hurt of losing a top notch place like this needs to be felt. otherwise, it will happen again. how terrible would it be if winthrop university decided that there was too much pot smoke, destruction of property and general misconduct?

bad behavior continues until it is punished. public accountability is a good start.

I am with Dixon, call them out, it is the only way we will ever be able to change things around.

i say call them out. the hurt of losing a top notch place like this needs to be felt. otherwise, it will happen again. how terrible would it be if winthrop university decided that there was too much pot smoke, destruction of property and general misconduct?

bad behavior continues until it is punished. public accountability is a good start.



I'm sure many of the people that were staying @ the Plantation know what I know firsthand, so I would rather let someone with firsthand knowledge divulge. I will say with respect to the Winthrop comment that the room trashing offenders were not sponsered by the Player's Cup title sponser but rather the title sponser for that Winthrop tournament...I've also heard that their sponser is dealing out consequences. Perhaps they will be visible, perhaps not.

I'm not sure if witch hunting these people is really worth it anyway. We all need to take a look at the nature of our sport and the image we give off. Many DG'ers party like rock stars, and by that I mean conspicuous and foolish buffoonery AT THE EXPENSE OF SOMEONE ELSE. In this case it was at the expense of the entire PDGA. I have never been quite convinced that the PDGA needed to police individual's behavior (through Marshalls and TDs), but now I'm starting to wonder. Certain things should not be seen, smelled, or mentioned in the context of DG. It needs to BE KNOWN FOR CERTAIN that if you are noticed doing illegal things @ the course then you are DQ'd, period. Sponsers should care more too, because many of these transgressions are done while the individual is still brandishing the logos of their sponsers. This is a problem that every singke member of the PDGA needs to confront themselves and their friends with if it is ever going to change.

I appreciate the concern and conversation from everyone and feel that it's a good start to fix this problem that is plaguing our sport in more ways than one. This is a golden opportunity to put into action your frustrations, meaning using the Red Hawk as an example in your local Disc Golf scene as a reason to improve things that are detrimental to progress. It still amazes me at how many Disc Golfers don't realize that they are the primary reason for the way the outside public sometimes views us and why we have a hard time growing the sport in certain areas. Take a look at this article that came out a week after I found out about Red Hawk:

http://www.mailtribune.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20081218/NEWS/812180330&emailAFriend=1

It's time to make a stand folks...

Just an FYI, the Plantation Inn informed me today that they will not allow any play on the course after this Sunday, January 11th. The course itself will not be pulled for several more weeks as I try to finish negotiating home(s) for the baskets.

wow, that article you posted is an embarrasment. (hangs head for the way disc golfers behave sometimes)

COME ON GUYS! Softball fields generate more problems then do golf courses as far as drinking and fights and bad driving. The golf course they are talking about was worse than BB Owens in dallas as far as crappiness. It was a nine holer that had 3 t-pads set up to make a 27 hole course. It was smack dab inside of a housing addition surrounded on each side. Oregon is a medically legal state so i am sure that it had a lot less to do with ganja than it did the drinking. The folks that tore up the rooms in Florida, just did not get spanked enough as kids and the adult spanking are far worse . being discreet about anything is the best way to be. Being flamboyant is what is the problem. I am here to tell you that there are more smokers that play big time basketball (percapita) than in disc golf. Occasionally you get Josh howard but more often than not you get Kris Bosh, who smokes but plays hard and still wins the gold medal. Calling all smokers: stop being a pack douches and learn to be more low key. The difference between being bad and stupid is that stupid gets caught.

EXACTLY!

Are basketball players lighting up in the middle of the basketball course for the whole world to see?

What you do on your own personal time on your own personal property matters to me very little. Keep it off of the course...

it doesn't matter if it was just a practice basket in the middle of a field. the general public doesn' know it was a "bad" course. what they know is that disc golf, something they probably haven't heard of, has participants that behave in ways that the city deems disruptive and the local elementary school finds dangerous. great publicity.

smoking discreetly isn't the issue. don't do something illegal in public. regardless of whether or not you think the legality is reasonable. if they pass a law tomorrow that says i can't drink a bottle of water in public. i may choose to rebel but i have to be willing to get a ticket or go to jail for my refusal to submit to the laws.

Simpler terms:

Leave your stash at home.
Act on the course like you would at the mall or any other public place.
Use the system in place to change the laws you don't like. Being "discrete" is being a cowardly idiot.

The problem with discreet is that it is by nature a matter of judgement. Some of my middle school students believe they are being discreet when I catch them cheating, writing notes, etc. Discreet to them was not discreet to me. Likewise, there are a lot of people on the course who believe they are being discreet, but if I was an officer, TD, potential sponser, or a member of the community with contrasting values, I would definetely notice.

One interesting fact...since I have moved to FL there are fewer of these conflicts since so many of our courses are in crime-ridden neighborhoods!:D

Mike,

I am sorry for you and your great staff that worked hard on developing a great event from scratch. The course was good and I have a pretty good idea who those culprits of the bad behavior are and I really think that being great at disc golf isn't the same as being a rock~n~roll star and to trash the place once their done with it. I wish you good luck on the baskets and if you can't find a place for them I may have a few inside tracks on buying them and relocating them.

This is an absolute disgrace for the sport of disc golf. i cant imagine what a corporate sponsor would think if they put their money on the line for a PDGA major to have something like this happen.
Good thing our sport hasnt been able to land big corporate sponsors. We are obviously immature and not ready to be professional. The sport of disc golf and our "porfessionals" would embarrass themselves...

I found this post over at DGRUS. It was posted by someone who was at the event.

Here is the link: http://discgolfer.ning.com/forum/topics/...7Comment1554172 (http://discgolfer.ning.com/forum/topics/should-the-pdga-investigate?page=8&commentId=1809917%3AComment%3A1 554172&x=1#1809917Comment1554172)

Here is the post:

(naughty words edited)

Here's my two cents....I was there.

I thought the field was generally well behaved....I didn't smell the "overwhelming" smell of (edit) smoke anywhere. I'm not saying I didn't smell some...just not to the extent of what's being perceived, no where even close.

Remember, Ball Golf is just as diverse, particularly over the past 20 years or so. What happens on a disc golf course, as far as partying, happens on the Ball Golf course too. So for them to cite the partying aspect is like the "pot calling the kettle black". really. I seen my share of raving lunatic drunken ball golfers.

I didn't see anybody trashing the course or golf carts. (Edit), the only folks who had carts were staff members once the official rounds started. I did hear that last year (07) a cart was left on the course...and they were (edit) about that.....it wasn't trashed...just simply left out there. As far as the PC staff goes they were the most professional I have ever seen.

As far as the entire field, staff included, all but a very, very few respected the green/sandtrap rule...don't walk on the greens, the edge of the bunkers or through the sand. Those who did, I would guess simply didn't know any better. The only time I seen someone walking across a green was in the gallery following the leaders..Two guys walked right up through the middle on the way to the basket, I had to remind (in reality) educate a spotter more or less jokingly..." that unless your playing golf and are putting, golf courses prefer if you stay off the greens" The spotter nor did the walkers knew that. Now on this particular hole, the disc golf fairway brought that green "nuts" into play...which if your trying to respect the Ball Golf course...that was a design asking for trouble, IMO.

I only seen one guy in or around the edge of a bunker....he was sitting on the edge of a bunker with his feet in the sand playing with a camera...I remember thinking.... "I hope no one from the Ball Golf side of this sees that".....Anybody wanna take a stab on who that was? It's worth a chuckle...even if it's a gasping in disbelief chuckle.

As far as the dress code being an issue...that's BS. Half the field didn't wear a collered shirt at one point or another...the PC shirts in the players package didn't have collers. It was a seemingly a none-issue. I personally wore a collered shirt the whole time I was there...some didn't though...but like I said it was a none-issue at the time.

I believe The Plantation was looking to remove the course as it where....and some of the activity and reasons behind it took place over a longer period of time and were blown way out of proportion to suit their evential agenda...what happened at this years PC regarding the rooms being trashed was likely "the straw that broke the camels back" , so to speak... It was likely going to happen sooner or later. With or without any alleged activity.

I did hear that at least 1 room was in a condition outside of the normal scope of your average houskeeping personel....was it destroyed?...doubt it.

I would have to say that one of the biggest obstacles for a Disc Golf course on a private Ball Golf course is the acceptance by the Ball Golf crowd....it's never going to happen 100%...some may think it looks like fun and is different, while others don't really care. But there will be an overwhelming bunch that think it's a joke and doesn't belong. Those folks will make the biggest stink about infractions of any kind...just to suit there own personal agendas or there closed minds. Those regulars are the bread and butter of any Ball Golf course...not the Disc Golfers.

I grew up running around terrorizing Ball Golfers on the private club my parents belonged to. Golfers are fanatical about their game...they don't want it interfered with...period!

So the lesson learned here, is when playing disc golf on a ball course...be extra mindful of what you do, how you act...there are a quite few who don't want you there....believe it or not!!!

Treat your disc golfing on a Ball Golf course...like your on "Double Secret Probation".

I think it was a little mix of both. Being that the Plantation Inn management were looking for reasons to pull the course and we gave them reasons to look to pull it. But i wasnt there, and about 99% of the disc golf community wasnt there either. so all we go by is the fact that, for whatever the reasons are, the Plantation Inn people had reasons to want to disconnect themselves from the disc golf scene. that in itself is enough to make someone ashamed for our sport.

As far as Ball golfers partying it up, lol, they have established themselves as a gentlemens, professional, established sport. in some ways they can get away with that.
Disc golf, on the other hand, hasnt even been around long enough. we CANT act like anyhting else but a professional sport at all times at every event, because we are just now building a reputation for ourselves.

I would have to say that one of the biggest obstacles for a Disc Golf course on a private Ball Golf course is the acceptance by the Ball Golf crowd....it's never going to happen 100%...some may think it looks like fun and is different, while others don't really care. But there will be an overwhelming bunch that think it's a joke and doesn't belong. Those folks will make the biggest stink about infractions of any kind...just to suit there own personal agendas or there closed minds. Those regulars are the bread and butter of any Ball Golf course...not the Disc Golfers.



Personally I think the speed of play issue is the biggest obstacle for a disc golf course on a ball golf course. Your average sixsome of disc golfers plays about twice as fast as a twosome in ball golf. And ball golfers usually aren't very happy when others ask to play through, especially when it's disc golfers playing through. If you've got a few foursomes of ball golfers out on the course, you might as well just forget it, or resign yourself to the fact that you're going to play a miserably slow round of disc golf.