Jeff_LaG
Jul 08 2009, 12:40 PM
From: http://www.google.com/hostednews/canadianpress/article/ALeqM5gd7j7X3cWhKmQdMatFreLo5hsfVg
USGA thinking about changing par at Chambers Bay ahead of 2015 U.S. Open
By Doug Ferguson � 15 hours ago
BETHESDA, Md. � The U.S. Open typically plays as a par 70, which requires converting a couple of par 5s into par 4s. There are a few par 71s, such as Torrey Pines, where USGA setup man Mike Davis wisely decided to leave the 18th as a par 5, leading to one of the most memorable finishes.
Par has not been decided for Chambers Bay outside Seattle, site of the 2015 U.S. Open. It could be a par 70. It could be a par 71.
It very likely will be both.
"You can't change par in the middle of a tournament," Tiger Woods said, thinking aloud as he tried to process the possibility.
Considering that Davis isn't afraid to break the unwritten rules, the possibility is very real.
"One thing I'm absolutely positive we'll do in the future, perhaps in 2015 at Chambers Bay, is play a hole certain days as a par 4, and certain days as a par 5," Davis said in a telephone interview over the weekend.
Davis mentioned the first and 18th holes at Chambers Bay, which he felt could be played as either a par 4 or a par 5.
"We would hate to make a decision one way or another, because they could be such a good par 5, and such a good par 4," he said. "I would hate to give up playing it multiple ways because we have a set par."
That could be a first - a U.S. Open where par for the four days would be 282.
"Par is just a number," Paul Goydos said with a shrug when told of the concept. "All you care about is the total score. What wins is 277, not 3 under or 5 under.
He figured big hitters would have an advantage on a par 4 that measured 525 yards, such as the seventh hole at Bethpage Black. Turn that into a par 5, and big hitters still would have an advantage by reaching it in two with less club.
"Someone will complain either way," Goydos said.
There surely could be some complaints on this one, for no other reason than trying to change par once the tournament starts.
"It might be perceived as goofy," Davis conceded. "But all we're looking for is the low 72-hole score. That doesn't change."
GRADUATED ROUGH: Mike Davis of the USGA first introduced graduated rough at Winged Foot in 2006, and it has been a standard at the U.S. Open ever since. He'll have his work cut out for him at Congressional in 2011.
Staggering the height of rough requires a lot of property, and there was plenty of it at places like Torrey Pines and Bethpage Black. Congressional, however, is a traditional, tree-lined course. The trees on some holes are about 10 yards from the fairway.
In other words, there's not a lot of room.
"Some courses work better than others for that, but the answer is we'll definitely graduate it," said Davis, who will be coming to Congressional in two weeks for early planning. "Some places it will be tough for sure, not only with the trees, but with some of the holes being parallel, you need to move spectators. So we're not going to get the width we want.
"The ideal situation is to never have a player hit it outside the ropes unless they really, really miss one."
One thing Davis knows for certain - the sixth hole, which was a par 4 at the '97 U.S. Open and in the last three years at the AT&T National, will play as a par 5. There already is a new tee to add significant length, and Davis said the pond wrapping around half the green makes it more prudent to accept wedge instead of 3-iron or hybrid.
"I hated it as a par 4," he said of the '97 U.S. Open. "It's not shaped for a par 4."
Congressional still will play as a par 70, with the plan to move the tee slightly forward on the 16th and convert that to a par 4.
"That would be the classic par 4 1/2," Davis said. "The green is somewhat receptive to a long shot. If you made it a par 5, nobody would argue that it's a great par 5."
I liked this article if for no other reason to show that ball golf is thinking about a hole where par could change mid-tournament, which would certainly be accomplished by a longer teebox (perhaps 50-100 yards longer) to go from a par four to a par five. It also makes me think of how I've run across some people in disc golf over the years who have philisophical issues with longer teeboxes changing the par of a hole; they feel that the course should be designed such that par should stay the same no matter which teebox or polehole position is used. In other words, alternate tees and pin positions are usually fairly close to each other.
I personally enjoy seeing courses like Warwick where the long teebox or long pin position may be some 300 feet longer and turns a par 3 into a pro par four hole, or a pro par four into a pro par five. Looks like ball golf might be going that route as well.
USGA thinking about changing par at Chambers Bay ahead of 2015 U.S. Open
By Doug Ferguson � 15 hours ago
BETHESDA, Md. � The U.S. Open typically plays as a par 70, which requires converting a couple of par 5s into par 4s. There are a few par 71s, such as Torrey Pines, where USGA setup man Mike Davis wisely decided to leave the 18th as a par 5, leading to one of the most memorable finishes.
Par has not been decided for Chambers Bay outside Seattle, site of the 2015 U.S. Open. It could be a par 70. It could be a par 71.
It very likely will be both.
"You can't change par in the middle of a tournament," Tiger Woods said, thinking aloud as he tried to process the possibility.
Considering that Davis isn't afraid to break the unwritten rules, the possibility is very real.
"One thing I'm absolutely positive we'll do in the future, perhaps in 2015 at Chambers Bay, is play a hole certain days as a par 4, and certain days as a par 5," Davis said in a telephone interview over the weekend.
Davis mentioned the first and 18th holes at Chambers Bay, which he felt could be played as either a par 4 or a par 5.
"We would hate to make a decision one way or another, because they could be such a good par 5, and such a good par 4," he said. "I would hate to give up playing it multiple ways because we have a set par."
That could be a first - a U.S. Open where par for the four days would be 282.
"Par is just a number," Paul Goydos said with a shrug when told of the concept. "All you care about is the total score. What wins is 277, not 3 under or 5 under.
He figured big hitters would have an advantage on a par 4 that measured 525 yards, such as the seventh hole at Bethpage Black. Turn that into a par 5, and big hitters still would have an advantage by reaching it in two with less club.
"Someone will complain either way," Goydos said.
There surely could be some complaints on this one, for no other reason than trying to change par once the tournament starts.
"It might be perceived as goofy," Davis conceded. "But all we're looking for is the low 72-hole score. That doesn't change."
GRADUATED ROUGH: Mike Davis of the USGA first introduced graduated rough at Winged Foot in 2006, and it has been a standard at the U.S. Open ever since. He'll have his work cut out for him at Congressional in 2011.
Staggering the height of rough requires a lot of property, and there was plenty of it at places like Torrey Pines and Bethpage Black. Congressional, however, is a traditional, tree-lined course. The trees on some holes are about 10 yards from the fairway.
In other words, there's not a lot of room.
"Some courses work better than others for that, but the answer is we'll definitely graduate it," said Davis, who will be coming to Congressional in two weeks for early planning. "Some places it will be tough for sure, not only with the trees, but with some of the holes being parallel, you need to move spectators. So we're not going to get the width we want.
"The ideal situation is to never have a player hit it outside the ropes unless they really, really miss one."
One thing Davis knows for certain - the sixth hole, which was a par 4 at the '97 U.S. Open and in the last three years at the AT&T National, will play as a par 5. There already is a new tee to add significant length, and Davis said the pond wrapping around half the green makes it more prudent to accept wedge instead of 3-iron or hybrid.
"I hated it as a par 4," he said of the '97 U.S. Open. "It's not shaped for a par 4."
Congressional still will play as a par 70, with the plan to move the tee slightly forward on the 16th and convert that to a par 4.
"That would be the classic par 4 1/2," Davis said. "The green is somewhat receptive to a long shot. If you made it a par 5, nobody would argue that it's a great par 5."
I liked this article if for no other reason to show that ball golf is thinking about a hole where par could change mid-tournament, which would certainly be accomplished by a longer teebox (perhaps 50-100 yards longer) to go from a par four to a par five. It also makes me think of how I've run across some people in disc golf over the years who have philisophical issues with longer teeboxes changing the par of a hole; they feel that the course should be designed such that par should stay the same no matter which teebox or polehole position is used. In other words, alternate tees and pin positions are usually fairly close to each other.
I personally enjoy seeing courses like Warwick where the long teebox or long pin position may be some 300 feet longer and turns a par 3 into a pro par four hole, or a pro par four into a pro par five. Looks like ball golf might be going that route as well.