I am not a big fan of temp holes. I like 18 holes, not 3-6 extra gimmies out in a field. It seems that more temp holes are added to good courses all the time. I think it really waters down the challenge. It's not the natural teepads or single chain temp baskets that bother me, it's just the fact that it's not 18 holes. How does the PDGA view more and more TD's adding temp holes, basically to add more players?

I don't ever see ball golf tournaments adding extra holes to accommodate extra players.....just wondering if this is a trend going forward.

I am not a big fan of temp holes. I like 18 holes, not 3-6 extra gimmies out in a field. It seems that more temp holes are added to good courses all the time. I think it really waters down the challenge. It's not the natural teepads or single chain temp baskets that bother me, it's just the fact that it's not 18 holes. How does the PDGA view more and more TD's adding temp holes, basically to add more players?

I don't ever see ball golf tournaments adding extra holes to accommodate extra players.....just wondering if this is a trend going forward.
Don't think the PDGA views temp holes as a bad thing at all so long as the holes are designed well enough to provide a proper challenge. Fitting more players is fine with them also, I would think. It's not as though 18 is some kind of magic number in this sport. It's actually pretty arbitrary (both in disc golf and ball golf). And what about courses that have 21 or 24 or 27 permanent holes? Should tournaments on those courses only use 18 holes?

The reason you don't see ball golf tournaments adding extra holes is because a) it's pretty tough to create "temporary" holes given the landscaping involved with making the permanent ones and b) their tournaments use tee times to fit large fields (most PGA tournaments, for example have 150 or so players in the field).

We are a sport for which our playing venue can be created anywhere. All we need is a target, really. That's one of the beauties of the sport, IMO. That we don't need a permanently installed course in order to play.

We typically run temp holes for our event. These holes are planned out well in advance, included in the scorecard and course routing information, and use course quality baskets (Chainstars). For some events, these temp holes are once a year holes that players look forward to. Many players like playing more golf. Adding holes is a way of providing that and making the event a little different than coming out to the course at any other time.

I think it is important that the TD take the time to design temp holes that are as good as the course you are playing. In that case, most of the time, I'd rather play 2 X 21 with three good temp holes than 2 X 18. The Illinois Open Series guys do design some good temp holes. The temp holes at Sinnissippee all feel like a part of the course.

I am not a big fan of temp holes. I like 18 holes, not 3-6 extra gimmies out in a field. It seems that more temp holes are added to good courses all the time. I think it really waters down the challenge. It's not the natural teepads or single chain temp baskets that bother me, it's just the fact that it's not 18 holes. How does the PDGA view more and more TD's adding temp holes, basically to add more players?

I don't ever see ball golf tournaments adding extra holes to accommodate extra players.....just wondering if this is a trend going forward.

couldn't agree more. also, big noooo to fivesomes. both of these frequently occur because td's want to make some more money (or lose less) by having more am's play. i'm more than willing to pay an extra $5 or $10 that goes straight to the td in order to not have temp holes or fivesomes.

less is more.

Josh,

"We are a sport for which our playing venue can be created anywhere. All we need is a target, really. That's one of the beauties of the sport, IMO. That we don't need a permanently installed course in order to play."

While I agree with your statement above in principle, one (not necessarily you - I think you understand) has to be very careful with this premise because someone COULD make up temporary holes which...
1) HE likes
2) Don't "fit" the other holes on the course
3) Could be construed as really "stoopid, unfair, sadistic, off-beat, flukey, etc."
...and that would / does have an impact toward peoples perception of our sport as "a real sport" - and not just some strange flash-in-the-pan activity by a bunch of weirdos.

Most permenant courses are set up / approved with a LOT of input by the land owners, designers, town's powers-that-be, et al so the outcome is staid (and I use that in a GOOD sense).
A lot of temporary holes COULD be really goofy.
ALL holes CAN be viewed by people outside the sport...people who COULD be eventual 'movers and shakers' to our sport without us (at the present time) even knowing it...and might get a bad taste in their mouth - and thus "hurt" us de facto in the end.

Karl

I think temp holes have a place in our sport. Think of all the Worlds Final 9 videos. Most have several temp holes or safari holes. It makes the event spectator friendly and easier to film and ultimately more marketable. Most courses weren't designed with spectators in mind so we need these temp holes to provide space and add more challenge to the players.

I think temp holes have a place in our sport. Think of all the Worlds Final 9 videos. Most have several temp holes or safari holes. It makes the event spectator friendly and easier to film and ultimately more marketable. Most courses weren't designed with spectators in mind so we need these temp holes to provide space and add more challenge to the players.

Adds to the argument that major championships should be played on major championship venues. They don't have a temp-hole final 9 at the USDGC.

"Spectator Friendly Final 9" always strikes me as the tail wagging the dog.

First consideration should be the quality of the holes, competition-wise. All things being equal, choose a layout that is also spectator-friendly. Playing a weaker layout for the benefit of non-existent media makes little sense to me.

I'd rather have a difficult-to-watch, great finish than an easy-to-watch, boring finish, anyway.

I have two arguments with temp holes, and they are more practical issues rather than theoretical.

1. Many times, TDs will add holes at the last minute just to get more people in the tournament. This "the more the merrier" approach is player friendly, to an extent, but why would a TD make it more difficult on himself? Also, how many holes do you add? If you add holes like this on a regular basis, it also discourages pre-registration, as the TD will let in anyone anyway.

2. Holes added in the above circustance are typically quickly done, and usually poorly thought out.

If a TD knows he's going to allow more players than his course would traditionally allow, and the TD designs those extra holes ahead of time and plans for it, then temporary can and do work well. It's just my experience that usually that doesn't happen.

I have two arguments with temp holes, and they are more practical issues rather than theoretical.

1. Many times, TDs will add holes at the last minute just to get more people in the tournament. This "the more the merrier" approach is player friendly, to an extent, but why would a TD make it more difficult on himself? Also, how many holes do you add? If you add holes like this on a regular basis, it also discourages pre-registration, as the TD will let in anyone anyway.

2. Holes added in the above circustance are typically quickly done, and usually poorly thought out.

If a TD knows he's going to allow more players than his course would traditionally allow, and the TD designs those extra holes ahead of time and plans for it, then temporary can and do work well. It's just my experience that usually that doesn't happen.

Really! When you say "last minute" do you mean the day of an event? I doubt ANY TD only contemplates adding temp holes on the morning of an event. Think of the pre-planning for even a short, wide open temp hole. You need a basket, tee markers, sign and yardage info, scorecard & scoreboard alteration. Where do you see this happen?

Really! When you say "last minute" do you mean the day of an event? I doubt ANY TD only contemplates adding temp holes on the morning of an event. Think of the pre-planning for even a short, wide open temp hole. You need a basket, tee markers, sign and yardage info, scorecard & scoreboard alteration. Where do you see this happen?

I've seen it. Granted, it was a long time ago that I saw it. but it has happened. And I've been to plenty of tournaments over the years where the TD (or players) will have a portable basket or two set up near tournament central or the parking lot for warm-up/practice. Doesn't take much to roll one of them out into a field and pick a spot to tee from (I've seen tees marked by lawn chairs, spare tires, picnic tables, whatever was available...on pre-planned temp holes too). We were just instructed to draw a slash through the box on the scorecard for the hole prior to the temp hole and write both scores in the same box.

I think the instances of this are certainly fewer now than they might have been years ago, though. While a lot of tournament promotion used to be printed flyers, mailers, and word of mouth, everything now is 95% online. Online registration, online pre-reg lists, even online pre-planning. Few players these days leave the house on tournament morning without knowing they have a spot and won't get shut out, so there are fewer players showing up at tournaments who might make a stink if they're shut out. And it seems like it's avoiding turning those players away that would lead to the impromptu extra holes in the first place.

I have never liked temp holes for most of the same reasons cited by John Chapman. I have never seen one that was well-designed and as such, they detract from the quality of the tournament.

I have never liked temp holes for most of the same reasons cited by John Chapman. I have never seen one that was well-designed and as such, they detract from the quality of the tournament.

Of course not every temp hole is going to be well-designed but neither is every permanent hole, don't poorly designed permanent holes detract from the quality of the tournament too, or are they better than ANY temp hole because they are permanent? This thread has gotten dumb.

Really! When you say "last minute" do you mean the day of an event? I doubt ANY TD only contemplates adding temp holes on the morning of an event. Think of the pre-planning for even a short, wide open temp hole. You need a basket, tee markers, sign and yardage info, scorecard & scoreboard alteration. Where do you see this happen?

I've seen it. It's not hard to quickly add a couple of holes in an open area to get 4 or 8 more people in.

As for it detracting from the course, I never viewed it that way. You are still throwing every one of the holes on the course, its not like the one or two additional takes away any of the other 18. If the original 18 are great, they still will be. But now 20 'cards' will get to enjoy them.

The main thing I don't like about temp holes is that all the good terrain that is available is typically already used up in making the permanent holes, so the TD is left trying to either fit a hole into a cramped area with lots of asphalt OB and cars lining the road getting in the way, or else gimmicking up island holes and gratuitous double mandos trying to make a short open temp hole "more interesting."

At one tournament, the line to the basket on one temp hole was across a road and became temporarily blocked by little league parents parking their cars in the way. We had to chase them down and get them to move the cars, or else different cards would have played vastly different courses.

Of course not every temp hole is going to be well-designed but neither is every permanent hole, don't poorly designed permanent holes detract from the quality of the tournament too, or are they better than ANY temp hole because they are permanent? This thread has gotten dumb.

That logic is sorta like, "Vote for Mitt Romney. Yes, he's weird, but so is Michelle Bachman."

Yeah I was thinking it was starting to sound like politics when I was responding again. Like I was standing up for the temp hole party who is oposing the permanent hole party but everyone giving only generalized reasons on why they're better or worse. That's why I ended the post with the word "dumb".

Yeah I was thinking it was starting to sound like politics when I was responding again. Like I was standing up for the temp hole party who is oposing the permanent hole party but everyone giving only generalized reasons on why they're better or worse. That's why I ended the post with the word "dumb".

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