Every time we add a tourney to the PDGA site, someone from Gateway calls us with the 'hard sell' on their tourney packages and asks misc questions I'd just rather not be asked.

As a result of Gateway Disc Sports TELEMARKETING, there's no way I'd consider Gateway products if they paid me to take their stuff.

Do they just not have a clue that telemarketing makes people angry? Do they think we don't know how they got our number? (I use a Google Voice line specifically for this purpose and always list it as my TD contact phone).

Is there some way the PDGA can ask them to stop this invertebrate-like practice?

Did you put your GV number on the do not call list? If so. tell them they are in violation of telecommunications law. If not, it's perfectly legal for them to call you.

Have you asked them to stop calling? I did and have not received a call since.
Can you not see their number on caller ID and just not answer?

Yes, I am on Do Not Call but they don't seem to be aware or don't care.

Next step, FCC?

Appreciate your posting this, especially the part about their asking questions you'd rather not answer. I use my business line as my tournament contact number, because it's a disc golf business and even if they don't get me when they call, they'll get someone who can answer their question. I received a call from Gateway the other day that I missed because they called at 5:01 and I closed and left at 5:00. They did leave a voicemail which I was planning to return. Now, maybe I won't.

They were calling about one tournament, which I wasn't interested in adding anything to in terms of player pack or whatnot, but I figured if they're looking to sponsor an event, I've got others that I'm always willing to take sponsorship for. But if it's just a hard sell on their tournament packages, it doesn't sound like I'd be talking to someone who could negotiate with me. And I'm not interested in buying packages I'm not already budgeted for, so no matter how hard the sales pitch is, I'm not interested.

Does it upset anyone else they're harvesting info from the PDGA tourney schedule listings for Unsolicited Commercial Email and Telemarketing purposes?

I got one recently as well.

I don't really see it as a big deal.

If a call from a company asking me to use their product for my event is the worst / most annoying call I get about my event, I would say my job is fairly simple.

Does it upset anyone else they're harvesting info from the PDGA tourney schedule listings for Unsolicited Commercial Email and Telemarketing purposes?

Not a bit.

From my viewpoint, if a disc golf related enterprises (for profit or not) contacts me about a disc golf related activity (for profit or not), because they found out about me on a disc golf related website......no surprise, no problems.

I've got a small retail store and have been contacted by manufacturers. I've got a private course and have been contacted by Fly18 about their pads. Doesn't bother me at all.

Running a PDGA tournament shouldn't be an invitation to be solicited, especially when your phone number is on the FCC Do Not Call list.

When becoming a TD and listing contact info, I believe you waive your "Do Not Call" rights to not be contacted by parties with legitimate interests pertaining to your event whether it be potential players, volunteers, sponsors or vendors. That's all part of the deal you signed on for as TD or event contact person. If someone selling carpet cleaning got your number off the PDGA site, that would fall under your Do Not Call protection.

The do not call guidelines specify that to be cold-called by a business, you must have done business with that company in the past. I have never done business w Gateway.

Chuck, if your explanation be the case, I'll just have to request to opt-out of providing my personal contact info via PDGA and direct everyone to our club website instead. Fortunately, Google Voice also has a phone number blacklist.

I think you have unreasonable expectations for who should legitimately be able to contact you as a TD when you actually post any contact info whether phone, email or address. You don't have to talk with people once they identify themselves or their reason for calling. But to disallow people to even contact you that have a legitimate interest in your event in some way, doesn't make sense. Just like email, if you don't want your main email address or home/cell phone to be known, set up an alternative for DG activities.

Jebb,
I apologize if our unsolicited phone call inconvenienced you, (I actually over heard the call it lasted around 30 seconds). It wasn't any sort of hard sell or terror,, a simple question on whether you were interested in getting some information about our event custom stamp sponsorship packages.
We've removed you from our list and will make sure not to call again.. I'm truly sorry about the call we made to you.

To whom it may concern;

I am also one of those people who get sick and tired of unsolicited calls ( but the calls I'm talking about are from politicians, mortgage and insurance companies).

Our justification for calling TD's and clubs is below, although I'm fairly certain its not a sufficient for everyone, i feel compelled to explain.

A td getting a call from a disc golf company offering a great deal on an event sponsorship packaged seems like a good call to make and a good one to receive.

My phone rings non stop and my email in box gets full with the opposite scenario every single day. Event and league TD's and even individual players are looking for us to sponsor them or their events. Ive never been offended and field just about every single call and email and have for over 17 years since we started Gateway Disc sports in 1994!

We also receive phone calls and emails from players from all over the country, basically telling us how hard it is to get our product. Weve created a lot of good products and a decent demand for them. Unfortunately I have not spent enough time trying to get our product in more stores and at more events.

It didnt seem like it would be a problem to be a little more pro-active and offer to help out the very same events (that by a huge % who would wind up contacting us anyway,, and usually at the last minute). By contacting a TD earlier in the season we would have enough time to get the art for custom stamping worked out and a sponsorship package that would help make the tournament a better experience.

If after the first day of calls we would have met resistance, we would have surely stopped making them and chose a different route to expand our exposure and distribution outlets.
Events ( pdga and local) are a great way to accomplish both and I feel we give away plenty enough in the packages to make it at least worth while to hear about ???

Seeing as we are only doing business with 600 or so of the 6000 entities that sell discs, use them for players packages or prize out with them,,, it seems like we have a lot of work to do to reach our customers. It didnt seem like contacting TD's would cause such a reaction and it most definitely hasn't so far,,,, except for one isolated incident and another cat who simpley stated he wasnt interested in Gateway.
The constant stream of calls from people who would like to buy our discs or have a chance to get them in players packs or prize out with them (through events and leagues) seemed to me like calling TD''s was a good idea.
We've made about 450 calls to TD's. clubs and league directors in the past 2 season About 200 last spring and 250 this year so far, with only 1 person getting upset about the call and a few who courteously said they were "not interested" and a few others asking us to remove them from the list because they were no longer involved with the event.

We have have been an extremely generous company with our sponsorship support for PDGA events, local events and leagues for 18 years with little or no complaints regarding these win/win relationships. Heck I thought everyone liked great deals and free stuff, but at the same time can appreciate the loyalty to ones " Favorite company". The thing is by not supporting the little guy, it has hampered the groth of the sport,, but that a whole other topic and Ive gotta wrap his up and go play some golf!

Our 2012 event packages offer over a 160% discount off retail prices, 98.5 percent of those that have received our emails and calls appear to at least be interested in hearing about our sponsorship packages and custom stamping offer, which means it will most likely continue.

Anyone who reads this and is interested in receiving information on these custom stamp w/ sponsorship items packages,,,, can email me directly and I'll send you out our 2012 sales docs and the event documents. [email protected]

Mention this post and I'll give you an extra special deal, since I wrote so much for you to read :) :)!

Where is the brotherly love, Jebb? Getting phone calls from disc golfers makes me happy, not angry.

From a player's perspective, I have to say I'm grateful to see more Gateway products making their way into players packs. The folks playing the 2012 Otter Open Am this past weekend very much loved the Wizards in the players packs and proto mid-range discs given to the top players on each card. The TD was also extremely pleased by the package.

...The thing is by not supporting the little guy, it has hampered the groth of the sport...

I agree this is true especially when there is a lack of open competition in a market whose growth depends a great deal upon ingenuity and diversity. I'm very happy to see Gateway, Legacy, Latitude 64, Westside, Prodiscus, Skyquest, Maple Valley Plastics, etc., and all the wonderful new discs and disc styles and plastic blends on the market. This is a huge boost to disc golfers, and makes the game more fun while seeding the market constantly with new ideas and innovations. It also has an impact with the big 2 (Discraft and Innova), as they adopt innovations from the smaller companies to remain competitive (e.g., the Discraft Titanium plastic, which is basically Lat 64's Gold line plastic).

Our 2012 event packages offer over a 160% discount off retail prices, ....


Wow, that is a good deal. Even if I don't understand what that means.

Chances are pretty High that GATEWAY is not a Telemarketing firm. They are in a business asking you about a service that is advertised in a common place to look for information, the PDGA registry, that is a source of leads for any business. If you don't want disc golf related industries to reach you, then don't run events, or list your contact information (pplayers may not like this option though huh?)

I get calls for things that I don't run because my name is listed as a point of contact on old information about disc golf.

https://www.donotcall.gov/faq/faqbusiness.aspx#who
EXPANDED DEFINITION OF EXEMPT ORGANIZATIONS

3.Your organization qualifies for one or more of the specific exemptions contained in the FTC's and FCC's rules, such as:


a.you only call to solicit charitable contributions; or
b.you only call consumers with whom you have an established business relationship; or
c.you only call consumers from whom you have received written permission to call; or
-----d.you only make business-to-business calls.-----

Read the business to business calls. Once you have accepted the role as a TD of a PDGA event, you are in the business of Disc Golf, and this would be classified as a business to business call. The only way that they got your number was because you indicated you are a disc golf Tournament Director, and therefore in the business of Disc Golf, so even as an individual, the contact information that you lay out as a TD becomes business to business in this line.

Now to me it seems silly that you would be bothered by a call trying to reach out to you to see if it can help your event.....you have choices to make as a TD for the event, but to think of Gateway as a Telemarketing firm....you're really making me think that you have confidence that you will hit that hole in one 700' away......

Lighten up, it will make the event easier on you and others!

You could just say no thank you and be done with it, and did you ask them to not call you in the future, or just post about your upset mind here in the forum?

...FCC's rules, such as:
a.you only call to solicit charitable contributions; or
b.you only call consumers with whom you have an established business relationship; or
c.you only call consumers from whom you have received written permission to call; or
-----d.you only make business-to-business calls.-----

Read the business to business calls. Once you have accepted the role as a TD of a PDGA event, you are in the business of Disc Golf, and this would be classified as a business to business call. The only way that they got your number was because you indicated you are a disc golf Tournament Director, and therefore in the business of Disc Golf, so even as an individual, the contact information that you lay out as a TD becomes business to business in this line.

SO incredibly wrong, unless my 'business' license got lost in the mail.

I think you have unreasonable expectations for who should legitimately be able to contact you as a TD when you actually post any contact info whether phone, email or address. You don't have to talk with people once they identify themselves or their reason for calling. But to disallow people to even contact you that have a legitimate interest in your event in some way, doesn't make sense.
I don't make the laws; being a TD and providing contact info expressly to HELP TOURNAMENT PARTICIPANTS should not constitute any reason to be called unsolicited by any business trying to pass their telemarketing as something other than telemarketing.

I just played a tournament here in CA and was STOKED to get a gateway wizzard in my player package. I got a wizzard and legacy cannon. I don't play a lot of tournaments but the few I have played I got about 4 of the same discs, which I am always grateful :), but I was very excited to get the Gateway and Legacy in my players package. Unexpected bonus. TD's may want to take note, after all it should be about the players experience, not the personal preference of the TD.

Here is a little insight to consider.
http://www.sndg.org/forum/read.php?2,218267

TD's may want to take note, after all it should be about the players experience, not the personal preference of the TD.

Many TDs do exactly that, adhering to a strict tournament 'design' plan - and it gets a little offensive to be treated as if you haven't done this many dozens of times. Getting solicited by cold calls doesn't help the player experience when the TD probably will not include personal contact info ever again.

SO incredibly wrong, unless my 'business' license got lost in the mail.

By being a TD, you are in the business of a Disc Golf Tournament. If you are not in the business of Disc Golf Tournament, or you don't feel that this is a business, then why did you pay a fee to run the event? Why are you paying a fee to to the PDGA for the event from the players.

Disc golf tournaments are business Sir, and its not incredibly wrong to do business without a license.

You made a conscience decision to host an event, that in turn makes you a disc golf investor, and therefore.......you are in disc golf business, which is what they are as well.

They just happen to be a bonafied business that operates on a higher level than yourself.

They didn't call you as a PDGA member, they called you as a PDGA business partner, which is what TD's are. You agree as a TD to enforce the PDGA rules of business, and in turn you even pay a fee to agree to these standards that are set forth.

I guess if you choose to not see that you are in fact a disc golf business man you are entitled to that opinion of yourself, but it is painfully clear to most of the other responses in here that you are in a very limited minority of thinking in that regards.

As a TD of events personally I would relish the chance that otehr business' reach out to me to explain how they could help ease the event to the benefit of myself and of others participating in the event. Your decision to not want to do business with whom you choose is entirely your right as the decision maker. It is however not germane with the don't call me list as you indicated is the issue that I am personally finding.

Look Jebb, you can run an event as you see fit for your community and your area, and you can irritate whomever you want, but to try to convince myself or others that you are not in the business of Disc Golf as an event marketer is not going to be an easy task on this individual.....

I see, you're one of those who would argue until blue in the face - even when incorrect.

You are correct that I will argue points that are valid, and at times until the light is shown through, but in this case as most have indicated as well you are in the minority.

I am not talking about Gateway and them as a business but any business in the disc golf community that called you would be a business to business call, and I for the life of me can't understand the logic that you place where that is not the case.

I understand that you as an individual may not be in the disc golf related industries, I myself am not, I have a FT job that is not disc golf related, however when I put my name down as a TD, I then become a part of the disc golf business, event management if you will for disc golf, and in this case as you indicated the PDGA, which is a disc golf entity.

So to your point I guess based on your other responses yeah, I will disagree with you in a forum that is paid for by the work and the memberships that the disc golf related industries have provided you a vessel to voice a concern on, and then be upset that no one agrees with your stance.

The only (this is a far stretch) agreement comes to the light in regards with displeasure of the company that you have an issue with. I am not agreeing or disagreeing with that, I am simply putting it out there that you are in fact in the business of disc golf as a TD, and to think that is not the case befuddles me, and hence my comments.

So I am not really trying to argue with you per se, I am merely trying to help articulate a point that I find extremely easy to view, yet you seem to view as not the case.

Alas, again I am happy that you have given the time and the donated power to make an event happen, and I am sorry that you feel infringed upon with your personal space, but as a TD you really must do that to cater to the sport.

That's kinda my stance on it. You want to feel like I am arguing, I get it, I am boastful and loud, but I just can't get why you don't see it that way, and I find it curious as to why your stance is this way in regards to helping the events.

My $.02, again you are going to do what you want to do, and I accept that, so I guess we agree to disagree.

BTW, my $.02 ain't gonna help the payout much so don't run to the bank with it.....

Can you show me in writing anywhere in PDGA documentation it specifies I've agreed to accept phone solicitations for volunteering my time? (even when the number is on the Do Not Call list?)

The FCC will have to clarify I suppose. As a volunteer, I cannot see how I should be required to 'do business' with anyone - which is why these laws were passed.

Thanks for running an event so people can enjoy the sport.

So....sitting here hard at work and my phone rings......its a professional photographer asking about what our needs are for the Wide Open. Now mind you I am not the TD of the Wide Open this year, but I took the time to answer his questions and concerns, and point him in the right direction.

Since I as well am on the DO NOT CALL list, should I turn in this photographer who got my name and number from a listing that was outdated, or should be happy that they knew that Wide Open was coming up and wanted to know what our photography needs may be like?

I couldn't resist, but it goes to the point that if you put yourself out there to benefit the sport (as I feel all TD's do, even you Jebb) then you are in fact in the business of disc golf.....

Hate beating a horse to death, but this goes to the point that our sport isn't just about our own industries, its about the clothing line, the screen printer, the newspaper, the convention and tourism markets, chamber of commerce, parks and recreation departments, ski resorts, hotel industries, restaraunts.....This little conversation you started really stuck in my craw as you can tell.

Sorry for adding to the fire on this......I just couldn't help but to think what would Jebb do if this guy called, and how would that caller think about all other disc golfers?

I would hope that you were courteous and kind to anyone Jebb, as a TD, you really have to be, but it lends itself to the question since you seem to be void of any disc golf responsibility, except for taking money at an event and knowing the rules, or am I reading too much into this?

I don't know you from Adam, so I may be way off base (I really sincerely hope that I am), but as a TD we are the face of the sport to many, and in that vein we are the lifeblood of the businesses that we support and develop, as well as the opinions expressed by the people that interact with us.

I still am uncertain how to read you on this, but hopefully this informaiton as well will lead a little light into the notion that each and everyone of us, player, organizor, TD, Official, spectator of disc golf is an ambassador to our sport that we all love in some respect.......or you wouldn't be here reading this righ now would you?

:-)

Again Jebb, thanks for taking time to run an event!

Hate beating a horse to death, ... Again Jebb, thanks for taking time to run an event!QAt this point you're putting tenderizer on the meatloaf, but carry on anyway. :D

I felt the same Bruce......I felt the same....It's right where my brain went though as I was on the phone with the guy, because I didn't realize he was hitting me up for Disc golf business, until later in the conversation. I thought that he was hitting me up for promotional material for my "real job", finally he said "that Open thing" and I realized it was disc related....

I've contacted the FCC; will report the results if they ever respond.

If my opinion is incorrect, I will either stop providing personal contact info or just stop running tournaments altogether. So be it.

The beauty of opinions are they are never incorrect since that is what you believe.
As always you should do what you feel you need to do.

If you decide to stop running tourneys all together that would be too bad but thank you for the ones you have run.

Whatever happened to non-PDGA sanctioned events? Kinda miss them frankly. With all due respect, I really don't want to sound against the PDGA but there are plenty of events that are sanctioned. If you really want to run a tourney with your own specific rules then dont get the PDGA and its advertising involved. BTW, as a former STL resident and club member, Dave has one of the most generous businesses in disc golf. Oh before I forget, the PDGA is awesome...

The beauty of opinions are they are never incorrect since that is what you believe.
As always you should do what you feel you need to do.

If you decide to stop running tourneys all together that would be too bad but thank you for the ones you have run.

Thanks for that, being a TD and not making a dime for it is hard work. This year I've actually organized a club-run year-long 7-event points series tour where we're awarding a ton of extra Am payout.

I would tend to think the PDGA would want to keep TDs who put in this much work and run exceptional events where payout and tournament results are almost always posted before awards are even handed out as happy as possible.

http://www.discgolfbirmingham.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3200

Thanks for that, being a TD and not making a dime for it is hard work. This year I've actually organized a club-run year-long 7-event points series tour where we're awarding a ton of extra Am payout.

I would tend to think the PDGA would want to keep TDs who put in this much work and run exceptional events where payout and tournament results are almost always posted before awards are even handed out as happy as possible.

http://www.discgolfbirmingham.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3200
And what exactly is the PDGA doing to not keep those TDs around? Your issue is with Gateway, here, is it not? Unless you believe the PDGA is selling their contact lists or something, which is definitely not the case.

Gateway is targeting TDs to sell them tournament packages. They're going where ever they can to find contact info for TDs. I was contacted by Gateway not through my listing on the PDGA schedule, but through my tournament listing on DiscGolfScene.com. They're being resourceful, and they're acting like any other wholesale business trying to drum up sales from other businesses.

And what exactly is the PDGA doing to not keep those TDs around? Your issue is with Gateway, here, is it not?

Gateway disdain aside, insert any telemarker. The principle of the matter is that PDGA doesn't seem to be taking a stance either way to provide any *option* for those who value every second of their free time and are intelligent enough to make their own vendor choices for an event they're volunteering to coordinate while also being listed as someone telemarketers are not allowed to contact (by law).

If the PDGA doesn't mind telemarkers taking advantage of the info, multitudes of offshore telemarketers are going to love to know (and will eventually figure out) they have a wide open database of info for cold calls on the PDGA schedule. How is this eventuality going to encourage more volunteerism?

In my opinion, Pandora's box still has a chance to be closed in this situation before it gets completely out of hand over a period of time.

Regardless, in no way will I ever accept that I'm required to be an ambassador towards companies who are prying and preying in a manner which very specific laws have been passed to prevent. I for one don't like it, and it would indeed be a shame if it turns away quality TDs who feel like they shouldn't have to endure the practice simply for wanting to help tournament participants get their questions and concerns answered and nothing more.