Manufacturers are designing bags that carry more discs. Shouldn't we set disc limits in tournaments? Ball golf has a 14 club limit. Lost or broken discs can be replaced between rounds. As a players association shouldn't the players vote on disc limits? I think yes. We need to vote on several new rules. Disc limits. Official Review. Should the jump putt be made illegal? Course ratings that consider the course discriminates against left handers and sidearm throwers. Courses with children tee boxes. And what are we to do about vandalism? Trees have been cut in fairways on courses in Great Falls and Helena Montana for instance.

A lot of issues there.

I'd say the membership should not be voting on any rules, unless there are extremely major changes proposed. Membership voting on rules is a path to chaos. We should, instead, address our concerns to the board and/or rules committee, and perhaps kick around ideas in discussion boards.

I carry less than 14 discs, but there's no way I'd want to limit the number of discs my opponents carry.

Among the many reasons the ball golf comparison doesn't apply is that ball golfers rarely put their clubs in the water, stuck in a tree, or simply lose them in the course of a round.

I've seen disc limits proposed and supported several times, but never seen any real argument as to why other than ball golfs club limit.

I've seen disc limits proposed and supported several times, but never seen any real argument as to why other than ball golfs club limit.

I imagine it would be for the same reasons golf has limits - to keep the balance point closer to "skill" than "have a club (or disc) for EVERY conceivable shot.

In other words, in golf, you could carry clubs that vary by one degree of loft and never truly have an "in-between yardage" to the hole.

I'd support a disc limit anywhere from 10-20. Immediate replacement without any delay for lost/damaged discs.

Manufacturers are designing bags that carry more discs. Shouldn't we set disc limits in tournaments? Ball golf has a 14 club limit. Lost or broken discs can be replaced between rounds. As a players association shouldn't the players vote on disc limits? I think yes. We need to vote on several new rules. Disc limits. Official Review. Should the jump putt be made illegal? Course ratings that consider the course discriminates against left handers and sidearm throwers. Courses with children tee boxes. And what are we to do about vandalism? Trees have been cut in fairways on courses in Great Falls and Helena Montana for instance.

You make a lot of great points. I agree with disc limits. You guys should replace those cut trees with giant metal posts.

The players voted on the weight rule.

Why are Americans against democracy? Only 20 percent of PDGA members vote anyway. I motion we put disc limits to a vote just like weight limits were put to a vote. Otherwise what do I receive for my membership?

The only time a disc limit might make sense is sometime far in the future when there's a tour with payouts approaching the PGA level today and our pro caddies have a union where they set limits on how heavy a player's bag including discs can be.

Why are Americans against democracy? Only 20 percent of PDGA members vote anyway. I motion we put disc limits to a vote just like weight limits were put to a vote. Otherwise what do I receive for my membership?

I bet I could round up 100 rules change suggestions in this and other forums. Shall we all vote on them? Every year? Just imagine the ballot.

If we must have pure democracy and vote on everything, why have a board? I prefer to vote for a board, entrust the details to them, and vote them out if I don't like their decisions.

The only time a disc limit might make sense is sometime far in the future when there's a tour with payouts approaching the PGA level today and our pro caddies have a union where they set limits on how heavy a player's bag including discs can be.

That wasn't what prompted the 14-club rule in golf, which was enacted in the late '30s or so.

Some players carried 30 clubs or more at the time. The ruling bodies felt this made the game less about skill and more about having a club that more perfectly suited the shot, so they placed a reasonable limit on the amount of clubs. Many still wish they'd chosen 10, or 12.

A disc limit makes sense to some people right now, for similar reasons: to preserve more of the emphasis on skill and less on "having a disc to cover that shot."

A disc limit makes sense to some people right now, for similar reasons: to preserve more of the emphasis on skill and less on "having a disc to cover that shot."

I disagree. I believe it is much less of an issue as compared to ball golf. We have much more ability to "work" a disc than what can be done with a club. It is much more common to lose a disc, so back ups are often needed. How often do you lose a club? I respect the other lines of thought, but I think it would currently be a bad idea to introduce a disc limit.

Why are Americans against democracy? Only 20 percent of PDGA members vote anyway. I motion we put disc limits to a vote just like weight limits were put to a vote. Otherwise what do I receive for my membership?

LOL ... I don't mean to be disrespectful, but you might want to go back and look up the difference between direct democracy and representational democracy before calling others out.

We have much more ability to "work" a disc than what can be done with a club.

Which strikes me as an argument for limiting the number of discs, not keeping an unlimited number. If one disc can serve several purposes, that speaks to needing fewer discs.

It is much more common to lose a disc, so back ups are often needed.

Can you define "often"? It seems to me that people don't lose discs all that often.

Plus, losing a disc could/would add a strategic element. Really like your overstable max distance driver? Okay, do you lay up or attempt the whatever-hundred-foot carry over the lake?

And you could always re-fill your bag to the limit between rounds. Golf lets you replace a damaged club, so I'm ambivalent about whether you could replace lost discs during a round.

I respect the other lines of thought, but I think it would currently be a bad idea to introduce a disc limit.

Why? "You lose discs sometimes" seems to be your only argument.

Happy for the discussion. :-)

Often depends on the course you are playing. If you regularly play an open course in a park, then there aren't too many lost discs. However, if the course has lots of water or dense privet off the fairways, then you might lose discs on a regular basis. We already have penalty strokes for discs that go OB. Why increase the penalty even more? It is much more exciting (imo) to watch the top players really go for the big shots. If the penalty was greater, then you would be seeing more layups (boring golf).

How many discs do you carry? Do you know anybody that carries "a lot" of discs? Does it appear to give them a strategic advantage by carrying such a large number of discs?

Hypothetically, you are trying to increase the skill required by limiting the number of discs, but do you actually see this advantage occurring on a regular basis at the tournaments that you attend? I don't, but maybe other people do in different parts of the country.

Feldberg is known to have possibly the biggest bag on tour with up to 40 discs. He plays pretty well, too. Whether or not the number he carries has been critical to his success is perhaps debatable since I suspect he may just be prepared with backups because he is allowed to do it.

Often depends on the course you are playing.

Okay, I could see that. That's why a reasonable number is good. I'm not suggesting six discs as a limit. But 10-20 is reasonable. Many players use the same discs fairly often anyway.

We already have penalty strokes for discs that go OB. Why increase the penalty even more?

Because it's not actually a penalty - it's just that you have one less disc to throw for the rest of the round, the same way if your disc becomes cracked or punctured - you can't throw that disc anymore.

It is much more exciting (imo) to watch the top players really go for the big shots. If the penalty was greater, then you would be seeing more layups (boring golf).

Again, it's not an actual penalty.

How many discs do you carry? Do you know anybody that carries "a lot" of discs? Does it appear to give them a strategic advantage by carrying such a large number of discs?

Sometimes I play with just a putter. Rarely do I use more than six or eight discs in a round.

And yes, obviously, if someone has more discs, they'll be less reliant on skill. Theoretically, you could have a disc for almost every type of RHBH shot you need - different distances, different amounts of fade/turn, etc.

So you'd need to rely less on skill, and more on simply choosing the right disc. Why not force the players to use their skills to fill in the gaps between the two overstable drivers they've chosen rather than simply letting them insert another disc that they can throw the same as the other two but which, due to its characteristics, simply fits the slot.

The 14-club limit in golf prevents Tiger Woods from having irons that fly every distance in two-yard increments, or having wedges with varying degrees of loft and bounce to suit EVERY shot he could possibly face.

Same idea.

The more discs you allow someone to carry, the more you decreased the skill required.

Hypothetically, you are trying to increase the skill required by limiting the number of discs, but do you actually see this advantage occurring on a regular basis at the tournaments that you attend? I don't, but maybe other people do in different parts of the country.

I do, actually. Lots of people carry their "specialty" discs for unique shots. A limit of 10 might force their hand into choosing their discs more wisely and/or developing new shots/skills.

Feldberg is known to have possibly the biggest bag on tour with up to 40 discs. He plays pretty well, too. Whether or not the number he carries has been critical to his success is perhaps debatable since I suspect he may just be prepared with backups because he is allowed to do it.

I agree he's obviously phenomenally skilled.

A smaller disc count would bring that out more.

Ken Climo did a "What's in the Bag" recently and had several molds with three or four models in different stages of wear. One would fade a bit, one a bit less, one would go straight, and one would turn a bit right.

Great. So four midranges (or putters, or whatever), and one "skill." I'd rather he be forced to choose one or two of those and show off the skill he obviously has at putting them on different lines and making one or two discs cover a variety of shots.

Caddies? Weight limits? Now we are discussing rules. Lost discs are a course design problem to begin with. When I lose a golf ball on a water shot I usually find four more better balls. I have left clubs behind on a hole and if it is a good club someone playing behind me keeps it just like discs with my name and phone number on them are never returned. I've been playing since 1965 and I don't have another lifetime to fix rules that should have been fixed by 1976. We have a club here that still enforces the 2 meter rule when playing in forest with bark beetle killed trees with no value to anyone but woodpeckers. Trees are placed in fairways as obstacles. Two days later the wind blows the tree down in the fairway and you have a different hole. Some of us try to move the sport toward making money for players but there seems to be resistance. Money sports have rules that the viewer can argue to keep them entertained. Did you see when Tigers ball went in a tree and it was multiple days of entertainment.

Lost discs are a course design problem to begin with.

So any course with a water hazard is poorly designed?

I am having a very hard time following your line of thought.

Hypothetically, you are trying to increase the skill required by limiting the number of discs, but do you actually see this advantage occurring on a regular basis at the tournaments that you attend? I don't, but maybe other people do in different parts of the country.

Maybe I should have been more clear. I also carry discs that are specialty discs that only get used once every 4 or 5 rounds. What I meant is how many people do you see carry more than say 25 discs? Most regular tournament players I see (including pros) carry 15 to 20 discs. Occasionally, I will see someone with closer to 25, but I almost never see somebody carrying more than 30.

Just because a rule would make the game more challenging doesn't mean that it would be a good rule. No matter how many discs you carry, it still takes an extraordinary amount of skill to make them do what you want. It would make basketball harder if they used weighted balls. Football would be harder if the field were 200 yards instead of 100. Ball golf would be harder if the club limit were 3. It would be harder to hit a home run in baseball if they used wiffle balls, etc. All of these changes would decrease the excitement and fun factor of those games.

I still don't see any problem with letting a player carry whatever number of discs they feel like they need to be competitive. If it were such an advantage, Feldberg wouldn't be the only top pro with 40 discs in their bag. When I watch disc golf I want to see the best players hit those incredibly difficult shots that they carry that specialty disc for.

Maybe I should have been more clear.

If you're responding to me, there's no need. I understood your point.

I just don't agree with it.

Occasionally, I will see someone with closer to 25, but I almost never see somebody carrying more than 30.

20 is too many IMO. You disagree.

Just because a rule would make the game more challenging doesn't mean that it would be a good rule.

I think it would be. You don't.

No matter how many discs you carry, it still takes an extraordinary amount of skill to make them do what you want.

It takes LESS skill to make it "do what you want" when you get to have 30 different discs. Odds are if one disc has a hard time going right, you can choose a different disc that will with the same form. That's less "making" the disc do what you want and more "letting" the disc do what IT wants with the same technique.

I favor putting more emphasis on the player, and less on having a wide variety of discs.

It would make basketball harder if they used weighted balls.

That's a poor analogy. A heavier basketball does not inherently require increased "basketball skills" to use. Ditto your football example.