Dave,

I happened to find what appears to be a Gateway "Softie" with a killer LED ZEPPELIN hot stamp. I found it used at a used sporting goods shop. Do you happen to know if I can find a few more? I just got my second ace with that disc a month back.

Thanks
Dustin

I would say that an E element has a lot more reistance to turn, especially into a wind or of your realease has a bit of turbulance.
Do you find the Black E too overstable or not enough glide?



I really like the comet because of the mechanics that you must have to throw it accuratly. Your arm has to slow down. When I throw them, I expect it to go straight for up to 275, or annie for 250, or hyzer for 240-250. For me, the black E element I have had to be throw much harder to get it to get it straight, and didn't have near as much glide.
Also, I'll be ordering one of those new hybrids sometime later this month.

I've been throwing a couple of max weight black E Elements for a couple of weeks now and they are sweet. Thrown flat and smooth, they flip ever so slightly and carry a beautiful and predictable anhyzer line and finishes on that exact line. I'm just going to have to dye them with some bright colors so that I don't lose 'em.

I got a heavy (182) black domey E element.


These disc are awesome. When I got mine I was out playing in a really big head wind in doubles and actually called the ace it was great. I told my partner said this is a great straight disc probably the straightest disc I have and is 182 so it will be great for this head wind and sure enough it went in. So as you can tell I really like this disc and cant wait to get another one since that one is on the wall now.Now to what you asked about the comet I never threw one so I couldn�t answer that part of your question sorry

Justin

I've been throwing a couple of max weight black E Elements for a couple of weeks now and they are sweet. Thrown flat and smooth, they flip ever so slightly and carry a beautiful and predictable anhyzer line and finishes on that exact line. I'm just going to have to dye them with some bright colors so that I don't lose 'em.



Now I agree with you but as you see in my post before I am throwing the 182 (not sure if thats max or not sorry if it is) but this disc will fly on the exact line you put it on when I threw mine before. With hyzer it held it great flat never would turn and anhyzer would just fly that line when the disc I use for the anhyzer line is depending the distance is the "E" Element X and the "S" Element X both of those fly sweet anhyzer lines for me.

I have a ton at home I picked up this summer when i visited the store, they can be put into 2 categories (the first run there is). They are all 182 for the most part, there are some softer flat ones that are very stable, and some domey hard ones that seem to be a little more overstable. I have 8 at home right now and have tested each one and thats what I have deduced. Between those and the milky white ones the element is the best midrange in the business imo. I can do any shot in basically any conditions with a grippy disc that is very durable (the black ones I have still havent changed flight characteristics from june). HIGHLY RECOMENDED!!

I'm not sure we have used the led ZEP in a while,
How many discs would you want?
send me the message to [email protected]

I agree the comet is one of the best discs ever made if you have a smooth release, but if you lack proper technique it will be exposed when you throw a comet.

Like I said an E Element will have much more resistance to turn, but with the right amount of power it will fly very similar to a comet. The element will probably work for a wider range of players than a comet because of the resistance to turn factor!

Both will fade similar once on the flat flying plane.

Thanks for the info, Dave. I think I'll stick with the Comet for now, but when the Comet makes it out of my bag, I think the Element will be in.
But the wizard and the Hybrid won't be leaving anytime soon!

Thanks for the info, Dave. I think I'll stick with the Comet for now, but when the Comet makes it out of my bag, I think the Element will be in.
But the wizard and the Hybrid won't be leaving anytime soon!



Just get a green E, S, or H element. The black ones are the most overstable.

Sorry, but as much as I appreciate Dave and all the work he's done to help me find the wizard and hybrid, I don't think I'm going to replace a disc in my bag that works. In fact, if I had to take only one disc out on the course, I think I'd pick the comet. And the comet isn't what I'd call "overstable," so why would I pick a black one if I was going to put it in my bag.

Sorry, but as much as I appreciate Dave and all the work he's done to help me find the wizard and hybrid, I don't think I'm going to replace a disc in my bag that works. In fact, if I had to take only one disc out on the course, I think I'd pick the comet. And the comet isn't what I'd call "overstable," so why would I pick a black one if I was going to put it in my bag.



Re-read his post...he was saying to avoid the black ones if you don't want overstable.

Get a flat GLOW Element ... you're Comet will be so humiliated, it will leave your bag on it's own. ;)

Guys, I got a 168g E-Blaze and this disc is confusing me. Sometimes it wants to be really overstable, sometimes it flies dead straight. It doesn't skip at all. Is the blaze very nose angle dependent? I usually throw it really low, like 5-8 ft off the ground and it goes about 200-280ft depending on how hard I throw. I think it has huge S-er potential, so what is this disc supposed to do. Its the only gateway disc besides wizards that I have.

Sorry, but as much as I appreciate Dave and all the work he's done to help me find the wizard and hybrid, I don't think I'm going to replace a disc in my bag that works. In fact, if I had to take only one disc out on the course, I think I'd pick the comet. And the comet isn't what I'd call "overstable," so why would I pick a black one if I was going to put it in my bag.



Re-read his post...he was saying to avoid the black ones if you don't want overstable.


I do see his point now, but I don't really see a reason to replace the comet with the element. I thought the element required the same slow arm speed that the comet did, and according to dave, you have to throw it a little bit harder.

Guys, I got a 168g E-Blaze and this disc is confusing me. Sometimes it wants to be really overstable, sometimes it flies dead straight. It doesn't skip at all. Is the blaze very nose angle dependent? I usually throw it really low, like 5-8 ft off the ground and it goes about 200-280ft depending on how hard I throw. I think it has huge S-er potential, so what is this disc supposed to do. Its the only gateway disc besides wizards that I have.



Dunno about that...most Blazes are consistant from run to run, but being 168 might have to do with some of it...could be some flutter in your release causing it to turn more, which would go unnoticed so the flight would seem straight...I'd really have to see it to tell.

Sorry, but as much as I appreciate Dave and all the work he's done to help me find the wizard and hybrid, I don't think I'm going to replace a disc in my bag that works. In fact, if I had to take only one disc out on the course, I think I'd pick the comet. And the comet isn't what I'd call "overstable," so why would I pick a black one if I was going to put it in my bag.



Re-read his post...he was saying to avoid the black ones if you don't want overstable.



Thanks Chris.

Guys, I got a 168g E-Blaze and this disc is confusing me. Sometimes it wants to be really overstable, sometimes it flies dead straight. It doesn't skip at all. Is the blaze very nose angle dependent? I usually throw it really low, like 5-8 ft off the ground and it goes about 200-280ft depending on how hard I throw. I think it has huge S-er potential, so what is this disc supposed to do. Its the only gateway disc besides wizards that I have.



I don�t throw the Blaze so I cant help you there but the thing I know is depending on how hard you throw the disc with that light of weight it will fly different. I have an S Illusion that is the same weight and I use it for all things I can think of hyzer, straight, s curve, and rollers I love this disc being so light because it will do so much.

Depending on what kind of power you have, the Blaze will do different things. For someone with average distance (325-350') it is better suited for a long midrange disc. If you have consistent 400' power it is a controled hyzer driver. It can fly well in an S-curve, but the Hybrid flies much better on an anhyzer shot. Try and check out a Sabre or Hybrid if you are looking for something a little faster and with less fade at the end. :D

Well put MAD.. The Blaze is an awesome mid-range for someone who can throw hard and controlled. I myself use Blazes for my mid-range shots (300-375'). I have 3 of them in my bag (S Blaze-understable and straight shots, and an E Blaze- for my long hyzers and S shots.)

Now if you want to talk about the new "retooled" hybrids these things are sweet!!!! I threw a few on a windy day and they were very controlable and went close to 400'. They continue to penetrate forward on deceleration with a little fade. I have to admit that when we first came out with the Hybrids i didn't like them too much, because i thought it was too close to a blaze. You can throw these low with a little reverse out of the hand and it slowly comes out while still going forward. They also have enough stability to throw in windy conditions and still be predictable. I could possibly see these replacing my blazes and that BIG for me to say. Believe me when i say these things are the BOMB!!!

Wow...that is big! I'll have to check them out when I finally get down there...look for a call from me sometime today big guy.

Guys thanks for helping out with the answers.
As far as the Blaze goes, It is definitely nose angle dependant as are most discs.
Flat low shots that are nose down can make a blaze fly very straight while anyting nose up will make them Hyzer more.
Generally speaking a flat release will have a great reistance to turn while predictably fading or Hyzering out as it decelerates.

Most players will have more success with the Hybrids as they are faster with less fade, but are close to the same in resistance to turn or turning over. They will still fade left, but will carry further forward while doing so.

Like Justin Bunnell said, the new retooled Hybrids are working quite well for him, even on windy days :cool:

Well put MAD.. The Blaze is an awesome mid-range for someone who can throw hard and controlled. I myself use Blazes for my mid-range shots (300-375'). I have 3 of them in my bag (S Blaze-understable and straight shots, and an E Blaze- for my long hyzers and S shots.)

Now if you want to talk about the new "retooled" hybrids these things are sweet!!!! I threw a few on a windy day and they were very controlable and went close to 400'. They continue to penetrate forward on deceleration with a little fade. I have to admit that when we first came out with the Hybrids i didn't like them too much, because i thought it was too close to a blaze. You can throw these low with a little reverse out of the hand and it slowly comes out while still going forward. They also have enough stability to throw in windy conditions and still be predictable. I could possibly see these replacing my blazes and that BIG for me to say. Believe me when i say these things are the BOMB!!!



And that is coming from the original Hybrid skeptic.

Have we sent any hybrids to you yet matt?

Yeah but not the newer run. Are you going to Zboaz?

Justin, I see your coming up to milwaukee this weekend! Bring up some plastic for me!

You and Chris will be unstoppable! Planning on playing some golf out here on friday?

Yeah but not the newer run. Are you going to Zboaz?



As of yesterday, I am Matt! :D Now I have to work out some details on transportation and I'm there!

Chris,
still working on a place, and I think I have a job for you already! of course there wil be work at the gateway shop and maybe even on thr road for out of town course designs.

Can you get us some pictures from the carney/ blair course where the titans are?

Yeah but not the newer run. Are you going to Zboaz?



As of yesterday, I am Matt! :D Now I have to work out some details on transportation and I'm there!



Sweet!

BTW Justin if you do come down can you bring me some stuff instead of having to ship it? I will E-mail you a list in a few days.

Chris,
still working on a place, and I think I have a job for you already! of course there wil be work at the gateway shop and maybe even on thr road for out of town course designs.

Can you get us some pictures from the carney/ blair course where the titans are?



Cool, I need to call you too soon...and yes, sometime before leave here I will get some pictures from Blair.

I am going to Z Boaz. I talked to maceman the other day and we are playing the zboaz course twice and this other course for an 18 and final 9 holes. As for product goes, you know ill be bringing the goods for you down there and for mark and Todd up in WI :cool:

Chris, call me up and let me know what your plans are for Zboaz.

Will Be great to have you up here again this year. Is George Smith coming as well?

ce

"Up" to Texas...? Y'all are "down" there!

Are Demons made in S, H, & E? How does the stability differ...and compare their glides (HA!), textures and durabilites, please.

Chris,
still working on a place, and I think I have a job for you already! of course there wil be work at the gateway shop and maybe even on thr road for out of town course designs.

Can you get us some pictures from the carney/ blair course where the titans are?



Yeah, like in Texas ;)

demons just in S they're super beefy and can only be run in S, there are some h demons floating around somewhere I think they were just tests and not legal. BTW they're as overstable as overstable comes.

"Up" to Texas...? Y'all are "down" there!

Are Demons made in S, H, & E? How does the stability differ...and compare their glides (HA!), textures and durabilites, please.



I�m pretty sure that the demon is made only in the �S�

I�m editing this to talk about the over stableness of them. I really did think mine was pretty over stable when I first got it but since this thing has gotten beat in a little man its so sweet. I�m not saying its still not over stable I use it for hyzers but with how beat in it is I throw it with little hyzer and it will flatten out then hyzer back at the end. It really is an amazing disc and when I saw how it was when it got beat in I had to make sure I got a back up for this disc.

I am going to Z Boaz. I talked to maceman the other day and we are playing the zboaz course twice and this other course for an 18 and final 9 holes. As for product goes, you know ill be bringing the goods for you down there and for mark and Todd up in WI :cool:

Chris, call me up and let me know what your plans are for Zboaz.



Cool well I will see you there. I am playing the Cedar Hill event in Dallas this weekend so hopefully I can make some $$$. :D

Just picked up 2 kinda old gateway disc's need some help on one. The Spirit is in the Nike plastic, I know of this one. But also, got a sabre that is orange and it feel's like Nike plastic, I am pretty sure about this. It is orange and a buddy of mine picked it up from Ron Russell a couple of year's ago? Any info? Dave? Scooter? Justin? Little history. Was this ran with the spirit's?

Dave,

I have a weekend deluxe bag that I bought used from you in September. While I love this bag in both the amount of discs it holds and it's weight, the frame is starting to put tears in the bottom of my bag. I took out the frame, and noticed that there isn't any extra padding on the bottom of the bag to prevent this. The bag I got from you looks pretty old, and I was curious if you have the same size bag that's reinforced to prevent tears. When this one goes out, I really want to get another.

I don't know about the older bags but I know the newer ones have a durable (Vinyl?) layer on the bottom and I have no wear on my bag that I have had since June.

Just picked up 2 kinda old gateway disc's need some help on one. The Spirit is in the Nike plastic, I know of this one. But also, got a sabre that is orange and it feel's like Nike plastic, I am pretty sure about this. It is orange and a buddy of mine picked it up from Ron Russell a couple of year's ago? Any info? Dave? Scooter? Justin? Little history. Was this ran with the spirit's?



I am not too sure on tyhis but I doubt it is Nike. Justin might know something about this as he throws an old orange sabre and if not dave will.


BTW how'bout that spirit? /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Going on Ebay tomarrow:

2nd Run Nike Spriit...blank/ no stamp.


Z-Spirit.....Gateway Spirit in Discraft Z plastic.

Just picked up 2 kinda old gateway disc's need some help on one. The Spirit is in the Nike plastic, I know of this one. But also, got a sabre that is orange and it feel's like Nike plastic, I am pretty sure about this. It is orange and a buddy of mine picked it up from Ron Russell a couple of year's ago? Any info? Dave? Scooter? Justin? Little history. Was this ran with the spirit's?



I am not too sure on tyhis but I doubt it is Nike. Justin might know something about this as he throws an old orange sabre and if not dave will.


BTW how'bout that spirit? /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif



Does it have a GDSTour stamp? If so, I know of those...its euretheyne alright...similar to original CE, but its not Nike.

If they are the Bright orange E sabres with the blue star gdstour stamp, they were ran right before we ran the nike stuff, we stamped them both with the same stamp.
That Urethane was from Huntsman a German company.

You nailed it on the, U know! Love the feel. I'm wishing I would of thrown it today during the mini. Gateway disc's took 1rst and 2nd place today by the way. My Bro then I. :cool: That plastic feel's really interesting Im curious how it fly's! Because I love the feel of this disc more than the E or S Or H old apache mold. GET MORE!!!!!! my humble opinion.

I don't know about the older bags but I know the newer ones have a durable (Vinyl?) layer on the bottom and I have no wear on my bag that I have had since June.



Thanks. When mine gives out, I'll be getting a new one. I've tried the revolution, but god that thing is heavy! The weekend deluxe weighs nothing.

I just got a naked E-Spirit in that orange plastic. Man is this thing beefy. It wouldn't turn over, even into a 20 mph headwind. It's just what I have been looking for, because my E-Speed Demon is starting to get a bit of wear on it and so it doesn't handle the headwinds anymore like it used to.

Hey Chris, thanks for that H-Spirit...it's the shizzle. I gave it a bit of flexing and it is money. Flies straight and true with a tail wind and does a nice helix into a headwind. It found a spot in the bag real quick like.

I just got a naked E-Spirit in that orange plastic. Man is this thing beefy. It wouldn't turn over, even into a 20 mph headwind. It's just what I have been looking for, because my E-Speed Demon is starting to get a bit of wear on it and so it doesn't handle the headwinds anymore like it used to.

Hey Chris, thanks for that H-Spirit...it's the shizzle. I gave it a bit of flexing and it is money. Flies straight and true with a tail wind and does a nice helix into a headwind. It found a spot in the bag real quick like.



Yeah, the Illusion I got from you BOMBS...I was reaching holes on a hyzer line the entire way....its huge!

Well...I'm glad you like it. I have a 172g black with the same stamp coming on Monday...so hopefully...that one will BOMB for me :D

I would like to know the chronicled history of the Demon (G5i). The originals seems much more like the low level plastics (Dx/Pro-D = pre-'S'?)) in feel...and as beefy as they are it takes a L-O-N-G time to get one of these to be a glider (that STILL finishes hard hyzer, BTW :cool:). I've seen at least 2 variances in the wing from pretty straight to more concave...

My newest one (probably 1-2 yrs old) which is marked 'S' has the Demon-head stamp and is much glossier/slick (yet still grippy) than the others I've had over the years, and it has the concave wing...

Just curious: Which has been the most overstable of them all?

I throw quite flat and this disc is an integral part of my approach/short-drive game (BH & SA) as I've found the Demon G5i to be one of my most indispensable utility discs! Long live the DEMON!!

The concave winged version(G5i) of the Demon is without a doubt the most stable. They ran the G6i for a while which had a straighter wing. This version is also a lot less stable. I don't belive that the G6i's are being produced anymore.

The concave winged version(G5i) of the Demon is without a doubt the most stable. They ran the G6i for a while which had a straighter wing. This version is also a lot less stable. I don't belive that the G6i's are being produced anymore.


Sorry to nit pick...but most over~stable or straight~stable?

The G5's were more overstable and the G6's were more str8 stable.

I got a 172g black E-Illusion today with a silver Jerry Garcia stamp on it. This thing is the *****. You guys need to run some more of these things...in 172g. I had to scower the earth to find one that was lighter than 174g. But it was well worth it. I think this will be my go to driver from now on. If you guys run more of the E-Illusions in the near future and you happen to get some in the 171-172 range...please hold a few for me and I will buy them.

I was able to throw the E Wizard during P.E. today. I can see where it�s a little more over stable than the other Wizards that I have thrown before but don�t think it will be something that will do a big difference for me. Think when I threw it I was in the 230s range but not sure. I threw it flat and it had a little hyzer end flight pattern but nothing drastic. Really great grip also all the people that I have let try it out with the new hybrids are comparing it the Innova star plastic.

The "E" wiz is the chit. :D

You�re not kidding on that one bit. The only thing I was going to say that was because I have had a few people ask me if they were a little over stable so I was expecting a little more than I got but I really like how it flies. I was only using it for putting yesterday since I got it Sunday and was able to throw good distance today so was really impressed with it though.


Like I said in my last post though I am really impressed with the new E Hybrids Saturday when I went and played in the tournament so it got a really good work in. The grip is really sweet on the new runs of disc and I can�t wait to get some more of these some time.

I think the thing that suprised me about the E wizards is the fact even though they're slightly more overstable than their S counterparts, they have just as much glide. I was out practicing putting today, and decided to practice some driving with the new E's I have. You can put them on a hyzer line with ease. I went up a little hill, and found they glided as much as my soft wizards, and **** near as far as my comets!
If you use the wizard off the tee, you should conder having an E in your bag.

Just got my E Hybrids today. These discs feel sweet! Not as tacky and flimsy as the soft E Hybrid I have, but that isn't a bad thing. They actually remind me more of CE stuff. Kinda flexible, but a stiff rim. But it's getting dark, and I've got no where to throw :(.
A side note: The mini stamp on these discs is the coolest you've done since the gateway proto stamp. Keep using it!

What stamp is it?

The "E" wiz is the chit. :D



I agree

Mark,
Did you get some discs from Justin while he was up there?

It's a mini gateway arch stamp. I've got some proto wizard with this stamp but bigger on it.

You wanna know how much I love my Gateway plastic? Over my lunch hour I went out to play a few holes. On the last hole, I threw a brand new E-Illusion down the fairway and thought it landed ok. Turns out it skipped off into a nice little water area. Now, this water area is about four feet deep in the deepest part. Did I mention that it is a field run off and stagnent most of the year? Well...after work I ran home to snag a pair of shorts and ended up wading through the muck and nastiness to get it back. Do you know how f'ing cold the water is in Iowa during the winter time? Well...I did get it back along with a few other discs I found in there. Needless to say, my wife wasn't too thrilled with the smell I brought home with me. But to top off the day, I threw the Innova disc's back in the water. :D

You wanna know how much I love my Gateway plastic?

\I threw the Innova disc's back in. :D



very nice brotha man!!!!

Yeah I got a 176g E-hybrid which I would compare to the Teebirds I throw and got an EWizard which I am really digging for driving and upshots compared to the KCaviar I am used to.

I wanted to get some more but did not have much cash on me at the time.

Mark,
Have you had a chance to get the E hybrid broken in any?

We have tried to throw them into a bick wall to get them broken in some so they will flip a bit but they are holding up too good.

They seem to fly awesome for long hyzers or a nice tight S if your turn them right out of the hand, But I would like to see one flip up and fly.

They are not so overstable like the new E blazes and are much faster, and they seem to hang on the hyxer angle like the saber will.

It truly is a Hybrid of the Sabre and Blaze, but much more gyroscopic then either becasue of the really thin flight plate.

If any one gets one of the new E Hybrids beat in and flipping up from hyzer let me know how much they will turn and if they still come back.

We may make a less concave wing for it similar to the L versions of other brands ;)

I will see what I can do, I know out of the throws I have had with it I think I had a few shots I was able to hyzer flip but they would hook up almost right after flipping flat. The disc has a different feel to it thats for sure.

Hey Dave, I love the new hybrids (the 3rd ones). They've kicked out my 11x teebirds out of the bag. Right now, my 2nd run flips up and flies straighter (and therefore farther) than the 3rd run, but the newer ones are amazing for hyzers. I like the way it feels in my hand, and if you do end up producing an L version to replace the sabres in my bag, that would be awsome.

As always, thanks for all the development with this disc.

Mark,
Have you had a chance to get the E hybrid broken in any?

We have tried to throw them into a bick wall to get them broken in some so they will flip a bit but they are holding up too good.

They seem to fly awesome for long hyzers or a nice tight S if your turn them right out of the hand, But I would like to see one flip up and fly.

They are not so overstable like the new E blazes and are much faster, and they seem to hang on the hyxer angle like the saber will.

It truly is a Hybrid of the Sabre and Blaze, but much more gyroscopic then either becasue of the really thin flight plate.

If any one gets one of the new E Hybrids beat in and flipping up from hyzer let me know how much they will turn and if they still come back.

We may make a less concave wing for it similar to the L versions of other brands ;)


I didn�t know that�s what you were really looking for or I would have told you. Just from me throwing mine enough and hitting trees it�s broken in after a week. I can throw it with a little hyzer it will flip up s curve a little and hyzer back. I mean its not broken in like terrible but I use it for a lot of my shots really feel good out the hand and dependable in the wind. Like I was talking with you the other night about the E plastic I love all these disc for different things in the wind.

Justin,

Are you talking about the new white E ones?
Not sure what stamp we would have used unless it is dyed with the FBI stamp.
We should be getting the Evolution Hybrid satmp this week.

Just wanted to give a shout out to Kid, Boro and Hall for some nice shooting at Z-Boaz this past weekend. All three were in the top 10. Very nice.

Dave...did you get my email over the weekend?

JT

Justin,

Are you talking about the new white E ones?
Not sure what stamp we would have used unless it is dyed with the FBI stamp.
We should be getting the Evolution Hybrid satmp this week.



Yes, it�s the new E white one. Also you were right about the stamp it has the FBI stamp but is not dyed. This disc is one that I would really go to any time I need a good dependable shot in any type of wind.

Dave please tell me these new white E ones are the same plastic as the milky white discs. You guys HAVE to make some more runs of those, shane and I only have 1 white E element left each, and I only have 2 white E sabres and shane only has 1, these are our favorite discs!!!

Dave,
I have noticed that your website is pretty stagnant. Are you planning on updating it? I know that I check out Innova and Discraft fairly often to see what is new.

Willie call the shop ASAP we have some really sweet E Elements and are running element X's right now.
We also have some shorts and a few more collared shirts that might fit you guys.

Dave,
I have noticed that your website is pretty stagnant. Are you planning on updating it? I know that I check out Innova and Discraft fairly often to see what is new.


Actaully I have spent the last 2 nights editing and organizing documents for our new site.
Last night until 5:15 and tonight it's already almost 3:00.

The new site will have more information on the disc golf course design and installation we have been doing.
We have installed 72 baskets in the last 3 months and are scheduled for 54 more right now.
We are also relasing a portable version of the Titan which will have the exact same chain configuration as the Titan Pro-24 but will be made in a combination of 1/4" and 3/8ths instead of the 1/2" big boy Titan.
the portables will all be dipped in a red copolymer which adds about .070 of thickness to the steel.

Hopefully the new site will be ready to upload within 2 weeks.

Thanks for asking though!

Dave please tell me these new white E ones are the same plastic as the milky white discs. You guys HAVE to make some more runs of those, shane and I only have 1 white E element left each, and I only have 2 white E sabres and shane only has 1, these are our favorite discs!!!



Yeah, and some of the newere "E" Sabres feel just like the milky whites just domier....really sweet fliers.

Threw the 176g E-hybrid more today

I was able to beat it in a little by throwing into some concrete, etc etc... Throwing on an anhyzer line the disc would hold a nice anhyzer for most of its flight and would consistently fade left at the end of its flight, distance I was getting was easily around 400ft. Throwing hyzer line I got fast consistent flights that held the line for around 350+ft. Throwing with a little amount of hyzer I was able to flip the disc up to flat and it would hold that line nicely with a small fade at the end.

Very consistent disc, I really like the plastic, a little more overstable than my teebirds but similar results. I might look into getting a few more gateway molds to experiment with in my practice time. Who knows maybe I will switch the bag over ;)

If you can get an E hybrid to flip, you just may be able to switch your bag over. :cool:
How many hits did it take to get it to start to flip up from Hyzer? Did the plastic actually get abbrasions or did you get the nose bent down a bit?

Like I told you with mine the other day on the phone really I don�t think I hit it on that many things. Maybe 2-3 trees and I know I hit a fence with it one time and it rolled down the bleachers. With that I don�t have a mark anywhere on the disc. I have found that the E plastic won�t get marks from hitting trees or something really dependable plastic.

I took probably 10-20 full out throws at a cement wall. Proceeded to throw some thumbers into the ground. The plastic looks fine as far as I can tell and it is bent a little bit :) but not too much. We have some lake effect snow right now in milwaukee so I probably will not be getting out to throw any plastic for a few days.

It's good to hear that the new runs of E are just as good as anything we have produced.
Actually the more flexible the Urethane the better it is on abbrasion, impact and rebound resillency ( memory)

Weve made it through our runs of E element=x's and have 3 different versions.
1 is Clear with a slight dome and not as overstable as the red/orange transluscent that are almost flat.
The softer ones are more of a yellow/orange and are really flat, they are the most overstable of the latest Evolution ELX's.


We will try and get the illusion back in by wednesday after we run the Hybrids tomorrow and Tuesday.

We are thinking of an "L" version of the Hybrid as they are still a bit beefy for players who throw less than 300'
This will also give us and L vesrion for the Sabre, Blaze and Demon if we want.

I took probably 10-20 full out throws at a cement wall.



LOL. That is hilarious. Why don't you just try the sabre?

Will this "L" version of the Hybrid be similar in flight lines to a sabre, but perhaps faster with more glide?

The softer ones are more of a yellow/orange and are really flat, they are the most overstable of the latest Evolution ELX's.




David:

Please put a few of these aside for me...I want to throw them! Also, look for a call from me some time today!

I just got a box full of a bunch of bright colorful discs today. I will have to test them tomorrow. Then again it isn't dark yet. :D

I took probably 10-20 full out throws at a cement wall.



LOL. That is hilarious. Why don't you just try the sabre?



Well I had forgot about the hybrid. Justin was up in milwaukee and I thought I would have some more money on me but not really the case so when he reminded me about the hybrid I put down the sabre and picked up that and an E wizard.

If I�m reading this right yall are comparing a worn in Hybrid to a Sabre right? If so that is something I wouldn�t agree with. Maybe for some shots I would pick the Sabre over the Hybrid but still even with all that my Hybrid has been through it still flies sweet. Don�t get my wrong I use the Sabre for shots starting off at 300ft that I need just straight line with very little hyzer on it. When I pick up my Hybrid I know it will have a little more hyzer than the Sabre so I know that it�s not a toss up between the two. Now there are some shots I have toss-ups on the disc but that�s not something I will go to now.

I think players may go to the beat Hybrid for lower ceiling shots that an Illusion or Spirit would be too much and a Blaze may fall out too quick..

I threw the Hybrid a lot this saturday and its glide 4-6 feet off the ground surprised me, I may have to bump it up one on our flight chart. :D

I gotta give props to Gateway. This past weekend i was fortunate enough to have a Wizard in my bag, which was the only putter i had that could hold up to the near 40 mph wind. If it wasnt for that disc I don't think I could have even sniffed cashing. It saved my butt on countless upshots and putts.

The wizard I have is from the 2002 Paul Giles Memorial and seems to be a prototype like plastic. I have never really used it before but I saw the bead on it and thought it could be useful in the predicted winds for the day. Glad I stuck it in the bag. I think it proved itself worthy of daily use :)

Good things come to those who wait, but why wait so long :confused:

Glad to hear the wizard worked out in the wind, you should try our other stuiff that made for TEXAS winds :cool:

Well I probably would try some Gateway discs but I rarely go out and buy discs and if I do I never buy online. There is no place around here that carries Gateway.

So far I have only tried three discs, the Wizard I have, a buddy of mine had a Speed Demon which was comedic watching me try to get that disc to do anything but knife hyzer right in front of me, and I tried a Sabre of Matt's when I had a broken ankle so I couldnt really say if I would like it or not.

Hey Fuzzy, Rick is carrying them now. I will also be buying a big box of wizards to sell soon. /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Hey amtt,
You going into sales?, about time :D

Probably just some wizards for now. I don't want to mess with Rick's sales but I am on the other side of town. :D

For those of you who have not tried out the Hybrid, you owe it to yourself to check one out. The latest runs of the E-Hybrid are so sweet. If a blaze is a bit too overstable for you, then you should give a Hybrid a try. A very sweet addition to the Gateway line. Great job Dave and company.

Thanks,
JT

Thanks Joe!
For those who like 150 clas or are going to Japan, we have some REALLY SWEET 150 class E Hybrids.
We also have some 120g Hybrids for kids.

Hi David,
I've just recently switched putters from s wizards to soft chiefs. is the E wizard replacing the chief or are they still in production? I love the grip of the chief...very consistant throughout the volital michigan weather changes! Whether it's 60deg or ZERO, the disc feels the same in my hand, whether I can Feel my hand or not. Thanks!

#23474

I have never tried the chief so I can�t answer you on that. But last weekend I played in about 20-30mph winds and 33 degree weather. When I used the E Wizard it felt the same as it always does and I really liked it. I putt with the firm wizard so when I ended up not being able to feel my hands for a first I turned to the E plastic for everything because its such a good grip disc.

yo hate,
i have been loving the cheif for the putts. i had been switching from firm to e wizards but the cheif has always felt very consistant for me. just my 2 cents....

FYI-The Wizard and Chief are the same disc, just in different plastics. They are not making anymore that have the word "chief" on the disc, but I think Dave said they had a box or so in their warehouse...

I've had some amazing "in's" with my chief...but along the same lines, I've had some pretty amazing bounce outs.
One great one was on a Disccatcher. I was shooting for a birdie at Meyer Broadway park in 3 Rivers Michigan, hole # 8....named "linebacker" for the tree directly infront of the tee pad.
Anyway, I was about 40' away on an overshot and put up the comeback...it hit the band at the top of the disccatcher, bent like it taco'ed, and shot straight down into the basket! It was the craziest thing I've seen in a long time!! :eek:

Most wizards (old chiefs) were meant for driving and laying up. There are several players who use some of the softer S/H versions for putting as the shiney, pure H do have a lot of resilency making them pretty springy!

Dave-


There is an e-mail circulating, from the Hannibal Parks and Rec.

The letter is very negative towards your company.

I was just wanting to get your side of the story. Maybe it will help clear the air, and reverse any negative thoughts it has given people about you or your company.

Smitty

Dave-


There is an e-mail circulating, from the Hannibal Parks and Rec.

The letter is very negative towards your company.

I was just wanting to get your side of the story. Maybe it will help clear the air, and reverse any negative thoughts it has given people about you or your company.

Smitty



I can�t say anything about what�s being said in Hannibal Parks and Rec. because I don't know where it�s from. The one thing I will say though is ever since I have started working with Dave and Gateway back in November I couldn't think of anything bad to say about them. Dave and the rest of people are supportive and people I have great chats with about the game and what Gateway has to offer. So what ever is being said since you say its negative I'm shocked.

Most people I do business with have already heard me talk about my efforts to help the Hannibal parks department by getting them to redesign a very unsafe course.
This has been very stressful for me and I could have easily just walked away and let them install a disc golf course next to tennis courts, skate parks, the Ball field and over roads! But unsafe course designs are not good for anyone and it looked liked I was the ONLY one that cared!

Even after the baskets were bought from Innova I still offered to help in the design for FREE.
I even offered to bring a crew from St Louis to volunteer some time cleaning up a few holes in the woods if needed.

I got wind of the email on Friday and a copy of it on Saturday. The allegations were very inaccurate, accusing me of harassing the parks department. I will probably need to talk with a lawyer early this week to at least get the letters to stop.

Bottom line is the letter(Character assignation) fails to mention anything about the UNSAFE course designs I reviewed for their new disc golf course, which were the basis of ALL correspondence.
He claims I was upset for not getting the bid on the baskets when actually I WOULDNT submit a bid because the design was too unsafe!
There is also mention in his letter that I was never solicited by the parks for a design, which is absolutely untrue and even documented by an email to me by his boss!
I have an email dated JAN 30th ( 2-1/2 weeks ago) asking me to present a design for review.
If I was harassing the parks for 4 months why would they ask me to submit a design just 2-1/2 weeks ago?

I emailed and talked to the city manager and told him if HE asked me to go away I would, but he never responded by email or phone, so I kept up with my efforts to make sure the course was designed safely. I gave there boss an opportunity to tell me to but out and he never responded, so I finally called innova and asked them to help and they did.

This Therron Guy, who is Blasting off emails to anyone involved in disc golf he can find, including my customers, is upset that I went above his head to the city manager and his e mails are his efforts to get back at me.
In the end I know I did the right thing as the course is now MUCH MUCH MUCH SAFER now than either of the original 2 designs that I reviewed. Thanks to John Chapman and Innova for sending him up there to help!!
It is a shame that this guy would try to tarnish my name when my efforts proved to help in getting the unsafe design changed.

Here is the list of changes made to the course, which were after they already redesigned it at least 3 previous times!







Here is a list of the changes made that were forarded to me.


#3 tee moved down the hill closer to the pond, and away from #4 fairway. This makes the hole safer.

We added a new hole #5, teeing from near the entrance to the skate park away from the skate park. This actually is better for the course overall, because this tee will be very close to a place where HPRD can vend discs as well.

Hole #6 (teeing near the fire station) is going to be altered slightly for better flow (although there were no safety concerns there).

A mando is going to placed on hole 7 to make sure no one throws back over #6 pin to get to the #7 pin. It's very unlikely anyone would do that anyway, but it was possible for someone to attempt it. A strategic tree planting there would eliminate the need for the mando as well.

#9 pin was moved shorter, and away from the softball field, and toward the woods. There was actually a nice little cove in the woods that the pin could go, and no tree removal or even much trimming would be necessary. This pin had to move.....I think at least 50% of all approach shots could have ended up in the softball field where the pin was before.

#10 was eliminated, because we didn't want to play over the existing parking lot. HPRD had a problem with this hole as well, and the designer was not attached to the hole at all. It was a bad hole, and we all agreed to remove it from the design.

#13 pin was moved to the left and up the hill, to provide more room between #13 and #18.

#17 tee was moved down to the left field corner of the softball field fence. You now tee away from the softball field on that hole uphill to #17 pin.

#12 plays up the hill parallel to US 61. After further review, the left side of the fairway plays at least 200 ft from the highway, and the pin is farther away from that. The hole is also uphill, and you have to go uphill to reach the highway. It is my opinion that it's extremly unlikely for a disc to end up in the highway, unless it's intentionally thrown there. Moving the pin farther to the right would even further decrease this slight risk.

Thanks for the opportunity to clear the air on this matter.

If you received this email or know of somene that has could you please have them forward it to [email protected]

This is Jennifer McCray and after working with Dave McCormick for a few years now I can honestly say that all he wants is to install courses that will benefit all players in a safe fashion ! If you have ever attended a gdstour.com then you know that he tries very hard to make sure ALL players are having a great time and are being treated farely.

I also received this circulating email and I feel as if this person is slandering Dave McCormick and starting a bunch of uneeded and useless chatter amongst our disc golf community. None of us were involved in this matter but yet this person has now involved anyone who might have an email address...Isn't that slander? The answer is yes it is slander and this person SHOULD be held responsible for that !!!!!!!

In the disc golf world...everyone has a favorite disc, favorite manufacturer, favorite player and also a favorite disc golf course and everyone always hears or reads something that may say something bad about someone else...do not believe all that you hear and read unless you are personally involved with the conversations and emails between both parties. This kind of chatter happens all the time here where we live and we just shove the chatter away from us because it is a negative and not a positive occurance.

I find this person who sent the email to be very distasteful and obviously has no class what so ever.
This is MY opinion and not the opinion of Gateway Disc Sports ! Thank you for responding to this Dave!

Thank you,
Jen McCray

Thanks Jen for the kind words.

For those of you that are forwarding the email, PLease stop as there are no facts involved in the email.
The email is merely the opinion of one Recreational director that is upset that I went over his head to get the course redesigned.

Why would someone involved in disc golf forward this email to other disc golfers without even checking the facts?

My reputaion for designing disc golf courses speaks for itself, who is this park guy and how does did he gain enough crdibility for disc golfers to be forwarding the email to others.
Again I ask you to please stop unless you have the facts straight! :mad:

Ive been heavily involved in the installation of over 20 disc golf courses and played on 391, I can tell you for sure that the course design in Hannibal was as unsafe as I've ever seen.
I believe the amount of changes that were made even after 3 redesigns proves the point of how unsafe the original design must have been.

It will sure take a lot more than one irrational park employee to ruin my reputation! /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif ;)

If anyone would like to ask me questions regarding this matter feel free to email me at [email protected] or call my cell 314 303 1488, I have nothing to hide!!!!

Happy Birthday Dave. Hope you have a great day.

Happy B-Day Dave Mac. Hope to venture your way soon. Like next week soon if all works out. I'll give you a call. Sorry to hear about the bullstein with the HPRD. When it comes to designing courses, most parks and rec folks don't have the first clue about anything. Then when you come in an try to do it the right way they feel that their little libido has been crushed. So that probably explains his e-temper tantrum. Just brush that dirt off your shoulders. All I know is that you designed IMHO the best course in the world in Ozark Mountain! Also can't wait to play Centrailia. :D

Happy Birthday Dave. Have a great day

Happy Birthday Dave!!!

Happy B-Day David Mac!

Happy Birthday Dave!

I hope youre having a great day!

Happy Birthday Dave!!!!!!!!!! :D

Happy Birthday Dave!

A few questions for you.
I really like the new hybrids, but they definatly are much more stable than the softer ones that you came out with. It's replaced my wasp in my bag as a control hyzer driver, but I'm really interested in a "hybrid-L" that you mentioned. I'm looking for something a bit longer than a sabre that I can use for tunnel shots. Are you still considering this mold?
Also, do you have any entirely new molds in the works? Perhaps a long range driver like the Wraith or this new Discraft Surge?

The next disc we make will be a top for the Speed demon/Spirit/Illusion which will giove us 3 new high speed drivers.
They should all be less overstable than their counterparts and easier to flip of from Hyzer. In fatc I'm hoping the Illusion is actually flippy.

Most liekly the beadless wizard will be next and then we will work on an entirely new mold that is wraithish.
Ive been watching a few of the local players throw them for a while, they seem to be REALLY touch expecially into the wind and also a bit inconisstant from run to run and fly differently in diferent plastics,In their defense anytime you make a disc that is fast and not so overstable it can flip into the wind really easy.
I dont see a lot of top innova pros throwing a disc like this if they have enough power to throw tee birds and firebirds.
Discs like this are made for guys with only 300 power who need the dics to go 350, but this cannot happen without a little loss of accuracy and conrol.

We definaitely need a few models between the Sabre and Illusion for the masses but it doesnt seem it be hurting our top pro players.

An "L" version of the Sabre, Hybrid, Blaze and Demon would give us 4 new molds.
That is alot of models to keep up production on! :confused:

Thanks for the info. I'm really looking forward to the beadless wizard. I've got a freind who uses omega-ap's for approaches, and the wizard just dosn't have that much touch for me.
I've got a waith in my bag, but it's always in and out. It's the only disc I can consistently get 400+, but I can only throw it with a lot of room.
The Hybrid is a great disc, but I simply can't get it out that far. I've got a 172 2nd run "soft" hybird that flies kind of how I like, but I don't care for the floppiness of the plastic. Did you perhaps run any of these at 168-170? The max weight ones were way too much for me, and I'm currently seeing what I can do with a 172. (wow that rhymed)

We have sme 150 E hybrids that I think our some of the best discs we have ever run.
Most of our 150 clas stuff is really predictable.
I think Shawn will be hard to beat in Japan! :cool:

BTW,
Thanks so much for the Happy B-days from everyone! :)

Those 150 Hybrids do sound interesting.
What do you have in mind in terms of flight for the beadless wizard? Something that is very touchy, like an omega ap, or something slightly more stable?
And happy late birthday Dave.

what is the optimal height and angle (hyzer/anhyzer degree) to throw the illusion max distance (obviously nose down).

also i hear that these are better when they are beat in, is there a better way to beat them in to not mess them up. (like a roc that u throw into a tree/wall several times)

Depends what Illusion your talking about. My S that I throw just by throwing it a few times it got beat in. With my E I have hit trees,fences,bleachers,and road but there is nothing wrong with it and is beat in pretty good.

Threw a green proto hybrid a couple times this weekend...

It will hold what ever line your put it on...not too great in a headwind though...

i also have to remember that this disc needs to be thrown higher than some of my other discs

and i am still loving my supersoft wizard

one of my friends yelled at me when I was leaving the course this weekend...

"Stop hitting those 40 ft putts!"...every long put was hit with a supersoft....

Are you joking?

My Hybrid is one of the new runs of the evolution plastic and it is a hog. I don't think that you could make it finish right if you put it on a roler line.

this was a proto hybrid...not one of the newer runs

Yeah my new one is Beefy too but my older one is $$$

I have not thrown any of the older ones, but the new Ehybrid I have compares a lot to my firebirds. However I can hold an anyhyzer line with it and throw long flex shots and even get it to stand up and fly straight for most of its flight.

Yeah my new one is Beefy too but my older one is $$$



I would like to get my hand on a newer one, but I think I have enough disc that could fit the same purpose.

I need a really good headwind driver. I am using a max weight Zflick and even that is starting to flipover in a headwind...

I have tried a spirit/speed demon, but I jsut can't get the nose angle and height correct since those discs are the only ones that are that picky about height and nose angle

the other day, on a hole at a course I was at that plays probably around 375-400 and it was into i would say 15-20mph head wind I was able to throw the hybrid I have and it flipped up a little but held a great line and I was able to get withing putting distance with it. Seems to throw fairly nice in the wind.

yeah...like i said...i want to try a newer one...

Do you make black wizards hard or soft, and where can I get some

There were some soft black ones run at the end of summer. Sunking had them, but I don't know if they still do.

Call the shop. I know they have quite a few black wizards in firm and medium. Not sure about SS though, but I imagine they have SS in black too.

Do you make black wizards hard or soft, and where can I get some



I have black wizards in Firm and SS so I know they have it in those 2 for sure.

A guy here in Houston has like 50 of them for sale.

Ive got one of those black ones with a st louis open stamp, its sweeet.

I found a SS in my collection with a twisted flyer stamp. Also have a black that's labeled as a soft, but it feels more like a SS. Yea, call the shop. They'll find 'em if they're around.

There should be plenty of at least soft and medium, compared too inoova the flex would both be considered firm.
The surface grips is extremely tacky and if you want them less flexible just work them back and forth in your hand

There should be plenty of soft and medium, compared too innova the flexability would both be considered more firm.
The surface grip on all wiazrds is extremely tacky and if you want them more flexible just work them back and forth in your hand to loosen up the polymers

I have some black mediums that are money. They have some rigidity to them and are extremely grippy.

Hey Joe,
I have a few more questions i would like to add to the survey.
Can you call me today on my cell?

I will give you a call when I get off work this afternoon.

I guess I missed the call try me tomorrow early.
I am doing a final wlakthorugh on a new course at around noon, should be # 17 in the area :cool:

Dave,
Thanks so much for the GDS Tour event. It went really well and everybody seemed to really grasp the putters only one disc format. All of the positive feedback leads me to believe that Winter Wizards is going to be a yearly event for years to come. Out of the 20 or so people that participated in the long drive competition, only one had ever thrown a Gateway driver before. So Gateway certainly got some exposure out of the event.

Thanks again,
Rob
Winter Wizard Pictures (http://nudga.org/Gallery/Winter-Wizards)

? about wizard plastic. i currrently have a medium and supersoft. my issue is that with my medium i hit the chains ~80-90% from ~25' and ~40% of the time it bounces off and doesn't stick in. my supersoft doesnt seem to have as much glide as the medium and usually falls just short but when i do hit it hangs on almost everytime.
what i was thinking of doing to solve my problem was getting a soft plastic and hopefully achieving a happy-medium. so heres the question: does the soft wizard the same glide and flight as a medium but grip the chains more like a supersoft?

Smyth,
I have rarely heard of wizards bouncing off the chians and certainly not at a 40% rate :confused:

We use dry blends for most of our putter runs and the softer of the materilas migrate to the surface, so even the firmest of wizards stick to the chains pretty well.

There are runs of Wizards athat are not as gripy as others and players usuallly like thes for laying up as the " not so Tacky" surface allows the discs to pass through broanches and leaves.
Another good purpose of the bnot as tacku wizars is that instead of immediately grapping he ground on the lay ups the dics will "check up" or spin slightly in place when it first strikes the ground.
This is a great benifit for layups to undalating greens when you dont want roll aways.
Even a 5 feet ground grabbing roll off will hurt your putting game more than if the disc just checked up in place!

If you could buy a 5 for $35 stack of Wizards and find another one for putting, using the one you have for laying up or flex the one you have a whole bunch in your hande loosening up the polymers which wil make it more flexible, but proabaly wont change the actual surface grip much/
The E and supr sfot Wizard are more overstable then SOFT MEDIUM and FIRM which all have just about the same glide.

We will be working on a little more domey Super soft this month as one of our sponsored layers George smith likes em really flexible, but domey.

Ive never had a problem with any of my wizards bouncing off the chians, and I have them in every firmness.

i have nvr tried the flex thing i guess ill give it a try.
and i do plan on purchasing the wizard special when i get extra $.

also remember alot depends on style of putt as to what happens. this style of mine isnt completly refined yet but when it is 50' wont be a problem ( i am within aa foot of the basket almost every putt from 50').

o and another ? will you guys be making beadless wizard at all in the near future?

Wizarrrrrrrrrd's! My Pro Putter that make's me win in Texas!
Thank you Gateway!
They should rename this putter the "fundamental". :cool:

Wizarrrrrrrrrd's! My Pro Putter that make's me win in Texas!
Thank you Gateway!
They should rename this putter the "fundamental". :cool:



Or Money!

Yes to the beadles Wizard, I believe it wil called the magic.

The money maker could be a cool stamp.

Dave, do you know about how many discs you've run in black Evolution. That plastic is so sweet, and not too easy to find, so I was wondering how rare it is. Thanks.

Yes to the beadles Wizard, I believe it wil called the magic.

The money maker could be a cool stamp.



Beadless Wizard ? Would it be any taller or deeper rim ?

what is the most stable version of the element available? I am needing a very stable midrange, not as stable as a demon, but a little more high speed stable than a Z wasp. I played this weekend with Boro, he was using a red element but I didnt catch the plastic it was in. :confused:

Do you mean stable straight or stable overstable?

I would say E Element X 182g for overstable midrange comparible to a more overstable wasp.

is there a chart somewhere of the gateway plastic? I am mostly unfamiluar with the lines that are available, I do not want to ask for someone to compare the plastic to another manufacturer, I am just looking for what is available and perhaps the MSRP on each line. I will do some looking around and see what I can come up with to actually put my hands on but a breakdown would help.


Thanks /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

http://www.gdstour.com/discs/index.html

There ya go, most retail is about 10 - S, 12- H, 14- E

You might want to try out the blaze as well!

The blaze is one of the most under rated discs in all of disc golf. The S-Blaze when broken in is the shizzle. Love that disc.

I appreciate the help, I am pretty happy with what I am throwing now, I just need something to fill that overstable midrange nitch, I think I will try the element and see if that does it, Thanks again.

If your looking to fill the overstable niche then try an E Element-X. The Element is more stable than overstable. If your looking for a really, really overstable mid then the Demon is what you'll want. I've also found myself throwing the Hybrid as my overstable midrange instead of the Element-X because it's slightly more predictable.

The element is NOT overstable and I feel that you need an "E" blaze. These will be more overstable at high speds than a Wasp. I would say it could be compared to a slightly faster sentinel.

They are way more overstable than the sentinel!!!

The Element X's are closer to the sentinels in my opinion. :D

Yeah but the Element Xs are shorter. I love those E blazes though. I may have officially gotten my bag down to 3 spirits, 2 Illusions,2 Hybrids, 3 sabres, 2 blazes, 3 Wizards and maybe an element x.

what is the most stable version of the element available? I am needing a very stable midrange, not as stable as a demon, but a little more high speed stable than a Z wasp. I played this weekend with Boro, he was using a red element but I didnt catch the plastic it was in. :confused:


If the discs was orange it was an E Element, if it was red it was and E element-X

Yes sir it was red and naked, I figured it was the E plastic, that stuff feels very nice in the hand. I will be on the lookout for a local outlet I assume that discs unlimited will be able to help me get into the drivers seat on one of these discs.

I have been a little hesitant to try the gateway plastic again, I threw it when the sabre first came out, that old plastic was very inconsistant, and hard as steel. Congrats on the progress that you have made, and keep up the good work.

Yeah that is the only element X I have ever really kept in my bag.

could someone actually explian what the flight chart #'s mean. it is really confusing, not like any of the other companies.

of course maybe one day all the companies will make it easier on us and apply there discs to a universal chart (i wish).

How is it confusing? They are all based on a 1-10 scale? :confused: I don't have it right in front of me but I remember it being easy to read.

I find it easy to read as well.... Discrafts is in my opinion the WORST rating system.

Speed - How fast the disc flies. 0 being the slowest - 10 being the fastest. Given the same arm speed a putter will fly slower than a driver.

Glide - How long the disc stays aloft. 0 being the least amount of time - 10 being the most. In general, when you throw a putter for distance you have to throw it pretty high in order to go far, this is because they don't have great glide and will drop faster than a mid or driver. This is a bit confusing because the chart rates a wizard as having the same glide as an illusion. Not so sure about that...

Turn - The amount of turn into the spin a disc has. This can be a measure of stability. 0 means the disc resists turn the most - 10 means it'll flip right over and roll away. For a RHBH throw this would mean a disc with a higher turn number will be more likely to turn right at the beginning of it's flight.

Fade - The fade of the disc away from the spin at the end of it's flight. 0 meaning that it won't fade at all but it'll go straight or continue turning - 10 meaning it'll start fading hard very soon into it's flight.

Hope that helps and I'm sure someone will speak up if I'm incorrect in my interpretation.

http://www.gdstour.com/discs/index.html

ok where does it say 1-10? next if it has a turn value of 2 what does that really mean? the speed and glide is easy to figure out but the turn and fade arent all that specific. there is no gideline to really go off. am i to assume that 5 is straight or something? idk

and yes discraft DEFINITLY has the worst rating system by far. innova probably has the best b/c they fully explian what the values mean. centering 0 as competely straight is easy to understand.

Are you serious?

Illusion: Speed 10 Glide 8 Turn 2 Fade 5

turn of 2 means that it is easier to turn the disc over than a turn value of 0.

Fade of 8 means that the disc will fade off at the end of the flight more than a fade of 5.

http://www.gdstour.com/discs/index.html
next if it has a turn value of 2 what does that really mean?



Most of Gateways discs are stable to overstable, that's why the highest number here is a 4. If you want something flippy getting one in the 'S' plastic and breaking it in will give you some turn.

That's how I've interpretted it. And it seems to compare to what I've learned by throwing them.

Are you serious?

Illusion: Speed 10 Glide 8 Turn 2 Fade 5

turn of 2 means that it is easier to turn the disc over than a turn value of 0.

Fade of 8 means that the disc will fade off at the end of the flight more than a fade of 5.



and where on the page does it say that about turn NOWHERE!? but thanks for telling me now i understand what their turn valus mean.
but with fade does that mean that 0 is a dead straight fade? my point is that there is no value that has a denfined direction. whereas innova you know 0 means straight. thats my point.
a person who is not expierenced with gateway and is looking to get into it might not understand it and not bother. me being one of those people. word of mouth doesn't really work in an area were no one has even heard of gateway unless they are serious about the sport and did the research.

hey Dave--there is discussion of rim width happening on the surge thread... thought you might want to weigh in...

0 would mean Zero fade and Zero turn would mean the same.
I feel having each rating based on 10 would be a lot easier then having 1 based on 5 one on 6 one one 11 and one on -5.
Most of our ratings are based off of each other, so if you know one of the discs ther rating for the others will make more sense!
I tried hard to get a universal flight chart before I relaeased ours, but there was not much support from the other 2 at the time.
I believe Blakes( disc review) or Marshalll streets are pretty accurate.

If someone wants a Gatewat Flight chart emailed to them just email be [email protected]

Hey Dave to be honest I have never thrown gateway. I see some stuff at tournys but not much. I want to a few and see how they work, but I am unable to buy online and was wondering if you sell in any stores anywhere in Oklahoma.

You can call Gateway directly at (314) 487-5204 and buy discs if you want to go that route

Get a hold of Joe Rotan at twisted flyer and preorder some stuff through him or find a vendor ninyour are that is wiling tkae on the line and I'll kick you down some godies! :D

You want to get some Gateway discs and step up your game.
Our discs work very well in windy conditions.
If I'm not mistaken, It's always windy in Norman :D

The 5 for $35 or 10 for $55 missed stamped special is the way to get your self set up!
Paypal is best [email protected]

David,

Very cool that you are coming out with more discs! I do have a concern, though. I throw Gateway in large part because of your limited selection. You make discs that have specific uses and don't provide for too much overlap. Your new p&a disc is a good example. The new wizard (magic?) is another example. Where, though, will 3 different versions of this new distance driver fit in? I can already throw an Illusion farther than a wraith or surge with good control, why are you makeing a "wraithish" disc and where will it fit within your line as far as its purpose and intended audience? And why 3 versions of the same disc and not 3 discs???

Dear Dave,

I have been throwing the E Illusion as of late and am wondering, why does this disc bomb past anything else I throw and come out of the box @ perfect stability? Well I guess thats not an answerable question but heres one, will this disc continue to be produced in the future?

This may be asinine, but what are the different plastics that Gateway offers, and what are their pros/cons? I'm thinking of switching to some gateway products, but I'm not familiar with any of the plastic types or disc available. I only know that I love the wizard softies immensly.

Dustin

Willie,
The Illusion whether in H or E will always be produced, it's a great disc, why wouldnt we?
This disc has the longest linear length of the wing as well as the most mass of any disc on the market besides the epic (which is not really a golf disc).This disc also has a slightly larger diameter, combined with the beef on the rim, makes it the most GYROSCOPIC golf disc on the market as well, which is one of the main reasons they can be BOMBED so far.

The downside is that the volume of the dics or Cubic CM or is around 160. The denisity, (WEIGHT) of high end polymers like our H and Evolution proline is 1.14 specific gravity in it's lightiest form. This make this disc very hard to produce in the high end plastic without adding something lighter.
Most runs of E Illusions have been prototypes, as we try to find the right combination of flex, dome and weight without having so many reject parts.

We will be working on a BIG run of H and E illusions soon and they should be more available for players soon.

Once we get a big run of illusions we will market them like CRAZY and get them in players hands so they can see for themsleves how well this disc performs! :cool:

also, i just read something about Gateway having a hemp based plastic. can you fill me in?

Dustin

We will be working on a BIG run of H and E illusions soon and they should be more available for players soon.





This is a good thing :) I need a bunch more! Any chance there will be a bunch available when I come down around the 22nd of april?

same here...I just got hooked up with two e-illusions last week. So...I could use another 10 or so for backups. This disc just flat out bombs down the fairway. The wraith, surge etc. have nothing on the Illusion as far as speed and glide.

Definately, the H and E are just money for me. The H being more of a hyzerflip/roller disc though.

I talked to Justin today form Florida,where he is playing some of the ball golf courses ( Fligh 18)
He aid the lates run of S illsuions fly futher than any we have made in any plastic.
We only ran about 20 but could run more if there is demand for the Illusion in the S if it goes farther

We just ran about 350 Nike Spirits and 250 Nike Speed Demons. Already sold around 40 today.
The Nike type plastic is very similar to the original CE, which is extremely hard to run without getting a lot of cosmetic flaws and Why innova basically stopped running them. ( plus the plastic holds up to long :D)

Most of the discs would be considered X-outs just like the nike spirits were.
They are still probably the best discs we ever made outside of the Wiazrds.

like this ever again as most are not clean enough for retail stores.

Since they are not full retail value and we wont be sending them out to distributors or have enough to place on our website, they can be purchased through me by pay pal [email protected] or by calling the shop 314 487 5204.

The cost is 2 for $25 with a max of 10 sets.


Both of these discs feel and fly just like the 1st few runs of Nike Spirits, the colors are orange, red and a bright lime green. Some are translucent and other are more solid in color.
Some of the Speed demons are down in the mid 160's while most of the Spirits are in the low 170's.

Dave,
Are you still interested in doing a run of Led Zeppelin putters?

Thanks
Dustin

Sure how many do you want?

Yeahhh, some ZOSO Wizards would be awesome...

you can get them on the sunking site I think but they're only black and soft, best get them through gds. Dave how do nike spirits fly compared to normal E?

I'm thinking about 15-20 Wizard softies. I won't be able to officially pay for them until early may, as that is when I go back to work. But I will be purchasing them then. Should I hook up with you then to get them made?

Also, do you still produce the hemp plastic? I think a few of those putters in Hemp plastic would be killer also.

Thanks
Dustin

Dustin,
We have had a tremendous spring sales of our discs, at least triple the amount of last year. We are low on most flexibilties of Wizards, but should have plenty by may. whenever your ready just let me know.

Willie, I think I mentioned the flight in a post above.
The are a little flatter than the production runs of the evolution( which are the blends of E and alittle H, that have more dome) Thes have that KILLER subtle dome like the kelly green ones!.
The plastic is indestructable and we have them in red, orange and a lime green.

Of course they need a little flexing and maybe a wack or 2 into something solid, for them to lose some of the overstableness. :cool:

Sold another 10 sets of 2 this morning already and have had a lot of calls to the shop.

I will make sure we hold back some for team members as I doubt we will try and run these again with the nike stuff.

So Dave how come you didnt make any runs of Illusions in the Nike plastic, the E ones are like Element stability and It seems the nike adds a little overstability to it and would have been a really nice disc. I was rolling the E this weekend and getting it well over 450, came close to birdieing a 530' hole. Also It holds an anhyzer line really well. At the course I was playing (FDR Park) theres a 360' complete anhyzer hole thats tough to get the distance and turn correct (sabre is perfect accept the low ceiling) and the E illusion was perfect. Would the illusion just have produced too many X outs? Thanks for saving some if you can.

My understanding is that the Illusion can't be ran in the Nike plastic because of a weight issue.

Willie,
The Illsuions is the BIGGEST conventional golf disc by mass, on the market, especially so on the wide wing.( I dont count the epic or any of the other BIG diamter discs of the past)
This is most likely why it rolls the farthest and in all reality goes the farthest ( for those who have the arm).

Unfortunatley this also poses a problem with the high end plastics being ran in it, as the lightest of the HIGH end plastic is around 1.14. The Cubic centimeter or cc of the Illusion is 162, meaning that even the lightest PURE Urethane would make the disc weigh 184 grams.
The nike stuff is 1.2 which would make the Illusions weigh even more, like 194.
I have something coming that we may be able to use to make a translucent Illusion, but I wouldnt count on it.

If we can get some blends that fly the way the ones you have already, we will be able to sell a bunch, even if they are in solid colors, look what innova is doing with the Star.
Players are literally throw their clearish champion stuff right out of their bags for the Star plastic which is what we have been doing the whole time with the Evolution.

These types of blends are better for the players in grip and flight, both of which adds control to your game!!!

Hey Dave. If you could hold on to a few of those spirits that would be $$$$. I will call you tomorrow about some other stuff too including 150 class plastic for the Japan Open.

We have some great 150 stuff for you to use in Japan.
I'll call you soon!

Hi Dave,

I talked with Chad about sponsorship opps. for the River City Rumble and he said anything youd like to contribute would be great! Player package filler, CTPs, whatever you feel comfortable with is welcomed!

Hey Dave,
I noticed that you have fewer players on your team? Are you downsizing?

Actually we are sponsoring more players than ever, but for them to make it to the "team page"s getting a bit harder.

I know we are in the middle of some web development, so that might be the case.

Yeah because it looks like I am not on there but travis still is.

...i wanna be a gateway kid... :D

Jared ask and you shall receive,
Call me when you get this, timing is everything. 314 303 1488
We are looking for 5 more pros and 10 more ams to add to the team and then we are going to stop adding players to the team page of the website. We hope to have 20 pros and 20 ams on the team, but could sponsor as many players as we feel like investing in!
We will still sponsor players with merch but unless they perform at a high level they will not make it on the actual team. Kind of like a B team, but unofficially.
I know you have a chance to be one of the best players in the game.
If you could have access to our current discs and future discs (6-10 more in the next few months) I think it could help.
You have power and finesse, the 2 things it takes to throw Gateway.

314 303 1488

David McCormack

Gateway Disc Sports

Golf Discs, Bags and Baskets

For information on running disc golf events or for

Course design and Installation go to:

www.gdstour.com (http://www.gdstour.com)

or call

314 487 5204 (office)

314 303 1488 (cell)

Jared, nice talking to you tonight look for that box of discs and let me know what you think after a week or so with them!

thanks alot Dave. how long does it usually take for those to get to where they're going?

what are the requirements for getting sponsored?

I'm interested if you are Dave!!

Dustin

Dave/JP
I hope everything works out for you 2.

Dave you just got a good KID.

JP the sky is the limit, reach for it.

Jared, the discs probably get sent out UPS and depending how quick they get out, I got mine in about 3 days or so.

Hopefully I get to play with you sometime again in the future (4th round KC last year), and I wish you luck in the future as well.

What about me?!? I wanna be with Gateway! :D

I'm too old for Gateway...At least that's what I was told. I think they just know how bad I really suck; that and I have only tried 3 Gateway discs.

Gateway disc are excellent i just cant find any of there disc that can hold a anyhyzer.

Element, somewhat beat in H/S illusion, sabre

I find these all to be great on anyhyzer lines, but with the number of new discs being released this year hopefully there will be more discs to fit everyones needs.

i threw my sabre and wizard religiously today...the sabre rocks!!! wizard is awesome for everything 310 and in. i definately think i could get used to this stuff real quick!!

I throw my Wizard for straight shot's up to 220 or 225.

Dave,

Any word on when that new run of H and E Illusions is gonna happen?

E illusion out of the box holds a great anhyzer but is hard to hyzerflip anhyzer.

Hey Dave, (or anyone else)
I have a question about the E Element. I won an E- Element X at a tourney last year. The plastic is very firm. My E-Wizards are much softer and much more grippy. Which E plasticis the E-Element more like?

I am guessin the Element X, but I want to check.

well i have thrown one e-element...and it wasn't crazy stiff...the plastic kinda felt like an e-sabre, but i am just throwin that out there

I did an experiment late last year where I replaced every disc in my bag with a Gateway disc. On my home course I lost a couple of strokes the first couple of times, but when I got used to the discs and became confident with them I was able to shoot just as well with some improvements over my previous bag. The wizard alone shaved a few strokes off. Since tournament season has started I went back to my normal bag with some changes instigated by the Gateway experiment. The wizard is now my main putter and approach disc. The E Sabre found it's way into my midrange lineup along with the Hybrid (still learning the new version of this one, so it's not a goto disc, yet) and Demon. The E Illusion is what I reach for now instead of an Orc or Wraith in most situations. I played in my second Open tournament just last weekend and cashed, so I'd say the results have been pretty good.

I think that you'll find that with the line-up of discs that Dave has now, you won't find any holes in your bag. I guess I should think about replacing my old PDGA golf bag with a Gateway one now.

Good luck with your tournaments.

An "S" Sabre or Blaze(I prefer Blaze) when worked in will hold a great anhyzer line.

stan, just wondering why you changed your bag back?

I have much, much more time in on the other discs in my bag. Especially the Roc (I carry 4-5 of them). I'm not sponsored or anything, so right now I throw what I know. Since I'm going to be playing in two upcoming NT's I need all the help I can get.

Just wanted to give a quick shout out to Nikko Locastro for his fine 3rd place finish in the Bowling Green Amateur Championships. Way to finish strong man.

Great finish Nikko!

Now me... I am just going to forget the weekend ever happend

Way to go Nikko. Great job in BG! Top 5 there is almost as good as a win anywhere else in ADV. I just found a picture of Nikko from the Ozarks the other day, I think it was when he was 11 or 12. He still cussed like a sailor back then, lol!

well i have thrown one e-element...and it wasn't crazy stiff...the plastic kinda felt like an e-sabre, but i am just throwin that out there



Those are in the older Evo Plastic (very firm), I have a few of those. I just got a new Element X in the newer E Plastic (floppy like clear Evo) and I must say it's pretty sweet. Very much comparible to Star and such. but feels way better. Now I just need to come up with some cash so I can buy an Illusion/spirt/saber in this plastic.

This new plastic is the bomb

Id say the new plastic I got my element x's and elements in was more akin to champion rather than star, The element x's were red and translucent, my elements were clear (sic when I wiped the stamp cause it looked like a ghost stamp. The only plastic thats like star are the drivers that I've gotten, some other runs may have been more like star, but the middies I got were like champion. Can't wait for the new run of E Illusions my proto is amazing, I was putting this well past the wriaths in the rest of the pro lead card, brinster was the only one getting past me (and he did that with a teebird man he has an arm). They're the best out of box stability driver too, little understable for me (mines a 170) great for rollers, anhyzer and hyzerflips too. They werent rolling over except in a headwind, usually just flipping staying straight and not a lot of fade, hard to get a flat hyzer though. The best driver out there on the market now, tons of speed, lots of glide, and very dependable.

Congrats to the whole Gateway Gang this weekend, even Chris Schmidt and Chis Boro who took a week off the pro circuit to help us promote at the Bowling Green event.

Johnny McCray won in a very exciting finish on the last hole in Gainesville over Climo and Schultz, Double G fished a close 4th( 2 weeks in a row I think)
Willie wiith his 2nd place finish in Jersey and Matt Hall placing 5th in Texas.


Yeah Nikkos 3rd place score out of 580? is one of his bes finishes, and he handled him self quite professioanlly( until the tornados on the ride home had him and Boro acting like teenage girls) :confused:

Nikko only played to about 70% to his potential and could have still easliy won the event losing only by 3 ( with 3 out of bounds on the fist 2 holes and another on the last.
There were only a handful of guys with as much raw potential as Nikko and nobiody he played against out drove his illusion bombs. His Wizard thrwoing ability id top pro quality, but he has the george smith-never-layup-syndrome!
That costs him a few shots around the green.

Justin Bougher played solid all weekend with a 12 place finsish in advanced beating what like 276 guys!!!!

Take away Devans 1st round and hes tied with Nikko, its tough to play hobson for a big arm without seeing the course at all. Come to St Louis and get your arm stretched out!

Any other Gateway Guys want to post their results from BG or anywhere else this past weekend feel free!

BTW,
Got to meet a lot of great people, test fly the Odysseys with Billie Lund and had a few little chats with some up and coming guys.

You okie boys work on billie, he prime Gateway Naterial, smooth with a ton of power( have him emial me his address)

george smith 2nd place at the monkey island open

I just saw on the wfdf.org page that the oddessy, nighthawk, and scream have been PDGA approved.

Schweeeeeet!!!!. Dave is there a chance I can get some drivers before my NT. I am down to a spirit and illusion for big D.

Matt...check your email...I sent you some documents that I need you to fill out and get sent back to me. I sent it to the email you have listed on stick.

What is quest at, this is what those discs are listed under, and the nighthawk, i feel so out of the know. Good luck at the nt matt.

What are the Nighthawk and Scream going to be like?

I have but I can't open it (microsoft word is messed up) but I will do it at school tomorrow.

Thanks Matt...need to get stuff updated...

Yeah for sure. :D

Glad to hear the odysseys are updated I'm playing a course this weekend that I surely can use them. Anyone who hasn't tried this disc yet should it is great.

What is quest at, this is what those discs are listed under, and the nighthawk, i feel so out of the know. Good luck at the nt matt.



Yes, I second that, more info please....