I think it's about time that we got a thread going for questions about Gateway discs aimed at David Mac.

My first question is regarding glow plastic. Since the days are getting shorter and playing rounds after work is becoming impossible without having glow discs I was wondering how many discs in the Gateway line (if any) are currently available in glow plastic. I've heard of glow Wizards but have never seen any. If nothing is currently available, are there any plans for future availability?

I have two glow wizard and these things glow quite well, not quite like the photon glow. But they are impressive. I think glow discs are the best invention ever. Cause with the shorter days, I find myself playing rounds into the night to finish them up and its always nice to pull out the glow discs for easy finding. I hope to see the Evolution Plastic offered in glow in the dark.

As posted in another thread, the Element has been run in Glow plastic thats very similar to the GlowFly material, and word has it that it glows till the suns back up!

David says:


We ran some glow Elements tonight.
They are made with the SUPER glow material similiar to the DGA glofly.
It takes about 30 minutes for a full charge but then they stay glowing for several hours.
Regular charging works great too!!

If you go to Gateway's site (http://www.gdstour.com), you'll find a lot of information. The message boards there are Gateway specific, and Dave visits these boards a lot more. However, I'm sure DickinDeadHead and I can answer any question you have about Gateway discs.

As for glow discs, the older Gateway discs (Wizard, Demon, Blaze, Sabre) have all been run at one time. I don't think Dave runs glow S regularly, so your best bet would be to call the shop. I've owned Glow Sabres and Wizards, and they are the brightest of any glow discs out there.

If you are looking for a particular disc, call or e-mail Dave. He would be glad to help you.

Roght Now I know we have a few Glow Wizards and about 200 glow Elements. We use a glow material that is quite different from regular zinc phosphate.
They take about 15 minutes under the sun or 30 under flourescent light to get a full charge and stay glowing for several hours.
We are moving our shop and are finding a lot of older discs we have stashed.There are some Demons and Blazes that we have in boxes and will get on a shelf soon.
We hope to have a full line-up of glow ran over the next few months and will get them up on our site when we do!

Glow evolution is a possibility, but urathane is hard enough to run by itself (:

Guru, Dave, and others,

Gateway recently submitted the Element for PDGA testing. This disc was found to comply with all PDGA requirements, so it has been added to the list of PDGA-approved discs (attached Excel file). The PDGA logo and "PDGA Approved" are now permitted for use by the manufacturer in association with this product. Test measurements are listed below.

Element
Certification No. 04-12
Outside diameter: 22.1 cm
Height: 1.7 cm
Rim depth: 1.3 cm
Rim thickness: 1.3 cm
Inside rim diameter: 19.6 cm
Flexibility rating: 6.35 kg
Rim configuration rating: 39.5
Maximum weight allowed: 183.4 g

Discontinuously,
Jeff Homburg (#1025)
PDGA Tech Standards Chair

Hi,
I would like to see that attached excel-file /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Dave:
Have you gotten my emails? I'm thinking on coming down there sometime soon, b/c I would love to see the new shop, and all the old stuff that turns up durring the moving! I'll keep in touch - I think I have a fall break coming up.

I haven't thrown Gateway yet. Unless you count that one time I missed a gimme money putt. (ahem...I have the Gateway tour bag) Anyhow, is anything comparable to a Valkyrie?

I would say an Illusion is similiar in a lot of ways.
The Illusion is faster with just as long of glide and there is more range in height.
A valk is really sensitive to height.
If you get them nose up they will stall out pretty quickly.
If you get the nose down they will turn over and flip.
The Illusion is MUCH better into the wind!

Our H illusion is as good as any driver ever made, we just havent had a big production run yet and put them in enough good players hands for review. Once we do the response will speak for itself.

A typical Gateways pro line up and comparison to innova discs!.
E spirit or Speed Demon (firebird)
H illusion ( valk/beast/orc HYBRID)
S illusion long turns & Big Rollers
E Sabre (tee bird/Eagle)
S sabre ( TL Tee bird)
S blaze or S demon (KC ROC)
S or E Element (beat roc/CE cobra Hybrid)
H or E wizard overstable KC Aviar
Firm, medium wizard (KC aviar)
Soft wizard (aviar P&A)

If you read the Barry shults article, it's useful to have S or matted versions of your main go to discs for weather conditions and a sometimes more comfortable feel!!!

One of my friends throws Gateway discs and every now and then I get a chance to throw them.

I like the Spirit. It has some decent glide to it. The illusion for some reason doesn't fly the way I would want it to. To get any major distance with the illusion, I have to throw it with anyhyzer and rely on the overstability to bring the disc back.

The one thing that I don't like about Gway is that a lot of their discs are really overstable coming out of a box. It seems like the blaze or sabre(i can't remember which) would be a decent straight flyer, but I just can't get used to the high dome.

I really like the infrastructure of the Gateway bags, but I wish they would use a different material to make the bag. It seems like the bags are more prone to wear and tear.

Dave what Demon do you compare to a KC ROC? Ive thrown some demons and Id think that the Whippet would be a good comparision,as I can turn a brand new Roc over, and dont turn Demons and Whippets over,at least for long.I thought the Demons were really overstable?

Yeah here's some comparisons, in my opinion...

Speed Demon - 250g Z Flick (yes two hundred fifty)
Spirit - Firebird/Monster (faster and breaks in to super Eagle)
Illusion - Predator (much faster and longer)
Sabre - TL (but straighter)
Blaze - Banshee (more glide)
Demon - Whippet (breaks into long ROC)
Element - Buzzz
Wizard - Aviar (longer, straighter, more better!)

Chase,
I was thinking slightly broken in demon or G6i.
There are a lot of players here in St louis and elsewhere who throw demons for mid-range and have them broken into pure straight flyers and even slight turnover discs.
Of course you need to have power and technique for even a broken in demon to work for anything straight.

My question to everyone would be, Would you rather have discs that flew exactly how you want it right out of the box and then gets too flippy after a few hits or would you rather have one that flies exactly how you want it after a few hits and stays that way from then on.

Players who have taken the time to develop the overstable Gateway discs into there game know how long you can keep a gateway disc in your bag because of this fact.

We are only on our 8th mold( 3 stable and 5 overstable) and our players who use exclusivley Gateway can compete with almost anybody. By the time we get 12 or so molds we should be able to reach a wider spectrum of player.

The current stable to understable version of the Element appeals to the newbie and is really easy for them to control. The E elements seem to take trees well and still stay stable.
The next 2 versions will be more overstable but never reach the overstabilty of a demon. They could get close in overstabilty to a blaze only slower and hopefully longer glide. There will always be a trade off in mid-ranges with stability and glide!

My question to everyone would be, Would you rather have discs that flew exactly how you want it right out of the box and then gets too flippy after a few hits or would you rather have one that flies exactly how you want it after a few hits and stays that way from then on.




I totally agree. I would much rather have a disc that will break in to the way I like it. The truth is, I don't like most Gateway discs when they are new, but when they are broken in, they are the best ever! I think that's why most people don't give Gateway a fair chance. They don't realize that the disc will break into what they want.

I have a Demon that is 2 years old, has six aces, has no dings or knicks anywhere! Now when this disc was new, it would just dive left and drop after 100'. Now it flies easilly to 350' in any direction. I have blazes and SD's that are the same way! Dave has the right idea going here.

I did a little "science" experiment lately that I thought some might find interesting. I took an S Spirit and cut off the "flare" on the bottom of the disc -- the Spirit has close to a bead at that point, and I figured that was part of what made it overstable (this disc was new, not thrown much). I then took it out in the field across from my house to compare it to a broken in Spirit and a Flash. What do you think happened?

Well, the "shaved" Spirit went from being somewhat overstable to totally, incredibly understable. It would be a good roller, only it was so understable that the roll always wanted to veer way off to the right. I could not believe how hard right it would turn. Whoa!

The broken-in Spirit (green, 160 gm) flew well, but the Flash (yellow, 171) consistently got more distance. I tried several throws at various wind angles (there was a light breeze) and the results were consistent. I suspect I would have had better luck with an Illusion, which I believe is more similar in configuration to the Flash than is the Spirit. Hey, I like Gateway and carry several of their discs in my bag (Demon, Wizard, Apache), so I am not trying to stir up a fight. I just wanted to pass along how much of a change in flight pattern there was stemming from what seemed to be a small change in disc shape. I am sure David Mac wrestles with these issues continually as he works on prototypes of new discs.

First I want to say I am a firm believer in breaking in discs and that they become better with age, I have 3 Rocs in the bag at different beatness and 3 Aviars same thing.
But how do you break in a super overstable disc that is only useful in special situations (Speed Demons / Whippets )...Do you stand in front of a wall and just throw it at the wall or do you do the tumble dry techinque? The theory is great, but to beat a disc correctly and evenly it takes playing a course and time not just hitting walls and slamming them into the ground....to me it just seems counter productive, I am not against Gateway or anything, and I really want to try some of the discs, but the word on the street about them is they are super overstable: I have a decent arm but I would not consider myself a power player and I like to throw hyser flips as much as possible and I don't think playing alot of rounds with a super overstable disc till it gets beat up will help my game that much. Not to mention the fact, what if you lose that perfectly seasoned disc? You constantly have to be beating up discs so you are not worried about losing your seasoned Speed Demon.

I perfer MidRange and Short Range discs that beat slowly and can be thrown usefully right out of the box, allowing for a constant rotation of newer, used, beat. From what I hear about Gateway S Plastic it sounds like the perfect plastic for this. Drivers are a totally different story and I am still in search of a driver that fits my game, therefore I will be trying some S & E Sabres and possible an Illusion.

Cheers,
Matt

I guess I want to know how you beat up your discs???

With this theory you should just pick the most overstable disc that is the most comfortable in your hand and just beat it till it flies like you want it????

innova makes a glow roc in a stiff plastic, which adds a nice element of feel to the most useful disc i've ever thrown

like most disc golfers - being a huge wizard fan, would you consider making the wizard in glow in the stiff plastic? the soft wizards just don't do it for me

I bought a glow wizard from www.discgolfworld.com (http://www.discgolfworld.com) and the sucker is hard as a rock. Seriosuly. I use it for driving and approach. I then use a soft glow wizard for putts. What I would like to know is, is there anyone out there that putts with an E Wizard. I have never seen any Evolution discs so I have to idea what the plastic is like. Are they hard or soft?

I picked up an S Sabre the other day after reading some of the rave reviews here and just absolutely loved it! I have to focus to keep from turning it over (might need to go with an E?) but when I threw it with hyzer it flattened out and stayed straight. I need to try more of Gateway's stuff pretty soon I think.

All the E Wizards I have seen have been soft, which btw I hate!!! I have heard rumors though of stiff ones, just haven't seem them personally.

Most of the time in only takes flexing our high speed drivers back and forth in your hand a few times to reduce the overstability. The Evolution Plastic will take more flexing than the H and S. A few tomahawks and rollers after a bit of flexing is a good place to start.
The object would be to get them slightly out of shape without making too many gauges or a crease any where.
Speed demons and Spirits are meant to be overstable and yes they are specialty disc's for most player.
Height is a big factor with these 2 discs as well as the Illusion. They have so much lift and should be thrown for shots 12 feet high and under for best results. I've throw Spirits well over 400 less than 8 feet off the ground which is why this disc is so special.
As far as shaving the bead down it doesnt take too much.
All you would need to do is take off about 20 thousandths.
This is about 1 or 2 complete circles over some smooth concrete with light pressure. I would try the flex method before this though.

I guess your experiment goes to show you the fine line between over and understable.

PS,
Take that same spirit and compare with your other big drivers into the wind and/or up hill if you get a chance.

Diron,
I'm not sure if we have any firm Glow Wizards left, but I know we just ran a few hundred glow elements that are fairly firm.
We will get to the "GLOW" Wizards in a few weeks, hopefully by Halloween.

Count me in on the glow wizard bandwagon when they are run in firm.

My question to everyone would be, Would you rather have discs that flew exactly how you want it right out of the box and then gets too flippy after a few hits or would you rather have one that flies exactly how you want it after a few hits and stays that way from then on.




I totally agree. I would much rather have a disc that will break in to the way I like it. The truth is, I don't like most Gateway discs when they are new, but when they are broken in, they are the best ever! I think that's why most people don't give Gateway a fair chance. They don't realize that the disc will break into what they want.

I have a Demon that is 2 years old, has six aces, has no dings or knicks anywhere! Now when this disc was new, it would just dive left and drop after 100'. Now it flies easilly to 350' in any direction. I have blazes and SD's that are the same way! Dave has the right idea going here.



Totally...People always look the otherway, even though if they threw a broken in one, they would wet themselves!

I picked up an S Sabre the other day after reading some of the rave reviews here and just absolutely loved it! I have to focus to keep from turning it over (might need to go with an E?) but when I threw it with hyzer it flattened out and stayed straight. I need to try more of Gateway's stuff pretty soon I think.



Yes, they are SO perfect for hyzer flips!!!

I like my discs new out of the box and into the bag.Yeah it can suck when the discs lifespan is over but lets be realistic about it.In my case i throw Champion plastic and Quantum plastic as drivers with 1 DX disc.A Beast that i throw on mainly open holes.my mids are QMS' and a DX Roc occasionally that Ive had since I started.4 years ago.I like to throw a more understable type of driver and still want to throw SE TLs in the softer plastic. A new Orc may be overstable new so ill just snap it harder or throw with a little anny.A better argument would be that its easier to replace a spirit and take the three hours beating it in or sanding edges or whatever than it is to get a new clear plastic 1st run Orc.The only problem I have with Innova is a lack of the discs I prefer to throw,but so be it,Ive got plenty of back-ups for now and the way the technology keeps advancing all these discs may be somewhat obsolete.

I hope you do decide to make the trip up here.Ill back what I say and would like to see what you can do with those discs.I almost expect to be impressed though so keep that in mind.

The best way to break in a disc is to throw high tomohawks/thumbers with it. The ground will not damage the plastic, but the disc will break in nicely. It shouldn't take too much, but it's totally worth it.

Oh yeah, and everyone who throws my broken in Gateway discs queef in relief!

Dave:

Quick question for you...I had read or heard somewhere that you guys were no longer producing the G6i...is this true? I love that disc because it only takes a few tree wacks and that thing is super straight and super sweet.

Next question...are you guys still thinking about coming out with the Scream? I remember back about 9 months ago...that was a tenative name for another driver for you guys.

Oh yeah...a little tip for everybody out there...when you get a new Speed Demon, Illusion or Spirit in the H, E or H/E blend plastic...do yourself a favor and go pick up some emery clothe from lowe's or home depot. Take the emery cloth and run it around the bottom wing of the disc...and specifically where the inside of the rim turns into a point and then turns into the wing. It helps a ton to get them "slightly broken in". I use emery clothe to take out little knicks in the wing or on the outer edge of the rim too.

fairy dust is the most effective way to break in gateway plastic

Quick question for you...I had read or heard somewhere that you guys were no longer producing the G6i...is this true? I love that disc because it only takes a few tree wacks and that thing is super straight and super sweet.




The G6i was discontinued a while ago. The Element has just been approved and will probably be main stream by next week. The Element flys similar to the Buzz, so there's your G6i right there!

We may decide to run another batch of G6i's, hopefully getting them a bit softer.
The basic gist of a G6i in comparison to a regular demon is
we use an additive that makes them shrink more and dome up continously from the nose instead of in and then up. They are also not held in the mold as long and sometimes dropped in water immediately after coming out of the mold, to accelerate the cooling, causing more dome and less concave on the wing.
It's a lot of extra attention to get a straight flyer, and the Element or NEW element X( next version of element with broader nose and less abrupt transition to flight plate) should do just about the same thing.
Does Element X sound like a good name for a more overstable version?

Sometime in the near future we have plans for a new top for the Speed demon, Spirit and Illusion. And the names will be Scream and Odsyssey and possibly Blast.

Of course we also want a beadless wizard before too long as well.

Does Element X sound like a good name for a more overstable version?




Make it a totally different name, for one it is confusing for new players and second it sounds like an Innova thing, Aviar-x, TeeBird-L...It just gets confusing, if you aren't a disc nerd like most of us on this board, hahaha.
I personally like names like the Illusion, Roc, Shark, TeeBird, Wizard..over G6i, XL, XS, QJLS, etc..
Cheers,
Matt

In the past couple of months I have experimented with a couple gateway discs.

Demon: Really overstable. Even now that it is beat in it is still way overstable. For a while I was using it to sidearm but at this point I would only put it in the bag on a really windy day. You must have to really beat it in to be similar to a roc. I prefer my rocs which start out slightly overstable and beat in quickly to a sweet point. Pretty sweet wind midrange though.

E Spirit: Really Really overstable. Similar to my champion firebird. The only use for me is as a hard right turning sidearm disc. It is in my bag some of the time, but I'm not sure whether it or the firebird will win out. I can't imagine how overstable a speed demon is. The first time I threw it I put it on a very slight hyzer line with a ton of power and it never even thought about flipping up and flying straight.

H Illusion: Really overstable. The only way I get decent distance is to throw it with annie. It has potential I think once it gets broken in but I don't know if I will get it to that point since the shallow rim doesn't feel really comfortable to me. Same reason I can't backhand the Z-flick.

S Sabre: Stable. Pretty good straight driver but since I started condensing my high number of molds bag down to just Orcs, Beasts, Valks, Rocs it has lost its place in favor of simplicity. I think I actually traded it to a young guy that had pulled one of my buddies favorite discs out of a lake and wanted something in return and it was the only spare disc on me.

Soft S Wizard: I only have one and use it for putting practice in the backyard occasionally but the mold is just different enough that I don't really use it (putt with SS Omegas). It's not really that soft, I would hate to see how hard a hard wizard is since the soft wizard is harder than my omegas and aviars. Probably close to the same stiffness as my X Challengers. I can see how people who like hard putters would like it. Good putter.

For reference I sidearm 330' and backhand 380'. I love trying new discs and there is nothing wrong with the gateway discs, just don't fit my throwing style I guess. I was a little disappointed with the Illusion being more overstable than I expected. I was pretty excited about the demon at first but chose the rout of sticking with one mold in different stages of wear instead.

Does Element X sound like a good name for a more overstable version?




So would the abbreviation for the S plastic version of the Element X be the SEX? ;)

Dave>> I like the sound of the Element X and I like the name too... but thats just me. Any time frame on this disc? I'm not rushing seeing as how the Element was just approved, but I'm curious. As for the G6i issue, I loved that disc and was rather upset when it was discontinued, hopefully between the Element and the Element X though I will fill that gap. If you did run the 6i again why would you make it softer? I persoanlly loved the stiffness of that disc.

And when are you going to come out with a less overstable driver thats fast? The sabre doesn't cut it for me and the SD/Spirit/Illusion are just to massive for me.

The best way to break in a disc is to throw high tomohawks/thumbers with it. The ground will not damage the plastic, but the disc will break in nicely. It shouldn't take too much, but it's totally worth it.




Thats usually how I break in Spirits and Illusions. Other than that, I throw pretty much brand new plastic.

I like the idea of having a completely different name. Element X sounds like an Innova or Discraft disc.

I like the idea of having a completely different name. Element X sounds like an Innova or Discraft disc.



One could say that noble gasses are "overstable" versions of elements. You could just pick one of the noble gasses and name it that.

Dave, I think you should go with a different name or go back to the Earth, Fire, Wind, Water idea. Would be confusing to have a plain element and then an element X and then what if you do change the top? I think you could just go with Earth Element, Water Element, Fire Element and Wind Element and anyone who gets an element predating the naming would just have to know which one it is.

First off, I love Gateway Discs! I just wish I could buy them in SoCal. They are not sold ANYWHERE here! Maybe I could become a reseller out of my trunk :cool:

Ok, back to the point. I don't think the "Element X" is a good name. It follows too closely the Innova patterns. I would like to see the base name remain the same, but not with the X. Perhaps you could consider a numbering scale to go with your disc molds. Element .3 for the more overstable. Element .1 for the less. Same with the SD and the Spirit. Etc. I know you have multiple variations of the same mold in terms of stability for most of your discs. I would love to see a more standarized way of naming, rather than just random draw.

This is something I have thought about for a long time. I hate seeing new discs come out with totally random names with no scheme. The Flash, then the Flick, and before that the Crush, and Talon, and blah blah blah. Where is the uniformity. I would love to see a company name their midranges with a similar scheme, and their Super Fast Long Range Drivers with schemes as well. And then inside of this, sub-schemes for variations in stability. If you name one super long driver with the name of a bird, then name the rest of them birds, consistency shows professionalism.

I know that you have a lot of names that are similar and I am not bagging on Gateway by any means, I just think that with the right procedures, Gateway could set a standard of excellence that the other companies have already lost a chance at. Gateway is a young company and nothing is too set in stone. And with the right marketing, combined with your innovative disc design approach, some good things could happen.

I would love to re-write your adds, remove the typoes and contradictions, all for a couple free discs to tryout.

That is the biggest reason I don't throw Gateway too much, in SoCal there are no Gateway products to try out. And I don't feel comfortable purchasing a disc without at least feeling the mold in my hand first.

In summary, you are doing a great job and I would love to jump on board with Gateway and throw some more of your plastic.

This is something I have thought about for a long time. I hate seeing new discs come out with totally random names with no scheme. The Flash, then the Flick, and before that the Crush, and Talon, and blah blah blah. Where is the uniformity. I would love to see a company name their midranges with a similar scheme, and their Super Fast Long Range Drivers with schemes as well. And then inside of this, sub-schemes for variations in stability.



Doesn't Lightning do that?

Yes, they do, and I have a lot of respect for them in that area. But I feel their products are severely lacking in quality and ability.

I like the idea of having a completely different name. Element X sounds like an Innova or Discraft disc.



One could say that noble gasses are "overstable" versions of elements. You could just pick one of the noble gasses and name it that.




Um...you don't know much about Chemistry do you?

The Noble Gases are the most stable elements because they have a complete out valence electron shell.

AND MORE STABLE MEANS STRAIGHTER!

AND MORE STABLE MEANS STRAIGHTER!


This seems to be the most confusing term in DG. Technically if a disc is Stable than it is straight and REALLY stable should mean REALLY straight, but the standard way that it is used tends to be that when people talk about REALLY stable they mean more overstable. Its disappointing that we can't use consistent language, but unless we can find a concensus one way or another we will have to deal with it.

I like the Element X idea. Besides, Gateway already has the Sabre X. Might as well keep it the same.

What I don't understand is why Gateway got rid of the whole number thing. I thought it was a great idea. For all of you who can't remember numbers or simple leter combos, WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU? What is so hard about remembering G1i, G3i, G5i, G9i? It makes a whole lot more sense! I mean, at least you can tell a little bit about how it is going to fly. Is a Teebird faster than a Firebird? What about a birdie? Is it faster than a firebird? You really can't tell from those names. There is a reason Tiger Woods doesn't call his 3 iron "the Crush" or his 7 iron "the Flash". It just makes no sense. I like the scale.

What we really need is a way to identify the disc for the beginners. All of us real disc golfers already know what the discs do and what works for us. What would be really cool would be to develope a real world, non biassed, scale for judging discs, and have it stamped on all discs. It could even be some kind of PDGA requirement.

I like the idea of having a completely different name. Element X sounds like an Innova or Discraft disc.



One could say that noble gasses are "overstable" versions of elements. You could just pick one of the noble gasses and name it that.




Um...you don't know much about Chemistry do you?

The Noble Gases are the most stable elements because they have a complete out valence electron shell.

AND MORE STABLE MEANS STRAIGHTER!



Two suggestions:

1) Decaf
2) More fiber

;)

My point was that you could say that those particular elements are "overly stable" because they usually won't combine with other elements. Yes, they are the "most stable" elements, but the idea is to have a creative play on words. I guess someone who's name is a direct rip-off of an internet cartoon rather than a unique name wouldn't know as much about creativity, though. :p

AND MORE STABLE MEANS STRAIGHTER!



This statement allows way too many variables. I know people who throw Leopards and they go straight as an arrow for that person. However, for me, my Tsunami is my straightest flying disc. So I guess that a Leopard and a Tsunami are both equally stable? No, that is nonsense. Different styles bring about different results. I like Discraft's stability rating. A Z-Xtreme will hook harder left than any other Dcraft disc for anyone (rhbh).

It trancends style, strength, and speed.

Ya still don't get it.

Most stable means the most straight

Over stable means it will fall off to the left or right(depending on how you throw).

Second of all: it is the internet...creativity on the net is non-existant.

I feel we're drifting...

I like the Element X idea. Besides, Gateway already has the Sabre X. Might as well keep it the same.

What I don't understand is why Gateway got rid of the whole number thing. I thought it was a great idea. For all of you who can't remember numbers or simple leter combos, WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU? What is so hard about remembering G1i, G3i, G5i, G9i? It makes a whole lot more sense! I mean, at least you can tell a little bit about how it is going to fly. Is a Teebird faster than a Firebird? What about a birdie? Is it faster than a firebird? You really can't tell from those names. There is a reason Tiger Woods doesn't call his 3 iron "the Crush" or his 7 iron "the Flash". It just makes no sense. I like the scale.

What we really need is a way to identify the disc for the beginners. All of us real disc golfers already know what the discs do and what works for us. What would be really cool would be to develope a real world, non biassed, scale for judging discs, and have it stamped on all discs. It could even be some kind of PDGA requirement.



I liked the old naming too! G5 was easy off the toungue! But the names aren't bad...I think they are overall pretty bad [*****]!

As far as the Sabre X, thats just b/c there was a variation in cooling/shrinking etc. Its not a different mold. SO...I like a different name...it could still be a play on the name "Element", just not Element X...to confusing!

Ya still don't get it.

Most stable means the most straight

Over stable means it will fall off to the left or right(depending on how you throw).




I'm not arguing that. I'm saying that if you call a noble gas an "overly-stable" element then it would make sense to name an overstable version of the Element after a noble gas. You're the one calling noble gasses "more stable" versions of elements. We're talking about naming a disc, not the technical definition of a noble gas. Sure it's a bit of a stretch, but no more than calling an Element-X an overstable version of an Element. I like the idea of throwing an Argon or a Xenon. I think it sounds cool.

here's what i sent to the website and board monitor contact emails:

Not sure why conrad is ignoring PM's , but there needs to be an apology to hawk for the scurrilous way in which his avatar was deleted without so much as the courtesy of asking him to remove it. It's not like it was even offensive, in fact it was as tame as the article in DGWN featuring playboy bunnies. Being there is no clear policy on avatars, it is patently unfair to remove them without first creating guidelines as to what is allowed and what is not. At the very least a warning or Pm asking him to remove it would have been a better way to handle this. I am a board monitor for another site and a volunteer for the PDGA also, yet this does not make me, or any of us, from making mistakes. the best way to handle a mistake is to apologize and correct the situation so that there is a clear process to follow in the future to avoid such mistakes. Avoiding the issue will NOT make it go away, and the board members will not continue to be ignored. If you like we will go as far as calling for a vote for the board monitor and IT positions, so as to have some accountablility for the actions of the people running the message board.

Rich Myers
PDGA#19614
Patapsco Picnic and Rockburn Challenge TD

I kind of like the X. It to me just says it's the same disc, with a different cooling method that makes the disc a little more overstable. I would love to get my hands on one of thoes Sabre X. I don't see them on the site...where might I find them?

I kind of like the X. It to me just says it's the same disc, with a different cooling method that makes the disc a little more overstable. I would love to get my hands on one of thoes Sabre X. I don't see them on the site...where might I find them?



Call the shop: (314) 429-DISC

I have a 10x KC Teebird, and I am trying to replace it with a S Sabre (I belive that is the low end plastic), but it is just too understable for me. Would going with a different plastic help. Or would this Sabre X do the trick?

Chris

Is it broke? If not why replace it? That said, you might want to try a sabre in the E plastic, its a bit more stable.

Is it broke? If not why replace it? That said, you might want to try a sabre in the E plastic, its a bit more stable.



Not broke, but starting to get there. And I know that I don't want to pay the 30.00-40.00 ebay premium to replace it.

Chris

Got another question...does the firm wizard turn over as much as the s soft wizard? I want to use one for hyzers under 150 feet, but I can't get it to keep left.

Chris

I want to try out some gateway discs, what are the more stable discs in your lineup?

I want to try out some gateway discs, what are the more stable discs in your lineup?



If by stable you mean straight out of the box that would be the Illusion, Sabre, Element and Wizard.
If you mean overstable that would be Speed Demon, Spirit, Blaze, Demon.
They've basically got one of each kind for every distance (Spirit's less overstable than the SD but just as fast, the same goes for the Blaze/Demon).

You could try an Evolution Wizard or an H, They are more "overstable" on deceleration than any "S", especially 150 and in.
The Element in E is also a good Hyzer disc for shorter approaches, but I would throw Wizards in EVERY situation you can when it comes to laying up, unless you have a really low ceiling and need a long glide.

Dave, does the Element go to 180gr? How stiff is the plastic? Is it closer to a medium Wizard or firm?

I have a 10x KC Teebird, and I am trying to replace it with a S Sabre (I belive that is the low end plastic), but it is just too understable for me. Would going with a different plastic help. Or would this Sabre X do the trick?

Chris



A Sabre X might be a good replacement. Gateway does not make any discs similar to the Teebird, in my opinion. I think the closest non-innova disc to the Teebird would be the Discraft Talon. But If you want a teebird, get a teebird. They are pretty unique.

I want to try out some gateway discs, what are the more stable discs in your lineup?



I know you love sharks, and you should definately get some ELEMENTs. The S is most Roc like, the H is the most overstable, and the E is the straightest.

If you're looking for a stable driver, get a Sabre. I would recommend S or E plastic.

If you're looking for something overstable, you'll be good with almost any other driver. The Illusions get really straight and really long after about a week, but they aren't straight out of the box.

Dave, does the Element go to 180gr? How stiff is the plastic? Is it closer to a medium Wizard or firm?



The Element is made up to about 184g. The S plastic is firm, about the same as a med wizard. The H plastic is pretty soft, expecially the flight plate. The E is slightly more flexible than S and takes hits like they didn't happen!

They are all really grippy and durrable. The H plastic is the most overstalbe (Super ROC), the S is most ROC like, and the E is the straightest(Straighter Buzzz).

Got another question...does the firm wizard turn over as much as the s soft wizard? I want to use one for hyzers under 150 feet, but I can't get it to keep left.

Chris



All the S wizards fly basically the same. 150' hysers should be NO problem, because I can throw 250' hysers with my S Wizards no problem. It sounds like you just need to work on your technique. It took me a while to learn how to throw my wizards this far, but it was worth it. The best way to learn is to play with wizards only. Leave all your other discs at home and play a round. Your whole game will improve.

You could try an Evolution Wizard or an H, They are more "overstable" on deceleration than any "S", especially 150 and in.
The Element in E is also a good Hyzer disc for shorter approaches, but I would throw Wizards in EVERY situation you can when it comes to laying up, unless you have a really low ceiling and need a long glide.



I second the "E" and "H" Wizards. I approach with an "H" Wizard, and throw "E" Wizards off the tee.

I have a 10x KC Teebird, and I am trying to replace it with a S Sabre (I belive that is the low end plastic), but it is just too understable for me. Would going with a different plastic help. Or would this Sabre X do the trick?

Chris



A Sabre X might be a good replacement. Gateway does not make any discs similar to the Teebird, in my opinion. I think the closest non-innova disc to the Teebird would be the Discraft Talon. But If you want a teebird, get a teebird. They are pretty unique.



I throw slightly broken in "S" Blaze almost everywhere I used to throw TeeBirds. I just love the Blaze! And if you really get on them, you can get them to go REALLY far!

Dave, does the Element go to 180gr? How stiff is the plastic? Is it closer to a medium Wizard or firm?



The Element is made up to about 184g. The S plastic is firm, about the same as a med wizard. The H plastic is pretty soft, expecially the flight plate. The E is slightly more flexible than S and takes hits like they didn't happen!

They are all really grippy and durrable. The H plastic is the most overstalbe (Super ROC), the S is most ROC like, and the E is the straightest(Straighter Buzzz).



Cool, I think I will give the S a try. I would love to have a cheap alternative to my San Marino. I get scared when I throw it around water.

Kid roc,
I played a round with Fred Salaz today at Idlewild in Cincy.
He threw the latest run of Ce element 1 time ( clear Evolution) /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif and turned to me and said "Wow that flies just like a san Marino"
The S is more like a broken in San marino and the latest run of E elements are a little more beefy than the 1st!
We have a new Element or ( element X coming out witghin a week or so that I think willl fit your game better.
I WOULD GO AS FAR AS SAYING SLIGHTLY OVERSTABLE AT LOW SPEEDS But not overstable by any means just STABLE

hmm....interesting. Well, I would like to try a S that is like a broken in San Marino as well as a really straight one. Actually I am down to throw anything in S plastic. For some reason, I have release problems with putters and mids in premium plastic. My favorite Gateway plastic is medium S.

Yeah S is best! I can't believe how awesome it is every time I throw it! It puts a smile on my face every time.

Wow I have to hand it to you Dave. I feel completely, 100 percent comfortable with my bag. This is the first time I've ever felt satisfied with my bag. The Element and Illusion filled the holes. My bag is done! I don't know if I'll ever change! Nothing but Wizards, Elements, Illusions, Speed Demons from here on out!!

My bag is done!



I feel the same way about being content with my bag - but I know I will change it eventually :)

I'm going to hold you to that one buddy :D

I'm going to hold you to that one buddy :D



Ok ok so I'm sure the drivers will change, but the Elements and Wizards will be there forever!!

careful now, nothing lasts forever :P

So I have 2 S Elements... Next on the list to track down H Element, E Element (must have ce :D) and the Element X

Time to start selling some plastic :D

I'm going to hold you to that one buddy :D



Ok ok so I'm sure the drivers will change, but the Elements and Wizards will be there forever!!



I think a lot of people will be holding you to this Graham. You change your mind more than my wife and I find it hard to believe that you have made up your mind, but I do like the choices.

Well it's just that I was searching for the perfect combination, and now I've found it! What else is there?

Dave,
When will Elements be available on the site?

hey discgrahm---what do you use for a really long straight or turning shot?

I remember reading that I could get a gateway misprint package(5 for $30), but forgot what thread it was. Can I get this from the site or should I call?

You can call or order on the site.
Feel free to specify weights or flexibilities.

hey discgrahm---what do you use for a really long straight or turning shot?



Right now, I'm breaking in some Illusions. They are turning out to be very impressive. For super controll drives around 360', I'll throw a Sabre or Blaze, S or E depending on my mood. I just got an E Sabre and it's very nice for straight drives! For a right turn, I'll throw my beat S Blaze, up to about 400'. I'm saving an Illusion for hysers, and I have a Speed Demon for some real hysers!

I remember reading that I could get a gateway misprint package(5 for $30), but forgot what thread it was. Can I get this from the site or should I call?



Gateway offers a 5 Wizard misprint pack for $30 on their web site. If you want something else, call the shop.

www.gdstour.com (http://www.gdstour.com)

Can we specify if they are firm wizards or what?

Kid roc,
I played a round with Fred Salaz today at Idlewild in Cincy.
He threw the latest run of Ce element 1 time ( clear Evolution) /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif and turned to me and said "Wow that flies just like a san Marino"
The S is more like a broken in San marino and the latest run of E elements are a little more beefy than the 1st!
We have a new Element or ( element X coming out witghin a week or so that I think willl fit your game better.
I WOULD GO AS FAR AS SAYING SLIGHTLY OVERSTABLE AT LOW SPEEDS But not overstable by any means just STABLE



Dave:
How many of these CE Elements have you run, and can we expect the Element X in the same plastic? If so, I'll give Justin a shout when he gets back! Sounds like my midrange game is finally gonna come together!!!

Oh yeah, when are you running the Element X?

Also, hows Nikko doing? Tell him hi for me.

Can we specify if they are firm wizards or what?



You can specify whatever you want if you call. Just do it!

You can call or order on the site.
Feel free to specify weights or flexibilities.



gateway, i dont see how you can stay in business when you dont answer the phone......my credit cards' burning a hole in my pocket wanting to be used, innova and discraft answer the phone, what about you guys????

Hey they have been moving, so give them some slack. They will make it worth your while.

Sorry for the delays, we are moving this week and the office manager is at usdgc. We will start shipping again on tuesday.
If you want to email your order I will make sure you get hooked up with an extra disc or 2 for the delay!
If you have any ? you can send them by direct email to me. [email protected]

David Mac.

By the way, I threw my E Element about 400' in a tail wind today. Tail winds are rare here, so I thought I would test it out. It flies very straight in tail winds, and has a sharp little fade at the end. AND LONG! I put it up about 30' with some anhyser angle, and it flew a beautiful long anhyser! I outdrove guys using Leopards and valks with my Element!

Element's are the best midranges ever. Goodbye, ROC.

Element's are the best midranges ever. Goodbye, ROC.



If Graham is that decisive on a disc... it has to be good. :cool:

I threw the Element today. Here's my $.02:
It's too low speed overstable and too high speed understable to throw with a lot of reliability. If thrown perfectly, it's a disc you could fall in love with. But for those of us who do not throw perfectly all the time, it merely duplicates the functions of a dozen other discs that are not as twitchy or finicky.

This is not to say that G-Way is not on the right track with this disc. I think that the basic design can be tweaked as Dave M mentioned, and that they can make this disc a wonderful addition to everyone's bag. But for me, it's not there yet.
YMMV

someone was telling me the same thing just yesterday

I gave mine away. But I also got a Wizard in the players pack that is awesome. Aside from the discs, I think that Gateway is also on the right track with the sponsorship that they have provided to fledgeling events this year. Thumbs up.

I threw the Element today. Here's my $.02:
It's too low speed overstable and too high speed understable to throw with a lot of reliability. If thrown perfectly, it's a disc you could fall in love with. But for those of us who do not throw perfectly all the time, it merely duplicates the functions of a dozen other discs that are not as twitchy or finicky.




What kind of Element did you throw, and what weight? I could see a flight like that come out of a H Element, like the 167 H I have. I don't have a perfect throw, but I like to think I have a smooth snap, and the Element is the best midrange disc I've ever thrown. It beat the ROC out of my bag for good. The Element has less fade than a ROC and similar stability. The H's have more fade, and the E's have less, while the S's are just like broken in ROC's.

I threw a 176g S Element. Like I said, I found it to have too much high speed understability and too much low speed overstablity for it to be really consistent. Glad it works for you.

~BUMP~

I noticed a change in Gateway plastic and wanted to know if this is permanent. I was at Disc N Dat the other day and they had "H" Illusions that were yellow and very soft. I have not thrown the "H" plastic much because of the dome but I like the stiffness. My favorite plastic has to be stiff "E" plastic because it still has a tacky surface. All of the "E" plastic I have ever had has been either orange or green for some reason, do other colors have a different feel to them.

H plastic is generally pretty soft, and Yellow is the most understable H color. Yellow H discs tend to have the biggest domes, so they also tend to be the most soft, especially the flight plate.

H is really color sensative. It's not a bad thing because you can get exactly what you want just by choosing the right color. E is not so sensative. With S, it doesn't really matter.

I've thrown dyed "H" Illusions that had stiffer flight plates than most yellow ones. Also, my very first "H" Illusions were sent at the same time. One had a rather thick plate (For "H") and the other was just the usuall. They were both yellow and flew the exact same. Weird huh?

There was a run of Yellow H that were really flexible.
They were pretty flat and overstable, so we changed the formula so they would dome up some and fly straighter.
It worked great and the firm H illusions are probably our best long distance driver for most players.
We hope to run some again soon as they went quick.

There was a run of Yellow H that were really flexible.
They were pretty flat and overstable, so we changed the formula so they would dome up some and fly straighter.
It worked great and the firm H illusions are probably our best long distance driver for most players.
We hope to run some again soon as they went quick.



Yeah, the one that I have in my bag flies more like a Spirit. I'd be interested in throwing one of the tamer yellow ones. I remember in Columbia, George was getting all kinds of huge with one of them.

Back about a year or so ago, I was down for the Ozark Mountain spring tournament and while I was there I bought a black "s" demon. Now it was a completely different type of s-plastic. It was really soft and grippy but still had a fairly stiff flight plate. And I have seen a few others like it, but haven't been able to find another one to buy. Just wondering if you guys still run that funky soft black "s" at all.

Back about a year or so ago, I was down for the Ozark Mountain spring tournament and while I was there I bought a black "s" demon. Now it was a completely different type of s-plastic. It was really soft and grippy but still had a fairly stiff flight plate. And I have seen a few others like it, but haven't been able to find another one to buy. Just wondering if you guys still run that funky soft black "s" at all.



I know the stuff you are refering to, I had a Demon in that palstic but lost it. (Hole 13Rolling Hills in Lamoni).

I have one like that but it's Red 169 and has 6 aces on it.

Replaced by the Element.

:cool:

I have one like that but it's Red 169 and has 6 aces on it.

Replaced by the Element.

:cool:



Yeah, my broken in Demon (No aces, but like 12 basket/chains) hasn't been taken out yet, but will be soon! Can't wait to throw the other plastic! Really diggin' the feel of the "H"/"E"!!

Joe,
We kept back about 60 or so of the Black S demons.
alomost all are max weight.

Joe,
We kept back about 60 or so of the Black S demons.
alomost all are max weight.



What other discs have you run in that plastic?

Any chance we might see a run of elements in that plastic??????? :)

Chris...you coming to Des Moines on Sunday for the Open??? If you do, make sure you bring all your boys from Neb. (Except Tony D. ;))

Sounds like I may have to try out the E-Element. So far I've only been really impressed with the latest few drivers. I tend to favor low-profile discs, so the dome on the sabre, for example, made it feel odd to me. But I liked the Illusion for a while and I still do trick shots with my speed demon and spirit the likes of which leave my non-Gateway-throwing comrades asking "What the heck was that?"

I'm never likely to be a complete Gateway convert unless I get really good and get them interested in sponsoring me (LONG way off, I'm not even advanced yet) because I get a kick out of carrying a lot of different brands and unusual discs. I don't have a super puppy and I don't carry any Wham-o. Other than that I believe I have at least one from every company that has a PDGA approved disc.

But the Element sounds like it might make it into my bag if the plastic will stand the test of Kentwood. I try not to use my Spirit and Speed Demon there too much...they don't get beat out of shape much, but the Gravel Graveyard can leave some painful nicks on the edges. I'd assume from the way the Element is described that it will have a blunter leading edge and therefore be less susceptible to such, so I won't need to be as careful with it.

You know, the descriptions of how it flies remind me somewhat of some of the early reviews of the Z-Storm. Can anyone provide a direct comparison?

Having thrown both, I would say that they are similar in shape and profile and not flight. The Z-Storm is very straight, whereas the Element (at least in S plastic) cannot handle the torque a Z Storm can. YMMV

Chris...you coming to Des Moines on Sunday for the Open??? If you do, make sure you bring all your boys from Neb. (Except Tony D. ;))



I'm coming, along with some buddies that play Int.
I'm probably one of the few though, b/c we have a local doubles tourny this weekend as well, but I work Saturday, SO...Des Moines Open here I come!!

The "S" Element only requires about 70% strength to get it to go on a frozen rope! Nice and slow, and sits down pretty much right on the line. ALso, you can put a little height on it w/o worrying about killer hyzer at the end. If you really wanna rip one with the "S", a little hyzer and height might be required, but forget that...just throw it softer...the results are amazing!

The "H"/"E" Element I threw was IMHO the best flight out of the 3. With this one, you can throw it more like a normal midrange, and get the same flight described for "S". Won't quite come out all the way off an Anhyzer, but the "S" is more suited for turnovers anyways.

The "CE" (Clear Evolution) Element is pretty nice as well. This one resists turn at high speed the same as the "H"/"E" does, but sits down with less fade ala "S" Element. Plus, this plastic is VERY durable, and feels pretty good.

All 3 can be thrown with height w/o worry of nasty finishes. "H"/"E" is best suited for headwinds, and the "S" can get crazy distance with a tailwind. I like the "H"/"E" best overall, but am very impressed at how great the "S" flies with so little effort. By not having to reach back as far, you don't have to turn away from you target as much and you are thus more accurate. I love the Element, and with the addition of the ElementX, there will be no midrange shot I can't handle.
Need a longer, more hyzerish shot than your Element can handle...throw a Blaze! I can see it now...The old 1,2,3 combo... The Blaze, Element, and Element X!

Like David mentioned, the ElementX in "S" will be KC Rocish to start, but break in straight, and in "CE" it will be KCish and stay that way FOREVER!

(Except Tony D. )



LMAO!!! So true...so very true...

I would say it is similiar in flight to a Z-storm/ce-cobra, especially in the Evolution. The "S" Elements when throw flat will turn over and track to the right very similiar to a san marino roc for shots between 200-300'. When thrown slightly nose up and with a little hyzer, (matching speed with revolutions) it is a dead straight flyer and has an awesome glide. It does exactly what we wanted it to do as a slightly understable mid-range.:cool:
The next version of this disc ( ElementX or whatever name we call it) should be more KC roc-like!
For those who like to mussle up on the mid-range shots, get an S BLAZE broken in for a similiar flight!

Need a longer, more hyzerish shot than your Element can handle...throw a Blaze!




For those who like to mussle up on the mid-range shots, get an S BLAZE broken in for a similiar flight!



Word.

What Gateway discs are available in the glow plastic? What is the price for those when ordered direct from Gateway. I am putting together my Christmas list and want to put in an order from Gateway as a large part of that list and just need a little info.

I know you can get glow elements and glow wizards....

Right now we only have the Element and Element-X in the SUPER glow. We had some Wizards but theyre gone.
Superglow Wizards will be the next thing we will run, so there should be some soon.
We played a round tonight Using the superglow and we never had to recharge our discs after charging them for 15 minutes under a flourescent light at ARBY's.
Not having to flash your discs or shine any lights for the whole round is really nice. Your eyes get adjusted and you really start honing in.

Right now the price is $15 each for superglow but we hope to have a special up on our site once we get some wizards made in it.
Probably something like a 3 disc set for $40 with shipping included! If you play glow it will be well worth the extra money over other current glow products.

I have a question;
Do players prefer special stamps for glow discs or are the regular stock stamps cool enough?

use a small hotstamp. i like the gateway stamp on the proto elements. i useally acetone off big uneven looking stamps because they mess with the circular appearance of a disc IMO.

for glow discs I prefer small stamps so there is a larger area uncovered. Makes it easier to see them in tall weeds where I usually end up.

Does the Gateway "superglow" out-glow the Discraft "photon" glow?

All I know is that i hope my Element X's come in so I have a slightly overstable Gateway midrange to use this weekend.
God knows I don't want to go back to a spider.

By the way Dave did you get a hold on any H-illusions or E-spirits? /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

So, how is the ElementX coming? I can't wait to throw it.

So, how is the ElementX coming? I can't wait to throw it.



Still waiting to throw them, but from what I've been told, they hold up really great to hard throws...sorta like a slower, straighter Blaze. Can't wait to throw them!!!

Do players prefer special stamps for glow discs or are the regular stock stamps cool enough?


Dave, I actually like the nonstamped Element X Super Glow I got from you. If all the discs were blank it would be rough, but I like the clean look. So I guess I really like the very minimal stamp like you use on the Element would be my second choice. If I had a blank wizard, element and sabre/and or illusion I am sure I could tell them apart w/o any stamp.

Do players prefer special stamps for glow discs or are the regular stock stamps cool enough?


Dave, I actually like the nonstamped Element X Super Glow I got from you. If all the discs were blank it would be rough, but I like the clean look. So I guess I really like the very minimal stamp like you use on the Element would be my second choice. If I had a blank wizard, element and sabre/and or illusion I am sure I could tell them apart w/o any stamp.



How about if they were bottom stamped ?

Do players prefer special stamps for glow discs or are the regular stock stamps cool enough?


Dave, I actually like the nonstamped Element X Super Glow I got from you. If all the discs were blank it would be rough, but I like the clean look. So I guess I really like the very minimal stamp like you use on the Element would be my second choice. If I had a blank wizard, element and sabre/and or illusion I am sure I could tell them apart w/o any stamp.



How about if they were bottom stamped ?


Or that. :D

Nice job on the element. Seems effortless when i throw it. love the rigidity of my glow one. lets have an element x an see what you got. I would also like a demon in Premium plastic.

ce

Nice job on the element. Seems effortless when i throw it... I would also like a demon in Premium plastic.




Here here. I have a blended (s/h) demon that is great, but asphalt still takes its toll.

Hello, I had been reading your posts about elements.. I wonder where I can buy those elements and element X in Dallas/Ft worth, Texas area?? Thanks

Hope you saw my other post Joey...call or email the shop to find out:

[email protected]
[email protected]
(314) 487-5204
(314) 487-5266 FAX

See the Thead About the ElementX!!! (http://www.pdga.com/msgboard/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=274742&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1)

Hi Dave,

Do you have plans to make a beadless Wizard?

Thanks!

Hi Dave,

Do you have plans to make a beadless Wizard?

Thanks!


Change the Wizard??? Blasphemy!!!! :eek: :eek:

Ive seen beadless Wizards,I think.

Yes,
We will eventually get around to doing that,
We will probably make a tee bird type disc by summer and maybe a new top for the speed demon, Spirit, illusion!

Chase if youve seen a beadless Wizard it was most likely factored or really really used.

Small bead Wizard? Gateway Teebird??? I may have to be like JD and go all Gateway! :D

I'd really dig a control driver with a little more distance and glide than the Blaze...I've tried Sabres, but I personally can't get them to fly right...plus I like to keep my disc low.

Keep up the great work David!!

Yes you should then the rest of TX. will follow us. /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Dave, you never sent out beadless wizards? Pat had a few Proto Wizards with the Wizard stamp that were black and beadless.Or at least I thought.

Dave, do tourney directors of the GDSTour pick out what discs they want in their player packages or does Gateway dictate it? If you do dictate it, what will be in the player packages this year?

Oooo gateway teebird, nice. Isn't there already a really straight flying Gateway disc? Or is that like a lower speed disc?

Chase, I have one of those black wizards you are talking about. The bead on that one is definately smaller than the rest of my wizards, but it still has a bead. And I love that disc!!! :D:cool:

Rocco,
Depending on whats in stock we do allow TD's to pick what discs they want for the players package.
Who is the TD in your area?
Jacksweather,
The Sabre is very much like a teebird, especially for players that are smooth with big power, today we will be running some evolution Sabres, hopefully getting them, translucent, flat and up to weight.
Yesterday we had one of our best runs of CE ( clear evolution) that have ever had.
We ran about 400 "E" blazes 168-0175 grams in what is really close to the original "Candy" Champion edition!

Hi Dave,

Do you have plans to make a beadless Wizard?

Thanks!


Change the Wizard??? Blasphemy!!!! :eek: :eek:


We wouldnt have to change the current wizard only make another wing that wouldnt have the bead or at leat a lot smaller one.

Thanks for the reply Dave!

I think that a beadless Wizard would be similar to an old beadless Aviar, especially in the firm S plastic. It would be nice to try a beadless Wizard for putting and a big bead Wizard for driving.

Chase, I have one of those black wizards you are talking about. The bead on that one is definately smaller than the rest of my wizards, but it still has a bead. And I love that disc!!! :D:cool:



I thought I had seen some.Or at least a really small beaded one.

Rocco,
Depending on whats in stock we do allow TD's to pick what discs they want for the players package.
Who is the TD in your area?
Jacksweather,
The Sabre is very much like a teebird, especially for players that are smooth with big power, today we will be running some evolution Sabres, hopefully getting them, translucent, flat and up to weight.
Yesterday we had one of our best runs of CE ( clear evolution) that have ever had.
We ran about 400 "E" blazes 168-0175 grams in what is really close to the original "Candy" Champion edition!



Spring Break needs to hurry up...I'm drooling over hearing the things you guys are running!!!

I would definatly like the idea of a flatter "E" Sabre. I still have the candy Sabre that Nikko gave me at Worlds, but its dome didn't agree with me too much. SO...a flatter "CE" Sabre should be the disc I'm looking for!

And a "CE" Blaze???? Man thats awesome!!

Are you guys ever going to try and run "CE" Demons, or does the mold not agree with the plastic?

(I guess where I was going with this one is: Are you guys pretty much getting "CE" working for every mold?)

...maybe a new top for the speed demon, Spirit, illusion!



Dave, does this mean that the molds for the speed demon, spirit, and illusion are going to change?

...maybe a new top for the speed demon, Spirit, illusion!



Dave, does this mean that the molds for the speed demon, spirit, and illusion are going to change?



I'll take a stab at this one...

Disc molds have 3(?) parts and by using 2 existing parts and new part (New Top) you create a 2nd and unique disc.

So no, the existing molds aren't likely to change.

Have any idea when those "CE" Sabres will be avaliable?

Have any idea when those "CE" Sabres will be avaliable?



Ya : ) Those sound nice.

Supposedly they ran them today so my guess would be pretty soon. /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

We ran about 300 CE "CANDY" Sabres today form 165-176 and they feel SWEEEET.
Havent had a chance to throw them yet or the Candy blazes but for those who likey the candy these should makey you happy :)
We will be stamping them tomorrow and they should be ready to ship early next week.

How flat were you able to get them Dave? /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Any chance of a CE Demon? That would definatly make me hafta change my shorts! :o:D

why are you guys refering to these as "ce" and "candy"? seems like you have blatently copied terms innova uses. you would probably do better to try and differentiate instead of mimic as far as company image goes. discs are awesome though

why are you guys refering to these as "ce" and "candy"? seems like you have blatently copied terms innova uses. you would probably do better to try and differentiate instead of mimic as far as company image goes. discs are awesome though



"Candy" is a general term for any translucent/opaque/clear eurethyne-heavy disc such as "E", Elite Z and Champion.

I would agree that Candy is a term for any high quality plastic like he said but calling anything by Gateway CE is just a stupid thing to do. Thats like me calling my Tsunamis CE. Its just not something that you do. First off it sounds stupid and second off its Innovas name for there old plastic.

It is slang for Clear Evolution.

Well it was slang for Champion Edition for Innova. I just think that you could find something more original to call it i guess. Not that it really matters anyway. I know i would love a CE Predator :D

It isn't an offical name. Just slang. Innova didn't use it as slang, they put it on their discs. I don't think Dave is gonna print CE SABRE on a disc. lol

I think we should all start saying CLEAR EVOLUTION so that Mills can untangle his thong. :p

I think we should all start saying CLEAR EVOLUTION so that Mills can untangle his thong.



LOL.

Steven,
I dont think that this is an official term for our products.
It seems "OTHERS have labeled our Clear/Translucent stuff candy Evolution or CE, so it was easier to get the point across.
Since Innova doeasnt really use that plastic and the "TERM" Candy anymore and ours is SO close to the original, it didnt seem like that big of a deal to make the reference.
I personally NEVER liked the term candy, but most players seem to really like to use it, even when describing our discs.
Like I said, most likely we will never officially use the term candy or CE.

I think we should all start saying CLEAR EVOLUTION so that Mills can untangle his thong.



Now that was freakin FUNNY :D:D:D

I almost feel off my chair at work when i saw that.

I dont even think that Innova put CE on there discs. I think it was also just slang for Championship Edition. I dont care if they call it CE i just thought they were trying to say it was a Gateway disc in old CE type plastic. I didnt know that it stood for Clear Evolution. Now i know.

Hey Dave what ever happend to those discs i was supposed to test fly???

This is more of a suggestion, but I think I can put it in question form:

Do you know if there are any plans for you guys to start selling discs at any of the Air Traffic stores in the Twin Cities? The only other store I know of that sells Gateway up here is Gotta Go Gotta Throw and they're only open while I'm at work. A majority of the disc purchases I make are impulse buys (normally x-outs) at Air Traffic while I'm at a mall for some other reason.

ok, I picked up an S Demon last night and only had a chance to throw it a few times but ME LIKEY! Would an E Demon be faster with about the same stability? I'd like to get about 20 more feet out of this disc.

Dave I just talked to my counselors and everything was ok. The strange thing is that she id the only person I have ever met who had a good understanding of the sport. /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

the h illusion is extremely fast, and I also hit a tree pretty hard and the disc looks and flies fine, although some suggest the plastic would not take a good hit, but it does!!!

.
I dont even think that Innova put CE on there discs.



Innova's last run of CE Teebird TL's say CE on them, but they're the only ones I've seen.

Where does it say CE on it??? I dont think i have EVER seen a Championship Edition disc that just said CE

IT says it on the logo on the disc. The last run were not stamped with the traditional CE Stamp on them. They had the Swoosh and the wording was inside the swoosh.

Yes they did make "CE" that says CE on it, and I have some...

What Innova called Last Run of CE Teebirds said "CE Teebird" on it inside of a small swoosh stamp. They were made with the TL mold.

However, they resemble more of the new plastic and came out early 2003 if I remember correctly.

****, beaten to the punch again...

ok, I picked up an S Demon last night and only had a chance to throw it a few times but ME LIKEY! Would an E Demon be faster with about the same stability? I'd like to get about 20 more feet out of this disc.



I don't think he's run them yet, but if/when he does I'd imagine they'd be just as stable if not more, but faster.

Demons are this [*****], and more people would throw them if they tried them. At the GDSTour I'm hosting here in Omaha sometime in March, I'm going to make sure a Demon is part of the players packs, b/c I am confident everyone will fall in love...they are **** impressive and predictable!!

ok, I picked up an S Demon last night and only had a chance to throw it a few times but ME LIKEY! Would an E Demon be faster with about the same stability? I'd like to get about 20 more feet out of this disc.



I don't think he's run them yet, but if/when he does I'd imagine they'd be just as stable if not more, but faster.

Demons are this [*****], and more people would throw them if they tried them. At the GDSTour I'm hosting here in Omaha sometime in March, I'm going to make sure a Demon is part of the players packs, b/c I am confident everyone will fall in love...they are **** impressive and predictable!!



Wow, so a Demon in "CE" plastic? What would thta be like?I wonder if it would be like a Champion Whippet?

The latest runs of our sabres and Blazes in the Evolution plastic are almost FLAT!
I still havent thrown them yet, but the initial response to the look and feel has been GREAT!!



When I buy Sabres in S plastic I go to my local shop and look at all of them to get the flat ones. The S plastic is so consistent that they all look the same except maybe 1 or 2 that will be flatter than the rest. The flatter ones are more stable at speed but still have very little fade at the end. If the rest of the disc's profile is the same except the flat top, these are going to be great.

Got out today to test the E Sabres and Blazes.

I really never throw discs that are soft and flexible in the flight plate, so it took some getting used to.
I grip the discs really tight and I'm not fond of my thumb going into the disc any!
The E Blaze's are very beefy and fly fairly close to the S.
I did notice a little more speed do to the fact they are so flat.
The E Sabres are pretty awesome and also fly pretty close to the flatter S. With the wind at your back or a small crosswind they seem to fly a little farther than the S. My nephew Nikko, who has about a 350 max D was able to do just about whatever he wanted with them and they stayed pretty straight for him even at low trajectories of 6-10 feet.
For me they are not as good as I would like in a headwind, But I would'nt reccomend a sabre into a headwind anyway.
If you like the original CE stuff these should make you happy. I dont think they are as firm as the 1st run RED cloudy T-birds and firebirds but more like the 2nd and 3rd run Valks.

Dave, when you going to restock the Collinsville store and when will they have the new Sabres? Would love to get my hands on a couple and also a new Illusion that has color so I can use it when it snows. Thanks.

Most likely the E will not work in the Demon.
The TPU is too heavy by weight for the mass of the demon.
We have the same problem with the Illusion.
There is a polymer manufacturing company that is "supposed" to be working on an alloy to blend into the TPU to reduce the weight. I hope they come up with something soon, mainly for the Illusion though.
The "S" demons take punishment so well and are hard to get broken in as it is.
I'm not sure why anyone would need an Evolution Demon except it will look cooler!! :cool:

Yeah, I have too many backups as it is...they are too sweet.

Can't wait to throw the new Sabres and Blazes!

Is there a place to find out where Gateway discs are sold locally? I'd really like to try some out of the discs(Midrange mostly), but like to hold them first before buying? Some discs just don't feel right.

I'm in Southern Wisconsin

hey dave, did you guys ever run any elements in teh ce plastic? or the evolution? and what about wizards, have they been run in ce? i thought i had seen somewhere on here before that you had run elements in ce, but now i can't find it. thanks.

Ferrett,
We do have Elements in the Clear Evolution.
WE also have Illusions , sprits, speed demons and Wizards in the E but they are not clear or translucent.

As far as discs in southern Wisconsin, do you know Todd Ebans or Ed shorer?

Dave I do not know either Todd or Ed? I have not gotten a chance to throw with to many other players, Yet. Do they throw Gateway?

They both live in wisconsin and would have plenty of discs for you to see feel and throw.
Todd is the President of the madison disc golf club and should be easy to get a hold of.
Did you know that we have some missed stamped specials on our website for Gateway discs.
You can get like 5 discs for $35 or 10 for $50.
This would be an inexpensive way to get a "feel for the discs".

Thanks David
In the next couple of weeks I'm planning on playing leagues in Madison so maybe I'll run into him. Yeah I was just on your website and think I'll probably do the 5 for $35 deal in the next couple of weeks.

Thanks for the info

If you have a flexibilty , color or weight preference please let us know.
You dont have to get all wizards in the special and can get 5 different discs if you want.
Thanks for the interest and If you have any more questions about the discs dont hesitate to ask.

Dave I have thrown the demon in the past and enjoyed it. Its very consistent. But the plastic is so different from all the other discs in my bag that I just can't get used to it and so I don't carry it anymore. The demon in a plastic that would fit in with the feel of all my other discs would be much more attractive.

I may try to run the evolution in the demon mold, But I wouldnt hold my breath for anything under 175g.
There are a few boxes of Scouts still around which is the demon mold in the old version of the H plastic.
It is less shiney and somewaht matted, but relqaly durable still.
Most of the colors are funky reds and purples, The discs feel and fly awesome but arent that attractive for retail sales!

I may try to run the evolution in the demon mold, But I wouldnt hold my breath for anything under 175g.
There are a few boxes of Scouts still around which is the demon mold in the old version of the H plastic.
It is less shiney and somewaht matted, but relqaly durable still.
Most of the colors are funky reds and purples, The discs feel and fly awesome but arent that attractive for retail sales!



Who needs a light weight Demon anyways!? Keep up the good work David!

Man...could you kiss his ***** anymore Discin??? You should give him a reach around while you're at it.

Man...could you kiss his ***** anymore Discin??? You should give him a reach around while you're at it.



wow what a nice first post. welcome to the message board, on here shittalkers like you are called "morons". :o;)

I do agree that Gateway makes some fine disc's. I think that the wizard is probably the best putter on the market. Other gateway disc's that I like are the Illusion, Element and Demon...but you don't see me on here kissing Dave's ***** on every single post. Or highjacking threads with gateway propaganda.

... Or highjacking threads with gateway propaganda.



Which I HAVE NOT done it a long time. I realized that all that did was **** people off, and it was wrong anyways. Funny how you mention that even though I haven't made a post out of line in easily 2-3 months. Thanks dick.

I do agree that Gateway makes some fine disc's. I think that the wizard is probably the best putter on the market. Other gateway disc's that I like are the Illusion, Element and Demon...but you don't see me on here kissing Dave's ***** on every single post. Or highjacking threads with gateway propaganda.



of course your not on here "kissing dave's *****" you've posted a whole 2 times. get a life. if somebody wants to push Gateway products who cares? especially if they do it on a thread about Gateway Discs, DUHHH!

He said Thanks Dick.

I do agree that Gateway makes some fine disc's. I think that the wizard is probably the best putter on the market. Other gateway disc's that I like are the Illusion, Element and Demon...but you don't see me on here kissing Dave's ***** on every single post. Or highjacking threads with gateway propaganda.



of course your not on here "kissing dave's *****" you've posted a whole 2 times. get a life. if somebody wants to push Gateway products who cares? especially if they do it on a thread about Gateway Discs, DUHHH!



no *****, who really cares if someone promotes a product? I know I don't, if he wants to give a helpful suggestion to someone about a shot or adisc, of course he would only suggest a Gateway disc, thats what he throws and what he knows and what he has knowledge about to base a suggestion off of. Hes also sponsored by them, I mean.... come on. I don't throw any Gateway and don't like most of their discs, but I don't mind hearing about them. We don't accuse everyone else of "hijaking threads with Innova or Discraft propaganda" when some posts about a Beast or Crush. As far as "kissing dave's *****" goes, I don't really see that, and even if he was, wouldn't you if you were sponsored by him? :D Anyways...

Thanks for having my back fellas. As far as kissing [*****]...I'm just really proud to throw Gateway and think David does a fine job.

Why is their always heat on gateway threads.....play nice children....

Thanks CRdiscgolfer,
I would have liked to make that post, but i'm glad you did instead.( It was pretty close to exactly what I would've said, except for the part about "NOT liking most of the discs") :D
Here is a link to some pics of the recent clear and tranlucent stuff.
The pics arent that great and the discs really look and feel awesome!! http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQfgtpZ1QQfrppZ25QQsassZfrisbiefreak ebay (http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQfgtpZ1QQfrppZ25QQsassZfrisbiefreak)

I tried to create a link, but it didnt happen, ANY help?

Seems to work for me.

Works for me as well. I can't wait to throw the new runs. /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Link works for me, Dave. You have any plans of restocking the collinsville store with some of those clear sabres any time soon? Would love to get my hands on a couple.

for sure, i was just tired of hearing people whine about Chris being proud of the company he's sponsored for... especially on a Gateway thread.

anyways... that link does work and i checked it out and may have to try out some of your discs in that new clear and translucent plastic

By the way Dave how do the new "E" spirits fly?

for sure, i was just tired of hearing people whine about Chris being proud of the company he's sponsored for... especially on a Gateway thread.

anyways... that link does work and i checked it out and may have to try out some of your discs in that new clear and translucent plastic



Thanks Chris!!

BEEFY, but will break in with a little flexing!

You ever try bring some discs to ontario. i know i would love to get my hands on some, just i cant buy over the net.

If you are going to the No Foolin' tourney in Ann Arbor in April I will be there with some Gateway discs. That would be as close to Ontario that I will get this season, but I would like to hook you up if you will be there. :D:cool:

Robbie Dunn finished 3rd this weekend at the Buckhorn Open. If I am right he was tied for first until the last hole.

And I am loving the non-proto evolution Element-Xs. I have hit a couple trees hard and there is no sign of warpage at all.

Now only if I could get my 171 S Illusion to behave for me...

ST Thomas disc golfer.
Could you have some one from your club contact us about getting some discs up there.

Good to hear Robbie did so well.
It was a really good weekend for Gateway players as Johhnny McCray won the Brookesville supertour with Shawn and Ben Gurthie coming in tied for 6th and Double G finishing 11th.
Matt Hall won Advanced in Texas and JD Ramirez wound up in 5th at the mace man event!!! :cool:

If you are going to the No Foolin' tourney in Ann Arbor in April I will be there with some Gateway discs. That would be as close to Ontario that I will get this season, but I would like to hook you up if you will be there. :D:cool:



If you already know this I apologize.

There is no merching at Hudson Mills except for A3 selling merch during the tournament. Your merch will be confiscated by the park police. They run a tight ship. Just thought I would give you the heads up.

Robbie Dunn finished 3rd this weekend at the Buckhorn Open. If I am right he was tied for first until the last hole....



I did finish 3rd in Advanced this weekend, but was actually in 4th going in to our last hole (#6 at Buckhorn). There was a 3 way tie going into that hole (Eddie, Jeff & Jay). Eddie took a 3, Jeff a 4, Jay a 7 & I took a 3 to move past Jay into 3rd. It was a fun tournament and I was happy to actually be under par in 3 of the 4 rounds at Buckhorn..... and it sure was nice to NOT be playing in ice & sleet like the previous years.

And I really enjoyed playing my first "big tournament" with my all Gateway bag. On this tight wooded course, I found my Sabre's to be my buddies :)

Good to hear Robbie did so well.
It was a really good weekend for Gateway players as Johhnny McCray won the Brookesville supertour with Shawn and Ben Gurthie coming in tied for 6th and Double G finishing 11th.
Matt Hall won Advanced in Texas and JD Ramirez wound up in 5th at the mace man event!!! :cool:



Isn't that like 3 years in a row that John E. has won that event?

Is there anyway to tell which plastic is which? I found a wizard and was throwing it today and really liked it. It didn't have any stamp on it so I'm just wondering.

I also have thrown a "H" speed demon and was wondering if the wizard was in the same or some other plastic. It felt similar but not knowing the difference between the two lower lines I'm just wondering

My good buddie and roomate is a falconer.....and he must have very accurate scales for weighing his bird......so I thought..I wonder what my discs realy weigh......long story short most of them were right on or within a g......but the blaze ya'll sent me weighs 182,when it says on the back 175.......just thought you might find that interesting......one of the best thumber discs I have thrown in a while.....

My good buddie and roomate is a falconer.....and he must have very accurate scales for weighing his bird......so I thought..I wonder what my discs realy weigh......long story short most of them were right on or within a g......but the blaze ya'll sent me weighs 182,when it says on the back 175.......just thought you might find that interesting......one of the best thumber discs I have thrown in a while.....



I've also noticed that weights can be innacurate across manufacturers and molds. No real rhyme or reason to it as I can tell. I've heard this happens because discs are weighed in groups of 10, and the average weight is what is written on each of them.

I have a 181 gram Aviar. :p

I have a 181 gram Aviar. :p


oh yeah, well i have a 181.5g aviar. :D:cool:

I have a 242 gm Apache

Not sure how that got out of the shop unless it was an older run. Are you sure its not an Element-X?
We have been pretty good about marking the weights accurately, but I havent been the only one running the discs this past year.
We usually dont let discs out of the factory that are more than 2 grams overweight.
I'll have to tighten the ship on that.
BIG MIKE YOUR FIRED :D

MR buddha,
There is usually a big difference and a very noticable one from H to S.
H are shiney and springly while S are ALL matted.
There have been a few runs of the Wizard in an S/H combo though, most are blue or pink.
ALL disc we have ran since the middle oflast year should be marked with and S,H or E and the discs name on the back.
The only discs we will be running in the H from now on are the SPeed demons, Spirits, Illusion, elements and element-X's. The Sabre and Blaze are too domey for most players and the The E wizard should be overstable enough for the driving Wizard.
We may decide to run H in the wizard if there is a demand but once we get the E working in all of the molds, players will only want the clear translucent stuff anyway :eek:

Dave,

What's the ETA on the Teebird-type disc and what is the name?

yes what is the ETA and name??

I'm talking about just giving some away, that's not a crime, is it? :confused:

Madd town,
Maybe you could solicit the Ann arbor parks into carrying Gateway discs for the players in the area!

The TEE' bird type disc could be out by summer and hopefully before worlds, but we have something in the works that could make it happen sooner or later depending on how long it takes.
We are considering selling some stock in gateway as a way to raise some capitol for growth!
A rough idea will be 10-20% of the company offered or 2000 shares at a $100.00 a piece.
I'm not sure how it will all work but this is what we are shooting for.
For those interested in possibly purchasing shares of the stock please contact [email protected] for more information or send me a PM.
We have a few killer names for some new discs, but cant really say at this time.

Mad Town, Bring some of those discs to Baraboo so I can compare them to what I have seen and thrown.

Thanks in advance

We may decide to run H in the wizard if there is a demand but once we get the E working in all of the molds, players will only want the clear translucent stuff anyway :eek:



Personally I prefer opaque discs though I know I'm in the minority here.

David,

I was able to get my hands on a few of the recent run of "puffy" Illusions and have to say I really like the way these things fly. Not as overstable as some of the other Illusions I've thrown, which suits my weinie arm nicely. I called Justin today to order up a bunch and was bummed to hear that they're gone. If you make any more of these, let me know!

Robbie

I'm talking about just giving some away, that's not a crime, is it? :confused:



Giving is ok. I have just seen some people get hassled and wanted to let you know beforehand.

Madd town,
Maybe you could solicit the Ann arbor parks into carrying Gateway discs for the players in the area!


Dave I agree there isn't enough Gateway in the Ann Arbor area

On another note I realy like the discs I recieved from Gateway.
E-Element is a sweet disc . It holds a great turnover line but still penetrates well.
E-Element -x red softer run? Allows you to really tourque a flat shot and still hold the line. Mine isn't super stable but I like that.
S-Saber I thisnk this is a great disc for any shot between a Midrange and a ultralong driver. It goes 325 without much effort.
E Spirit Is a great overstable driver very predictable. But still has lots of glide


Thanks again for the great discs.

Brookep,
You should try the E element X if you get a chance.
Did you get a blaze?

Yea I got a blaze but I haven't given it a good test yet.

I do have an E Element-x it's red. Is that not a regular E Element x?

Brooke,
I actually wound up putting the red ones in my bag.
There is a bit of S in the mix to make it a little flatter and porous on the surface.
the red are the only ones with that blend.
All of the other E element-X's are more overstable.
I like only slight angles of release for both hyzers and reverse. I dont throw dead flat very often
The red ones are awesome for releasing slight turnover for straight and left to right shots as they come out of it sooooooo slow.

Yes madtown, bring us gateway discs. : ) I'm especailly interested in the clear evolution sabre, bring it in cool colors like blue. It'd be awesome to have some gateway discs in shops around here, I play in SouthEast MIchigan (metro detroit) and not alot of people know about the gateway discs.

Thanx for the heads up brookep. I will have to see when i go there if the parks(or club) would be interested in carrying Gateway products. I'm just hoping that we are not alienated by the vendors cause its discraft country. :p

Madtown,
Maybe you could call them or email the hudson mills park department copying the request from the players in the area.
If anyone else knows of any local ann arbor retail stores or the club maybe you can PM madtown with some contact.
information. I was contacted by ( gunther knollendorf?)from the club at the end of last year, but I'm not sure anything ever materialized!
I think Hudson mills would be a great place for a gdstour event ;)

Or you could just get right outside the park lines and sell your discs :)

This is more of a suggestion, but I think I can put it in question form:

Do you know if there are any plans for you guys to start selling discs at any of the Air Traffic stores in the Twin Cities? The only other store I know of that sells Gateway up here is Gotta Go Gotta Throw and they're only open while I'm at work. A majority of the disc purchases I make are impulse buys (normally x-outs) at Air Traffic while I'm at a mall for some other reason.



Looks like I might have gotten lost in the shuffle. Do you know anything about this or should I just keep trying to ask at the stores?