How can you not like this guy?

http://www.ronpaul2008.com/

Alternatively, Why is it that people like this guy so much?

He is just another in the long line of irresponsible politicians, on both sides of the aisle, who pander to people's emotions, at the expense of reason and healthy and mature public policy. Why on earth should we face the actual facts and make tough decisions when we can simply play to the crowd and create convenient boogie men.

I knew nothing about this guy, other than Bryan likes him.....so I go to his "issues" section to get a taste. I see "property rights and eminent domain." Well, it seems like Mr. Paul is against eminent domain for building highways. He says that the government, through regulatory takings, is depriving property owners of significant value and use of their properties � all without paying �just compensation.�

Really now?

This is the typical irresponsible BS I hear from almost all politicians. Present a bunch of half-truths, in inflammatory terms of course, to appeal to the average man's contempt for government and regulation. This guy is the antithesis of a leader: a fear mongerer playing to the crowd.

Well, this was my long-winded answer to your question on "How can one not like this guy?"

His appeal is that he believes in the individual's rights over the rights of the riche and influential. Yes, some of his more Libertarian views are distasteful, but his record shows clearly that he is not for sale and he doesn't believe that our country should be for sale. That makes him appealing.

We live in a country where our politicians are for sale to the highest bidder and where imminent domain has been used for the betterment of business as opposed to the public good. This has led us into a war that serves the best interests of our oil companies, who by the way are taking us to the cleaners at the pump, and to a huge loss of our civil liberties.

Ron Paul represents some integrity. I might not agree with many of his basic principals but I don't have to. Since one of his basic beliefs is that our Constitution has merit, that means the checks and balances of our government would keep his most Libertarian positions in check.

On the other hand, his core belief that we have rights and that we should not go to war on a whim, and that we should stay out of interventionist politics are very appealing. Most of all, the fact that he is informed and is unwilling to fool himself about much of what drives Washington makes him admirable.

Too bad he's a Libertarian at heart.

This guy is the antithesis of a leader: a fear mongerer playing to the crowd.



If he's playing to the crowd, he must not be very good at it. Many Republicans want him taken off the debate stage and kicked out of the party.

Yeah, standing up to the bullying opportunism of Rudy G. is playing to the crowd!

The Next President Thread (http://www.pdga.com/msgboard/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=638443&page=0&fpart=1&vc =1&nt=20)

I have been trying to educate those that will listen for 5 months now. I have 20+ youtube videos on this thread of intereview with Ron Paul. I add new ones when a good one comes up.

Right now the Ron Paul campaign is on fire. He is being requested so much he has a hard time keeping up. In a phone interview friday, he stated he didn't even know how much money his campaign has raised because it is comming in so fast. He still does not have as much as it will take to fun a front runner campaign, but he is now the top of the "so called 2nd tier canidates"

It wont be much longer till he passes up McCain.

James, unlike all the other candidates, Ron Paul has been saying the same things for 31 years. He votes based on his beliefs and not who gives him money. In fact he gets little to no PAC money because most know they can't buy him. (the PAC money he does get comes from groups that support his views)

His nickname on Capital Hill is "Dr No". He has gotten this name because sometimes he is the only vote against a bill. If he views a bill as unconstitutional, he will vote against it no matter how good it might be.

This is why you have votes against bills that sound good like the Amber Alert Act. (BTW, the Rave Act was attached to this bill too, it make property/business owners of places Raves were held accountable for drug dealing and use on the property. In other words, if I rented out my space for a rave and 100 people showed up, if one was a dealer and got busted selling, under current law, the government could take my business away from me)

This bill was shot down by itself, so someone attached it to the Amber Alert bill, and who can vote against missing children.

So what you hear Ron Paul state is what he fights for, and has been fighting for.

Ron Paul introduced a bill this week that will end the Federal Reserve Act.

Ron Paul introduced a Declaration of War against Iraq, even though he said he would vote against it. He just wanted congress to follow the Constitution.



He has never voted to raise taxes.
He has never voted for an unbalanced budget.
He has never voted for a federal restriction on gun ownership.
He has never voted to raise congressional pay.
He has never taken a government-paid junket.
He has never voted to increase the power of the executive branch.

He voted against the Patriot Act.
He voted against regulating the Internet.
He voted against the Iraq war.

He does not participate in the lucrative congressional pension program.
He returns a portion of his annual congressional office budget to the U.S. treasury every year.

Congressman Paul introduces numerous pieces of substantive legislation each year, probably more than any single member of Congress.



So like Bredemeyer said, how can you not like this guy.

How is the fact that "Republicans don't want him" and "He stands up to Guliani" some counter to my assertion that he plays to a crowd? Playing to a crowd is akin to riling up a mob. Incite their passions, avoid complexities, or counter-views. Who needs them damnit, I've got people angry and that is enough to get me votes.

My example was a simple argument over eminent domain, and how his position is simply irresponsible, and is often used by right wing nutjobs to play to a crowd. It's always easier to rile up a mob than to take take an issue and study its nuances and bring those nuances up for debate because they are the heart of the issue. In other words, have an adult debate and discuss an issue in it's full complexity and demand your supporters do the same. That is leadership.

btw, I don't give a crap what Republicans or Guliani think, I'm just sick of people acting as if this guy is some political maverick, when he is simply doing what politicians always do.

Alternatively, Why is it that people like this guy so much?

He is just another in the long line of irresponsible politicians, on both sides of the aisle, who pander to people's emotions, at the expense of reason and healthy and mature public policy. Why on earth should we face the actual facts and make tough decisions when we can simply play to the crowd and create convenient boogie men.

I knew nothing about this guy, other than Bryan likes him.....so I go to his "issues" section to get a taste. I see "property rights and eminent domain." Well, it seems like Mr. Paul is against eminent domain for building highways. He says that the government, through regulatory takings, is depriving property owners of significant value and use of their properties � all without paying �just compensation.�

Really now?

This is the typical irresponsible BS I hear from almost all politicians. Present a bunch of half-truths, in inflammatory terms of course, to appeal to the average man's contempt for government and regulation. This guy is the antithesis of a leader: a fear mongerer playing to the crowd.

Well, this was my long-winded answer to your question on "How can one not like this guy?"



Interesting take. You seem more jaded with the entire process and less so with Mr. Paul himself.

Eminent Domain when used for the "public good" - roads, bridges etc. is acceptable. However when a city uses this to take away personal property for sale to investors, I see a major problem.

I don't agree with RP on everything, but I do feel he brings some interesting ideas to the table.

Ok James, here are 3 articles written by Ron Paul on

Lessons From the Kelo Decision (http://www.lewrockwell.com/paul/paul259.html)

The NAFTA Superhighway (http://www.lewrockwell.com/paul/paul349.html)

The second is really more about a North American Union (or SSP - Security and Prosperity Partnership of North America)

Elected Officials Threatening Property Rights (http://www.evervigilant.net/paul/paul090406.html)

dang, I hate this new board, "The form you have submitted is no longer valid."

Now I have to rewrite the whole thing :mad:

Thanks Bryan, now I'm more convinced than ever that his rhetoric is shallow.

I bet if I read everything on the supreme court decision (which I disagree with), I would find that the issue is hardly black and white, but filled with tough calls through and through. Besides, Mr. Paul did not state on his website that he was against eminent domain for the specific purpose of economic development. He did not specifically mention the Kelo decision in his iminent domain section. Instead, he couched whatever complex issues he had in mind in the simple lanaguage of "property rights" and "regulatory takings." Why on earth would he do that? ;)

As to the "Nafta Superhighway" or what I would call a highway to ease congestion in Texas, he basically decries NAFTA. OK, so he disagrees with NAFTA, what the hell does that have to do with the legitimate goverment purpose of condemning land for roads. If I were a pacifist, does that make condemning land for a road to Fort Hood unconstitutional? There is no freaking connection.

Mr. Paul is a smart man, and I propose that the two issues you provided links for are addressed in an intentionally sloppy and superficial manner, solely to create a bogeyman where none has to exist, so he can get the mob moving.

James, I know what you are talking about when you say �he plays to a crowd� This is what politicians do to get elected. It is what Rudy Ghooliani did in the second republican debate to Ron Paul.

Sound bites

However, Ron Paul has been saying the same things for 31 years. His voting record shows it too. He votes exactly as he preaches. He introduces bills that support what he says.

Really the only issue that Ron Paul differs significantly from the rest of the Republican field is the issue of the war in Iraq. (Well, we never declared war so it really is not a war)

On this issue, Ron Paul has never wavered as can be seen in his speech in December of 2001

Ron Paul on Another War Against Iraq (http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig/paul7.html)

On one of your other points, the Republican Party tolerates Ron Paul. He does not vote for an issue just because republicans want it. He votes on what he believes and if it follows the constitution. Please name one politician that votes that way. He is sometimes the only �Nay� in a vote. This is why they call him �Dr. No�

He is only a �political Maverick� in that he can not be purchased.

Most politicians get there campaign contributions from PAC�s. They know Ron Paul can not be purchased so he only gets a few (usually the ones that support the same views)

Thanks Bryan, now I'm more convinced than ever that his rhetoric is shallow. <font color="red"> Shallow???? how do you figure?? </font>

I bet if I read everything on the supreme court decision (which I disagree with) <font color="red"> At least we can agree on this </font> , I would find that the issue is hardly black and white, but filled with tough calls through and through. Besides, Mr. Paul did not state on his website that he was against eminent domain for the specific purpose of economic development. <font color="red"> 2 years after Kelo, who would remember it?? </font> He did not specifically mention the Kelo decision in his iminent domain section. Instead, he couched whatever complex issues he had in mind in the simple lanaguage of "property rights" and "regulatory takings." Why on earth would he do that? ;)

As to the "Nafta Superhighway" or what I would call a highway to ease congestion in Texas, he basically decries NAFTA. OK, so he disagrees with NAFTA, what the hell does that have to do with the legitimate goverment purpose of condemning land for roads. If I were a pacifist, does that make condemning land for a road to Fort Hood unconstitutional? There is no freaking connection. <font color="red"> In short, because the NAFTA super highways is a toll road. That is not even a public road. The company in charage of the road will profit from it. </font>

Mr. Paul is a smart man, and I propose that the two issues you provided links for are addressed in an intentionally sloppy and superficial manner, solely to create a bogeyman where none has to exist, so he can get the mob moving.



in that 3rd link about eminent domain , RP said what congress should do.


Congress can and should act to prevent the federal government from seizing private property. I've introduced and cosponsored several bills that prohibit or severely limit the power of Washington agencies to seize private property in locations around the nation. But the primary fight against local eminent domain actions must take place at the local level. The people of New London, Connecticut, like the people of Texas, could start by removing from office local officials who have so little respect for property rights

Posted on YouTube in October of last year

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Rudy's law firm represents the foriegn companay that will be collecting tolls. (http://wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=55695)

Thanks Bryan, now I'm more convinced than ever that his rhetoric is shallow.

I bet if I read everything on the supreme court decision (which I disagree with), I would find that the issue is hardly black and white, but filled with tough calls through and through. Besides, Mr. Paul did not state on his website that he was against eminent domain for the specific purpose of economic development. He did not specifically mention the Kelo decision in his iminent domain section. Instead, he couched whatever complex issues he had in mind in the simple lanaguage of "property rights" and "regulatory takings." Why on earth would he do that? ;)

As to the "Nafta Superhighway" or what I would call a highway to ease congestion in Texas, he basically decries NAFTA. OK, so he disagrees with NAFTA, what the hell does that have to do with the legitimate goverment purpose of condemning land for roads. If I were a pacifist, does that make condemning land for a road to Fort Hood unconstitutional? There is no freaking connection.

Mr. Paul is a smart man, and I propose that the two issues you provided links for are addressed in an intentionally sloppy and superficial manner, solely to create a bogeyman where none has to exist, so he can get the mob moving.



James,

You really need to look at Paul's record. I don't like much of what he stands for either, but your notion that he is simply using hype to get attention is incorrect. He truly says what is on his mind. Remember, many of the positions he takes are not popular and have not been. He stuck by his guns all along. Don't count the attention he's getting as manipulated, he took the negative attention when he had the balls to vote against this war and he has stood by his position all along.

Call him what you will but he is honest.

Rue Paul for President!

dang, I hate this new board, "The form you have submitted is no longer valid."

Now I have to rewrite the whole thing :mad:

dont use the Quick Reply. the message is caused by someone else posting to the thread while you are writing the response.

Shallow. Hmmm. Which line should I choose. from the last article, there is this:


When government can seize your property without your consent, all of your other rights are negated. Our founders would roll over in their graves if they knew that the takings clause in the Fifth Amendment was being used to justify unholy alliances between private developers and tax-hungry local governments.



Well, I guess Americans have had no rights since the 1700s since eminent domain has been around a long time. I also like the fact that he conveniently leaves out that sticky issue of compensation.

Then he rails about eminent domain being used to subsidize developers, like this hasn't been going on since day one in America. I guess the difference now is that these are developers he doesn't like.

I've gone astray. My point about shallowness and mob baiting is best illustrated in his first quoted sentence: an ounce of substance combined with a pound of hyperbole, all in an effort to alert the mob that "their rights will disappear if the government keeps doing what it has done for hundreds of years."

As to the toll road. I know nothing about the right way to run a toll road. I also have complete faith that if Governor Perry is behind the push for tolls, then some supporter will inevitably profit. It's the corruption that is a problem, not the toll roads. Tolls are merely a presently favored way to finance road construction, because the user pays.

In sum, instead of focusing on the corrupt nature of this toll arrangement (those boring details), he attacks the toll system and eminent domain: two legitimate things that have unnecessarily become rallying cries for shallow minded far right. I have seen nothing in his writings to indicate that he is anything more than someone outflanking the Republican Party, using their pet emotional triggers and the same fear-feeding tactics that have hurt this country for a long time. I do give him credit for creating that irony.

One serious question. Does Rush Limbaugh or whomever the present right-wing radio darlings are, support Ron Paul over the other Republicans?

Of course he's hyper-bowling. So what's your point? The fact that he's using it doesn't mean he isn't right.

Eminent domain has been abused since the start. I know of many cases, can you say rail-road lines. The plain and simple fact that he's mad about this doesn't make him a bad person; nor does it make him incorrect.

What's more, comparing him to Rush Limbaugh, the king of fantasy conservativism is unfair. Read Rush's history, if he can't find a fact, he makes one up. Ron is the antithesis of this. In the end, Rush and most of the power elite won't support Paul. He doesn't believe that our politics should be for sale. Since that is the one thing that both the GOP and Dems agree on, they won't like Paul one bit.

Paul is pretty factual. Again, I don't like much of his message, but I'm not going to condemn him because he is excited about his issues. That's what the news guys did to Howard Dean. He had the stupidity to be excited and passionate about his campaign and he got ridiculed.

Paul may have a screw loose about some issues but he is honest, he hasn't been bought, and he is right about some of his most basic principles.

So tell us James, who do you like or are you just slamming Paul on basic principals? Who do you think represents the moral fiber of this country. Who's the good guy?

Actually I never use the quick reply, but I was on that page for a long time (I am at work today)

Rue Paul for President!


Shut the [censored] up Rhett :D

Paul may have a screw loose about some issues

I would like to know which issues you disagree with.

You are right about one thing, Ron Paul is not you�re a-typical politician. I know that is one reason he has so much backing from the independent and normal 3rd party voters. It is one of the main reasons I am 110% behind him. (Well that and I agree with him on about 90% of the issues)

I just got around to watching the last REP debate via DVR. I thought they went to Congressman Paul more than in the previous debate. He seemed to hold his own pretty well.

Its interesting to me that he was the only person on the stage who as against using "tactical" (I guess this means they are safer?) nuclear weapons against Iran as a "pre-emtive measure in the region".

Nuking a country so they arent able to enrich uraniun? Is that a strategy to make the world see how we do things the American way?

William, what is scary is that only a few of the 2nd tier Democrats will take a first strike off the table agaist Iran.

If Iran started attacking one of our ships, I could see us bombing them, but bombing a country just because there leader does not like us??? Oh yea, we did that in Iraq :o

I have a flyer that I printed out from the www.ronpaul2008.com (http://www.ronpaul2008.com) web site.

Here is what it says about Property Rights and Eminent Domain


We must stop special interests from violating property rights and literally driving families from their homes, farms and ranches.

Our country�s founders would roll over in their graves if they saw the takings clause in the Fifth Amendment used to justify booting people out of their homes for the profit of private developers and tax-hungry local governments. The Supreme Court�s Kelo decision said government power could be used to condemn private homes and churches to benefit a huge pharmaceutical corporation and a large property developer.

Today, we face a new threat of widespread eminent domain actions as a result of powerful interests who want to build a NAFTA superhighway through the United States from Mexico to Canada.

We also face another danger in regulatory takings: Through excess regulation, governments deprive property owners of significant value and use of their properties � all without paying �just compensation.�

Property rights are the foundation of all rights in a free society. Without the right to own a printing press, for example, freedom of the press becomes meaningless. The next president must get federal agencies out of these schemes to deny property owners their constitutional rights to life, liberty, and property.



For those of you in the Austin area, you might be familiar with the NAFTA Superhighway, they are trying to get a one mile wide right of way from Mexico all the way to Canada. One of the problems is how wide this area they want is. (from what I hear, the width has been lessened) Why do they want it so wide. One reason could be so that they would be able to lease land for retail shops or own all billboards located along the way. This eleminates compitition in a way.

For those of us in the DFW area, we should know about the new Cowboy stadium. The city of Arlington used eminent domain to buy up property for the statium. In most cases, they were paying MUCH less than the property was worth. One of the things that was happeneing, they were offering up to half what the property was worth.

For those of us that pay Property taxes, you pay based on what the county apprasial says your house and properety is worth. Well in Arlington, they were paying as much has 1/2 that amount. So when you have been paying Taxes based on a $80,0000 house, then the city comes in an offers you $40,000, is that right???????

That is what Ron Paul is trying to fight.

William, what is scary is that only a few of the 2nd tier Democrats will take a first strike off the table agaist Iran.


Why would you want to embolden our enemies by taking any of our possible actions "off the table"???

About the only half-arsed workable exit strategy from Iraq would be "nuke Iran, pull out of Iraq." All other scenarios lead to a double-sized Iranian super-state.

Paul may have a screw loose about some issues

I would like to know which issues you disagree with.

You are right about one thing, Ron Paul is not you�re a-typical politician. I know that is one reason he has so much backing from the independent and normal 3rd party voters. It is one of the main reasons I am 110% behind him. (Well that and I agree with him on about 90% of the issues)



I don't believe in laissez faire business. Every time we deregulate business, or don't manage what they do, they screw everyone, including themselves. There needs to be government regulation.

I also don't believe in the no IRS position he takes. I do believe in a much reduced IRS and something like a flat tax and I'm guessing the compromise between his position and the rest of Congress would get us there. I do agree with him that the government has been a poor steward of our money. But eliminating business influence on law making will help with that.

I have a flyer that I printed out from the www.ronpaul2008.com (http://www.ronpaul2008.com) web site.

Here is what it says about Property Rights and Eminent Domain


We must stop special interests from violating property rights and literally driving families from their homes, farms and ranches.

Our country�s founders would roll over in their graves if they saw the takings clause in the Fifth Amendment used to justify booting people out of their homes for the profit of private developers and tax-hungry local governments. The Supreme Court�s Kelo decision said government power could be used to condemn private homes and churches to benefit a huge pharmaceutical corporation and a large property developer.

Today, we face a new threat of widespread eminent domain actions as a result of powerful interests who want to build a NAFTA superhighway through the United States from Mexico to Canada.

We also face another danger in regulatory takings: Through excess regulation, governments deprive property owners of significant value and use of their properties � all without paying �just compensation.�

Property rights are the foundation of all rights in a free society. Without the right to own a printing press, for example, freedom of the press becomes meaningless. The next president must get federal agencies out of these schemes to deny property owners their constitutional rights to life, liberty, and property.



For those of you in the Austin area, you might be familiar with the NAFTA Superhighway, they are trying to get a one mile wide right of way from Mexico all the way to Canada. One of the problems is how wide this area they want is. (from what I hear, the width has been lessened) Why do they want it so wide. One reason could be so that they would be able to lease land for retail shops or own all billboards located along the way. This eleminates compitition in a way.

For those of us in the DFW area, we should know about the new Cowboy stadium. The city of Arlington used eminent domain to buy up property for the statium. In most cases, they were paying MUCH less than the property was worth. One of the things that was happeneing, they were offering up to half what the property was worth.

For those of us that pay Property taxes, you pay based on what the county apprasial says your house and properety is worth. Well in Arlington, they were paying as much has 1/2 that amount. So when you have been paying Taxes based on a $80,0000 house, then the city comes in an offers you $40,000, is that right???????

That is what Ron Paul is trying to fight.



I'm much less worried about the NAFTA super highway than China. What does he say there Za?

William, what is scary is that only a few of the 2nd tier Democrats will take a first strike off the table agaist Iran.


Why would you want to embolden our enemies by taking any of our possible actions "off the table"???

About the only half-arsed workable exit strategy from Iraq would be "nuke Iran, pull out of Iraq." All other scenarios lead to a double-sized Iranian super-state.



Spoken like a true conservative. :D

On the other hand, do you really think any state, Iran or America for that matter is going to use a nuclear strike to achieve their goals? We'd be pariahs and Iran would become a steaming black hole in the desert. Neither is going to do something that stupid. And before you come back with the Rhetoric that comes out of their leadership as evidence that they are out of control, who called who the evil empire?

What was it Bush said about a crusade?

We are all to willing to spew invective and excuse it while labeling anyone else who does it as awful.

Second point, is the double-Iranian super-state sort of equivalent to the Communist take over that happened after we pulled out of Viet Nam? Oh wait...

Fear, use it, believe in it. Why? Because it works. /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

What the real analysts say, you know, the ones from the CIA, is that our being in Iraq is pushing them more towards Iran than our not being there. At least take the time to read the stuff Za posted about terrorism and the effect our presence in Iraq has on the Middle East before jumping in with the standard conservative dogma. Dogma which has been proven incorrect numerous times.

Last point, the notion that nuclear weapons should be kept on the table, whatever that means in reality, is somewhat less than human IMO. Given that we know what they do, and are in theory a civilized, informed country, why would we ever consider using such a thing? I'd rather have those evil religious fanatics take over and convert us all to Islam... Bwaaa Ha Ha Ha Ha! Yep, I believe that's gonna happen!

China first


Title: Your Taxes Subsidize China
Date: 2006-08-14
Speech

Your Taxes Subsidize China

August 14, 2006

Each year the people of the United States write a check to subsidize China, one of the most brutal, anti-American regimes in the world. Lately it has been in vogue for everyone in Washington to eagerly denounce the egregious abuses of the Chinese people at the hands of their communist dictators. Yet no one in our federal government has been willing to take China on in any meaningful way.

Very few people realize that China is one of the biggest beneficiaries of American taxpayer subsidies. Thanks to the largesse of Congress and the President, China enjoys subsidized trade and the flow of US tax dollars into Beijing's coffers.

I offered an amendment before the House of Representatives last month that would have ended the $4 billion subsidy our nation quietly gives China through the US government's Export-Import Bank. The bank underwrites the purchases of goods and services by the Chinese government and others around the world. Unfortunately, only a minority of Democrats or Republicans supported my measure. Apparently, many members of Congress are happy to bash China, but don�t mind lending her U.S. taxpayer money at sweetheart interest rates.

Some of your money went to fund a nuclear power plant in Shanghai owned by the China National Nuclear Corporation, a state-run company. Many US-based multinational corporations benefit directly from Export-Import Bank subsidies to China, including Boeing, Westinghouse, and McDonnell Douglas. So it�s not hard to understand that business trumps the feelgood rhetoric condemning China.

There is no constitutional authority for Congress to make loans to any country, and certainly no basis for giving away the hard-earned cash of Americans to communist leaders who brutalize their women and children with forced abortions, and persecute Christians for their faith.

In reality, there is very little the federal government can do about conditions in China. Under our Constitution, the federal government simply does not have the authority to point a gun at Chinese leaders and force them to respect the principles of liberty. It just doesn't work that way.
I believe that by engaging the Chinese people, opening personal dialogue, and seeking to change their hearts and minds, we soon will see that regime collapse. The laws of economics dictate that a communist system cannot stand for long. But in the same way, I firmly believe there is a higher law which dictates that people exposed to the principles of liberty will not for long allow themselves to remain shackled to an oppressive government. Economic freedom, i.e. capitalism, now has a strong foothold in China. The Chinese people may soon demand political, religious, and personal freedom as well. But in the meantime let�s stop sending tax dollars to support a government we claim to despise.




2006-09-07
in a speach about free trade

Forty years of sanctions against Castro have left him in power and fomented continued hatred and blame from the Cuban people directed at us. Trade with Cuba likely would have accomplished the opposite, as it has in Vietnam, China and even the Eastern Bloc nations of the old Soviet empire

No Amnesty, No Welfare for Illegal Aliens

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

June 18, 2007

ARLINGTON, VA � As a congressman, Ron Paul has been a leader in the fight to end illegal immigration. He voted for a border fence, opposes the current Senate "compromise" bill, and introduced legislation to end birth right citizenship. Dr. Paul has consistently warned Americans about the looming menace of the North American Union and is the only presidential candidate calling for an end to welfare benefits, mandatory medical care and free education for illegal aliens.

"No leader in Washington has fought to end illegal immigration harder than Congressman Ron Paul," said Ron Paul 2008 campaign chairman Kent Snyder. "Dr. Paul knows that America must never grant amnesty to those who are in our country illegally."

The following are statements Dr. Paul has made in the U.S. House of Representatives:

-- "The much-vaunted Senate "compromise" on immigration is a compromise alright: a compromise of our laws, a compromise of our sovereignty, and a compromise of the Second Amendment. That anyone in Washington believes this is a credible approach to solving our immigration crisis suggests just how out of touch our political elites really are."

-- "If we reward millions who came here illegally, surely millions more will follow suit. Ten years from now we will be in the same position, with a whole new generation of lawbreakers seeking amnesty."

-- "...real national security cannot be achieved unless and until our borders are physically secured. It's as simple as that. All the talk about fighting terror and making America safer is meaningless without border security. It makes no sense to seek terrorists abroad if our own front door is left unlocked."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=peBGJwE9NXo&amp;mode=user&amp;search=

ok, I have been living on Youtube.

Check out my page.

http://www.youtube.com/PizzaGod

(ignor the video log, I just found out I put something there. I have been playing with it)

See, there's the Ron Paul contradiction.

What he says about China is true and very important. However, his notion that building the great wall of America will protect us from illegal immigrants misses the point. Don't get me wrong, it may work, if you actually build it. The problem is that it builds an America that I'm not sure I like that much. In this I wonder if James' point isn't correct. Is Paul using a Red Herring to get attention and votes? Does Paul really believe that illegal immigrants are a threat to our way of life?

Big business, and out of control government are much larger threats than the poor people who come here from SA. In point of fact, big business is the same threat that pushes the poor from SA to come here. Their desire for cheap labor here, and their desire to keep low pay and bad working conditions in SA is a great incentive for South Americans to come to this country.

BTW - Bush's eco-fuel initiatives (ethanol) is going to exacerbate the problem. Corn farmers from Mexico would rather send their corn here for fuel, than feed their own people. Bad problem coming.

the advantages china has gained from its trade surplus come from the unsatiable comsumerism of the American people. our wants are far more to blame than any other factor.

from a social policy and conditions perspective, chinese women walk safe on 99.9% of chinese streets - even in cities of 15 million or so. paul's view of china is predictablly undeveloped and shallow.


For those of us in the DFW area, we should know about the new Cowboy stadium. The city of Arlington used eminent domain to buy up property for the statium. In most cases, they were paying MUCH less than the property was worth. One of the things that was happeneing, they were offering up to half what the property was worth.

Za, show your sources. i have a good friend in Zone 2 of the development (he'll lose his house in the later expansion phase). he tells me everyone he talked to in the neighborhood was treated fairly and feels they got a decent price.

This is not really related to Ron Paul. Sorry Bryan, I just wanted to ask Pat a question about China since it was brought up on this thread. So here it is:

Given your personal sources, how true are the stories I hear about the trade links to China and the Sudan especially in regards to the Darfur region? Also, how true are the stories I hear about child labor problems still occuring in China? I can look on all the news links, but I want to hear from you, Pat, because of your special ties, both from past business and personal relationships. Just how important is it for me to look at the Made in China label when wanting to be a conscientious consumer, while realizing that many of our American companies ship out and many items are made by child labor in countries other than China?
Thanks

china has a lot of business interests in africa, there is no doubt. both at the large/country level and also with many chinese entrepreneurs investing/developing smaller scale projects throughout the continent. china's appetite for oil (similar in scale to that of the US) means that strengthening relationships with any country even remotely related to oil and energy production offers a strategic advantage. for better or worse, that puts china on a course to increase its ties with africa in general.

child labor problems absolutely exist in china. last week saw a well-publicized and completely horrifying account of child labor abuses in my daughter home province of Henan. while the police ended up busting the operations, the local police apparently had a large hand in protecting the scheme. one should note that capital punishment can be handed out in a wider array of cases in china than in the US. these cases are included in that array, so while these occurances are beyond despicable, the perps often pay the ultimate price for their misdeeds. (so are white collar crimes such as embezzlement and misuse of public funds by government officials... lets send the Enron boys over :) )

china has some other tricky issues, such as the oppression of the breakaway islamic fundamentalists in the northwest. china, like the US and the state of texas, takes a dim view of seccessionists. in this case one must condemn the US if one takes a stand against china, because the US gives de facto approval for the suppression under the general heading of "anti-terrorism". i guess my point is that its a dirty world out there and the US does not hesitate to play in the mud when it suits its interests.

that being said, i dont think penalizing the entire chinese economy because of the misdeeds of some factory owners gets us anywhere, any more that deciding to hate all Disctrict Attorneys because of the Duke case. instead, china should be encouraged and expected to prosecute these cases when they are discovered, and to show continued and visible progress towards eliminating them in the future.

i'm not sure i am the best person to ask though. regardless of my china background, i am predisposed to believe that engagement and participation gets better results than isolation and demonization.

btw, when tuning in to the rhetoric about th $/Yuan exchange rate, remember the thing about chinese demand for oil. fact is china is a huge competitor for oil purchases. nothing would help the US's purchasing power more than lowering the exchange rate. in simple numbers, check this out: lets say oil is $100/barrel. your bidders are a US firm with $1000 to spend and a chinese buyer with 8000rmb. because oil purchases are conducted in US$, the chinese guy needs to convert to dollars to complete the transaction. at the current 8rmb/1usd rate (actually it has dropped to ~7.615 but i am keepiong the math easy) both bidders can buy 10 barrells if the price is $100/barrel.

the US wants china to get to somewhere between 4-5rmb/$. if the US got its way, china's ability to purchase oil would be cut by 40% or so, cheapening oil for the US and raising its price to the chinese. that means big shift in favor of the US... and explains some of the fervor with which the current administration is pestering china on currency issues. so when we hear all the "currency manipulation" talk, follow the money and remember there is a lot more to the currency rate rhetoric than just the trade balance.

"one should note that capital punishment can be handed out in a wider array of cases in china than in the US"
Hey, TX is still number one when it comes to numbers!

"i'm not sure i am the best person to ask though. regardless of my china background, i am predisposed to believe that engagement and participation gets better results than isolation and demonization."
I know. THAT is one of the main reasons to ask you. With several of the organizations I belong currenty calling for action against China and bringing forth so much about the child labor and Sudan connections, I wanted to hear the other side. However, it is my understand from limited readings that Amnesty Intl is working with China to help fund them to look other places for oil and other interests than Sudan. I am still researching much of it myself. I've had so many non-political things in life lately, that I'm disappointed in my own lack of current knowledge. I leave for DC tomorrow to meet with some people and wanted some of your insight. Thanks, it's just what I hoped for.

As the main super power, the US is essentially the one with the power to influence who does business with whom. Unfortuntely, with the current admin., we are putting our financial interests first. In the past, while keeping our financial interest ahead, other interests such as humanitarian and environmental where at least examined. My belief is that if we do not have humanitarian and environmental interests in mind, our financial picture won't matter in a few decades.
There, now I've brought my posts full circle back to the thread topic at hand.
Bryan, I am not sure, but I do not believe Sen Paul and I would see eye to eye on those aspects. What are Ron Paul's views on the environmental and human rights concerns that I have?
BTW, it's still difficult for me to type Sen Paul without following it with the last name Wellstone.

Democrats have will be pushing Health Care and bringing an end to the Iraq conflict.

Republicans in general will be pushing immigration and expanding "War on Terrorism"

One thing that only Ron Paul saying is that we need to end birth rigiht citizenship. The 14th amendment is beinig used wrong. It was set up so that kids of slaves could become citizens. The 14th amendment was never intended to be used for ilegal aliens kids to become citizens. It was intended so that you would not have to file paperwork for YOUR kid to become a US citizen.

Ron Paul is also the only presidential candidate calling for an end to welfare benefits, mandatory medical care and free education for illegal aliens.

However, he has also stated he supports programs to let MORE legal means for imigrants to enter the US.

Why do so many want to penalize the children of illegal immigrants?
Did their children make the decision to cross border? no
Because someone's mother and father sneaked across a border, why should someone that perhaps has been here for his or her entire childhood be denied medical care and an education? Do you really want this person to die in the streets, to grow up uneducated? These are people, children. I really don't understand.

it did it again


The form you have submitted is no longer valid.




I has listed several articles about this subject.

Laura, that is why we have a major problem. We have been letting these people cross our boarder and not really doing anything about it. These people are breaking the law and should be deported as soon as they are found.

As of right now, they (aliens) know nothing is being done. As can be seen by their rallies, they think they have a right to be here.

I would like to see you cross the boarder into ANY other country illegally and demand they speak English, give them free education, free health care, and have them NOT deport you.

I am sorry, I use to feel differently about this subject, but over the last few years it has really gotten bad.

If I go to the hospital and don't pay my bill, they hound me for months till I start paying them. If someone who is illegal goes the hospital, they can't even track them down when they leave. So they never pay their bills. (even part of them)

Right now in Mexico, if you are poor, they will pay for 100% of your health care. I say, lets send Mexico the bill for all the illegal Mexicans that skip out on their bills.

Think of how much less the hospitals could charge if people could actually pay there bills.

The issue of immigration is my biggest issue right now. The city of Farmers Branch tried to do something about it. They had 4 lawsuits against them; one has already been thrown out of court. The other 3 kept the new ordinance from being enforced. The people who were against this law wanted to people to vote for it. When the 2/3rd of the voters said they supported the law, the opponents sued the city.

I am sick and tired of people calling me up and being mad I don�t speak Spanish. I never have this problem with ANY other language. (I speak enough Spanish to take an order; I just can�t hold a conversation.



Ok, rant off.

Here's a point on which I depart from many of my "liberal" bretheren and also Ron Paul: National ID cards. I think the illegal immigration problem is caused primarily by the companies that hire them. Without jobs to come for, they wouldn't come. Many/most companies don't intentionally hire illegals, but it's difficult/impossible to verify someone's eligibility for employment. There's a huge black market for fraudulent papers.

I'm opposed to a "show me your papers" society and would never support a law that says you have to carry ID with you at all times. (It's crazy how many people think that's the case now.) I am not opposed, however, to requiring a license to drive, hunt, registration to vote, or requiring verifiable ID to obtain employment.

Here's my "amnesty" plan: all employees have one year to obtain a "Federal Employment ID". After that, no ID, YOU'RE FIRED!. After the year period, FBI begins serious employer sting operations. Companies that are caught employing illegals are then slapped with severe penalties. And a system is developed to screen all that are arrested and if they're determined to be illegal they go before the judge and argue as to why they shouldn't be deported.

Here's your amnesty: go home and then get in line.

Children of illegals shouldn't be in public schools. It's not our responsibility to educate 1/2 of Mexico any more than it's our responsibility to build missile defense systems in Europe. We're not adequtately educating and providing health care for the citizens we already have, we can't take on the problems of all the rest of the world. There's charity and then there's societal suicide.

Let me clarify one important point: I do not blame the people that have come here illegally, I blame the businesses that have profited from their labor and the politicians whose elections have been fueled by those businesses. The workers have been told, "technically it's illegal, but if you "find" some papers wink, wink, we've got a job for you." If you really think we should go on a crusuade to root out every single one of the 12 million or so illegal workers and deport each and every one of them, then I say you're obligated to also go down to your local police station today and hand them a list of the 100 or so people that you personally know who smoke marijuana and demand that they all be thrown in prison.

As an employer, I have to verfy my new employes. They either need a green card, or an State issued ID and a SS card. (passport works too) If I don't have one of these I9's on file for each employee, it is a $1000 fine.

Papers please (http://www.papersplease.org/wp/)


Our Federal government CANT even get all the passports issued right now. The backlog is so great they just moved the deadline back ANOTHER 6 months.

Our Federal government CANT even get all the passports issued right now. The backlog is so great they just moved the deadline back ANOTHER 6 months.


c'mon, it's not because they can't, it just isn't a priority. let's see, if we bring home 1/2 the troops in iraq, they could knock out those passports in about a week or two.

it's funny how there's all this privacy and nazi fear around an ID card after most of us quietly demured when the patriot act was passed and don't think it's a problem that dick cheney can tap our phones without a warrarnt, label us enenmy combatants, swoop us off to a secret prison in a foreign country and torture us until we tell them what they want to hear whether it's true or not.

I had to post this


Wednesday, June 20, 2007
Romney shouldn't take his Utah supporters for granted
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Daily Herald
I attended the Utah GOP convention over the weekend, and a few things caught my attention. Most notable was the dramatic effect grass-roots politics can have in the early stages of the political process, especially at the local level.

Mitt Romney won the straw poll, but the real story was the massive presence of Ron Paul supporters at the event. They had a separate convention room and were playing videos of Paul's debates to passersby.

Rep. Ron Paul came in second in the straw poll ahead of "frontrunners" like McCain and Guliani. The work of his supporters had a big impact.

Regardless of religious or political views, one thing people do not like is to be taken for granted. If Romney continues to assume that Republican voters in Utah will support him purely because of religious affiliation, he may find his support eroded by a candidate who is more active in Utah and whose positions are much more in harmony with the Utah GOP platform.

Spencer Morgan,

Salt Lake City






For those haters out there. This one is for you
http://www.ihateronpaul.com/

Another little tidbit


IVR polls of Austin has conducted a poll of Texas Republicans to see what they were thinking about their Presidential sweepstakes. The results without former Tennessee Senator Fred Thompson were:

Without Thompson

Giuliani - 26%
McCain - 18%
Romney - 15%
Huckabee - 7%
Paul - 6%
Other Announced - 13%
Undecided - 15%


With Thompson in the race the results were:

Thompson - 29%
Giuliani - 21%
McCain - 13%
Romney - 9%
Huckabee - 4%
Paul - 6%
Other Announced - 6%
Undecided - 11%


IVR says that while only 17% of Republicans openly said they were "undecided" in the race fully 70% said they were "still making up their minds." IVR uses automated technology to make computer generated calls. They defend their approach here.




viva la revolution

6% and growing!!!!! 70% still looking!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

and this is just TEXAS.

We need a change in AMERICA. We need to become world leaders again, WITHOUT using a gun. We need leadership like RON PAUL.

I watched/listened to another great interview with him last night. I will post it next.

china has a lot of business interests in africa, there is no doubt. both at the large/country level and also with many chinese entrepreneurs investing/developing smaller scale projects throughout the continent. china's appetite for oil (similar in scale to that of the US) means that strengthening relationships with any country even remotely related to oil and energy production offers a strategic advantage. for better or worse, that puts china on a course to increase its ties with africa in general.

child labor problems absolutely exist in china. last week saw a well-publicized and completely horrifying account of child labor abuses in my daughter home province of Henan. while the police ended up busting the operations, the local police apparently had a large hand in protecting the scheme. one should note that capital punishment can be handed out in a wider array of cases in china than in the US. these cases are included in that array, so while these occurances are beyond despicable, the perps often pay the ultimate price for their misdeeds. (so are white collar crimes such as embezzlement and misuse of public funds by government officials... lets send the Enron boys over :) )

china has some other tricky issues, such as the oppression of the breakaway islamic fundamentalists in the northwest. china, like the US and the state of texas, takes a dim view of seccessionists. in this case one must condemn the US if one takes a stand against china, because the US gives de facto approval for the suppression under the general heading of "anti-terrorism". i guess my point is that its a dirty world out there and the US does not hesitate to play in the mud when it suits its interests.

that being said, i dont think penalizing the entire chinese economy because of the misdeeds of some factory owners gets us anywhere, any more that deciding to hate all Disctrict Attorneys because of the Duke case. instead, china should be encouraged and expected to prosecute these cases when they are discovered, and to show continued and visible progress towards eliminating them in the future.

i'm not sure i am the best person to ask though. regardless of my china background, i am predisposed to believe that engagement and participation gets better results than isolation and demonization.

btw, when tuning in to the rhetoric about th $/Yuan exchange rate, remember the thing about chinese demand for oil. fact is china is a huge competitor for oil purchases. nothing would help the US's purchasing power more than lowering the exchange rate. in simple numbers, check this out: lets say oil is $100/barrel. your bidders are a US firm with $1000 to spend and a chinese buyer with 8000rmb. because oil purchases are conducted in US$, the chinese guy needs to convert to dollars to complete the transaction. at the current 8rmb/1usd rate (actually it has dropped to ~7.615 but i am keepiong the math easy) both bidders can buy 10 barrells if the price is $100/barrel.

the US wants china to get to somewhere between 4-5rmb/$. if the US got its way, china's ability to purchase oil would be cut by 40% or so, cheapening oil for the US and raising its price to the chinese. that means big shift in favor of the US... and explains some of the fervor with which the current administration is pestering china on currency issues. so when we hear all the "currency manipulation" talk, follow the money and remember there is a lot more to the currency rate rhetoric than just the trade balance.



My impression is that you are viewing this through rose coloured glasses but I could be wrong.

I work in a company that hires a large number of mainland Chinese and the way they tell it differs from the way you tell it.

First, they argue that pretty much everyone breaks the rules and that American companies are fooling themselves if they think they are going to have good control of the manufacturing process in China.

Given the stiff penalties you would wonder why. What I'm told is that life is so hard per say that they figure they have little to lose. Seems harsh but this is the same response I've gotten from a number of Northern Chinese employees at my company.

These same employees tell me that we've just touched the tip of the iceberg on the issues coming out now.

The second issue is the exchange rate, kept artificially low by the Chinese so as to favor our moving manufacturing there. Given that type of action, I fail to see how good "dialog" is going to fix problems with the relationship. The very foundation is fixed to favor them over us.

The third issue is American Companies who are moving manufacturing to China, not based on any gain in superior products are helping the American economy, but rather putting short term gains in their investor's pockets. It's the law of the commons. Short term gains leading to long term loss. Who's going to buy all those cheap products when all the jobs have moved to China?

Peruse the most recent copies of Business Week. There is a wonderful article showing that someone has figured out why there is a disconnect between our stock market gains of the past 10 years and a lack of actual wage increases. The government tells us, based on the rising stock market, that we have growth. It turns out the growth is artificial, based on moving jobs and money to China. Our economic growth has been substantially less than we think.

Our relationship with China is a bust. Bring back the tariff. Make them pay for holding the yuan down in value and make American Companies pay the real price for manufacturing in China.

thats why you dont blindly accept the views pf chinese factory workes on global economics.

That's the reason you don't blindly accept the views of any one side of any topic and the reason I asked for a different side than I had previously heard. All sides have at least a slightly different view of reality. Only if we look at all sides of a puzzle do we see the whole picture. Thank you both for your insight.

thats why you dont blindly accept the views pf chinese factory workes on global economics.



Not sure I understand this? What views of what Chinese factory workers?

Since Pat hasn't responded I thought it only appropriate to give a little more info, lest someone think that every thing I wrote was based on the blind acceptance of info from Chinese factory workers.


I work for a Taiwanese American Company in Houston. Houston has one of the largest Asian populations in the country. One of the job growth areas in China-town in the past 10 years has been in export import. I've talked to three types of people concerning this topic.

1) Chinese Nationals with college educations. They are adamant about our inability to control manufacturing in their country.

2) Importers who say that the products they are getting from China are subpar

3) Taiwanese who have traveled to China and purchased products there who state that the number of shoddy products that were made with illegal materials are much higher than those they've encountered in any other country.

Now, this is of course anecdotal, but take it in the following context; the information being provided is proving true

-Dog food
-Fish feed
-Lead paint
-Tooth paste
-Possibly tires

The first conversation I had with a Chinese National was after the dogfood case. That's when I was told to wait and see, there would be a lot more cases coming along.

Given the current rate of incidents, one has to wonder where we will be in a year or so?

Compare this with what we see in exports from say Mexico. Have you heard of similar incidents concerning products from that country?

The fact that China controls the value of the Yuan isn't something I pulled from my donkey. Google Yuan and Chinese Central Bank. Most countries let their currency float against other currencies. Those that don't usually do so for their own benefit. That China is doing this to help in their trade relationships is agreed on by both Academic and Federally Employed Economists. Again, a Google will confirm this. That it gets them an advantage in the access to oil doesn't make it O.K.

This has been enough of an issue that Congress has discussed embargoes and tariffs a number of times, and every time the lobbyists step in and tell their paid boys how it will destroy our economy and the topic gets dropped. Again, a Google of Yuan, Congress, and a few other associated words will get you plenty of info.

That American manufactures have moved to China in droves should not surprise anyone but again a Google will show this to be true.

As for the idea that our current economic growth isn't matched by increases in wages can be Googled also. Finally, that our Feds measurement of economic growth, based on Wall Street's growth might be incorrect can be confirmed by going to the public library and looking at recent copies of Business Week (I have it at home but not here in the office).

While the notion that we shouldn't point fingers at China is an accurate one, that doesn't mean we should somehow be forgiving either. The fact that American products are often produced in countries in sweatshops, doesn't mean we should say, "well, we're doing it, therefore we can't tell China not to." As concerned citizens, we should tell our government not to allow it here, and to impede trade with any country that allows it, including China.

As for Sudan, again, the fact that America has blood on her hands doesn't somehow make it O.K. that China does. That China has impeded any action on the part of the U.N. in concerns to the genocide happening in Sudan is well documented. Again, the fact that America would do the same isn't an excuse, instead it is a pathetic comment on our own actions in the world.

ok, how much defective product is too much? 10%?... 3%?... 0.001% ? what's microsoft at? how about Ford?

sensationalizing the failures of imported products plays right into a protectionist agenda.

At some level wouldn't that depend on the product? Would one want to compare a faulty processor or muffler with a contaminated food source that will kill people?

What is an acceptable error rate? Do we have any information on this issue? What we do have is several incidents of food contamination on a very large scale that we aren't seeing from food stuffs produced in other countries. Those incidents all point to a lack of control of the food production process in China. Ignoring that is wrong. I will say that the frequency of incidents is way higher than I would think of as acceptable.

As for the term "protectionist agenda." Just who coined that phrase and why is it such a bad thing?

Let's speculate. Most likely, big business who wanted cheap labor in third world countries coined it. Protectionism was bad for America, bad for business, it kept people in third world countries from making a decent living. Wasn't that the story? Since the "fall" of evil protectionism the standard of living in third world countries, on average, has plummeted (by fall I mean the open trade that has occurred since the Clinton Admin.). Working conditions have fallen in those countries and the average wages in this country have stagnated and fallen.

The mantra that we were sold was B.S. and none of it has proven true. The only good to come out of the lessening of trade restrictions is that Wall Street and the top 5% have gotten a lot richer.

Now lets think about evil protectionism. America grew into a huge economic giant during the last century. That growing occurred while we had huge tariffs and other protectionist measures in place. Europe, as a whole, is a very powerful economic engine. Oh my gosh, they have way more tariffs and protectionist laws than we've had in decades.

Probably the greatest economic success story of the last 50 years is Japan. They literally used protectionist laws to structure and guide that economic success. They remain an economic powerhouse and all those laws are still in place. The most dynamic economic growth story of the last 10 years is... you guessed it, China; a country that has guided and supported that growth by utilizing protectionist laws, like protecting the yuan from the rest of the world's currencies.

Only big business thinks there is a bad protectionist agenda. I admit, they've done a good job of selling that to Congress, well of buying Congress anyway, and a great job of selling it to the American public. Hopefully, the American public will wake up and realize they're taking it in the shorts. Oh, and in case you missed it, isn't it ironic that those who are arguing that we shouldn't be protectionist aren't arguing that China shouldn't be protectionist?

BTW - back to Ron Paul, his strength is that he actually understands what is going on with China. His response may not be one I would choose, but he's at least smart enough to get it.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/06/28/health/main2992320_page2.shtml

Hmmmmm,

I have to admit, I didn't know about the pigs filled with waste water, nor the contaminated juice... oh, or the 180 closed factories cited for contaminated food.

Boy, we certainly wouldn't want to do anything to hurt the poor misunderstood Chinese industrial system... /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Despite Pat's protestations, now that you've had a chance to think about this you may be realizing that our relationship with China isn't necessarily in our best interests or for that matter in the best interests of human rights. Why in the world would we allow this kind of thing to occur?

Here's why:

http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/06222007/watch.html

Watch the entire thing. It shows just how powerful our lobbyists are and how they will get your government to work with any country out there, no matter how evil.

Remember also that our current Supreme Court is quickly overturning any controls we might have to protect us from such lobbyists.

BTW - since we are talking about Ron Paul, this is why I like Paul despite his shortcomings. He will stop this and give back government to the people. Heaven forbid that we should vote someone into office who doesn't have that "BIG BUSINESS" money.

BTW Laura,

Since you're an activist, watch this video on Unions, it's very interesting. Andy Stern is good stuff.

http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/06152007/watch2.html

if you watch Sicko are you gonna wanna ban healthcare?

good things happen in an open and honest partnership. bad things result from unilateralism. work with your partners to fix problems when they are identified. what is true for individuals is also true for global relationships. if you go all crazy you'll end up nothing more than a reactionary, pulled to and fro by whatever the winds may bring. thats weakness, not leadership.

Thanks, however, I don't consider myself an activist, just a concerned citizen. The most important thing he (Andy Stern) said is that government is only part of the solution. He seems to echo much of what I have said. Get involved, base your decisions and actions upon issues, hold those you elect accountable.
I look forward to see their endorsements in September. I am currently leaning toward Obama, but not fully made my mind up yet for the Presidential election.
BTW, I believe nationalized healthcare is definitely the way to go. I only had time for one movie last weekend in DC. I chose "10 Questions for the Dalai Lama" rather than "Sicko". I thoroughly enjoyed my choice, but wish I had time for both.
I was concerned, for a moment while on the suggested Moyers site, fearing I had missed news that Libby had been pardoned.

Libby will appeal till the end of 2008 and then Bush will grant him a pardon. He will do no time.

if you watch Sicko are you gonna wanna ban healthcare?

That's not Moore's intent, it's to Nationalize health care. Whether that is good or bad is another question.

good things happen in an open and honest partnership. bad things result from unilateralism. work with your partners to fix problems when they are identified. what is true for individuals is also true for global relationships. if you go all crazy you'll end up nothing more than a reactionary, pulled to and fro by whatever the winds may bring. thats weakness, not leadership.



Controlling our relationship with another country is not unilateralism. Going to war against the wishes of the rest of the world is unilateralism.

Your premise is correct though, China is acting unilaterally, as are the corporations in this country. I fail to see how that benefits the rest of us who want to act globally and fairly?

I may be reading you incorrectly, but what you seem to be saying is that despite the fact that we're getting hosed by the Chinese, those leaders taking tons of money from lobbyists and buckling to the pressure to ignore the problem are strong, and those who are willing to stand up to the problem are weak.

This is a little like saying Bush is a strong leader because he was willing to lead us into this stupid war.

Za Laura, don't count on Libby going free. Go back and watch the piece again. This judge will have him in jail well before the traditional Presidential pardon cycle. Yes, Bush will pardon him, but only after he has served some time. Hardly fair, but maybe he'll meet his soul mate there... :D

BTW - Go back to that site and watch the piece on how the media blew it on the start of the war. It's incredible and frightening.

Last points, the more I see the more I think we need someone like Paul.

Laura, watch the interview with Grace Lee. It will move you to a happier place. She isn't counting on politicians to make change. She understands that change comes from people. So does Paul, another reason I like him.

I'm counting on Libby doing some jail time, unless he has a heart attack like "Mr. Enron". I think it would be sweet if he meets his hole mate before he is pardoned. What I said is I was afraid I had missed the news of his pardon because I just glanced quickly up at the title of the essay piece that Moyers did.
The most important lesson in government class is "of the people, by the people, and for the people."
I'm still not convinced on voting for Paul. It will take a lot to do that. If he makes it to the general election, we'll see. There's a lot of time between now and November, 2008.

oops, typo, should have typed soul not hole.

Last points, the more I see the more I think we need someone like Paul.



That is the ground swell, lets take back the Republican Party. Lets restore our government.

oops, typo, should have typed soul not hole.



I'm still laughing. Frankly it should have been his (w)hole soul mate...

Go back to that site and watch the interview with Vic Gold. Excellent commentary on what has gone wrong with politics in this country!

You too Za, go back and watch the Vic Gold interview. He mentions the only two honest politicians Paul and a low runner from the Dems and comments on how they are viewed as crackpots by the mainstream when in fact they represent what the parties were just 30 years ago.

Last point,

Watch the Lori Wallach interview. It's very pertinent to the China issue since it's about the new trade deal that Bush's boys put through. Darned scary! The bill was done behind closed doors and hidden until now and it's provisions are frightening. It's going to move more jobs to China and mean even lower wages. Of course the stock market will soar so my 401K will do great. Wait, never mind, don't watch it... :o

BTW - pay close attention to the part were she says that these laws limit our ability to examine the products coming in from other countries if they feel they meet our standards.. [head shake on] WHAT! [head shake off] Yep, that means the toothpaste and other contaminated goods might have slipped in without ever being seen!

As a small business owner, I am not a fan of what Andy Stern says.

I can't even afford health insurance myself, much less pay for even one of my employees.

I recently (last week) had to raise my prices, not because of minimum wage, but because cheeses prices have skyrocketed. I was loosing money. Now I am loosing customers. I am doing the same sales with fewer orders. If that keeps up, I will not need as many employees.

What is going to happen when they raise minimum wage. That just might put me out of business.

And no, you can't just give me a tax break, I don't make enough money to pay income taxes.

Government is not the answer. A free market will answer the problem. (BTW, I use to cover employee insurance if they wanted it, but back then it was only $75 per month.)

As a small business owner, I am not a fan of what Andy Stern says.

I can't even afford health insurance myself, much less pay for even one of my employees.

I recently (last week) had to raise my prices, not because of minimum wage, but because cheeses prices have skyrocketed. I was loosing money. Now I am loosing customers. I am doing the same sales with fewer orders. If that keeps up, I will not need as many employees.

What is going to happen when they raise minimum wage. That just might put me out of business.

And no, you can't just give me a tax break, I don't make enough money to pay income taxes.

Government is not the answer. A free market will answer the problem. (BTW, I use to cover employee insurance if they wanted it, but back then it was only $75 per month.)



I think there are many things skewed, too many to go into here, but one thing to think about, we've gotten used to the notion that things should be cheap, cheaper than their real value is. That includes Pizza. A good pie should easily cost $20 not $10. America has a skewed perspective, somehow, we think we're owed something...

I will agree with you on that. When I first worked at a pizza place in high school, we charged $20 for a large pizza with everything on it.

Now that my prices are closing in on that again, I am getting flack from customers who say they can pay less elsewhere.

The problem I am having is that the big three have cut there product and are charging less than last year.

As a Franchisee, I can't change my product, I can only change my price. I have kept my prices lower than most Mr. Jim's by cutting costs where ever I could.

Libby will appeal till the end of 2008 and then Bush will grant him a pardon. He will do no time.



Well I guess I was a year off, only because a judge was going to make him report to jail soon.

http://www.thebostonchannel.com/politics/13611695/detail.html

Libby will appeal till the end of 2008 and then Bush will grant him a pardon. He will do no time.



Well I guess I was a year off, only because a judge was going to make him report to jail soon.

http://www.thebostonchannel.com/politics/13611695/detail.html



I hate to admit it but what Bush did was smart. A pardon was out of the question, but I'm guessing that if they let him serve he might of commented on the possibility that his marching orders came from the top. Embarrassing if nothing else.

BTW - are you paying attention to the Supreme Court? Pretty scary.

It is all quite scary. I based who I voted for president on who I thout he would appoint to the Supreme Court, what type of individual. That, in my opinion, is the most important role of the President. We are getting a very lop-sided Court. The Supreme Court works best when, like the Congress/Senate, they are near equal in Rep/Dem split.

Yea, the Supreme court has made two questionable rulings this last week that I know of.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zsLcQiHKhic&amp;eurl=

just got word from 2 sources (main stream media) that ONLY Mitt Romney and Rudy Gouliani have more money in the bank than Ron Paul. :D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:eek:

In fact, only the Even Rudy and Ron Paul had an increase in donations in the 2nd quarter, everyone else is down.

John McCain is in emergency mode, they had to lay off 50 campaign workers last week, he only has 2 million in the bank :o

50 paid campaign workers???????? Ron Paul hardly has any, however they don't even have enough room for the volunteers who show up to help.

Also, Ron Paul has been doing very well in the Straw Polls. He got second in Utah (behind Mitt the Mormon) I just read he got 2nd behind Fred Thompson in a Georgia Straw Pole, I also read he got 3rd in a California GOP straw poll.

The r3volution is coming.

It is exciting... I firmly believe that people from all walks of life can rally behind the message of liberty and individual freedom.


http://blogs.usatoday.com/onpolitics/2007/07/ron-paul-says-h.html


The internet loves Ron Paul:
http://thehill.com/campaign-2008/online-community-flocks-to-ron-paul-2007-07-06.html

Just read that Ron Paul won a Coalition for New Hampshire Taxpayers Straw Poll held today in New Hampshire. He only got 65% of the vote. Rudy came in second with 8%.

new vid from the campaign trail (June 30th in Iowa)

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Thanks for that post!

It's especially ironic that the event was sponsored by the Iowa Christian Alliance and Ron Paul's the only Republican candidate opposed to the war in Iraq.

Bombing is not a Christian value!

Another GREAT interview.
Ron Paul on with George Stephanopoulos

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Normally I don't post videos like this one, but it makes some good points and tells you in his words, what Ron Pauls stance on Global Warming is.

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again, I prefer to just post interviews, but this is a very good meetup group idea. I am going to try to get one of the DFW groups to do a video like this too.
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Ron Paul speech in Las Vegas on 7-7-7

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everyone happy now?

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070710/ap_on_re_as/china_tainted_products

wow

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The revolution is growing

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The YouTube interview.

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Questions
what do you replace Income tax with
Environment policy
Abortion views

then a few quick question
war on drugs
national id card
why do you want to be president
do you use your power for good or awesome
Who is Ron Paul <font color="red"> <-----best answer </font>

Reporter: This is a mujahideen preacher, who fights on the front line. I asked him why he is fighting here.

Preacher: The infidels went beyond their borders and attacked our country. All the world's infidels have banded together to attack our country, to affront the religion of Islam, and to violate our honor. Because they violated our honor and occupied our country, Afghanistan, it is incumbent upon every man and woman to participate in Jihad, because this is an individual duty. That is why we set out to wage Jihad.

http://www.memritv.org/# Story #1508 - "The Neo-Talibans" - Al-Jazeera TV Documentary on the Mentality and Methods of the Taliban

Same article

Reporter: We were allowed to meet some of them. Suicide bomber brigade One of them explained why he was resorting to this method.

Omar Khan, member of the Taliban suicide bombers brigade: The Koran, the hadith, and our commanders require us to make sacrifices and to carry out martyrdom operations. This is written in several places. Violence and oppression are directed against Muslims in countries in the Islamic world, such as Iraq, Palestine, Kashmir, and Afghanistan. The Muslims are humiliate every day, and therefore, we wanted to sacrifice our spirit an dour blood, in order to help our people achieve freedom.

in order to help our people achieve freedom.


i thought it was because they hated freedom?

I'm interested to know exactly what he will do about all of the people across the country that will no longer have jobs if the IRS is abolished. Tax lawyers, accountants, IRS employees, there are many jobs in America that rely upon income tax. What will he do with all of these people? Maybe someone asked this in one of these interviews (I didn't watch them all), but it does seem rather short-sighted.

When most of America swicthed to transportation by automobile I'm sure quite a few buggy whip makers lost their job as well.

Progress is a good thing. There will always be jobs availible for intelligent and skilled people.

I'm interested to know exactly what he will do about all of the people across the country that will no longer have jobs if the IRS is abolished. Tax lawyers, accountants, IRS employees, there are many jobs in America that rely upon income tax. What will he do with all of these people? Maybe someone asked this in one of these interviews (I didn't watch them all), but it does seem rather short-sighted.



That is a fair question and one I have heard him state before. But I will attempt to answer the best I can. Sound bites can't explain everything and can change a complex answer.

1st, it will take YEARS to totally abolish the IRS, RP has stated this even in the debates. So there is no need to lay anyone off right away. It can be done the same way my dads company always did it, early retire some employee's don't replace those that retire/quit.

If you are short handed in one department, move someone over so they can keep there job. A lot of companies currently do this.

We are 9 TRILLION dollars in debt right now, there is no way we can just cut the personal income tax out right now. We can thank our government for this one. (specially our current administration)

As far as Tax Lawyers and Accountants, they spend most of there time working with businesses anyways. They will still be needed. But yes, when the personal income tax is abolished, those that do personal income tax will not be hiring the temporary help. (personal income tax is easy) This would be the same if we pass the Fair Tax bill. The Fair Tax bill eliminates the same things by putting a flat tax on all income. You will have your income tax taken out of your paycheck and will not have to file at the end of the year. (RP has stated he would sign this bill)

As far as being short sighted, several of the Republican candidates favor the Fair Tax or abolishing the IRS.

Lets remember that most states charge taxes too, these are not controlled by the federal government and those tax lawyers and accountants are needed.

If and when the IRS is finally abolished, the Treasury department will have to start collecting taxes again, they will need new employees.

everyone happy now?

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070710/ap_on_re_as/china_tainted_products



Apparently the threat of such isn't enough to prevent it...

I especially love this quote, "The few corrupt officials of the SFDA are the shame of the whole system and their scandals have revealed some very serious problems,"

Let's see, a few corrupt individuals have caused some very serious problems. All on their own? Gee, maybe they had some help?

BTW - the fact that China executed their "FDA" equivalent isn't a comment on their desire to solve the problem, as much as it is a reflection of their desire to show us that they're doing something to solve the problem, IMO.

I'm interested to know exactly what he will do about all of the people across the country that will no longer have jobs if the IRS is abolished. Tax lawyers, accountants, IRS employees, there are many jobs in America that rely upon income tax. What will he do with all of these people? Maybe someone asked this in one of these interviews (I didn't watch them all), but it does seem rather short-sighted.



That is a fair question and one I have heard him state before. But I will attempt to answer the best I can. Sound bites can't explain everything and can change a complex answer.

1st, it will take YEARS to totally abolish the IRS, RP has stated this even in the debates. So there is no need to lay anyone off right away. It can be done the same way my dads company always did it, early retire some employee's don't replace those that retire/quit.

If you are short handed in one department, move someone over so they can keep there job. A lot of companies currently do this.

We are 9 TRILLION dollars in debt right now, there is no way we can just cut the personal income tax out right now. We can thank our government for this one. (specially our current administration)

As far as Tax Lawyers and Accountants, they spend most of there time working with businesses anyways. They will still be needed. But yes, when the personal income tax is abolished, those that do personal income tax will not be hiring the temporary help. (personal income tax is easy) This would be the same if we pass the Fair Tax bill. The Fair Tax bill eliminates the same things by putting a flat tax on all income. You will have your income tax taken out of your paycheck and will not have to file at the end of the year. (RP has stated he would sign this bill)

As far as being short sighted, several of the Republican candidates favor the Fair Tax or abolishing the IRS.

Lets remember that most states charge taxes too, these are not controlled by the federal government and those tax lawyers and accountants are needed.

If and when the IRS is finally abolished, the Treasury department will have to start collecting taxes again, they will need new employees.



Surely we jest, compassion for the tax guys? H and R block, the IRS... frankly I don't much care what happens to a group of people that make a living off of the requirement that I support our government and it's misuse of my money.

While I thought what Za wrote was on, I liked the buggy whip comparison better. Let's put it in a more modern perspective. What happened to all those secretaries... sorry personal assistants, when the personal computer came along?

We live in one of the most entrepreneurial societies that has ever existed. I have no doubt that all those accountants will find something to do.

I liked the buggy whip comparison better. Let's put it in a more modern perspective. What happened to all those secretaries... sorry personal assistants, when the personal computer came along?

We live in one of the most entrepreneurial societies that has ever existed. I have no doubt that all those accountants will find something to do.



Exactly. I dont like to see anyone lose their job, but it has been my experience that people who do more often then not move on to something better. Just an observation...

When most of America swicthed to transportation by automobile I'm sure quite a few buggy whip makers lost their job as well.

Progress is a good thing.


Just like we'll get to see radiator shops close their doors or switch specialities when we finally transition to electric cars :D (can you see that huge sphere halfway up the mountain that's growing and gaining speed as it rolls towards us? it's got a name - inevitability)

Regardless of the fuel you put into an automobile's ICE you're still wasting 85% of the energy from that source that's being turned into HEAT. Multiply that by millions and millions of cars driving roughly 32 miles per day * 365 days per year and that's a whole lot of wasted potential.

Pretty basic stuff: waste not want not.

Wow, now check this out.

When we contribute to a candidate, one of the questions they are required to ask is employment. Now that the FEC has published the data from the 2nd quarter, an amazing fact jumps right out in your face. ok, so you would have to dig a little, but here are the result I think you will find interesting.

The military favors Ron Paul (http://ronpauldelaware.wordpress.com/2007/07/16/military-favors-ron-paul-over-mccain/)

did you read that????

Only the USMC gave more money to John McCain

but all the other forces gave more cash to Ron Paul

in fact 46% of the money given to republican presidential candidates went to Ron Paul.

McCain was second ($5465 behind Ron Paul)

That surprise's even Ron Paul fans.

oh yea, what is more amazing about this is that John McCain raised over $11 million and Ron Paul raised only $2.4 million. So Ron Paul gets a larger part of his cash from the armed forces than Rudy McRomney.

Denny, I just watched "Who Killed the Electric Car" yesterday.

Prime example of the government messing things up.

RP at Google town meeting 7/13/07

This is a long one. I have not taken time to listen to it yet, but I hear it is a good one.

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Denny, I just watched "Who Killed the Electric Car" yesterday.

Prime example of the government messing things up.



Government/Media/Car Companies

Two things really stand out from that movie:
1) The million dollar "promotion" campaing that the car companies ran that was more of a scare campaign. They ran a campaign designed to appear as if they were attempting to launch a new technology, but in reality it was a succesfull propoganda effort to "prove" that people didn't want electric cars. Notice the efforts they went to with the revisionist history to destroy all evidence of the vehicles.

The MSM are still either complicit in the deception or too lazy to investigate the myths that they perpetuate and continue to act as if the public does not want electric vehicles and we don't have the technology to make an affordable, dependable mass-marketed vehicle, both of which are false.

. . . and 2) The super-slick bait-and-switch they pulled on the California state board that put the final nail in the coffin of Electric Car Attempt 1. They convinced the board to scrap plans that would have instituted electric cars in California for the pipe dream of Hydrogren Fuel Cells. Remember the Governator jumping on that bandwagon? Pie-in-the-sky! It's amazing how they can bash one technology based on the fact that we've got some small hurdles to jump in the very, very short run and meanwhile get everyone to sign off on a fairy tale.

http://www.dailypaul.com/files/images/ronpaul-kc.jpg

This is in KC, done by local Ron Paul supporters there and NOT the national campaign.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/livescience/20070718/sc_livescience/studyamericansdontunderstandothers

A great interview that is just a valid now as it was 19 years ago

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no flip flopping here.

That interview could have been done this week... good stuff.

interview with Kent Snyder, Ron Paul's campaign manager.

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This is 6 days before congress voted to allow Bush to invade Iraq.

Remember this is 6 days before,

pt 1 pt 2
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Ok, if you know anything about the Sean Hanity / Ron Paul mix up after the 2nd debate, listen to this.

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yes, Ron Paul got more support than ANY OTHER CANDIDATE in the 2nd quarter from the military personnel.

BTW, Mr. Coca Cabana, Barry Madilow is a Ron Paul supporter, he donated the max amount.

Example of Fox News spin.

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Notice how even though Ron Paul has more donations from the military in the last quarter than any other candidate, they say "well its only 1% off the money he raised".

We guess what, all those "front tier" candidates had more contributions, even nearly 10 times the amount Ron Paul had, yet RP had more from the military.

Now you just tell me how a supposed "2nd tier" candidate raised less money, but more from the military.

BTW, Michael Badnarik raised and spent less than Ron Paul raised in this last quarter, so I guess that "libertarian lists" didn't work for him.


FACT, the Ron Paul election committee has not sent any mailers asking for donations.

100% of the money they have raised in the last quarter came over the internet.

spin all you want Fox, RP is a front tier candidate, they just don't want you to know it.

Watch this video from Iraq and you will learn WHY Ron Paul has more support from the troops. (the guy at the end says it all)

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This is 6 days before congress voted to allow Bush to invade Iraq.

Remember this is 6 days before . . .



Thanks for keeping those coming, Za! I'm planning on registering as a Republican for the first time since 1988 to vote for Ron Paul in the primary next year.

That video just hardens my opposition to Hillary Clinton. She failed the test on the most important vote in her career and now wants to spin the blame onto Bush. Sorry Hillary, I'm not buying that B.S. Maybe you should have read the NSA report before you made your choice.

Dr. Paul makes me proud to be an american.

I keep waiting on "Ron Paul Girl" ... someone needs to make this happen.

I may still vote for Ron Paul but watch this.

http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07202007/watch.html

Paul trusts that big business will solve our problems, that they will be driven by logic to the best solution. This shows just how stupid business can be even when presented with a most illogical situation.

Paul is a good American, but he is naive about big business.

I rented this like a year ago. It is worth watching. The Yes Men (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5112560810751719515&amp;q=yes+men+movi e&amp;total=686&amp;start=0&amp;num=10&amp;so=0&amp;type=search&amp;plinde x=2)

vivolium ha :D

BTW, people like this would keep companies in check in a true Libertarian society.

vivolium ha :D

BTW, people like this would keep companies in check in a true Libertarian society.



Therein lies the problem. They don't, or at best they do retrospectively and the cost to business is less than the profit of doing wrong.

Its called apathy.

Oklahoma State won its eminent domain case... basically the district court has upheld the government's right to tell you what your property is worth ("fair market value") and ask you to leave because they would like to build a new athletic village.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ykFQy8v_iqk&amp;mode=related&amp;search=

Captain Kirk is Ron Paul

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Our bottom-up campaign�not top-down in the usual official fashion�has gotten far bigger and more successful, at a faster rate, than even I dreamed. And the sky is the limit. Don�t we owe it to our great forbears, and to our children and grandchildren and great grandchildren down through the generations, not to lose our country? We can win the fight for the ideals of the founders. We can have freedom, peace, and prosperity. We can be blessed by our fellow citizens, and by all those who come after us. Dr. Ron Paul 7/23/07

Its called apathy.

Oklahoma State won its eminent domain case... basically the district court has upheld the government's right to tell you what your property is worth ("fair market value") and ask you to leave because they would like to build a new athletic village.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ykFQy8v_iqk&amp;mode=related&amp;search=



I'm not sure that's true (that its apathy). I don't believe in grand conspiracies, but there is no question that the media puts out tons of garbage, most call it Nascar, Football, Survivor or American Idol, that American's would rather pay attention to than what our politicians and big business do. Watch that video of the Yes Men. It's awful what they are showing these business people and yet they are buying it. The business guys are in one mindset, how can we make money at this? Not is it real, is it necessary, is it going to help mankind or the world.

They had an article on NPR the other day about how the focus of people changes when you add money into the equation. Our empathy decreases, our ability to add any other information into the equation decreases, and our civility decreases. It truly is horrific.

Ron Paul is sort of Yin and Yang for me, 1/2 of his position is phenomenal, he understands what this country was meant to be, but the other half, that we should trust business and the public's ability to police business, is off base in terms of humanity.

I think the notion that the founding fathers intended business to have free reign can easily be made. I don't think they had any concept of what big business could become. Their view of politics and politicians was right on.

We do need some controls on business. The laws we have in place didn't occur out of the blue. The came about due to abuses on the part of business. Are some of them overboard and do they make the situation worse? Yes, SB Oxley is the classic case. It was stupidity beyond belief. But that doesn't mean we need to wipe the slate.

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Not a Ron Paul video, but Michael Badnarik who is 100% behind Ron Paul and who I voted for in 2004 for President.

When I started my first post about Ron Paul in January, I found out from an email from Badnarik.

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Ron Paul is sort of Yin and Yang for me, 1/2 of his position is phenomenal, he understands what this country was meant to be, but the other half, that we should trust business and the public's ability to police business, is off base in terms of humanity.

I think the notion that the founding fathers intended business to have free reign can easily be made. I don't think they had any concept of what big business could become. Their view of politics and politicians was right on.

We do need some controls on business. The laws we have in place didn't occur out of the blue. The came about due to abuses on the part of business. Are some of them overboard and do they make the situation worse? Yes, SB Oxley is the classic case. It was stupidity beyond belief. But that doesn't mean we need to wipe the slate.



I agree with that.

I do feel, though, that Ron Paul has the highest integrity of any of the big party candidates. (Bottom of the barrel, our famous duo "from" New York)

i look at it this way too, if Ron Paul does well, even if he does not get the parties nomination, it will send a message to both parties that they are getting off base.

If he wins the nomination, then he just might become the next president.

For those that are afraid of some of his platform, remember he will obey the constitution and any legislation will have to go through congress.

Not like King Bush who signs executive orders giving himself more power.

If you aren't mad now, you will be when you watch this weeks version of Bill Moyer's Journal.

It's about earmarks and it's just awful what our Congress is doing to us,

http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07272007/watch.html

yep yep yep, I like how the top requests come from Democrats

Ron Paul does forward requests that his office gets. He puts them in and then votes against them. His reasoning, the ones that get threw return some of the money the government takes back to his district. If he didn't do anything, all the money would got to other districts.

yep yep yep, I like how the top requests come from Democrats

Ron Paul does forward requests that his office gets. He puts them in and then votes against them. His reasoning, the ones that get threw return some of the money the government takes back to his district. If he didn't do anything, all the money would got to other districts.

Ah, ya didn't watch closely enough. The current biggest are from Dems, that would be because they are currently in power. The fact is that biggest growth came under GOP leadership. Furthermore, most of our fiscal responsiblity of the last 20 or so years was headed up by Dems, not the GOP.

That said, the real problem is that entitlements happen (sort of like shiet happens) there are no controls over it, and it isn't open to the public so we can see what they are doing. With some controls in place, and a lot of air, I'd be willing to bet money the problem would go away.

I have not read much about the reform bill that was passed today, but I hope it at least brings it more out in the open. At least they will have the sponsors names on them now.

agreed but we need it in an openly public forum, like the internet. Sort of brings home Pat's notion that everything we do here should be on this MB... :D

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Ok, got several to add today

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Just the important parts of the debate Sunday :D

Fox interview, this reporter has called RP a 9/11 Truther in the past

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The Tax Poem
by Anonymous

Tax his land,
Tax his bed,
Tax the table
At which he's fed.

Tax his tractor,
Tax his mule,
Teach him taxes
Are the rule.

Tax his cow,
Tax his goat,
Tax his pants,
Tax his coat.

Tax his ties,
Tax his shirt,
Tax his work,
Tax his dirt.

Tax his tobacco,
Tax his drink,
Tax him if he
Tries to think.

Tax his cigars,
Tax his beers,
If he cries, then
Tax his tears.

Tax his car,
Tax his gas,
Find other ways
To tax his [censored]

Tax all he has
Then let him know
That you won't be done
Till he has no dough.

When he screams and hollers,
Then tax him some more,
Tax him till
He's good and sore.

Then tax his coffin,
Tax his grave,
Tax the sod in
Which he's laid.

Put these words
upon his tomb,
"Taxes drove me to my doom..."

When he's gone,
Do not relax,
Its time to apply
The inheritance tax.

Accounts Receivable Tax
Building Permit Tax
CDL license Tax
Cigarette Tax
Corporate Income Tax
Dog License Tax
Excise Taxes
Federal Income Tax
Federal Unemployment Tax (FUTA)
Fishing License Tax
Food License Tax,
Fuel permit tax
Gasoline Tax (42 cents per gallon)
Gross Receipts Tax
Hunting License Tax
Inheritance Tax
Interest expense
Inventory tax
IRS Interest Charges IRS Penalties (tax on top of tax)
Liquor Tax
Luxury Taxes
Marriage License Tax
Medicare Tax
Personal Property Tax
Property Tax
Real Estate Tax
Service charge taxes
Social Security Tax
Road usage taxes
Sales Tax
Recreational Vehicle Tax
School Tax
State Income Tax
State Unemployment Tax (SUTA)
Telephone federal excise tax
Telephone federal universal service fee tax
Telephone federal, state and local surcharge taxes
Telephone minimum usage surcharge tax
Telephone recurring and non-recurring charges tax
Telephone state and local tax
Telephone usage charge tax
Utility Taxes
Vehicle License Registration Tax
Vehicle Sales Tax
Watercraft registration Tax
Well Permit Tax
Workers Compensation Tax
...And more!!!

COMMENT: Not one of these taxes existed 100 years ago, and our nation was the most prosperous in the world. We had absolutely no national debt, had the largest middle class in the world, and Mom stayed home to raise the kids

What happened?

Can you spell "politicians?!"

And I still have to "press 1" for English.
I hope this goes around THE USA at least 100 times!

Of all the current candidates for President, only Ron Paul wants to eliminate the IRS. Isn't it time for a change?

ok, this is the supporters outside of the debate.

Notice all the signs and who are holding them..........

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ok, did you notice that a MAJORITY of the Mitt Romney signs were just stuck in the ground. He only had a few being held by real people.

yet look at the pics on ABC news. BTW, that pick with the RP supporter with the rainbow was great, but it did make it look like he was a lone supporter.

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usually don't post videos like this one, but I liked the song and it is actually a pretty feel good video.

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Campaign commercial in Iowa being aired right now.

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When Romney said "What, did this guy forget 9/11?" Paul should have turned to him and said, "no, I just read the 9/11 report and listened to the CIA and realized that 9/11 had nothing to do with Iraq. I also realize that the President shouldn't think, 'since I believe something it must be true despite what the CIA and FBI tells me.' Do you disagree Mr. Romney?"

BTW - Romney defines the term disgusting politician! He's worse than the G-man.

yea, I have posted the same things, Dr. Paul really could have got in a good zinger in there.

Notice Rudy was quite on this :o Although he did pack a few punches without naming names

If you watch the debates, you will hear EVERY candidate say something that Ron Paul has been saying, and he is the fringe candidate????

yea, I have posted the same things, Dr. Paul really could have got in a good zinger in there.

Notice Rudy was quite on this :o Although he did pack a few punches without naming names

If you watch the debates, you will hear EVERY candidate say something that Ron Paul has been saying, and he is the fringe candidate????



Get over it Za, he is the fringe candidate; honesty, clear speaking, and not taking bribes from big business makes you a fringe candidate. Thank Gaya for that! Don't get me wrong, I still disagree with a lot of his positioning, but I respect him. It's been a long time since I could say I respected a politician.

No one that should be elected ever gets to run for Congress, let alone President.

Paul is probably about the only one.

The local Party HQ's usually eliminate candidates who believe in honesty and doing good for the public.

No one that should be elected ever gets to run for Congress, let alone President.

Paul is probably about the only one.

The local Party HQ's usually eliminate candidates who believe in honesty and doing good for the public.



Tony, I do believe you're serious. Unfortunately, I also think you're right. :mad:

This is just a music video, but might be one of the best candidate songs yet.

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Full page add in the local Ames Iowa newspaper today, designed and paid for by spammers:D

http://www.dailypaul.com/files/images/ames-ad.jpg

This really says it all.

wow, this dude is from Singapore and the beginning of the video says it all.
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off c-span today from Iowa, where Ron Paul got 9.1 percent of the straw poll finishing 5th place out of the 11 running.

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11th--John Cox 41 votes

10th--John McCain 101 votes

9th Duncan Hunter 174 votes

8th Rudy Giuliani 183 votes

7th Fred Thompson 203 votes

6th Tommy Thompson 1039 votes

5th Ron Paul 1305 votes

4th Tom Tancredo 1961 votes

3rd Sam Brownback 2192 votes

2nd Mike Huckabee 2587 votes

1st Mitt Romney 4516 votes

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The government steals from our hard earned money...and what do they show for it? ohhh just a $700 trillion debt... no big deal!! Chute... when will the US wake up and realize we are in big trouble. We don't even act like their a war going on. If all the countries that we owed money to came and asked for it back we would be bankrupt...and in negative numbers. We can't even produce 50% of our own goods here anymore. WAKE UP!!! I'm not saying you have to vote for Ron Paul even...but don't let yourself get brainwashed.

well said, but Ron Paul is the only Republican telling the truth. Shoot, a majority of the Democrats are not even telling us this.

BTW. our debt is nearly 9 trillion, it would take the income tax YEARS to pay that off (only 1/3rd of the federal income comes from income taxes)

THE NATIONAL DEBT IS A TAX ON OUR KIDS.

Ha, yea maybe your kids, i'm only 21. Thats the issue...becuase its happening NOW, and nobody is doing a thing to lower the debt. spend, spend, spend. sure, its giving us nice parks, and schools; but where's the rest or the money? Maybe in the military, but we are still asking for another depression...this time it will be worse though. What happens when people discover we love little pieces of paper with numbers on it? We shouldn't be afraid of the government...The government should be afraid of the people. But we as Americans have been letting this go on like we are ok with it. Ron Paul knows these things, and that we need a president that can follow through. President Ron Paul!!

What are some other ways we can help support him besides donations? And besides word of mouth?

join your local Meetup group and help locally

www.ronpaul.meetup.com/ (http://www.ronpaul.meetup.com/)

Shoot, I am a member of 5 meetup groups in my area, I even help one by being the asst organizer.

Today (in about an hour) I will be driving down to the Nokia Theater in Grand Prairie to welcome everyone driving into the Sean Hannity Freedom Concert tonight. We should have at least 20 people out there in 100+ temperature.

I have 2 5gal water coolers, cups and about 20 signs, hand painted and yard signs, along with 'slim jim's" and bumper stickers to pass out. (a slim jim is a 1/3rd page 4 color handout with basic info on Ron Paul)

What a day, this was fun, I can't wait till the next one.

http://members.aol.com/bjames1033/seanhannitysignwave.jpg

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ok, we got lot of thumbs up and of course thumbs down. It was funny how sometimes you would get husband giving one and the wife giving the other :o

Not minuet went by that someone did not honk and give us the thumbs up sign.

We also got a few people telling us we were #1 But a lot fewer than I thought.

I heard 3 different "Mitt Romneys", but then he was there making a speach :D

We got ZERO
John McCain
Fred Thompson
Rudy Ghooliani
or any other lesser known candidate.

We got a lot of smiles and a few looks of discusts. Most people were very friendly, as were the police who talked to us and said there were some NON Ron Paul fans saying we were distrupting traffic, a very nice Grand Prairie police officer even came and talked with us to make sure we knew what not to do and what we could do. We were parked in a field behind our group photo and were told by the GP police that they were not going to ask us to move the cars unless the owner of the property complained about it.

No problems, we had a TON of fun.

Since this is the political thread closest to the top, take a look at this Cheney interview from 1994 where he tells us exactly why we should not go into Iraq! How appalling.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YENbElb5-xY&amp;eurl=

Which one are you, let me guess, long hair with a beard... :D

Not quite sure how I got there, but I am the one in the middle back with the cup (and belly) with my son (who grabbed his own sign to hold)

My hair is almost always tied back so you can't see it in this pic

http://ronpaul.meetup.com/226/photos/?photoAlbumId=201151&amp;photoId=1906971

last pic is a good one of me, well sort of.
this should be a pic of me in the middle

Wow, watch this piece of history and who does it sound like now.

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Other candidate try to compare themselves to Reagan, ONLY Ron Paul can claim support.

local news cast last night (DFW area)

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Very cool, I have never seen a journalist quote so well and do his research. He did not know anything about Ron Paul before he stopped to see what we were doing last Tuesday.

http://www.lonestaricon.com/absolutenm/anmviewer.asp?a=1762&amp;z=167


my pic
http://www.lonestaricon.com/absolutenm/articlefiles/1762-aP1010019%20-%20Bryan%20James.JPG

My truck is the 3rd one with the Mr. Jim's sign

http://www.lonestaricon.com/absolutenm/articlefiles/1762-aP1010033%20-%20Parking%20Lot%20Cover.jpg
Thanks to Alex Jones, most of the 9/11 Truth movement supports Ron Paul, however Ron Paul does not think 9/11 was an inside job

interesting piece from 2004, I can't vouch for the report, but it shows Bushes speech about a Humble Foreign policy and no Nation Building, but according to this report, as soon as Bush took office, they were already talking about Iraq.

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Listen to how quick they are to dismiss the young Republican answer. Then listen to the brainwashed Michael Moore chick, she didn't even answer the question they asked.

BTW, from what I have heard, you don't have to drive far to see a Ron Paul bumper sticker or sign in Austin.

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Ron Paul is popular across the world.

Brazilian living in Austria.

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15 meetups from OTHER countries.

Freedom is popular.

America can be popular again.

America, home of the Free

well, now I guess that is

America, home of the fee

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C-span yesterday.

on the campaign trail with Ron Paul.

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Wow, this one got to me.

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Strippers for Ron Paul :D
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Man, i love Tucker, he gets it.

on that note, I got to talk with someone on the inside. Look for Ron Paul to make a big splash this year in the Republican Party. This movement is MUCH bigger than anyone thinks.

Liberty
Freedom
Ron Paul
2008

Texas Straw poll was this weekend.

here are a few off the videos that have been uploaded so far.

yes I am in most of these

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1st off, the event was suppose to be business casual, but there were people inside with t-shirts. You were suppose to have you pass before 10am, the would only let you in if you already had them.

There were several people turned away, including RP fans (and voting eligible delegates. Not enough to outdo the Fred Heads though

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Yet another video of the parade. yep, if you watch, you might see me at least 2 times.

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yes I was there, what a moving speech to witness.

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BTW, you can see me just before 5min on the 2nd video, then you can just make our my yell "vote for FREEDOM, vote for LIBERTY"

well 217 did vote for Freedom and Liberty, just over 1000 voted to take away your freedom and liberty. (ie, continue the war in Iraq and probably attack Iran and whomever they feel like)

okay, I watched all the videos just to see if I could find you. Couldn't find ya'. I work downtown FW and did see the Ron Paul people, a Ron Paul moped, and the big banner hanging on I-30 Friday. Looks like there is quite a following. Best of luck to you and your candidate. I applaud what you are doing. Doesn't it feel great to be so involved? If a Republican wins, I hope it is Ron Paul.

The only way a Republican is going to win is if it is Ron Paul.

debate tonight on Fox.

Ron is throwing some haymakers at Huckabee...

The FW Star Telegram mentioned that there seemed to be more Ron Paul followers outside the Straw Poll than there were total people inside.

There were, in the speech room, we took up about 1/3rd of the room. unfortunately most were like me and only guests and not voting delegates. Trust me, we made our presents known.

We also had more people there than the peace activists that showed up Saturday. A few of us went over there and went to them with this angle. "you know who Ron Paul is? He is the only Republican candidate not for the war. If you want to hedge your bet and have a choice of two peace candidates next year, vote for Ron Paul in the March primary."

Several said they just might do that. Most didn't care which Democrat won, they just wanted peace.

Ron is throwing some haymakers at Huckabee...



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This is missing the very first part where Huckabee asked the question to Dr. Paul

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Ron Paul stands his ground and buries Sean Hannity.

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Ron Paul

"you should be nice to your guests"
"That IS the issue"
"Do you have proof of that, there is no proof of that"
"You are wrong, our CIA hasn't found any..."
"You have your history all screwed up"
"Do you like the IRS" Sean "no not really" i think it really hurt Sean to agree with Dr. Paul on something.
"They (the CIA) do a lot of mischief"
"they (the Republican Party) have only been wrong sense 2000"
"I am running on Bushes (2000) foreign policy"
"He (Reagan) never invaded a Soviet country"
Homes, cuts Hannity by pointing out Reagan's pullout of Lebanon which Dr. Paul has stated several times in the debates. Hannity dismisses it because he just got put in his place.
"the Soviets wanted to annihilate them too, but we didn't invade them"

BTW, during the debate, who kept laughing everytime they asked a question to Dr. Paul. Watch the video!!! That might be Fox trying to discredit RP, who won there text message poll with 33% of the vote last night.

busted

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if we don't learn from history, we are doomed to repeat it.

First they ignore you,
then they laugh at you,
then they fight you,
then you win.

Mohandas Gandhi


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Even if you are a minority of one, the truth is the truth.

Mohandas Gandhi

man I love this guy, this is a free speech at USC on 9/12/07

Dr. Pauls speech starts in the 2nd video, the 1st is the parade in, the National Anthem and a very good introduction.

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USC speech made the news.

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btw, note a few things, the police estimated the crowed at 700-800 people, yet again, fox lowered the numbers as they do every time. They try to marginalize him pointing out he was interviewed in someones dorm room. Actually, several candidates have been interviewed by the emergencycheese guy, Ron Paul was first. Then there is the crack at the end by how many votes is he going to actually get. What they don't mention is that only about 7 percent of the voters actually vote in the primaries. A majority of the Ron Paul voters have not ever voted in the primaries before and are going to for the first time.

The only candidate right now I am scared of is Fred Thompson, he is talking like Ron Paul, but he is two faced, check his voting records.

Last Saturday there was a big Ron Paul rally in Salt Lake. The Thai place we chose to eat was next to the Ron Paul function. We got done eating at the same time as the Ron Paul function was getting over. It was a zoo. It took us an hour and a half just to get out of the parking complex and we missed the entire first half of the Utah-UCLA game. Ron Paul is taking a lot of the Mitt vote in Utah. That is huge considering that most people here think Mitt can walk on water.

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two miss facts

1st on the last gallop poll, RP is at 4% and Mitt for Brains is at 7%

2nd is on Sportsbook.com, Ron Paul is an 8-1 shot, same as Mitt for Brains.
local CBS
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local Fox 13
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local NBC

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Two home made videos from Salt Lake City

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last week the Ron Paul campaign targeted 1776 donations, they got over 2000

This new goal started Monday at 1pm CST, in less than 2 1/2 days the total broke 400K and as you can see is still growing.

A lot of us Ron Paul Junkies hope we can break the MILLION mark before Sunday.

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well today the goal was met to the campaign raised the Bar.

BTW, some of the other campaigns are doing this, they stated BEFORE RP did and have the same goal.

2nd tier my [censored], Ron Paul is a contender.

Not one of Ron Paul's better performances, but here is the PBS debate.

This was the fairest debate yet, they let everyone answer every question, well except the last question, RP was the only candidate that was not allowed to answer it. They ran out of time.

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Hey Za,

Here is the problem I have with Ron Paul. Watch this interview with John Bogle. This guy is one of the top business guys of all time, he is basically Vanguard. The piece is about private equity and how they buy companies, screw the workers or purchasers of services, and then hide their actions. The piece puts the lie to the idea that business, under the free market system, will take care of us. Paul is smart, but in this he is wrong.

http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/09282007/watch.html

You know, a lot of what he said is what Ron Paul has been saying.

But Ron Paul has blamed the government for a lot of these problems. Big corporations and bankers push though friendly regulations that help them make money believe it or not.

Bogal talked about the financial bankers are basically behind this and profiting. That is the reason RP want to break up the FED.

At our current rate, the giant financial bankers are going to rule the world. Remember the Council of Foreign Relations was started by bankers and run by bankers and the biggest corporation in the world.

Ron Paul, as a member of the Committee on Foreign Affairs, he knows what the CFR is pushing and has called them out on it.

He has also been on the Committee on Financial Services and the Joint Economic Committee. I would argue he knows more about the government involvement than most.

Did you know that Clean Up Washington listed Paul as taking the seventh-lowest amount of PAC money of all House members, as well as accepting one of the lowest amounts of lobbyist money and taking the fourth-highest percentage of contributions from small donors. He can not be purchased and they know it.

You can see me interviewed at 5;15

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did you see the high school kids at the end, they were clueless

David Letterman endorses Ron Paul.

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ok so that was 19 years ago, he may still give him the nod.

BTW, I was on the radio again this morning. 570am got to plug Ron Paul again.

Paul Campaign Raises Over $5,000,000 In Third Quarter

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

ARLINGTON, VIRGINIA - The Ron Paul 2008 presidential campaign raised $5,080,000 during the third quarter of 2007. That is an impressive 114 percent increase from the second quarter.

Cash on hand for the Paul campaign is $5,300,000.

"Dr. Paul's message is freedom, peace and prosperity," said Paul campaign chairman Kent Snyder. "As these fundraising numbers show, more Americans each day are embracing Dr. Paul's message."

Ron Paul's 114 percent increase is in stark contrast to the decrease suffered by Mitt Romney, Rudy Giuliani, and John McCain. Romney's fundraising was down 29 percent. Giuliani was down 40 percent. McCain was down 55 percent.

how much is that in Large Pizza with Anchovies and Pineapple? :)

unfortunatly with 20K in past due bills, I was unable to send in any money to the campaign. But I did put in at least 100plus hours in grassroots campaigning.

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Time for NBC to eat some Crow, this was reported yesterday.

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MSNBC

Boy this one gets under my skin

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This really shows what the Ron Paul campaign is up against. She also shows her ignorance

2 times she called him an Isolationist - is a foreign policy which combines a non-interventionist military policy and a political policy of economic nationalism (protectionism). Ron Paul is for FREE TRADE, that is NOT protectionism.

However he is a NON-interventionist just like our Founding Fathers of our country wanted.

GADFLY (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gadfly_%28social%29) - oh that really got under my skin.

''Many people don't put him in the front runner category'' - only the MSM lady, the other candidates know it and have been using his talking points more and more. They even declined the last few debates because they look bad against Ron Paul.

Libertarian message - dude, it is a traditional Republican message. The Libertarian party came out of the Republican Party getting away from there roots.

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CNN

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MSNBC Morning Joe

it is the 3rd item

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''TALKING LIKE A REPUBLICAN''

''RON PAUL SOUNDS MORE LIKE RONALD REAGAN THAN ANYBODY ELSE''

amazing what 5 million dollars in the bank gets you

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Kinky tells it like it is. Man I wish we had him as our governor instead of the criminal Perry.
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(if I can find the full interview, I will post it)

The Young Turks (AirAmerica Radio)

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"THAT'S F#$%ED UP"

Good Morning America 10/6/07

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The interviewer laughs when Ron Paul says we only have to cut spending to the 2000 level to get rid of the IRS.

why did he laugh, because he could not believe it would be so easy, or because he, like most Americans, don't understand where our money for the Federal Government comes from.

I had not seen this exchange, this was several months ago and is great, they put that little neocon punk in his place.

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This is from 1988 in RP's Libertarian run for President. One thing the guy says at the first that is off base is that Ron Paul left congress after 3 terms and ran for the Senate as a Republican. He lost to Phil Gram. He then retired from Politics till the Libertarian party asked him to run as there candidate.

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Notice how little Ron Paul's talking points have changed over the years. The only difference is that a lot of what he warned about has now come true.

If you listen closely and know anything about RP, you can find a flip flop.

See if you can find it.

Local news coverage of Ron Paul's rally in Fred Thompson country.

BTW, they had room for 1500 and were turning people away......

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Ron Paul got schooled by Guliani at the debate tonight. :(

Ron Paul got schooled by Guliani at the debate tonight. :(



Is that true (I haven't watched it yet)? It might be that the G-man looked more polished but I find it hard to believe that anyone could really beat Paul on facts. I did hear him jump Mitt on who decides that we should go to war. Again, they might slam him for being impassioned (and only the media thinks that is a sin), but he's correct. Frankly Mitt's reply that he'd ask his lawyers was appalling.

I have not watched the full debate and have not heard that or McCain's attack either.

But this add is about to be put out by Americans Against Escalation in Iraq (http://www.noiraqescalation.org/)

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Ron Paul got schooled by Guliani at the debate tonight. :(

I did not see much mention of Ron Paul's performance at nationalreviewonline. They thought the Big 3, Giulianni, Thompson and Romney did fine. If there were fireworks between any of them and Ron Paul, they'd have been all over that.

Wait, Jim Geraghty amended his post to add a bit about Ron Paul:

UPDATE: I forgot Ron Paul. That's for two reasons. First, with so many candidates on stage, the fourth or fifth guy in that lower tier is easy to forget. Second, the Vast Conspiracy To Keep Down Ron Paul told me to leave him out.

I had wondered if he would make a bigger splash, or seem higher-profile, as he's now rolling in dough. Eh, not so much. It's nice to hear a guy come out and say he doesn't like any subsidies for anybody, but in the end, Ron Paul is playing on a different field, and competing for different voters than everybody else.

As I just noted in conversation with one of the strategists for one of the candidates, actual debates are rare at both parties' debates. Among Republicans, Romney thinks Giuliani should bleed over the line item veto, Hunter's tougher on Communist China, and Paul wants federal government to be trimmed to about four employees. Beyond that, the policy differences are pretty small.

I actually like Ron Paul's message but it may appeal to me only because I have the same quixotic tendencies as the candidate.

Ron Paul got schooled by Guliani at the debate tonight. :(



Is that true (I haven't watched it yet)? It might be that the G-man looked more polished but I find it hard to believe that anyone could really beat Paul on facts. I did hear him jump Mitt on who decides that we should go to war. Again, they might slam him for being impassioned (and only the media thinks that is a sin), but he's correct. Frankly Mitt's reply that he'd ask his lawyers was appalling.



He burned him pretty hard when Paul was blasting the War and made a statement that that there has never been a legitimate threat of a terrorist attack.

Giuliani responded; I wonder where he was on 9/11...the crowd went wild.


It sucked because I just told my wife: check out this Ron Paul guy, that's who I want to vote for. :confused:

9/11 and Pearl Harbor were not Imminent attacks, unless you knew about them before hand.


1. likely to occur at any moment; impending: Her death is imminent.



So what Rudy admitted was that he knew about 9/11 or he didn't understand the meaning behind imminent attacks.

What Ron Paul is saying is that Iran is not an Imminent threat, they have no way of harming us. They are years from even being able to harm us and what purpose would it serve.

On the other hand, if we do bomb or attack them, which IS an imminent threat right now from us to Iran, they will have all the reasons in the world to retaliate in any way shape or form they can.

That is what the neocons can't get though there heads.

one last thing about Rudy, his only position is 9/11, he will bring it up when ever he can. Also, he also knows that a majority of the public will believe the crap coming out of his mouth.

no one to more RP video's.

OK, this is Glenn Beck, as someone who listens to and like Glenn Beck, it surprises me he talks bad about Ron Paul. This is actually a tame piece from him.

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BTW, remember Glenn Beck thinks RP a loon, he has been saying this more months.

MSNBC The Abrams Report 10-10-07
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Tucker Carlson 10-10-2007

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this was at the TX/OU game, I was suppose to be there but had to work at the store instead.

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btw, he interviews Ron Paul's youngest son. He is a great guy from Benbrook TX. Not only is he a family doctor, but he is also a team doctor for a local football team.

I was out with him last night at the Ft Worth Zoo as we welcomed Fred Thompson to his fund raiser. It was funny, we had 25 people out front, and he had around 25 cars that pulled in to go. It was so slow one of the caterers came out and talked to us and got some information from us. He said several of the guys working the gig were Ron Paul fans. He took some RP stickers for them to wear inside

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Finally, some regular MSM coverage and what is at the bottom of the screen, 1percent of the polls. So far I have heard 2 reports that the Gallop poll does not even mention his name.

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Morning Joe Scarborough served with Ron Paul in Congress and has admitted he agreed with him on many issues in an interview of RP a while back. Not quite sure why he seems to distance himself like Tucker has done. MSNBC has been very Ron Paul friendly over the summer.

BTW, the campaign has already raised 1 million this quarter on track to beat the 3rd quarter. Not quite on track for there goal, but still an increase.

The day to watch will be November 5th.

I will post a video

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great song in this one
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great interview on Fox Business yesterday

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the Revolution is growing.
Not an all out bad piece, has some things wrong in it but that seems to be the par for Main Stream Media.

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abolish SS - says the money is going to run out. To phase it out, will let young people opt out now and will use the money saved from pulling troups out of the 130 countries we have them in. As he says, you can't just kick people out on the street, some have come to depend on the welfare state.
abolish the IRS - again, not overnight, you have to phase out the welfare state and run balanced budgets first. All we have to do to cut the IRS is go back to the year 2000 spending. Then we would not even need the IRS or Income tax.

right now, the money we pay in on our income tax barely covers the interest on the 10 trillion dollar national debt.

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You mean your poll isn't any good.....

great quote.


Funny, they didn't hit him hard as they have in the past, but I noticed that they grilled him over his support of the eventual nominee. They didn't ask anyone else that question...

Tom Tancredo answered the same way as Ron did in the last debate. His big issue is Immigration, he basically said he would not support Rudy or Mitt for president.

nothing special.

Looks like the the anti-Paul crowd is starting to voice there opinions. Listen to when RP says it is time to pull out of Iraq and that we need too get out of the middle east. A lot of the crowd boos. I guess a lot of the 30 percent of people who are still for the war in Iraq were in Orlando last night.

RP was also booed when he talked about that it was none of our business what Turkey does with the terrorist coming out of norther Iraq. Basically RP would not stop them from taking care of there business.

Please note the questions they asked RP tonight. They, FOX, were really trying to make it look like RP is not a Republican. Listen to the introduction, the questions and most of all notice what they list his careers as. They listed all the other candidates jobs outside of government, they list RP as former Libertarian candidate.
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dang, I hate this new board, "The form you have submitted is no longer valid."

Now I have to rewrite the whole thing :mad:

I always highlight text Ctrl C before I hit the post button.

Ron Paul picks up a pretty good endorsement from someone that most will not know.

Jim Rogers (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Rogers)

Financial Times interview (http://www.ft.com/cms/893ac9c8-757e-11dc-b7cb-0000779fd2ac.html)

The endorsement is around the 4 min mark.

some quick answers at a press briefing. Great answers. How many candidates for president would answer questions DIRECTLY like this.

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Well last night was the Tonight Show appearance

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The 1st guest was Tom Cruise. Before the show, Tom come in the green room and talked to Ron Paul for a while. One thing Tom said was thanking Ron Paul for some of his stances on medical issues.

Notice Jay Leno notes he got interested in Dr. Paul due to the war issue.

Also after the taping of the show, someone handed Jay a Ron Paul bumper sticker, he held it up to the crowed and put it in his jacket pocket, patting it as to say ''I got this one''

Jay also had Ron Paul sign the Foreign Policy book he showed.

More on the other guest in my next post.

The musical guest last night was the Sex Pistols.

Ron Paul & The Sex Pistols on Jay Leno (http://myspacetv.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoid=21152891)
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before the show, Johnny Rotten [John Lyndon] came in the green room and called Ron Paul ''President Paul''

Then if you watch the video, he does a shout out and punk salute to Dr. Paul in the first guitar solo.

Then in another break, he says ''so when you going to get us out of Iraq''

And as you can see, Ron shakes his hand at the end of the show. Johnny Rotten said it was great meeting him.

BTW, Johnny Rotten visited the 2000 Libertarian convention and is considered Libertarian.

ALSO, last night was a Democratic Debate, here are a few things from that DEMOCRATIC DEBATE.

http://www.lewrockwell.com/blog/lewrw/archives/matthewsRPR.jpg